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LakerSD Franchise Player
Joined: 10 Nov 2016 Posts: 23731
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Posted: Sat May 25, 2019 9:03 am Post subject: |
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AFireInside619 wrote: | Quote: | There is growing concern in Philadelphia that Jimmy Butler could wind up signing with the Lakers come July 1, but the Sixers might be able to at least get something in return. Essentially, Elton Brand could facilitate a pick swap with Rob Pelinka that would give the Sixers the No. 4 pick overall and the Lakers the No. 24 overall pick. Los Angeles would receive Butler in a sign-and-trade. |
I read this from a website called Metro with some writer from Boston. Must be the dumbest Lakers take I’ve heard in a minute. Even dumber than Ingram for CP3. Why would the Lakers have to sign and trade Butler for the 4th pick when we could have both? Stupid. |
It’s funny because who would give a top 5 lottery pick up in a S&T?
I feel like Lebron is trying to ensure he has 2 proven star level players (top 20ish).
Whether it’s Butler/Kyrie, Kyrie/AD, Kawhi/AD, Kawhi/Kyrie, Kawhi/Butler...
The issue is none of this works without sign and trade and I think Butler has made pretty clear he is looking for max and he doesn’t care who offers. |
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crucifixion Starting Rotation
Joined: 05 May 2005 Posts: 909
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Posted: Sat May 25, 2019 9:06 am Post subject: |
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AFireInside619 wrote: | Quote: | There is growing concern in Philadelphia that Jimmy Butler could wind up signing with the Lakers come July 1, but the Sixers might be able to at least get something in return. Essentially, Elton Brand could facilitate a pick swap with Rob Pelinka that would give the Sixers the No. 4 pick overall and the Lakers the No. 24 overall pick. Los Angeles would receive Butler in a sign-and-trade. |
I read this from a website called Metro with some writer from Boston. Must be the dumbest Lakers take I’ve heard in a minute. Even dumber than Ingram for CP3. Why would the Lakers have to sign and trade Butler for the 4th pick when we could have both? Stupid. |
You're missing the point. This would be a brilliant move.
Basically this would allow us to use our capspace first to sign someone, say Irving. Then sign and trade to get Butler while shipping out bullock or someone.
Basically we end up with three stars, LBJ, Irving, Butler AND still have lonzo, Ingram, Kuz, etc. |
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governator Franchise Player
Joined: 28 Jan 2006 Posts: 24994
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Posted: Sat May 25, 2019 9:08 am Post subject: |
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crucifixion wrote: | AFireInside619 wrote: | Quote: | There is growing concern in Philadelphia that Jimmy Butler could wind up signing with the Lakers come July 1, but the Sixers might be able to at least get something in return. Essentially, Elton Brand could facilitate a pick swap with Rob Pelinka that would give the Sixers the No. 4 pick overall and the Lakers the No. 24 overall pick. Los Angeles would receive Butler in a sign-and-trade. |
I read this from a website called Metro with some writer from Boston. Must be the dumbest Lakers take I’ve heard in a minute. Even dumber than Ingram for CP3. Why would the Lakers have to sign and trade Butler for the 4th pick when we could have both? Stupid. |
You're missing the point. This would be a brilliant move.
Basically this would allow us to use our capspace first to sign someone, say Irving. Then sign and trade to get Butler while shipping out bullock or someone.
Basically we end up with three stars, LBJ, Irving, Butler AND still have lonzo, Ingram, Kuz, etc. |
How's the trade $ work? |
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YSong Star Player
Joined: 16 Sep 2016 Posts: 2329
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Posted: Sat May 25, 2019 9:08 am Post subject: |
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Lol only if they give us Tucker and 2 future unprotected 1st rd picks |
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Inspector Gadget Retired Number
Joined: 18 Apr 2016 Posts: 46490
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Posted: Sat May 25, 2019 9:09 am Post subject: |
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Kevin O’Connor: “That’s something I’m fascinated by. The idea of flipping (pick number) four and Lonzo (Ball).”
Jonathan Tjarks: “I think Houston would do it for sure.”
Bill Simmons: “I don’t even think you need to throw in four. I think Lonzo for Chris Paul, I think Lonzo would be too much. It’s one of my favorite fake trades.” |
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LakerSD Franchise Player
Joined: 10 Nov 2016 Posts: 23731
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Posted: Sat May 25, 2019 9:09 am Post subject: |
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crucifixion wrote: | AFireInside619 wrote: | Quote: | There is growing concern in Philadelphia that Jimmy Butler could wind up signing with the Lakers come July 1, but the Sixers might be able to at least get something in return. Essentially, Elton Brand could facilitate a pick swap with Rob Pelinka that would give the Sixers the No. 4 pick overall and the Lakers the No. 24 overall pick. Los Angeles would receive Butler in a sign-and-trade. |
I read this from a website called Metro with some writer from Boston. Must be the dumbest Lakers take I’ve heard in a minute. Even dumber than Ingram for CP3. Why would the Lakers have to sign and trade Butler for the 4th pick when we could have both? Stupid. |
You're missing the point. This would be a brilliant move.
Basically this would allow us to use our capspace first to sign someone, say Irving. Then sign and trade to get Butler while shipping out bullock or someone.
Basically we end up with three stars, LBJ, Irving, Butler AND still have lonzo, Ingram, Kuz, etc. |
While true, it’s stupid to give up #4 for a S&T imo. |
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YSong Star Player
Joined: 16 Sep 2016 Posts: 2329
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Posted: Sat May 25, 2019 9:10 am Post subject: |
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governator wrote: | crucifixion wrote: | AFireInside619 wrote: | Quote: | There is growing concern in Philadelphia that Jimmy Butler could wind up signing with the Lakers come July 1, but the Sixers might be able to at least get something in return. Essentially, Elton Brand could facilitate a pick swap with Rob Pelinka that would give the Sixers the No. 4 pick overall and the Lakers the No. 24 overall pick. Los Angeles would receive Butler in a sign-and-trade. |
I read this from a website called Metro with some writer from Boston. Must be the dumbest Lakers take I’ve heard in a minute. Even dumber than Ingram for CP3. Why would the Lakers have to sign and trade Butler for the 4th pick when we could have both? Stupid. |
You're missing the point. This would be a brilliant move.
Basically this would allow us to use our capspace first to sign someone, say Irving. Then sign and trade to get Butler while shipping out bullock or someone.
Basically we end up with three stars, LBJ, Irving, Butler AND still have lonzo, Ingram, Kuz, etc. |
How's the trade $ work? |
Yup I’m curious too |
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Inspector Gadget Retired Number
Joined: 18 Apr 2016 Posts: 46490
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Posted: Sat May 25, 2019 9:10 am Post subject: |
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What do you guys think of trading Lonzo for Chris Paul? |
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LakerSD Franchise Player
Joined: 10 Nov 2016 Posts: 23731
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Posted: Sat May 25, 2019 9:11 am Post subject: |
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Inspector Gadget wrote: | What do you guys think of trading Lonzo for Chris Paul? |
Disaster and incompetent asset management. |
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King Randle Star Player
Joined: 21 Jul 2014 Posts: 7313
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Posted: Sat May 25, 2019 9:18 am Post subject: |
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Inspector Gadget wrote: | What do you guys think of trading Lonzo for Chris Paul? |
I’m surprised you even posted this. CP is washed up and owed millions...Zo is just getting started and finally was injury free to workout this summer. |
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Day Star Player
Joined: 12 Mar 2012 Posts: 1704 Location: San Francisco, CA
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Posted: Sat May 25, 2019 9:19 am Post subject: |
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YSong wrote: | governator wrote: | crucifixion wrote: | AFireInside619 wrote: | Quote: | There is growing concern in Philadelphia that Jimmy Butler could wind up signing with the Lakers come July 1, but the Sixers might be able to at least get something in return. Essentially, Elton Brand could facilitate a pick swap with Rob Pelinka that would give the Sixers the No. 4 pick overall and the Lakers the No. 24 overall pick. Los Angeles would receive Butler in a sign-and-trade. |
I read this from a website called Metro with some writer from Boston. Must be the dumbest Lakers take I’ve heard in a minute. Even dumber than Ingram for CP3. Why would the Lakers have to sign and trade Butler for the 4th pick when we could have both? Stupid. |
You're missing the point. This would be a brilliant move.
Basically this would allow us to use our capspace first to sign someone, say Irving. Then sign and trade to get Butler while shipping out bullock or someone.
Basically we end up with three stars, LBJ, Irving, Butler AND still have lonzo, Ingram, Kuz, etc. |
How's the trade $ work? |
Yup I’m curious too |
So we would sign Kyrie to a max, Butler is making 18 mil this season so that would be the salary we'd have to match, right? And then we'd resign him to a max going into luxury tax.
Can we trade players that contract's are up like KCP? We might be able to do KCP, Bonga, Bullock, and the #4 then, right? That would be insane if that's how it works.
That would make Lonzo expendable though.
Kyrie / Lonzo
Butler / Hart
Ingram / LeBron
LeBron / Kuz
McGee / Mo
If Jimmy makes it known he's leaving then this would be a really good move for Philly since they're in the east and whether it's the Lakers of the Warriors in the finals it's not like it changes much for them.
Last edited by Day on Sat May 25, 2019 9:22 am; edited 1 time in total |
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LakerMindLA Star Player
Joined: 26 Dec 2008 Posts: 5344
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Posted: Sat May 25, 2019 9:20 am Post subject: |
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LakerSD wrote: | Inspector Gadget wrote: | What do you guys think of trading Lonzo for Chris Paul? |
Disaster and incompetent asset management. |
Which means the FO will probably make this trade because the media will say the Lakers got a star for Lonzo. |
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Inspector Gadget Retired Number
Joined: 18 Apr 2016 Posts: 46490
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Posted: Sat May 25, 2019 9:21 am Post subject: |
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King Randle wrote: | Inspector Gadget wrote: | What do you guys think of trading Lonzo for Chris Paul? |
I’m surprised you even posted this. CP is washed up and owed millions...Zo is just getting started and finally was injury free to workout this summer. |
I bought it up cause Bill Simmons mentioned it in a pod |
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LakerMindLA Star Player
Joined: 26 Dec 2008 Posts: 5344
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Posted: Sat May 25, 2019 9:23 am Post subject: |
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The only reason the FO does a S&T for a star is to get the full MLE to use.
It would not make any sense to give any assets to get an extra $4m to spend on another FA.
I am pretty confident saying there is a 0% change we do a S&T for any max FA. |
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Sentient Meat Franchise Player
Joined: 04 Jul 2014 Posts: 12978
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Posted: Sat May 25, 2019 9:26 am Post subject: |
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Chris Paul gets crappy franchises to the playoffs 11 out of 14 years...
LG calls him garbage.
Anthony Davis gets same crappy franchise to the playoffs 2 out of 7 years...
Let's trade everyone.
Now, I'm not saying we should trade for Chris Paul as he's past his good years...
However, I am trying to show you the absurdity of trading the core and Garland for AD. |
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Rubin Starting Rotation
Joined: 23 Aug 2017 Posts: 632
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Posted: Sat May 25, 2019 9:27 am Post subject: |
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venturalakersfan wrote: | Rubin wrote: | venturalakersfan wrote: | Rubin wrote: | venturalakersfan wrote: | Rubin wrote: | pjiddy wrote: | What if we're waiting on Kawhi this Summer and while he thinks it over, Butler and Kyrie get pissed they weren't the first option and sign elsewhere? |
I would suspect that, due mostly to LeBron’s recruiting over the next five weeks, the Lakers are going to have a very good idea of who might be coming well in advance of June 30. |
Yes, Paul George is locked in as a Laker. |
I fail to see how this has any relevance to what I said. Please explain. |
Try exploring back a year ago when we were sure in advance of June 30 that George was coming here. We didn’t have a good idea, we were wrong. Nothing is given. |
1. LeBron wasn’t directly and actively recruiting for us last summer. He agreed on July 1 and immediately left for Europe. We didn’t get a single report (or social media activity) of him recruiting free agents.
2. I didn’t say anything was given. I said with LeBron’s active efforts and relationships with players, the Lakers should have a sense of who might be joining before June 30. Last summer without LeBron and this summer with him are different.
Not to mention that PG is a terrible example to use. In the couple weeks leading up to free agency there was already a LOT of buzz that he’d be re-signing with OKC. |
Right, an example that doesn’t jive with the popular opinion is a terrible example. |
It’s a terrible example because it is not congruent with the original point you were trying to make. Nobody (at least nobody reasonable) thought George was “locked in as a Laker” in the month or so leading up to June 30 because there were an increasing number of reports from different sources suggesting he could stay in OKC.
Which actually proves my point further — having a star player that has good relationships with free agents (in last summer’s case, Westbrook and his relationship with George) already locked in on your team allows teams to have a sense of who might be signing ahead of June 30. Last year’s Lakers didn’t have that. This year they have LeBron to fill that role.
Last edited by Rubin on Sat May 25, 2019 9:33 am; edited 1 time in total |
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King Randle Star Player
Joined: 21 Jul 2014 Posts: 7313
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Posted: Sat May 25, 2019 9:31 am Post subject: |
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LakerMindLA wrote: | The only reason the FO does a S&T for a star is to get the full MLE to use.
It would not make any sense to give any assets to get an extra $4m to spend on another FA.
I am pretty confident saying there is a 0% change we do a S&T for any max FA. |
Agreed. I think this FO is really putting in the work to get it right. Pelinka is a 24/7 GM...he’s more than likely strategizing with Vogel and Kidd...plan A,B and C. Pelinka and Rambis had a plan in place and it started with the coaching. They were not offering anyone more than a 3 year deal. That’s the window with Bron and then a new era will begin after. Why give the new era to a coach you’re not sure would work without LeBron? I think it was smart. I know it’s wait and see what they deliver...but I’m hoping they get it right. If they blow it then it will be anyone’s guess if they ever turn it around. |
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HAWAIIGUY27 Star Player
Joined: 11 Jul 2006 Posts: 2338 Location: Los Angeles, CA
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Posted: Sat May 25, 2019 9:31 am Post subject: |
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Select Darius Garland at #4
Trade Lonzo to CHI for #7 (select Jaxson Hayes)
Sign Khris Middleton to a $112M/4yr deal
Sign Derrick Rose to a $15M/2yr deal (w/ Team Option)
Sign Javale McGee to Vet. Min.
Sign Tyson Chandler to Vet. Min.
Sign Reggie Bullock to MLE
Rose ($7M)/Garland ($4.5M)/Bonga ($1.6M)
Middleton ($26M)/Hart ($1.9)
Ingram ($7.3M)/Bullock (MLE)
James ($37.4M)/Kuzma ($2M)/Wagner ($2M)
McGee ($2.2M)/Hayes ($3.3M)/Chandler ($2.2M)
= ~$97.4M
Flexibility to trade for AD ($27.1M): Ingram ($7.3M) + Garland ($4.5M) + Kuzma ($2M) + Hayes ($3.3M) + Chandler ($2.3M, buyout) + future pick(s) (~$4-5M) = $23.4-24.4M
Rose ($7M)/Caruso ($.5)/Bonga ($1.6M)
Middleton ($26M)/Hart ($1.9M)
Bullock (MLE)/Green ($2.3M)
James ($37.4M)/Wagner ($2M)
Davis ($27.1M)/McGee ($2.2M)/Kornet ($1.5M)
=~$109.5M
Fill in with minimum contracts:
G: Alex Caruso, Jeremy Lin, Ian Clark, Nik Stauskas, Jodie Meeks
F: Jeff Green, Corey Brewer, Thomas Bryant, Maxi Kleber, Daniel Theis, Richaun Holmes
C: Luke Kornet, Noah Vonleh, Joakim Noah, Nerlens Noel
Last edited by HAWAIIGUY27 on Sat May 25, 2019 9:35 am; edited 2 times in total |
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LakerSD Franchise Player
Joined: 10 Nov 2016 Posts: 23731
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Posted: Sat May 25, 2019 9:34 am Post subject: |
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Sentient Meat wrote: | However, I am trying to show you the absurdity of trading the core and Garland for AD. |
It is just as absurd. Both equally dumb. |
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wolfpaclaker Retired Number
Joined: 29 May 2002 Posts: 58318
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Posted: Sat May 25, 2019 9:34 am Post subject: |
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That Butler trade - is that allowed in the CBA?
You sign your player who is an impending FA. Trade him on draft day to another team along with your draft pick, to get back a higher pick.
This would only work when the Lakers have capspace, meaning the Sixers would have to agree with the Lakers in advance on the players. And then at that point it makes no sense for the Lakers to make this deal, as they could sign Butler outright and then keep the 4th pick for themselves.
This would make sense if the deal were giving Butler more money, but the CBA rule is that he can't get more years via sign and trade. This deal would make more sense if we were shedding salary in a sign and trade - such as moving lots of contracts in exchange for Butler, opening up so much money that we could then sign another major free agent. That likely isn't happening.
So I don't get any incentive for the Lakers to trade the 4th to go down to 24th just to get Jimmy, when they get Jimmy straight up on the open market. |
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Sentient Meat Franchise Player
Joined: 04 Jul 2014 Posts: 12978
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Posted: Sat May 25, 2019 9:35 am Post subject: |
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LakerSD wrote: | Sentient Meat wrote: | However, I am trying to show you the absurdity of trading the core and Garland for AD. |
It is just as absurd. Both equally dumb. |
Agree |
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Rubin Starting Rotation
Joined: 23 Aug 2017 Posts: 632
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Posted: Sat May 25, 2019 9:36 am Post subject: |
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Sentient Meat wrote: | Chris Paul gets crappy franchises to the playoffs 11 out of 14 years...
LG calls him garbage.
Anthony Davis gets same crappy franchise to the playoffs 2 out of 7 years...
Let's trade everyone.
Now, I'm not saying we should trade for Chris Paul as he's past his good years...
However, I am trying to show you the absurdity of trading the core and Garland for AD. |
CP had prime Blake Griffin (MVP candidate), prime DJ (DPOY candidate), and Redick, one of the best shooters in the league.
The best teammates AD has had...Jrue Holiday, Ryan Anderson and playoff Rondo?
Plus AD is 26 and just entering his prime. Not sure how this is a valid comparison. |
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wolfpaclaker Retired Number
Joined: 29 May 2002 Posts: 58318
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Posted: Sat May 25, 2019 9:44 am Post subject: |
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crucifixion wrote: | AFireInside619 wrote: | Quote: | There is growing concern in Philadelphia that Jimmy Butler could wind up signing with the Lakers come July 1, but the Sixers might be able to at least get something in return. Essentially, Elton Brand could facilitate a pick swap with Rob Pelinka that would give the Sixers the No. 4 pick overall and the Lakers the No. 24 overall pick. Los Angeles would receive Butler in a sign-and-trade. |
I read this from a website called Metro with some writer from Boston. Must be the dumbest Lakers take I’ve heard in a minute. Even dumber than Ingram for CP3. Why would the Lakers have to sign and trade Butler for the 4th pick when we could have both? Stupid. |
You're missing the point. This would be a brilliant move.
Basically this would allow us to use our capspace first to sign someone, say Irving. Then sign and trade to get Butler while shipping out bullock or someone.
Basically we end up with three stars, LBJ, Irving, Butler AND still have lonzo, Ingram, Kuz, etc. |
I understand how that could work - assuming the 76ers like the 4th pick that we're picking. Say we take DeAndre Hunter, nice wing replacement and fits in with the Embiid/Simmons timeline. Anyway, point is, we would have to give up more than just the 4th pick.
If we use the second max, then also have LBJ. To then make a trade we need to match salaries, up to a certain percentage. The 4th pick alone does not carry enough weight. So we would be giving up a bit more. Even if you overpaid Bullock for a 1 year deal, it would require more players. Certainly we would be giving up Lonzo, Ingram. It's same formula as to how an AD trade could happen once you sign a 2nd max. You need to send out a lot of salaries to match Butler's incoming salary in that scenario, |
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audioaxes Franchise Player
Joined: 26 Apr 2004 Posts: 12573
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Posted: Sat May 25, 2019 9:49 am Post subject: |
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LakerMindLA wrote: | The only reason the FO does a S&T for a star is to get the full MLE to use.
It would not make any sense to give any assets to get an extra $4m to spend on another FA.
I am pretty confident saying there is a 0% change we do a S&T for any max FA. |
most of all it also allows us to get 2 stars instead of 1. Sign first start outright, trade for 2nd star. _________________ (bleep) Kawhi |
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noahp45 Star Player
Joined: 23 Apr 2006 Posts: 6572 Location: Oceanside Ca
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Posted: Sat May 25, 2019 9:53 am Post subject: |
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[quote="Inspector Gadget"][quote="King Randle"] Inspector Gadget wrote: | What do you guys think of trading Lonzo for Chris Paul? |
Please leave LG right now. |
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