|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
scooterp10
Starting Rotation
Joined: 04 Oct 2016
Posts: 961
|
 Posted: Sat May 25, 2019 2:32 am Post subject: |
|
|
| LAL1947 wrote: | | lonzobryant wrote: | | You guys are scared to trade him because of the mistake we made with D'Angelo. |
Not really. I've never faulted Magic for giving up D'lo. D'lo could have helped us this year, definitely, but that was the right move long-term... only wish we had gotten more from the trade, that's my gripe with it.
| Quote: | | And I've learned that this board values defense over everything. I like Lonzo but he's Ricky Rubio at best. |
For me, it's not about the defense alone... but about creating advantages, or where we can gain competitive advantages. |
DLo was a terrible trade. We thought we had PG locked up with LeBron so we let him go for cap space. DLo became an all star and we used the cap space on a bunch of one year outcasts. We could have made that DLo trade when we had a commitment. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
l4kerz
Star Player
Joined: 10 Jan 2010
Posts: 1572
|
| Posted: Sat May 25, 2019 2:51 am Post subject: |
|
|
| scooterp10 wrote: | | LAL1947 wrote: | | lonzobryant wrote: | | You guys are scared to trade him because of the mistake we made with D'Angelo. |
Not really. I've never faulted Magic for giving up D'lo. D'lo could have helped us this year, definitely, but that was the right move long-term... only wish we had gotten more from the trade, that's my gripe with it.
| Quote: | | And I've learned that this board values defense over everything. I like Lonzo but he's Ricky Rubio at best. |
For me, it's not about the defense alone... but about creating advantages, or where we can gain competitive advantages. |
DLo was a terrible trade. We thought we had PG locked up with LeBron so we let him go for cap space. DLo became an all star and we used the cap space on a bunch of one year outcasts. We could have made that DLo trade when we had a commitment. |
No, it wasn’t. That trade led to a sequence of events that included the Lakers getting Lebron and DLO getting the opportunity to shoot as much as he wants and getting selected as an All-Star alternate. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Dr. Laker
Franchise Player
Joined: 12 Apr 2002
Posts: 17105
|
| Posted: Sat May 25, 2019 3:47 am Post subject: |
|
|
| l4kerz wrote: | | scooterp10 wrote: | | LAL1947 wrote: | | lonzobryant wrote: | | You guys are scared to trade him because of the mistake we made with D'Angelo. |
Not really. I've never faulted Magic for giving up D'lo. D'lo could have helped us this year, definitely, but that was the right move long-term... only wish we had gotten more from the trade, that's my gripe with it.
| Quote: | | And I've learned that this board values defense over everything. I like Lonzo but he's Ricky Rubio at best. |
For me, it's not about the defense alone... but about creating advantages, or where we can gain competitive advantages. |
DLo was a terrible trade. We thought we had PG locked up with LeBron so we let him go for cap space. DLo became an all star and we used the cap space on a bunch of one year outcasts. We could have made that DLo trade when we had a commitment. |
No, it wasn’t. That trade led to a sequence of events that included the Lakers getting Lebron and DLO getting the opportunity to shoot as much as he wants and getting selected as an All-Star alternate. |
DLo was a bad fit for where the team was, and we got a good return for him. He is in a good situation for him now, but it would not have been good had he stayed.
_________________
On Lakersground, a concern troll is someone who is a fan of another team, but pretends to be a Lakers fan with "concerns". |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
wolfpaclaker
Retired Number
Joined: 29 May 2002
Posts: 58336
|
| Posted: Sat May 25, 2019 4:07 am Post subject: |
|
|
| I don't trade Ball unless I'm in a situation where I've got a second max player - an all-star who also commands the ball. Now you've got LBJ controlling the ball and this second all-star. Ball has shot 32% in his career on 3s. He isn't a reliable shooter. He is a good defender, great passer. If he had a 3 point shot, I'd likely keep him. Because I don't trust his shot, I'd prefer the Lakers trade Ball (and Ingram) for veteran 3nD guys and an impact big. If Lakers sign that second all-star - it's all in now. There can not be any more "wait for the young guys". It shifts to win a title next season. We have to cash in an all our young players and assets right away. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
governator
Retired Number
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
Posts: 25086
|
| Posted: Sat May 25, 2019 4:56 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Ball's got good vision but LeBron will be our Point Forward so we gonna need Lonzo to really improve his 3pt shooting and really be able to man the 3&D position. If he can, then hard to trade him unless it's an obvious win cause he'll be able to stay on court if he can shoot and D up the best perimeter players every game |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
wolfpaclaker
Retired Number
Joined: 29 May 2002
Posts: 58336
|
| Posted: Sat May 25, 2019 5:19 am Post subject: |
|
|
You look at the best teams in the league, they all have a point guard that can shoot and attack. Ball is a passive point guard, he doesn't shoot well. I understand his value in the old NBA, or if the entire team were built around his playmaking skills - meaning he would average 10-12 assists a night, and be more of the primary initiator of the team. If we ran the team around him like a young CP3 or Jason Kidd, ok. But with LBJ we won't ever play that way around Ball.
With Lebron, I suspect we need a guard that can shoot, attack quickly off the dribble. Take advantage of the isolations, because doubles don't come easily with LBJ out there. Ball can not do any of this. This is why Kyrie had so much success with LBJ, as did Wade. Both Wade and Kyrie had the ability to take advantage of LBJ being the defensive team's focus. They were great iso players, capable to make quick drives of short angles from the wing. Ball isn't this type of player.
I really like Ball as a longterm prospect, but on a championship level team, he's a 5th option role player, best suited to be a backup PG. He can't even play the Derek Fisher role as his 3 point shot isn't consistent nor does he have the same leadership skills. A really good prospect, but the right move for the Lakers if they have this option is to trade Ball to get immediate help to try and win a ring around LBJ. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Lakeshow323
Star Player
Joined: 17 Nov 2016
Posts: 1275
Location: LA
|
| Posted: Sat May 25, 2019 6:27 am Post subject: |
|
|
| It would be a mistake because his value is so low currently. He's basically a cripple who can't shoot at this point. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
BigGameHames
Star Player
Joined: 24 May 2015
Posts: 7982
|
| Posted: Sat May 25, 2019 6:58 am Post subject: |
|
|
| wolfpaclaker wrote: | | I don't trade Ball unless I'm in a situation where I've got a second max player - an all-star who also commands the ball. Now you've got LBJ controlling the ball and this second all-star. Ball has shot 32% in his career on 3s. He isn't a reliable shooter. He is a good defender, great passer. If he had a 3 point shot, I'd likely keep him. Because I don't trust his shot, I'd prefer the Lakers trade Ball (and Ingram) for veteran 3nD guys and an impact big. If Lakers sign that second all-star - it's all in now. There can not be any more "wait for the young guys". It shifts to win a title next season. We have to cash in an all our young players and assets right away. |
If we get a second max, we won’t have any more cap space and I doubt we get a more valuable player than Lonzo at his price. Quality 3/D veterans aren’t cheap. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Fortysixn2
Star Player
Joined: 22 Jun 2016
Posts: 2849
|
| Posted: Sat May 25, 2019 7:36 am Post subject: |
|
|
I was one of the biggest Ball fans here and I don’t particularly care about his ft% but I do care that he can’t stay healthy. I love his defense and passing, but right now I don’t think it’d be an error to trade him since he hasn’t proven that he can play more than 50 games a season.
I still have hope for him, but he’s going to have to prove something at this point. If we can get a decent young asset and still be able to draft garland by dropping down a few spots in the draft we should probably do it. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
audioaxes
Franchise Player
Joined: 26 Apr 2004
Posts: 12573
|
| Posted: Sat May 25, 2019 8:08 am Post subject: |
|
|
seems pretty obvious to me Ball milked his injury to try to tank any trade package for him
_________________
(bleep) Kawhi |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Baron Von Humongous
Retired Number
Joined: 02 Jul 2015
Posts: 32979
|
| Posted: Sat May 25, 2019 8:19 am Post subject: |
|
|
But Ingram's the guy who really doesn't fit with Lebron.
_________________
Under New Management |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Baron Von Humongous
Retired Number
Joined: 02 Jul 2015
Posts: 32979
|
| Posted: Sat May 25, 2019 8:20 am Post subject: |
|
|
| audioaxes wrote: | | seems pretty obvious to me Ball milked his injury to try to tank any trade package for him |
And Hillary Clinton eats baby parts on pizza.
_________________
Under New Management |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Scoffs
Starting Rotation
Joined: 12 Aug 2001
Posts: 874
|
| Posted: Sat May 25, 2019 8:27 am Post subject: |
|
|
I'm not worried about his shooting but I'm concerned about his ability to heal after an injury. If Ball can stay healthy, it'd be a huge mistake to trade him for anyone other than a superstar like AD or Kawhi.
I think we need defense at the pg position a lot more than we need scoring; we have enough scorers.
I feel the same about BI; you don't trade him for anyone other than a superstar. I'm totally opposed to trading either Ball or BI for someone like Bradley Beal; that would be mistake. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Four Decade Bandwagon
Star Player
Joined: 18 Jul 2014
Posts: 8150
|
| Posted: Sat May 25, 2019 8:44 am Post subject: |
|
|
| wolfpaclaker wrote: | | I don't trade Ball unless I'm in a situation where I've got a second max player - an all-star who also commands the ball. Now you've got LBJ controlling the ball and this second all-star. Ball has shot 32% in his career on 3s. He isn't a reliable shooter. He is a good defender, great passer. If he had a 3 point shot, I'd likely keep him. Because I don't trust his shot, I'd prefer the Lakers trade Ball (and Ingram) for veteran 3nD guys and an impact big. If Lakers sign that second all-star - it's all in now. There can not be any more "wait for the young guys". It shifts to win a title next season. We have to cash in an all our young players and assets right away. |
Just curious of your opinion the roster that needs to constructed this off-season that wins now?
Not just the big three but the depth and development of offensive and defensive chemistry it takes to win during the regular season and then the multiple playoff series. All in one year, maybe two at best.
I do not disagree that the Lakers signing James put their backs against the wall to win now. Just never envision the roster capable of doing it as realistic. Even less so that they squandered this past season by not landing the 2nd max or getting the roster some playoff experience.
Unlike past Super Teams, it doesn't look like this best case speculated roster will have any consistency, quality depth, marquee players willing to take discounts or prime players to accomplish the task of first year contending.
Hope I'm wrong, but I'm just not seeing all the pieces falling into place so easily. Is anyone else ?
Trading away Ball or the rest of the young players to attempt to pull off a faulty plan is incredibly short sighted IMO. All for a two year fantasy run and then back to another rebuild around 30 yr old declining oft injured stars making $40M a yr? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
adkindo
Retired Number
Joined: 16 Jun 2005
Posts: 40345
Location: Dirty South
|
| Posted: Sat May 25, 2019 9:08 am Post subject: |
|
|
| BigGameHames wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | | lonzobryant wrote: | | You guys are scared to trade him because of the mistake we made with D'Angelo. And I've learned that this board values defense over everything. I like Lonzo but he's Ricky Rubio at best. |
I do not know what Lonzo will become for sure....my projection is probably a little lower than most on LG. I do believe if Lonzo was from Kalamazoo and played for Michigan State....his support among Laker fans would be a fraction of what it currently is today, but if that was his background, he would not have been drafted by the Lakers. I do not say that based on what I think of him, but no player on the Lakers has been given so much rope and blind faith. It is what it is...he is not the first guy that fans wear their hometown glasses when evaluating, nor will he be the last. |
Come on man. You’re entitled to your opinion but don’t try and act like you’re objective and everybody else has blind faith. You don’t appreciate what he brings to the game, others do. He has contributed more to winning when he’s healthy than any other young guy on the roster. It’s not close, the team has been drastically worse when he’s out. Don’t convince yourself that it’s all bias, it’s not. |
I am not going to go (bleep) for tat with you because we have been there, and done that too often...nor do I think that is what you are trying to do. I would ask when we look at it through the lens you are viewing it through, how much is it related to the alternative (his backups)? I believe Ball is a good team defender, and has a special ability to run the team at an "optimal pace"....and I admit that matters. At the same time, it is an ability that many NBA PG's have, and they can also shoot, create in the half court, and create their own shot. Rondo can go at one pace....and when it works, it worked well....but games rarely remain at one optimal pace for more than a few minutes. He is an extremely flawed player....more so than any other young player on the roster, and unless he make significant gains in his weak areas, he is the exact type of player that will be eliminated in a 7 game series.
***fyi...that (bleep) above was not a bad word.....assume it thought I was referring to part of the female anatomy. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
wolfpaclaker
Retired Number
Joined: 29 May 2002
Posts: 58336
|
| Posted: Sat May 25, 2019 9:27 am Post subject: |
|
|
| BigGameHames wrote: | | wolfpaclaker wrote: | | I don't trade Ball unless I'm in a situation where I've got a second max player - an all-star who also commands the ball. Now you've got LBJ controlling the ball and this second all-star. Ball has shot 32% in his career on 3s. He isn't a reliable shooter. He is a good defender, great passer. If he had a 3 point shot, I'd likely keep him. Because I don't trust his shot, I'd prefer the Lakers trade Ball (and Ingram) for veteran 3nD guys and an impact big. If Lakers sign that second all-star - it's all in now. There can not be any more "wait for the young guys". It shifts to win a title next season. We have to cash in an all our young players and assets right away. |
If we get a second max, we won’t have any more cap space and I doubt we get a more valuable player than Lonzo at his price. Quality 3/D veterans aren’t cheap. |
I understand that, which is why I meant that we would need to trade some of Lonzo, Ingram, Kuzma, 4th pick assets for veteran 3nD players and a big, You won't win a title with Lebron, 2nd max player and the young core. You'll be a good team. Lebron has 2 more years IMO where he can lead a team to a title. After that, he's gonna enter Kobe's 2014-16 era mode. You want to try and max out these last two years, especially if you can get a 2nd max all-star level player.
To me there's only two ways about it.
Either build all out for now. Which happens the moment you sign the 2nd all-star max guy. This means you trade your young players and draft picks for veterans that fill in holes and roles to establish a ring team. You may have some young players left over, but you have to trade some to get better. Ball IMO should be traded in this scenario, as on a ring level team, he's a backup.
The other option is to keep your young players and the 4th pick, and then use Lebron to be competitive, sell tickets and make the playoffs, while you develop your young players, such that when LBJ leaves in a few years, or declines, your young players are ready to carry the load. In this scenario, you may not want to sign a 2nd max all-star level free agent, rather quality complimentary role players who can assist Lebron, but also not take away from Ball, Ingram etc. from making their mark on the team. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Boybees
Star Player
Joined: 13 May 2001
Posts: 1161
|
| Posted: Sat May 25, 2019 9:29 am Post subject: Re: Trading lonzo ball would be a tremendous mistake |
|
|
| whitemamba wrote: | | First time he’s had a full off season under his belt , he’s going to be a walking triple double next year, lakers should not blow up this core. deal anyone else keep zo. |
He has yet to show that he can consistently score at this level. I'm not sure that he can.
_________________
Jerry Buss made the Lakers into the crown jewel of the NBA. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
YSong
Star Player
Joined: 16 Sep 2016
Posts: 2329
|
| Posted: Sat May 25, 2019 10:09 am Post subject: |
|
|
| DLo LoL ... I’m happy Lakers are NOT FACING THE PREDICAMENT of giving this guy a 5/$150mm extension |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
unleasHell
Franchise Player
Joined: 16 Apr 2001
Posts: 11591
Location: Stay Thirsty my Friends
|
| Posted: Sat May 25, 2019 10:18 am Post subject: Re: Trading lonzo ball would be a tremendous mistake |
|
|
| whitemamba wrote: | | First time he’s had a full off season under his belt , he’s going to be a walking triple double next year, lakers should not blow up this core. deal anyone else keep zo. |
Huh?
Do you know how he spends his off-season?
Making Rap records perhaps?
Caring for his baby perhaps?
Worrying about his Shoe deal perhaps?
Listening to his dad perhaps?
Working on his 3point shot? HOPEFULLY
Working on his Free Throws? HOPEFULLY
This is a guy who has averaged 10ppg in 2 seasons (which is kinda low right?), missed 57% of his FT's (which is REALLY low, right?), missed about 70% of his 3point shots (Which is also really low, right?) and has missed an average of 30+ games per year (Which is terrible for a young guy, right?)..
A guy who is under contract to make $11mil in the 2020/21, (which is kinda high based on his poor stats, don't ya think?)
Trade him as fast as possible and move on, Lakers would be LUCKY to get the Suns or Bulls first round pick for him...
_________________
“Always remember... Rumors are carried by haters, spread by fools, and accepted by idiots.” |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
adkindo
Retired Number
Joined: 16 Jun 2005
Posts: 40345
Location: Dirty South
|
| Posted: Sat May 25, 2019 10:22 am Post subject: Re: Trading lonzo ball would be a tremendous mistake |
|
|
| unleasHell wrote: | | whitemamba wrote: | | First time he’s had a full off season under his belt , he’s going to be a walking triple double next year, lakers should not blow up this core. deal anyone else keep zo. |
Huh?
Do you know how he spends his off-season?
Making Rap records perhaps?
Caring for his baby perhaps?
Worrying about his Shoe deal perhaps?
Listening to his dad perhaps?
Working on his 3point shot? HOPEFULLY
Working on his Free Throws? HOPEFULLY
This is a guy who has averaged 10ppg in 2 seasons (which is kinda low right?), missed 57% of his FT's (which is REALLY low, right?), missed about 70% of his 3point shots (Which is also really low, right?) and has missed an average of 30+ games per year (Which is terrible for a young guy, right?)..
A guy who is under contract to make $11mil in the 2020/21, (which is kinda high based on his poor stats, don't ya think?)
Trade him as fast as possible and move on, Lakers would be LUCKY to get the Suns or Bulls first round pick for him... |
I would need more than the Bulls pick for him. I hate the "Lebron Timeline", but that does not mean it is not real....so I would bet on Lonzo helping more than anyone that is drafted @ #7 over the next year or two. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
laker50
Star Player
Joined: 07 Mar 2014
Posts: 2140
|
| Posted: Sat May 25, 2019 10:29 am Post subject: |
|
|
Would pick Garland at 4 and see how he works out. If his defense is good enough. And if his shooting is for real.
Then would be free to trade Lonzo.
But Lonzo is the only serviceable PG the Lakers have right now. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Lakers4Life33
Star Player
Joined: 26 Jun 2005
Posts: 1174
|
| Posted: Sat May 25, 2019 10:53 am Post subject: |
|
|
| I can’t wait to bump this thread when Lonzo is making playoff Draymond type impact this upcoming season |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
dabask11
Star Player
Joined: 27 Dec 2012
Posts: 1989
|
| Posted: Sat May 25, 2019 10:58 am Post subject: |
|
|
| YSong wrote: | | DLo LoL ... I’m happy Lakers are NOT FACING THE PREDICAMENT of giving this guy a 5/$150mm extension |
They face the PREDICAMENT of giving kemba, vucevic, middleton such money instead, which is even worse. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
YSong
Star Player
Joined: 16 Sep 2016
Posts: 2329
|
| Posted: Sat May 25, 2019 11:02 am Post subject: |
|
|
| dabask11 wrote: | | YSong wrote: | | DLo LoL ... I’m happy Lakers are NOT FACING THE PREDICAMENT of giving this guy a 5/$150mm extension |
They face the PREDICAMENT of giving kemba, vucevic, middleton such money instead, which is even worse. |
All 3 guys who are better than DLo  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
whitemamba
Starting Rotation
Joined: 17 May 2009
Posts: 475
Location: LA
|
| Posted: Sat May 25, 2019 11:36 am Post subject: Re: Trading lonzo ball would be a tremendous mistake |
|
|
| unleasHell wrote: | | whitemamba wrote: | | First time he’s had a full off season under his belt , he’s going to be a walking triple double next year, lakers should not blow up this core. deal anyone else keep zo. |
Huh?
Do you know how he spends his off-season?
Making Rap records perhaps?
Caring for his baby perhaps?
Worrying about his Shoe deal perhaps?
Listening to his dad perhaps?
Working on his 3point shot? HOPEFULLY
Working on his Free Throws? HOPEFULLY
This is a guy who has averaged 10ppg in 2 seasons (which is kinda low right?), missed 57% of his FT's (which is REALLY low, right?), missed about 70% of his 3point shots (Which is also really low, right?) and has missed an average of 30+ games per year (Which is terrible for a young guy, right?)..
A guy who is under contract to make $11mil in the 2020/21, (which is kinda high based on his poor stats, don't ya think?)
Trade him as fast as possible and move on, Lakers would be LUCKY to get the Suns or Bulls first round pick for him... |
Can you read? Do you understand that player development takes time? This is the first time he’s had a full offseason under his belt.. how can he train if he’s hurt. Lakers are extremely sensitive with injuries. Ball possesses something only a few players ever had. Team first! Elite defense st a young age , go look up Giannis first few years numbers and come back to me. Rome wasn’t build in a day kid.
_________________
lets go lakers. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
