White Actors Suing ‘Hamilton’ for Racial Discrimination
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lakeshow03
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2019 10:01 am    Post subject:

ringfinger wrote:
Also, kind of funny and mind blowing, but the Indian scientist in Short Circuit back in the day was white. Huh.


In the Netflix show Masters of None, Aziz Ansari devotes an whole episode to this topic and they mention this movie among others
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loslakersss
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2019 10:44 am    Post subject:

lakeshow03 wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
Also, kind of funny and mind blowing, but the Indian scientist in Short Circuit back in the day was white. Huh.


In the Netflix show Masters of None, Aziz Ansari devotes an whole episode to this topic and they mention this movie among others


This the the "curry favor" episode huh
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governator
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2019 12:58 pm    Post subject:

https://www.yahoo.com/movies/jordan-peele-says-cant-see-casting-white-dude-lead-one-movies-104449527.html

What you guys think about that?

(ps. he's not discriminating against white actors, he prefers to make ethnic theme movies)
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ringfinger
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2019 1:16 pm    Post subject:

governator wrote:
https://www.yahoo.com/movies/jordan-peele-says-cant-see-casting-white-dude-lead-one-movies-104449527.html

What you guys think about that?

(ps. he's not discriminating against white actors, he prefers to make ethnic theme movies)


I have no issues with it. But I also have no issues with it the other way too.

It’s art. Sometimes you want to use blue, sometimes you want to paint it green.
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governator
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2019 1:22 pm    Post subject:

ringfinger wrote:
governator wrote:
https://www.yahoo.com/movies/jordan-peele-says-cant-see-casting-white-dude-lead-one-movies-104449527.html

What you guys think about that?

(ps. he's not discriminating against white actors, he prefers to make ethnic theme movies)


I have no issues with it. But I also have no issues with it the other way too.

It’s art. Sometimes you want to use blue, sometimes you want to paint it green.


There's a difference between prefering to do an ethnic story follow by casting the ethnic cast and to do an ethnic story but casting a white actor to perform the ethnic role
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ringfinger
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2019 1:31 pm    Post subject:

governator wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
governator wrote:
https://www.yahoo.com/movies/jordan-peele-says-cant-see-casting-white-dude-lead-one-movies-104449527.html

What you guys think about that?

(ps. he's not discriminating against white actors, he prefers to make ethnic theme movies)


I have no issues with it. But I also have no issues with it the other way too.

It’s art. Sometimes you want to use blue, sometimes you want to paint it green.


There's a difference between prefering to do an ethnic story follow by casting the ethnic cast and to do an ethnic story but casting a white actor to perform the ethnic role


So are you opposed to the casting of a black actor to play George Washington in Hamilton? George Washington was white.

I’m not. I understand it can get dicey at times, but to me that is an acceptable consequence of giving artists the freedom to create their art and tell their story.
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governator
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2019 1:34 pm    Post subject:

ringfinger wrote:
governator wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
governator wrote:
https://www.yahoo.com/movies/jordan-peele-says-cant-see-casting-white-dude-lead-one-movies-104449527.html

What you guys think about that?

(ps. he's not discriminating against white actors, he prefers to make ethnic theme movies)


I have no issues with it. But I also have no issues with it the other way too.

It’s art. Sometimes you want to use blue, sometimes you want to paint it green.


There's a difference between prefering to do an ethnic story follow by casting the ethnic cast and to do an ethnic story but casting a white actor to perform the ethnic role


So are you opposed to the casting of a black actor to play George Washington in Hamilton? George Washington was white.

I’m not. I understand it can get dicey at times, but to me that is an acceptable consequence of giving artists the freedom to create their art and tell their story.


good point with Hamilton, and no, I don't have a problem with it
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Fan0Bynum17
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2019 10:00 am    Post subject:

I tend to lean towards artistic freedom with things like this. I've never seen Hamilton, but it seems like the race of the cast seems to be part of the artistic purpose of it. (bleep) like this only serves to exacerbate racial tensions as well, and there's already too much of that going on.
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governator
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2019 7:00 am    Post subject:

https://www.cnn.com/style/article/trump-cantonese-opera-intl/index.html

https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/eveqjk/chinesenfasching-in-bayern-was-ich-in-dietfurt-ueber-rassismus-gelernt-habe
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BigGameHames
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2019 8:00 am    Post subject:

Fan0Bynum17 wrote:
I tend to lean towards artistic freedom with things like this. I've never seen Hamilton, but it seems like the race of the cast seems to be part of the artistic purpose of it. (bleep) like this only serves to exacerbate racial tensions as well, and there's already too much of that going on.


Totally agree.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2019 10:03 am    Post subject:

Who really invented the cotton gin?
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PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2019 4:14 am    Post subject:

Baron Von Humongous wrote:
governator wrote:
What you guys think about Loqueesha movie?

https://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/movies/ny-loqueesha-white-chicks-jeremy-saville-marlon-wayans-20190514-h7rlxjlvpjbpvcggero43ivmxm-story.html

Not appropriate for this thread.


Any thoughts?
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ringfinger
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PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2019 5:36 am    Post subject:

governator wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
governator wrote:
What you guys think about Loqueesha movie?

https://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/movies/ny-loqueesha-white-chicks-jeremy-saville-marlon-wayans-20190514-h7rlxjlvpjbpvcggero43ivmxm-story.html

Not appropriate for this thread.


Any thoughts?


If you don’t like it, don’t watch it. You can always change the channel (err, stream, haha).

There’s no other reasonable alternative. I mean, we don’t want to start legalizing types of art IMO.
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gblews
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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2019 9:47 pm    Post subject:

Fan0Bynum17 wrote:
I tend to lean towards artistic freedom with things like this. I've never seen Hamilton, but it seems like the race of the cast seems to be part of the artistic purpose of it. (bleep) like this only serves to exacerbate racial tensions as well, and there's already too much of that going on.

Lin Manuel-Miranda said that he wanted to create a show about America’s beginnings but with a cast that looks like America today. Thus the casting of actors with no regard to matching the actor’s race with the race of the original character being portrayed.

Why would you think hiring black or Asian, etc, actors for roles that would “normally” have gone to white actors “only exacerbate racial tension”?
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gblews
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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2019 10:17 pm    Post subject:

governator wrote:
https://www.yahoo.com/movies/jordan-peele-says-cant-see-casting-white-dude-lead-one-movies-104449527.html

What you guys think about that?

(ps. he's not discriminating against white actors, he prefers to make ethnic theme movies)

I think he very much is discriminating against white actors, at least with respect to lead roles in his movies. But I don’t think he is doing anything that MANY other H’wood producers are currently doing except perhaps being out front with it. Darren Aronsky, the Coen Bros, and I think, Ridley Scott, have expressed less than racially tolerant views when commenting about why they don’t have racial minorities in their movies. Doesn’t seem to be much of an issue for them.

BTW, Peele doesn’t make “ethnic” movies exclusively. You might say Get Out had some ethnic themes, but the focus of the movie on black people was coincidental. Us definitely was not an “ethnic” story.
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tlim
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PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2019 7:22 am    Post subject:

Asians should all sue because there were basically none in the GoT? Seriously, their lawsuit won’t get far unless those judges are hardcore trump folks.
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PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2019 10:18 am    Post subject:

tlim wrote:
Asians should all sue because there were basically none in the GoT? Seriously, their lawsuit won’t get far unless those judges are hardcore trump folks.


Which is exactly why we should allow artists to decide how their art is to be portrayed, even if we don’t like the outcome sometimes.

Because if you leave it to someone else, you can’t always control who that someone else is and how they will decide how the artist should create their artwork.
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PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2019 12:32 pm    Post subject:

tlim wrote:
Asians should all sue because there were basically none in the GoT? Seriously, their lawsuit won’t get far unless those judges are hardcore trump folks.


Hollywood operates by the numbers. They want high profile actors to draw audiences. How many Asians are high profile enough to garner large audiences?

I don't have the numbers but I believe Caucasians make up more than half of the movie going audiences.
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Last edited by jodeke on Sat May 25, 2019 12:40 pm; edited 1 time in total
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tox
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PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2019 12:40 pm    Post subject:

gblews wrote:
governator wrote:
https://www.yahoo.com/movies/jordan-peele-says-cant-see-casting-white-dude-lead-one-movies-104449527.html

What you guys think about that?

(ps. he's not discriminating against white actors, he prefers to make ethnic theme movies)

I think he very much is discriminating against white actors, at least with respect to lead roles in his movies. But I don’t think he is doing anything that MANY other H’wood producers are currently doing except perhaps being out front with it. Darren Aronsky, the Coen Bros, and I think, Ridley Scott, have expressed less than racially tolerant views when commenting about why they don’t have racial minorities in their movies. Doesn’t seem to be much of an issue for them.

BTW, Peele doesn’t make “ethnic” movies exclusively. You might say Get Out had some ethnic themes, but the focus of the movie on black people was coincidental. Us definitely was not an “ethnic” story.

Blackness is absolutely integral to Get Out, what movie did you watch? My read on Us was more socioeconomic and would've worked with a white family, but there's probably also a racial read to it.
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governator
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PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2019 12:41 pm    Post subject:

jodeke wrote:
tlim wrote:
Asians should all sue because there were basically none in the GoT? Seriously, their lawsuit won’t get far unless those judges are hardcore trump folks.


Hollywood operates by the numbers. They want high profile actors to draw audiences. How many Asians are high profile enough to garner large audiences?


That movie Crazy Rich Asians hopefully broke that stereotype ceiling

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crazy_Rich_Asians_(film)
Crazy Rich Asians grossed $174.5 million in the United States and Canada, and $64 million elsewhere, for a worldwide gross of $238.5 million, against a production budget of $30 million.[4] In October 2018, it became the highest-grossing romantic comedy of the last 10 years, and the 6th-highest-grossing ever
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PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2019 12:46 pm    Post subject:

governator wrote:
jodeke wrote:
tlim wrote:
Asians should all sue because there were basically none in the GoT? Seriously, their lawsuit won’t get far unless those judges are hardcore trump folks.


Hollywood operates by the numbers. They want high profile actors to draw audiences. How many Asians are high profile enough to garner large audiences?


That movie Crazy Rich Asians hopefully broke that stereotype ceiling

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crazy_Rich_Asians_(film)
Crazy Rich Asians grossed $174.5 million in the United States and Canada, and $64 million elsewhere, for a worldwide gross of $238.5 million, against a production budget of $30 million.[4] In October 2018, it became the highest-grossing romantic comedy of the last 10 years, and the 6th-highest-grossing ever

That's showing on DirecTV, I'll have to watch it.
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PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2019 12:51 pm    Post subject:

Fan0Bynum17 wrote:
I tend to lean towards artistic freedom with things like this. I've never seen Hamilton, but it seems like the race of the cast seems to be part of the artistic purpose of it. (bleep) like this only serves to exacerbate racial tensions as well, and there's already too much of that going on.

Artistic freedom is great, but it should be scrutinized. The problem I see in these discussions is people don't realize a large swathe of shows that intentionally have minority leads (or majority nonwhite casts) do so for an artistic purpose. On the flip side, minorities get disproportionately a small number of roles that have nothing to do with being white. No one is saying a story about white Appalachia needs to have diversity in its casting, but there's no reason the latest summer blockbuster needs to have a white person, yet I imagine >60% of such movies have non-Hispanic whites as leads (the percentage of white people in the country is ~60%).

Of course, I should also state I doubt that most people do this kind of thing intentionally. It's probably more profit motive than anything else -- fear that a nonwhite (male) lead might hurt marketability as well as that most established Hollywood A-listers are white. I don't think they had ScarJo instead of an Asian/Japanese woman as Kusanagi in GitS for any reason aside from profit motive.
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ringfinger
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PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2019 6:50 am    Post subject:

tox wrote:
Fan0Bynum17 wrote:
I tend to lean towards artistic freedom with things like this. I've never seen Hamilton, but it seems like the race of the cast seems to be part of the artistic purpose of it. (bleep) like this only serves to exacerbate racial tensions as well, and there's already too much of that going on.

Artistic freedom is great, but it should be scrutinized. The problem I see in these discussions is people don't realize a large swathe of shows that intentionally have minority leads (or majority nonwhite casts) do so for an artistic purpose. On the flip side, minorities get disproportionately a small number of roles that have nothing to do with being white. No one is saying a story about white Appalachia needs to have diversity in its casting, but there's no reason the latest summer blockbuster needs to have a white person, yet I imagine >60% of such movies have non-Hispanic whites as leads (the percentage of white people in the country is ~60%).

Of course, I should also state I doubt that most people do this kind of thing intentionally. It's probably more profit motive than anything else -- fear that a nonwhite (male) lead might hurt marketability as well as that most established Hollywood A-listers are white. I don't think they had ScarJo instead of an Asian/Japanese woman as Kusanagi in GitS for any reason aside from profit motive.


Why don't people just produce their own art, following whatever guidelines they want in an art piece?

I don't understand the idea that people feel like it is a good thing for them to tell an artist how they ought to create their art.
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gblews
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PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2019 9:11 pm    Post subject:

tox wrote:
gblews wrote:
governator wrote:
https://www.yahoo.com/movies/jordan-peele-says-cant-see-casting-white-dude-lead-one-movies-104449527.html

What you guys think about that?

(ps. he's not discriminating against white actors, he prefers to make ethnic theme movies)

I think he very much is discriminating against white actors, at least with respect to lead roles in his movies. But I don’t think he is doing anything that MANY other H’wood producers are currently doing except perhaps being out front with it. Darren Aronsky, the Coen Bros, and I think, Ridley Scott, have expressed less than racially tolerant views when commenting about why they don’t have racial minorities in their movies. Doesn’t seem to be much of an issue for them.

BTW, Peele doesn’t make “ethnic” movies exclusively. You might say Get Out had some ethnic themes, but the focus of the movie on black people was coincidental. Us definitely was not an “ethnic” story.

Blackness is absolutely integral to Get Out, what movie did you watch?

Same one you saw only it sounds like I paid attention. The white characters state very clearly that the reason they used black people in their little transformations was because they thought black people were “in”. That means that they likely would have used any people who they considered to be “in”. Means their use of black people in their little game was coincidental.

I get that many people saw a movie with a bunch of black people, a racist cop, and some malevolent white people doing harm to black people, and automatically assumed they were seeing “Mississippi Burning” or “Roots”.

It was more subtle than that, bruh, you had to look a bit deeper.
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My read on Us was more socioeconomic and would've worked with a white family, but there's probably also a racial read to it.

It DID work with a white family. There was no “racial read” other than what was apparently in your mind. Did you see the part of the movie with Elizabeth Moss’ family? One of the points Peele was trying to get across by including white people in the situation was that this was not all about race.

But I’ll be damned if some folks didn’t still see the movie being about racial issues. Just because a movie has a predominantly black cast, director, and writer, doesn’t guarantee that the movie is all about race. It helps to go into any movie with an open mind, watch the movie, and let that be your guide as to what the movie is actually “about”.
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tox
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PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2019 10:11 pm    Post subject:

ringfinger wrote:
tox wrote:
Fan0Bynum17 wrote:
I tend to lean towards artistic freedom with things like this. I've never seen Hamilton, but it seems like the race of the cast seems to be part of the artistic purpose of it. (bleep) like this only serves to exacerbate racial tensions as well, and there's already too much of that going on.

Artistic freedom is great, but it should be scrutinized. The problem I see in these discussions is people don't realize a large swathe of shows that intentionally have minority leads (or majority nonwhite casts) do so for an artistic purpose. On the flip side, minorities get disproportionately a small number of roles that have nothing to do with being white. No one is saying a story about white Appalachia needs to have diversity in its casting, but there's no reason the latest summer blockbuster needs to have a white person, yet I imagine >60% of such movies have non-Hispanic whites as leads (the percentage of white people in the country is ~60%).

Of course, I should also state I doubt that most people do this kind of thing intentionally. It's probably more profit motive than anything else -- fear that a nonwhite (male) lead might hurt marketability as well as that most established Hollywood A-listers are white. I don't think they had ScarJo instead of an Asian/Japanese woman as Kusanagi in GitS for any reason aside from profit motive.


Why don't people just produce their own art, following whatever guidelines they want in an art piece?

I don't understand the idea that people feel like it is a good thing for them to tell an artist how they ought to create their art.

If your story requires a white or black or woman or immigrant or straight or gay or trans or whatever lead -- then by all means go for it. However, if you have a generic action blockbuster and you still look to cast a straight white male, why shouldn't that casting choice be scrutinized.

Go back to the Ghost in the Shell argument. Are you really so naive to suggest that the entire writing staff (to say nothing of the production staff) needed Kusanagi to be a white woman like ScarJo for artistic reasons? No, of course that wasn't an artistic decision. It was a financial decision, and so you can't just hide behind artistic freedom as a defense from all criticism.
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