View previous topic :: View next topic |
Author |
Message |
BlackStarMamba Star Player
Joined: 29 May 2018 Posts: 1377
|
Posted: Thu Jun 06, 2019 11:51 am Post subject: We Forget This Is Not LeBron's Team |
|
|
This whole effort to maximize his last year's is stupid. We don't owe LeBron anything.
He knew what he was getting into. If he wanted to win a chip so bad, he should have went to Houston, OKC, or Philly.
When Shaq,MJ went to other teams late in career, the teams weren't trading all young core to "maximize their finals years" for a championship.
You get better through free agency, unless you are a small market. I think the bulls should have kept Lavine, because now Jimmys gone.
Try to sign a good free agent and wait for AD next year. If he doesn't come oh well. There's a lot of players that will make our team better 2019 or 2020 free agency( Vucevic, Butler, Middleton, Klay) ..... (Milsap, Murray, buddy hield, porzingis, Andre Drummond)
No need to try to fast track.a championship. Boston had 3 years of glory with the big 3..to go back to mediocrity for years and had to acquire hella picks to get almost back there. Look at Miami stuck in no man's land. Houston is on that path now too.
The NBA is different now, teams are too heavy but have depth and youth. You are not winning with old Lebron, limpy AD, Uninspired Kyrie with a bunch of role players. Philly's coming, Mil has depth and youth, Toronto if they keep Kawhi has depth and youth, same with Portland, Denver, Boston if they get a better leader.
Long story short just sign 1 max free agent, keep the youth and get some shooters _________________ I got Nothing interesting to put here |
|
Back to top |
|
|
epak Retired Number
Joined: 30 Aug 2005 Posts: 34147
|
Posted: Thu Jun 06, 2019 12:10 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Exactly. We should never build around the best player on the team who happens to be top 5 player in the league.
Also, Shaq and MJ werent top 5 players in the league, which I believe Lebron is. The question becomes, will he be top 5 next year? I guess the hope is, depending on how one feels about AD, that he takes the mantle in 2 years. And a hope that the Lakers get a 2nd rounder in any AD trade and they hit on that pick for the future. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
JamezAmp Star Player
Joined: 25 Jun 2005 Posts: 1788 Location: Scottsdale, AZ
|
Posted: Thu Jun 06, 2019 12:19 pm Post subject: |
|
|
If by MJ, you mean Michael Jordan, Washington traded a young Rip Hamilton for an aging Jerry Stackhouse. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
governator Retired Number
Joined: 28 Jan 2006 Posts: 25092
|
Posted: Thu Jun 06, 2019 12:22 pm Post subject: |
|
|
House Klutch prob have power in Kings Landing (I'm guessing powerful)
House Magic is out
House Pelinka
House Rambii
who has KhaJeannie's ear |
|
Back to top |
|
|
BlackStarMamba Star Player
Joined: 29 May 2018 Posts: 1377
|
Posted: Thu Jun 06, 2019 12:31 pm Post subject: |
|
|
JamezAmp wrote: | If by MJ, you mean Michael Jordan, Washington traded a young Rip Hamilton for an aging Jerry Stackhouse. |
it wasn't to win a championship. and if it was it didn't work, so don't emulate. _________________ I got Nothing interesting to put here |
|
Back to top |
|
|
JamezAmp Star Player
Joined: 25 Jun 2005 Posts: 1788 Location: Scottsdale, AZ
|
Posted: Thu Jun 06, 2019 12:46 pm Post subject: |
|
|
BlackStarMamba wrote: | JamezAmp wrote: | If by MJ, you mean Michael Jordan, Washington traded a young Rip Hamilton for an aging Jerry Stackhouse. |
it wasn't to win a championship. and if it was it didn't work, so don't emulate. |
Yeah, your argument failed. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
BlackStarMamba Star Player
Joined: 29 May 2018 Posts: 1377
|
Posted: Thu Jun 06, 2019 12:51 pm Post subject: |
|
|
JamezAmp wrote: | BlackStarMamba wrote: | JamezAmp wrote: | If by MJ, you mean Michael Jordan, Washington traded a young Rip Hamilton for an aging Jerry Stackhouse. |
it wasn't to win a championship. and if it was it didn't work, so don't emulate. |
Yeah, your argument failed. |
my argument was that the teams were not making moves to maximize the elite players years to win a championship (within a short window)
trading rip away wasn't to win a championship _________________ I got Nothing interesting to put here |
|
Back to top |
|
|
lakersken80 Retired Number
Joined: 12 Aug 2009 Posts: 38792
|
Posted: Thu Jun 06, 2019 12:55 pm Post subject: |
|
|
epak wrote: | Exactly. We should never build around the best player on the team who happens to be top 5 player in the league.
Also, Shaq and MJ werent top 5 players in the league, which I believe Lebron is. The question becomes, will he be top 5 next year? I guess the hope is, depending on how one feels about AD, that he takes the mantle in 2 years. And a hope that the Lakers get a 2nd rounder in any AD trade and they hit on that pick for the future. |
He's got 2 years at most, I know we have him for 3 years, but the last year is a player option.And I definitely wouldn't build around him as he is starting to decline and get injured. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
epak Retired Number
Joined: 30 Aug 2005 Posts: 34147
|
Posted: Thu Jun 06, 2019 1:02 pm Post subject: |
|
|
lakersken80 wrote: | epak wrote: | Exactly. We should never build around the best player on the team who happens to be top 5 player in the league.
Also, Shaq and MJ werent top 5 players in the league, which I believe Lebron is. The question becomes, will he be top 5 next year? I guess the hope is, depending on how one feels about AD, that he takes the mantle in 2 years. And a hope that the Lakers get a 2nd rounder in any AD trade and they hit on that pick for the future. |
He's got 2 years at most, I know we have him for 3 years, but the last year is a player option.And I definitely wouldn't build around him as he is starting to decline and get injured. |
Yep.
At that point it's gotta be the 3rd FA and AD who have to be the focal points. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
youcantguardme Star Player
Joined: 10 Jan 2011 Posts: 1117
|
Posted: Thu Jun 06, 2019 1:05 pm Post subject: |
|
|
A team without multiple stars is never going to be a real contender. Any real stars are going to want input, however they choose to give it, in what the team does. They're stars. During showtime, Magic did it and to a certain extend Kareem. MJ did it in Chicago. Kobe had major input and you could argue that the last two rings were a direct result of his public fit and threat to leave.
I'm not saying the young core is not very talented, in fact BI and Kuzma have the potential to be fantastic role players on a championship team and Lonzo and Hart may also be in that category. The problem is that too many Lakers fans think the young core has a Curry or Dirk or Kawai or a KD and that is far from reality. The #4 is an unknown but the chance of getting a Kobe or LeBron is near zero. I agree you don't trade all four youngsters and the pick or picks for AD because you're left with little. If the Lakers want to contend in the LeBron years they have got to be flexible. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
audioaxes Franchise Player
Joined: 26 Apr 2004 Posts: 12573
|
Posted: Thu Jun 06, 2019 1:25 pm Post subject: |
|
|
its not about appeasing Lebron its about going all in if a championship opportunity presents itself. And Lebron is a Waaaaaay more clear championship window over gambling that our up and down and overall disappointing young core can some how lead us to a championship years down the line.
Also if our young core were as good as some claim they are we would have made the playoffs this year and wouldnt even need to be having these discussions. _________________ (bleep) Kawhi |
|
Back to top |
|
|
activeverb Retired Number
Joined: 17 Jun 2006 Posts: 37470
|
Posted: Thu Jun 06, 2019 1:32 pm Post subject: Re: We Forget This Is Not LeBron's Team |
|
|
BlackStarMamba wrote: | This whole effort to maximize his last year's is stupid. We don't owe LeBron anything. |
The Lakers aren't doing this for Lebron's sake; they're doing it because they think that's what's best for the team. You can agree or disagree with that approach, of course, but nothing the Lakers have done is from some sense of obligation to Lebron. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
BlackStarMamba Star Player
Joined: 29 May 2018 Posts: 1377
|
Posted: Thu Jun 06, 2019 1:37 pm Post subject: |
|
|
youcantguardme wrote: | A team without multiple stars is never going to be a real contender. Any real stars are going to want input, however they choose to give it, in what the team does. They're stars. During showtime, Magic did it and to a certain extend Kareem. MJ did it in Chicago. Kobe had major input and you could argue that the last two rings were a direct result of his public fit and threat to leave.
I'm not saying the young core is not very talented, in fact BI and Kuzma have the potential to be fantastic role players on a championship team and Lonzo and Hart may also be in that category. The problem is that too many Lakers fans think the young core has a Curry or Dirk or Kawai or a KD and that is far from reality. The #4 is an unknown but the chance of getting a Kobe or LeBron is near zero. I agree you don't trade all four youngsters and the pick or picks for AD because you're left with little. If the Lakers want to contend in the LeBron years they have got to be flexible. |
i don't overvalue the players, but hindsight is 50/50 a lot when it comes to player evaluations.
The Warriors kept Draymond, Klay over getting Kevin Love. When they won their 1st championship in 2015 they came over a 1st round exit the year prior. I'm not saying our young guys are Curry, but you never know.
Steph Curry was a former #7 pick and wasn't heralded AT ALL during his 1st 3 years of his career. Did anyone see him becoming a legend, MVP during his first years?
Kawhi benefited from being on a great team, so he showed out during the finals and that's when he was recognized.
The only other champs that came into the league and were known as great players from the start in recent history were KD and Lebron. and KD did it on a stacked team.
Zo and BI are former #2 picks . BI entering his 4th year, Zo 3 years. Both when healthy play pretty well _________________ I got Nothing interesting to put here |
|
Back to top |
|
|
BlackStarMamba Star Player
Joined: 29 May 2018 Posts: 1377
|
Posted: Thu Jun 06, 2019 1:45 pm Post subject: |
|
|
audioaxes wrote: | its not about appeasing Lebron its about going all in if a championship opportunity presents itself. And Lebron is a Waaaaaay more clear championship window over gambling that our up and down and overall disappointing young core can some how lead us to a championship years down the line.
Also if our young core were as good as some claim they are we would have made the playoffs this year and wouldnt even need to be having these discussions. |
You can make that argument. I would say that if they weren't good, the Lakers should have made the playoffs without them. BI missed 20+ games, Lonzo 30+ games. It took 48 wins to make playoffs in west this season.
The Lakers had a chance to make playoffs even when Ingram + Zo were out, with Lebron and didn't so I say they were valuable. _________________ I got Nothing interesting to put here |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Beir32 Star Player
Joined: 16 Feb 2016 Posts: 1710 Location: Western PA
|
Posted: Thu Jun 06, 2019 1:47 pm Post subject: |
|
|
We'll probably find out in the next few months who's team this really is. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Omar Little Moderator
Joined: 02 May 2005 Posts: 90307 Location: Formerly Known As 24
|
Posted: Thu Jun 06, 2019 1:52 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Pretty sure LBJ signed here for a reason, and the team wanted him to attract other free agents and to win. Unless the OP is saying the front office clearly informed LBJ that they were just signing him for name value? _________________ “We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel |
|
Back to top |
|
|
ReaListik Star Player
Joined: 08 Jun 2008 Posts: 6569
|
Posted: Thu Jun 06, 2019 2:07 pm Post subject: |
|
|
LeBron still wants to win and I’m sure the Lakers told him they wanted to help him win titles otherwise he wouldn’t have signed here. Makes no sense that he wouldn’t want to win more titles and nothing he has done or continues to do has shown that he’s in Hollywood mode exclusively. _________________ "We are the goodest." - Shaq ESPN interview |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Sentient Meat Franchise Player
Joined: 04 Jul 2014 Posts: 12978
|
Posted: Thu Jun 06, 2019 2:08 pm Post subject: |
|
|
audioaxes wrote: | its not about appeasing Lebron its about going all in if a championship opportunity presents itself. And Lebron is a Waaaaaay more clear championship window over gambling that our up and down and overall disappointing young core can some how lead us to a championship years down the line.
Also if our young core were as good as some claim they are we would have made the playoffs this year and wouldnt even need to be having these discussions. |
LBJ has one maybe two years of max player quality left.
The kids combined over the next twelve years would provide a solid foundation for another star to thrive... it's possible even one of them can become a star by themselves. But I believe their floor would be a good solid group for one or two stars.
You ask why they didn't make the playoffs... you already know why.
They were betrayed by their hero and captain as well as injured.
It's disingenuous to say that they just weren't good enough. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
kikanga Retired Number
Joined: 15 Sep 2012 Posts: 29354 Location: La La Land
|
Posted: Thu Jun 06, 2019 2:09 pm Post subject: |
|
|
You'd be hard pressed to find someone who talked more crap about pre-Lakers Bron than me. But if you don't try to win with an all-time great on your team. Your making a dumb decision. LBJs don't grow on trees. Even if he is past his prime. _________________ "Every hurt is a lesson, and every lesson makes you better” |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Sentient Meat Franchise Player
Joined: 04 Jul 2014 Posts: 12978
|
Posted: Thu Jun 06, 2019 2:17 pm Post subject: |
|
|
kikanga wrote: | You'd be hard pressed to find someone who talked more crap about pre-Lakers Bron than me. But if you don't try to win with an all-time great on your team. Your making a dumb decision. LBJs don't grow on trees. Even if he is past his prime. |
Isn't that what Magic said... suck it up and be professional?
Maybe that works with people born in the sixties and seventies.
Maybe not so good with post millennials |
|
Back to top |
|
|
RG73 Franchise Player
Joined: 14 Jul 2001 Posts: 11508
|
Posted: Fri Jun 07, 2019 8:13 am Post subject: Re: We Forget This Is Not LeBron's Team |
|
|
BlackStarMamba wrote: | This whole effort to maximize his last year's is stupid. We don't owe LeBron anything.
He knew what he was getting into. If he wanted to win a chip so bad, he should have went to Houston, OKC, or Philly. |
Ummm, the Lakers signed him because they want to win again so bad. Why would you sign him and then decide that you're ok with losing still? If the Lakers wanted to continue losing so badly, why didn't they tell him no thanks, we don't need your services?
Seriously, what team goes out of their way to sign a top talent in the league and then intentionally constructs a roster that doesn't maximize said talent in an effort to continue losing? That makes no sense. I mean, yes, that is exactly what they did last year, but the intent wasn't to lose more, it was simply a misguided attempt to maximize said talent. Likewise, this offseason they will try to maximize Lebron's skill set (hopefully in an appropriate manner). |
|
Back to top |
|
|
LeBronte Jest Star Player
Joined: 24 Nov 2010 Posts: 1236
|
Posted: Fri Jun 07, 2019 8:34 am Post subject: |
|
|
kikanga wrote: | You'd be hard pressed to find someone who talked more crap about pre-Lakers Bron than me. But if you don't try to win with an all-time great on your team. Your making a dumb decision. LBJs don't grow on trees. Even if he is past his prime. |
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
governator Retired Number
Joined: 28 Jan 2006 Posts: 25092
|
Posted: Fri Jun 07, 2019 8:35 am Post subject: |
|
|
This is still a LeBron team whether we like it or not. The LeBron team saw the pushback early in the signing (king of LA graffiti was a good ex) so they’re a lot more ‘quiet’ at doing things but LeBron and his team no doubt can push their weight around in the org |
|
Back to top |
|
|
€H£M£$TR¥ Star Player
Joined: 03 Apr 2017 Posts: 3782
|
Posted: Fri Jun 07, 2019 8:39 am Post subject: |
|
|
You may get some snarky remarks, but I completely agree. If you’re the best player in the world, you make any team the best team. Done with super teams. The aftermath of a superteam is a depleted franchise that takes years to recover from. Build something sustainable. Gambling is for losers. _________________ DEAR BASKETBALL |
|
Back to top |
|
|
LandsbergerRules Franchise Player
Joined: 29 Aug 2004 Posts: 11197 Location: The Other Perspective
|
Posted: Fri Jun 07, 2019 9:28 am Post subject: |
|
|
kikanga wrote: | You'd be hard pressed to find someone who talked more crap about pre-Lakers Bron than me. But if you don't try to win with an all-time great on your team. Your making a dumb decision. LBJs don't grow on trees. Even if he is past his prime. |
_________________ "Chick lived and breathed Lakers basketball…but he was also fair and objective and called every game the way it was played."
-from Chick: His Unpublished Memoirs and the Memories of Those Who Knew Him |
|
Back to top |
|
|
|