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Heartburn
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PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2019 9:20 am    Post subject:

ChefLinda wrote:
Aussiesuede wrote:
governator wrote:
Why is Biden leading? I know we all would back up whoever comes out of the field but why Biden, how is it not the new faces


For many, the stakes are simply too high to be taking chances on unknowns and new faces are unknowns.

Imagine a huge wildfire sprung up on the West coast and was moving eastward swallowing up everything in it's path, and the only thing that will stop it is a large body of water like the Mississippi River. So you've got to make the drive to try to get to the other side of the Mississippi River so as not to be engulfed by the raging inferno. You take a look at a map of the US and see all that wide open space in the middle.

Do you hop in the brand spanking new 2019 Tesla Model S and just hope there will be enough places to charge along the way? Or do you jump in the 1999 Toyota Camry that while not nearly as new and comfortable, you can confidently expect to make it to the other side of the Mississippi river and stay ahead of that wild fire?

Trump is a raging fire that many aren't willing to take the risk that a Tesla can make the cross country roadtrip in time, so they are opting for that old reliable gas propelled Camry because a comfy new Tesla does em no good if it can't make it across the finish line ahead of the fire...


Al Gore and John Kerry said hello.


That's not playing to win. That's playing not to lose.

Dems are their own worst enemy. It's time for new thinking and instead we're fine to go back to the old reliable nincumpoops that don't advance the progressive agenda that most of the country wants.

To borrow a golf term, they're laying up.
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PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2019 9:23 am    Post subject:

Playing not to lose is also playing to win

win or go red again
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PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2019 9:33 am    Post subject:

Huey Lewis & The News wrote:
Playing not to lose is also playing to win

win or go red again


Disagree wholeheartedly. If you run on the issues, you can connect to many more people. Strip down the tribal allegiances and talk to the issues that people really care about.

Remind people that they're losing their jobs and their healthcare.
Remind them that despite a strong economy, they're not any better off than they were 4 years ago.
Remind them that corruption has no place in this society.
Remind them that we have given up our position in the world as leaders.

Biden's support is based on his packaging, not his stance on issues. People trust him because they think they know what he stands for but not because he has elucidated any real agenda.

I'll vote for him if that's what it comes down to because Trump is that terrible. He's an existential threat. But I think it's a huge missed opportunity. It's time for the old guard of Pelosi, Schumer, Biden, et. al. to go out to pasture.
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PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2019 9:34 am    Post subject:

The last 30 years of history tells us that when Democrats select someone who inspires them, they win. When they pick someone plain vanilla because they think he's electable, they lose. (Somewhere in between: Hillary inspired most women, but not most men. Won the popular vote, lost the electoral college.)

But it's different this time because it's Trump?

Or is it doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result?
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PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2019 9:35 am    Post subject:

Heartburn wrote:
Huey Lewis & The News wrote:
Playing not to lose is also playing to win

win or go red again


Disagree wholeheartedly. If you run on the issues, you can connect to many more people. Strip down the tribal allegiances and talk to the issues that people really care about.

Remind people that they're losing their jobs and their healthcare.
Remind them that despite a strong economy, they're not any better off than they were 4 years ago.
Remind them that corruption has no place in this society.
Remind them that we have given up our position in the world as leaders.

Biden's support is based on his packaging, not his stance on issues. People trust him because they think they know what he stands for but not because he has elucidated any real agenda.

I'll vote for him if that's what it comes down to because Trump is that terrible. He's an existential threat. But I think it's a huge missed opportunity. It's time for the old guard of Pelosi, Schumer, Biden, et. al. to go out to pasture.


This kind of idealism is great but you still have to play the election game.
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PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2019 9:39 am    Post subject:

Huey Lewis & The News wrote:
Heartburn wrote:
Huey Lewis & The News wrote:
Playing not to lose is also playing to win

win or go red again


Disagree wholeheartedly. If you run on the issues, you can connect to many more people. Strip down the tribal allegiances and talk to the issues that people really care about.

Remind people that they're losing their jobs and their healthcare.
Remind them that despite a strong economy, they're not any better off than they were 4 years ago.
Remind them that corruption has no place in this society.
Remind them that we have given up our position in the world as leaders.

Biden's support is based on his packaging, not his stance on issues. People trust him because they think they know what he stands for but not because he has elucidated any real agenda.

I'll vote for him if that's what it comes down to because Trump is that terrible. He's an existential threat. But I think it's a huge missed opportunity. It's time for the old guard of Pelosi, Schumer, Biden, et. al. to go out to pasture.


This kind of idealism is great but you still have to play the election game.


Hillary played the election game
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PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2019 9:40 am    Post subject:

Before Joe Biden was Barrack's bff, he was an also-ran in every Democratic primary, never rising to the final bracket. There must have been some reason for that, right? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Let's just watch them all in the debates and agree to re-evaluate. I'm willing to re-evaluate when I see them all perform in the fire of the campaign. Right now he's ahead on name recognition and some notion that he's the only safe white male who can beat Trump.
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PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2019 9:45 am    Post subject:

Huey Lewis & The News wrote:
Heartburn wrote:
Huey Lewis & The News wrote:
Playing not to lose is also playing to win

win or go red again


Disagree wholeheartedly. If you run on the issues, you can connect to many more people. Strip down the tribal allegiances and talk to the issues that people really care about.

Remind people that they're losing their jobs and their healthcare.
Remind them that despite a strong economy, they're not any better off than they were 4 years ago.
Remind them that corruption has no place in this society.
Remind them that we have given up our position in the world as leaders.

Biden's support is based on his packaging, not his stance on issues. People trust him because they think they know what he stands for but not because he has elucidated any real agenda.

I'll vote for him if that's what it comes down to because Trump is that terrible. He's an existential threat. But I think it's a huge missed opportunity. It's time for the old guard of Pelosi, Schumer, Biden, et. al. to go out to pasture.


This kind of idealism is great but you still have to play the election game.


It's not idealism. People want to believe.

There's 40% of the country that will go down with the ship if Trump asks them to, but there's another critical group there that needs healthcare. They need their social security. They need their education. They need a government that helps them. The democratic agenda can address all these topics with a real plan. I don't think it's idealistic to think those people would put down their other biases in favor of policies that directly affect their lives. They know the GOP does not give a crap about them. The last three years are proof and that needs to be hammered home.

Does Biden move the needle enough? Will he come through for them? Or will it be more of the same such that they're ready to vote for the next Trump (an effective one with more than half a brain) who is right around the corner ready to really destroy the country? This is not just about one election. It's about positioning the party and the country going forward.

Stop playing checkers!
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PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2019 9:49 am    Post subject:

Also, the party needs to do a much better job of informing the electorate that the Senate and House elections matter as much as anything else. We're here because people like McConnell, Graham, McCain, Gym Jordan and the other nihilists are playing for themselves. That cartel needs to be broken up.
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PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2019 11:03 am    Post subject:

Heartburn wrote:
Also, the party needs to do a much better job of informing the electorate that the Senate and House elections matter as much as anything else. We're here because people like McConnell, Graham, McCain, Gym Jordan and the other nihilists are playing for themselves. That cartel needs to be broken up.


I wish some of the 25 presidential candidates who have no shot at winning the nomination would run for the Senate in their state instead. We need to take back the Senate with strong candidates. If we strategized as a party instead of as individuals, that would be the smarter long-term play.
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PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2019 11:10 am    Post subject:

Heartburn wrote:
Also, the party needs to do a much better job of informing the electorate that the Senate and House elections matter as much as anything else. We're here because people like McConnell, Graham, McCain, Gym Jordan and the other nihilists are playing for themselves. That cartel needs to be broken up.


And another thing: The party needs to let young people know about the importance of the Supreme Court. My daughter (25) has a better than average knowledge of politics, but didn't get this point - who needs Civics, eh - until now. She says she wished there had been a greater focus on this during the 2016 election.

The Party of lies, hypocrisy, and hate gets this only too well.
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PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2019 11:29 am    Post subject:

ChefLinda wrote:
Heartburn wrote:
Also, the party needs to do a much better job of informing the electorate that the Senate and House elections matter as much as anything else. We're here because people like McConnell, Graham, McCain, Gym Jordan and the other nihilists are playing for themselves. That cartel needs to be broken up.


I wish some of the 25 presidential candidates who have no shot at winning the nomination would run for the Senate in their state instead. We need to take back the Senate with strong candidates. If we strategized as a party instead of as individuals, that would be the smarter long-term play.


I hope when they drop out they refund every cent leftover and are all good people not just gaming the system for some free cash


I know nothing about Deblasio but bet he wants to assualt the (bleep) out of Trump and must have a clean enough history......??? to take on the Orange Volcano?
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PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2019 12:00 pm    Post subject:

ChefLinda wrote:
Heartburn wrote:
Also, the party needs to do a much better job of informing the electorate that the Senate and House elections matter as much as anything else. We're here because people like McConnell, Graham, McCain, Gym Jordan and the other nihilists are playing for themselves. That cartel needs to be broken up.


I wish some of the 25 presidential candidates who have no shot at winning the nomination would run for the Senate in their state instead. We need to take back the Senate with strong candidates. If we strategized as a party instead of as individuals, that would be the smarter long-term play.


There's really only a few from states that are in play (Ryan (OH), the 2 Texans and the 2 Colorado guys). Everyone else is from pretty Dem controlled states, no?
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PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2019 12:09 pm    Post subject:

vanexelent wrote:
There's really only a few from states that are in play (Ryan (OH), the 2 Texans and the 2 Colorado guys). Everyone else is from pretty Dem controlled states, no?


They could change their residence. Biden is a proud Pennsylvanian. But represented Delaware as a Senator for decades.
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PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2019 12:18 pm    Post subject:

FYI, Biden is as responsible as anyone for why we have Obamacare and Marriage Equality. He also had a profound effect on Obama's foreign policy (moderating it) and is respected in that arena. The last thing we need is a fire breathing Unitary Executive promising radical change right now. We need a solid respectable world leader who will sign Democratic legislation and appoint good judges. If enough Democrats are elected to congress who are progressive enough to pass progressive legislation, Joe will sign it. But we may not only lose the presidency and the Senate running hard left nationally, we might lose a bunch of those house districts. Win, fix the basics, and begin with things like a public option.
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PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2019 12:27 pm    Post subject:

Politico: Dems plead with Steve Bullock to abandon White House bid for Senate in Montana: Like Beto O’Rourke, John Hickenlooper and Stacey Abrams, the Montana governor is rebuffing pressure to redraw the Senate map

Quote:
Bullock has been unequivocal in shrugging off the Senate recruitment, which has included conversations with Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer (D-N.Y.) and other Democratic senators. He doesn’t want to be one senator of 100, people who know him say, and fashions himself an executive, not a legislator.


Quote:
Some Democrats felt bruised after Stacey Abrams in Georgia, John Hickenlooper in Colorado and O’Rourke in Texas passed on competitive Senate races. But they’ve recruited a talented candidate in Texas in veteran MJ Hegar, have a crowded field of viable candidates in Colorado and see other strong Democrats considering a run in Georgia.

They find Bullock’s presidential run far more confounding.

“He’d be a great Senate candidate,” said Sen. Debbie Stabenow (D-Mich.). “He’s terrific. And there’s such a huge field right now. So it’s hard to sort of understand more people getting in at this point in terms of the presidency.”
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PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2019 12:48 pm    Post subject:

Wonder how Alabama will treat fetuses who absorb their twin in utero.
With the new fetal heart beat law. They are murderers.

God Alabama is an embarrassment to our country.
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PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2019 12:51 pm    Post subject:

$62 Million in Farm Aid Went to Two Brazilian Crooks

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Because Trump started a trade war with China, the federal government set aside $12 billion to help farmers cope with the losses they were incurring as a result. Back in November, Alan Rappeport reported that not much of the money allocated was actually being distributed to farmers due to red tape and long waiting periods.

But according to Chris Sommerfeldt at New York Daily News, the Department of Agriculture was able to get over $62 million of those funds into the pockets of a couple of Brazilian crooks.

The Department of Agriculture cut a contract in January to purchase $22.3 million worth of pork from plants operated by JBS USA, a Colorado-based subsidiary of Brazil’s JBS SA, which ranks as the largest meatpacker in the world…

But previously undisclosed purchase reports obtained by the Daily News this week reveal the administration has since issued at least two more bailouts to JBS, even as Trump’s own Justice Department began investigating the meatpacker, whose owners are Joesley and Wesley Batista — two wealthy brothers who have confessed to bribing hundreds of top officials in Brazil.

Both brothers have spent time in jail over the sweeping corruption scandal.
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PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2019 12:54 pm    Post subject:

Omar Little wrote:
FYI, Biden is as responsible as anyone for why we have Obamacare and Marriage Equality. He also had a profound effect on Obama's foreign policy (moderating it) and is respected in that arena. The last thing we need is a fire breathing Unitary Executive promising radical change right now. We need a solid respectable world leader who will sign Democratic legislation and appoint good judges. If enough Democrats are elected to congress who are progressive enough to pass progressive legislation, Joe will sign it. But we may not only lose the presidency and the Senate running hard left nationally, we might lose a bunch of those house districts. Win, fix the basics, and begin with things like a public option.


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PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2019 12:55 pm    Post subject:

Ukraine Prosecutor Says No Evidence of Wrongdoing by Bidens

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Ukraine’s prosecutor general said in an interview that he had no evidence of wrongdoing by U.S. Democratic presidential candidate Joe Biden or his son, despite a swirl of allegations by President Donald Trump’s lawyer.
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PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2019 1:00 pm    Post subject:

kikanga wrote:
Wonder how Alabama will treat fetuses who absorb their twin in utero.
With the new fetal heart beat law. They are murderers.

God Alabama is an embarrassment to our country.


just Alabama?

A Coordinated Attack on Roe v. Wade’: Missouri Senate Follows Suit, Passes Restrictive Abortion Bill
by Matt Naham | 10:21 am, May 16th, 2019

Missouri poised to join Alabama, Georgia as state senate passes near-total abortion ban
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PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2019 1:15 pm    Post subject:

VicXLakers wrote:
kikanga wrote:
Wonder how Alabama will treat fetuses who absorb their twin in utero.
With the new fetal heart beat law. They are murderers.

God Alabama is an embarrassment to our country.


just Alabama?

A Coordinated Attack on Roe v. Wade’: Missouri Senate Follows Suit, Passes Restrictive Abortion Bill
by Matt Naham | 10:21 am, May 16th, 2019

Missouri poised to join Alabama, Georgia as state senate passes near-total abortion ban


Don't forget to add Ohio to that list.
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PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2019 1:18 pm    Post subject:

Omar Little wrote:
FYI, Biden is as responsible as anyone for why we have Obamacare and Marriage Equality. He also had a profound effect on Obama's foreign policy (moderating it) and is respected in that arena. The last thing we need is a fire breathing Unitary Executive promising radical change right now. We need a solid respectable world leader who will sign Democratic legislation and appoint good judges. If enough Democrats are elected to congress who are progressive enough to pass progressive legislation, Joe will sign it. But we may not only lose the presidency and the Senate running hard left nationally, we might lose a bunch of those house districts. Win, fix the basics, and begin with things like a public option.


I'm with you. And I also agree with what CL said about the debates: I'll be looking to see how they perform, and will continue to evaluate the candidates accordingly. I also think it's important (and someone alluded to this in the discussion today) to keep in mind that the election is decided in the Electoral College, not with a straight popular vote. Democrats have lost two elections recently even though they had more votes. This is a game. That's just what it is. And we aren't playing the game right if we don't consider strategy. Yes, it's important to turn out the base. But it doesn't really matter if we win CA and NY by 20% or 25%. (I'm just making a figure up.) The election is going to be decided in states like PA, FL, WI, MI, etc. What was the number in the last election, was it that the Democrats basically needed a total of 70,000 more votes in various states to have won? Did Hillary turn out the base in those states? I don't care if it's an old straight white dude, a young black lesbian, a Latino transgender grandfather, or what. We just need to win this election. It was a momentous occasion in 2008 when this country elected its first black president. It would've been another momentous occasion to have elected its first woman president in 2016, and it will still be such an occasion when it happens. And it would be the same if we ever elect a gay man or woman, the first Latino-American president, the first Asian-American, etc. But I think the Democrats are making a mistake if we make it about race or gender or sexuality. Let the process play out, support the best candidates as you see them, and whomever emerges from the field, we need to support the eventual ticket wholeheartedly. Too many people missed what was at stake in '16. If the process yields an old white guy, well, we need to get out to the polls for Grandpa Joe or Grandpa Bernie.
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PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2019 1:21 pm    Post subject:

ChefLinda wrote:
Ukraine Prosecutor Says No Evidence of Wrongdoing by Bidens

Quote:
Ukraine’s prosecutor general said in an interview that he had no evidence of wrongdoing by U.S. Democratic presidential candidate Joe Biden or his son, despite a swirl of allegations by President Donald Trump’s lawyer.


Trump knows that already, he needs the 'stink' of a Biden scandal
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PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2019 1:25 pm    Post subject:

If I become convinced (through continued polling and performance closer to the primaries) that Biden has an 80% certainty of beating Trump, and the next closest Democrat has only a 60% shot, I will be 100% on board the Biden train. I just think next February is a long way off.
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