Official: KD with Achilles Injury
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LAII
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 12:29 pm    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
RJ_LA wrote:
Then I'll say it: the Warriors pressured KD to come back, causing re-injury and costing him the rest of his career.

I wasn't surprised when he went down, as I'm sure many felt the same. Horrible treatment from an org pressured to win now. In the end it was KD's choice, but damn, he should have looked across the court at Kawhi and asked himself if the medical staff had his best interest.

BigBallerBrand wrote:
GSW better give KD a super max contract to compensate for this injury. I'm not saying they pressured him to go out there today before he was ready, but KD risked his entire career tonight and hopefully GSW shows appreciation of that


KD makes $30 mil a year, the big stars in the league have their own medical people. KD does and they interact with the Warrior medical staff. If they had thought that he shouldn’t play, he wouldn’t have played. The specialists that most NBA teams use are with medical groups that are tops in the US. The Lakers use Kerlan Jobe and they are highly regarded.


My sister is a doctor and minored in sports medicine (she was the Anteaters trainer in College.) She thought the timetable was unbelievable. He is cleared to practice and dropped into the NBA Finals game 5 the same day? Please.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 12:36 pm    Post subject:

oaktown_dimond wrote:
i may be remembering this incorrectly, but didn't Kobe have an MRI the same night as the Achilles tear. and had surgery like on the next day? as in the longer you wait, the worse the risk.

would KD travel to NYC with a torn Achilles? i'd think he' already be on the operating table if it was a full tear?



Kobe was home, in Los Angeles, and had access to the best doctors in the world.

KD was in Toronto, home of socialized medicine.

He was never going to have Achilles surgery in Canada.


(But yes, the quick surgery for Kobe was to help reduce scar tissue, per reports at the time).
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 12:38 pm    Post subject:

Nash Vegas wrote:
Windhorst saying KD still likely leaving the Warriors.

Knicks and Nets will still offfer KD 4-year max contract.



Have fun with that.

So, who wants to jump on board to drag a team along while waiting for KD to (hopefully) heal?
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 12:44 pm    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
governator wrote:
LKA wrote:
King Randle wrote:
Players should run away from the Warriors. That was an achilles injury from the get go. When KD said he thought someone kicked him originally, just like Kobe...it was obvious. KD should have never been cleared and the Warrior doctors have some explaining to do.


Or he had a calf strain originally... that didn't fully heal...


that's worse, if the team docs still cleared him without knowing fully if the injury has healed


If athletes waited until an injury was completely healed to return then most would hardly see the field. Should they have been holding Steph out until his injury heals? Or Klay. Or Kawhi?


Not all injuries are the same, in the case of KD he had a lower calf strain, which may lead to an achilles injury. This is something that requires full healing or it may turn into something worse. If you don't know a complete achilles tear means most players will play about two years and call it a career. Even with the advances in surgery the mobility and athleticism will never be the same. I personally think this was a partial tear of the achilles simply because he was able to walk somewhat and I did not see a full collapse of the calf. The MRI will tell the whole story.
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Stumpy25
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 12:48 pm    Post subject:

LAII wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
RJ_LA wrote:
Then I'll say it: the Warriors pressured KD to come back, causing re-injury and costing him the rest of his career.

I wasn't surprised when he went down, as I'm sure many felt the same. Horrible treatment from an org pressured to win now. In the end it was KD's choice, but damn, he should have looked across the court at Kawhi and asked himself if the medical staff had his best interest.

BigBallerBrand wrote:
GSW better give KD a super max contract to compensate for this injury. I'm not saying they pressured him to go out there today before he was ready, but KD risked his entire career tonight and hopefully GSW shows appreciation of that


KD makes $30 mil a year, the big stars in the league have their own medical people. KD does and they interact with the Warrior medical staff. If they had thought that he shouldn’t play, he wouldn’t have played. The specialists that most NBA teams use are with medical groups that are tops in the US. The Lakers use Kerlan Jobe and they are highly regarded.


My sister is a doctor and minored in sports medicine (she was the Anteaters trainer in College.) She thought the timetable was unbelievable. He is cleared to practice and dropped into the NBA Finals game 5 the same day? Please.


I agree with your sister, this was a flip of a coin with regards to a career ending decision. It was totally wrong to let him play. Let's hope it's not a complete tear although he may still require surgery his chances for a full recovery are better. AD actually had a warning it's too bad Kobe did not.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 12:52 pm    Post subject:

Stumpy25 wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
governator wrote:
LKA wrote:
King Randle wrote:
Players should run away from the Warriors. That was an achilles injury from the get go. When KD said he thought someone kicked him originally, just like Kobe...it was obvious. KD should have never been cleared and the Warrior doctors have some explaining to do.


Or he had a calf strain originally... that didn't fully heal...


that's worse, if the team docs still cleared him without knowing fully if the injury has healed


If athletes waited until an injury was completely healed to return then most would hardly see the field. Should they have been holding Steph out until his injury heals? Or Klay. Or Kawhi?


Not all injuries are the same, in the case of KD he had a lower calf strain, which may lead to an achilles injury. This is something that requires full healing or it may turn into something worse. If you don't know a complete achilles tear means most players will play about two years and call it a career. Even with the advances in surgery the mobility and athleticism will never be the same. I personally think this was a partial tear of the achilles simply because he was able to walk somewhat and I did not see a full collapse of the calf. The MRI will tell the whole story.


That's a good point. The fact that he was able to walk was something DRs brought up on twitter. There's not much data on athletes with partial tears, but I think the prognosis is much better. The timetable for recovery is around 3-4 months.
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The Lebrons
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 12:56 pm    Post subject:

It seemed obvious his injury was related to his calf injury. There's people who think they aren't related?? He just happened to tear his Achilles (extremely rare injury) a month after a calf strain in the same leg??
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 12:59 pm    Post subject:

IMO there should be a lot of blame on the coaching staff for letting him play that many minutes right off.. wtf?.. I, along with the few I was watching it with all were extremely surprised how long they were leaving him in. I get he was lighting it up but he had just missed 5-6 weeks straight, nowhere near full health and didn't even look right in practice so with that knowledge they play him nearly every minute until the injury happens. That's what the coaching staff gets payed for, you cant just let the athlete fully make decisions, especially when so much pride is on the line.. same thing happened to Kobe.

At the end of the day KD is his own man and made his decisions but they def. could have steered him much better then they did.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 1:05 pm    Post subject:

Quote:
There’s this word that we use in poker: “resulting.” It’s a really important word. You can think about it as creating too tight a relationship between the quality of the outcome and the quality of the decision. You can’t use outcome quality as a perfect signal of decision quality, not with a small sample size anyway. I mean, certainly, if someone has gotten in 15 car accidents in the last year, I can certainly work backward from the outcome quality to their decision quality. But one accident doesn’t tell me much.


This is all I can think of when it comes to the KD injury. Klay was also hurt. Klay also came back too early. But he's been fine so far. No one gripes about that. If he did get hurt, people would blame the Warriors. If KD didn't get hurt they would not question the decision. But the chips landed a certain way - the way that confirms a lot of people "theories" - so now everyone know better than an entire medical staff and Kevin Durant himself.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 1:06 pm    Post subject:

Stumpy25 wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
governator wrote:
LKA wrote:
King Randle wrote:
Players should run away from the Warriors. That was an achilles injury from the get go. When KD said he thought someone kicked him originally, just like Kobe...it was obvious. KD should have never been cleared and the Warrior doctors have some explaining to do.


Or he had a calf strain originally... that didn't fully heal...


that's worse, if the team docs still cleared him without knowing fully if the injury has healed


If athletes waited until an injury was completely healed to return then most would hardly see the field. Should they have been holding Steph out until his injury heals? Or Klay. Or Kawhi?


Not all injuries are the same, in the case of KD he had a lower calf strain, which may lead to an achilles injury. This is something that requires full healing or it may turn into something worse. If you don't know a complete achilles tear means most players will play about two years and call it a career. Even with the advances in surgery the mobility and athleticism will never be the same. I personally think this was a partial tear of the achilles simply because he was able to walk somewhat and I did not see a full collapse of the calf. The MRI will tell the whole story.


Kobe walked off on a full tear, so who knows. Lucky for KD it's on his right side. His perimeter defense will be affected the most, but he could return to near full strength, provided he avoids the additional injuries that derailed Kobe's career.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 1:19 pm    Post subject:

UKUGA wrote:

Kobe was home, in Los Angeles, and had access to the best doctors in the world.

KD was in Toronto, home of socialized medicine.

He was never going to have Achilles surgery in Canada.


(But yes, the quick surgery for Kobe was to help reduce scar tissue, per reports at the time).


So ignoring that Canada, and something like 3 dozen other countries (all of which have socialized medicine) typically rank higher than the US in just about all measures of health care, lets not pretend like someone in Canada who is worthy over $100 million is going to use government health care for something critical. He wasn't going to have surgery in Toronto because he is a short flight from some of the best surgeons in the US, with whom he and his network are familiar. I am sure there are plenty of capable sports surgeons in Toronto who could do a fine job at a moment's notice for an individual of Durant's net worth. But given that the rumors were that he was considering moving to NY, he probably has referrals there, and he has a home there already, so why not take the short flight, and recuperate in his condo there? The flight back to California is much longer. So this is all completely immaterial to socialized medicine and has everything to do with convenience and familiarity.
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LAL1947
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 1:25 pm    Post subject:

I think this Whitlock segment about KD's injury and the decision to play is a good, fair one that addresses both sides (KD + GSW).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWg945mkJS0

Bonus... KD's pre-game dance moves at 1:55.


Last edited by LAL1947 on Tue Jun 11, 2019 1:42 pm; edited 2 times in total
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KindCrippler2000
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 1:27 pm    Post subject:

loslakersss wrote:
Quote:
There’s this word that we use in poker: “resulting.” It’s a really important word. You can think about it as creating too tight a relationship between the quality of the outcome and the quality of the decision. You can’t use outcome quality as a perfect signal of decision quality, not with a small sample size anyway. I mean, certainly, if someone has gotten in 15 car accidents in the last year, I can certainly work backward from the outcome quality to their decision quality. But one accident doesn’t tell me much.


This is all I can think of when it comes to the KD injury. Klay was also hurt. Klay also came back too early. But he's been fine so far. No one gripes about that. If he did get hurt, people would blame the Warriors. If KD didn't get hurt they would not question the decision. But the chips landed a certain way - the way that confirms a lot of people "theories" - so now everyone know better than an entire medical staff and Kevin Durant himself.


Applies and oranges, my friend. Klay's was a hamstring issue. Health permitting, players can push through those with some discomfort and not suffer career alterations. Calf injuries are complex because of their proximity to the achilles tendon. Many specialists were pointing this out when they cleared Durant to play. One doctor predicted he would run into achilles issues.

Second and third opinions are extremely valuable in these scenarios. The medical staff dropped the ball on this one IMO. Achilles injuries are some of the worst in sports. This shouldn't have happened. Bob Myers is going to clean house if I had to guess.

A dum-dum with a medical degree is still a dum-dum. I wish it weren't true, but I've had enough experience with "renowned" doctors and medical professionals to say this.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 1:30 pm    Post subject:

Even before the injury I was thinking the same thing. What the hell were they thinking playing him 12 straight minutes!?

hype wrote:
IMO there should be a lot of blame on the coaching staff for letting him play that many minutes right off.. wtf?.. I, along with the few I was watching it with all were extremely surprised how long they were leaving him in. I get he was lighting it up but he had just missed 5-6 weeks straight, nowhere near full health and didn't even look right in practice so with that knowledge they play him nearly every minute until the injury happens. That's what the coaching staff gets payed for, you cant just let the athlete fully make decisions, especially when so much pride is on the line.. same thing happened to Kobe.

At the end of the day KD is his own man and made his decisions but they def. could have steered him much better then they did.
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LAL1947
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 1:30 pm    Post subject:

KindCrippler2000 wrote:

Applies and oranges, my friend. Klay's was a hamstring issue. Health permitting, players can push through those with some discomfort and not suffer career alterations. Calf injuries are complex because of their proximity to the achilles tendon. Many specialists were pointing this out when they cleared Durant to play. One doctor predicted he would run into achilles issues.

Second and third opinions are extremely valuable in these scenarios. The medical staff dropped the ball on this one IMO. Achilles injuries are some of the worst in sports. This shouldn't have happened. Bob Myers is going to clean house if I had to guess.

A dum-dum with a medical degree is still a dum-dum. I wish it weren't true, but I've had enough experience with "renowned" doctors and medical professionals to say this.

If KD has his own medical team and is paying them big bucks for their services and opinions, as someone suggested above... then wouldn't that be a 2nd opinion in addition to the Warriors' own medical team?

Totally agreed with your last paragraph btw.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 1:38 pm    Post subject:

LAL1947 wrote:
KindCrippler2000 wrote:

Applies and oranges, my friend. Klay's was a hamstring issue. Health permitting, players can push through those with some discomfort and not suffer career alterations. Calf injuries are complex because of their proximity to the achilles tendon. Many specialists were pointing this out when they cleared Durant to play. One doctor predicted he would run into achilles issues.

Second and third opinions are extremely valuable in these scenarios. The medical staff dropped the ball on this one IMO. Achilles injuries are some of the worst in sports. This shouldn't have happened. Bob Myers is going to clean house if I had to guess.

A dum-dum with a medical degree is still a dum-dum. I wish it weren't true, but I've had enough experience with "renowned" doctors and medical professionals to say this.

If KD has his own medical team and is paying them big bucks for their services and opinions, as someone suggested above... then wouldn't that be a 2nd opinion in addition to the Warriors' own medical team?

Totally agreed with your last paragraph btw.


That was a good point. I guess we'll have to wait for the dust to clear to know who suggested what/why and whether both medical teams were in agreement or not.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 1:41 pm    Post subject:

Praying for his full recovery.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 3:19 pm    Post subject:

UKUGA wrote:
Nash Vegas wrote:
Windhorst saying KD still likely leaving the Warriors.

Knicks and Nets will still offfer KD 4-year max contract.



Have fun with that.

So, who wants to jump on board to drag a team along while waiting for KD to (hopefully) heal?


I so hope the Knicks do it. That would be such a perfect Knicks move.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 3:34 pm    Post subject:

Bol wrote:
UKUGA wrote:
Nash Vegas wrote:
Windhorst saying KD still likely leaving the Warriors.

Knicks and Nets will still offfer KD 4-year max contract.



Have fun with that.

So, who wants to jump on board to drag a team along while waiting for KD to (hopefully) heal?


I so hope the Knicks do it. That would be such a perfect Knicks move.


might not be too bad an idea for the knicks. Let Mitchell, RJ and DSJ fire away and still tank (no need to sign 1 yr journey man, just sign KD) then next summer they have another top-3 pick, their kids, a max FA space and KD
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 3:55 pm    Post subject:

Props to Durant for playing. I know if I was in his shoes, if I could walk I'd have went out there as well. You only get to the nba finals so many times and tomorrow isn't promised to any of us. He's made his money already, loved that he went out there and tried to help his team like that.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 3:59 pm    Post subject:

Stumpy25 wrote:
LAII wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
RJ_LA wrote:
Then I'll say it: the Warriors pressured KD to come back, causing re-injury and costing him the rest of his career.

I wasn't surprised when he went down, as I'm sure many felt the same. Horrible treatment from an org pressured to win now. In the end it was KD's choice, but damn, he should have looked across the court at Kawhi and asked himself if the medical staff had his best interest.

BigBallerBrand wrote:
GSW better give KD a super max contract to compensate for this injury. I'm not saying they pressured him to go out there today before he was ready, but KD risked his entire career tonight and hopefully GSW shows appreciation of that


KD makes $30 mil a year, the big stars in the league have their own medical people. KD does and they interact with the Warrior medical staff. If they had thought that he shouldn’t play, he wouldn’t have played. The specialists that most NBA teams use are with medical groups that are tops in the US. The Lakers use Kerlan Jobe and they are highly regarded.


My sister is a doctor and minored in sports medicine (she was the Anteaters trainer in College.) She thought the timetable was unbelievable. He is cleared to practice and dropped into the NBA Finals game 5 the same day? Please.


I agree with your sister, this was a flip of a coin with regards to a career ending decision. It was totally wrong to let him play. Let's hope it's not a complete tear although he may still require surgery his chances for a full recovery are better. AD actually had a warning it's too bad Kobe did not.


Disagree, if Durant wants to play he absolutely should be allowed to play. So what if he isn't the player he was before, that risk is worth it to some. He has a long life after basketball ahead of him, nothing wrong him trying to go out there. It's not like he's in a wheelchair the rest of his life.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 5:39 pm    Post subject:

Don't cry for me Argentina, I mean Oakland, the Lakers lost in the Finals two years in a row when Magic got injured..

(I feel bad for the guy, but not the team)
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 5:55 pm    Post subject:

LAII wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
Don’t see the need for the blame game here.

KD wanted to play, his team wanted him to play, he got hurt. It happens. Its sports.


The timeline looks like this:

KD's not ready.
KD's not ready.
Klay is hurt.. Oh let's hold him out out of abundance of caution. EVEN THOUGH HE WANTS TO PLAY! We still have more games to play.
KD practiced 1 on 1 and looked bad.
Oh NO! We are facing elimination.
Grumble Grumble.. Why is KD taking so long..? Grumble...
Day of = KD is cleared to practice.
KD plays 12 of 14 minutes until he blows out his Achilles.

KD goes from a bad 1 on 1 practice, skips 3 on 3, skips scrimmages, is cleared to practice and plays that night until his leg falls off. What am I missing?


That seems about right. But KD wanted to play. You can’t control for everything. It’s an unfortunate thing no doubt, just dont get the need for the blame game even tho I get it on the internet thats what we do.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 6:23 pm    Post subject:

ringfinger wrote:
That seems about right. But KD wanted to play. You can’t control for everything. It’s an unfortunate thing no doubt, just dont get the need for the blame game even tho I get it on the internet thats what we do.


Blame game is played all the time when front offices take risks and they backfire. Don't know why this should be any different. Magic got torched to no end for taking a risk and striking out in free agency and trades.

Sure KD wanted to play. Klay wanted to play game 3. But GS brass wouldn't let him. So the whole, "they couldn't control KD" narrative is BS. They literally held out a guy who wanted to play 2 games prior.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 6:31 pm    Post subject:

idk i think a lot of people are def. going overboard with the blame game like they always love to do but them playing him 12 of 14 minutes was pretty idiotic imo.. with all things considered you have to be smarter then that as a head coach and have some kind of minute restriction when he is clearly still hurt and hasnt played in well over a month. kd might have wanted to stay in but you pull him out anyways, he was going on tons of adrenaline im sure early on.

the whole boycotting the warriors and calling for people to be fired is def. overkill though for sure. it's the finals, no guarantee kd will ever see it again but they could have had a better plan then playing him heavy minutes right out the gate which is my only real issue.
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