NCAA Threatens to Ban California Schools
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 7:11 pm    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:

yeah a girl named Bubba is just too awesome


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 7:15 pm    Post subject:

DaMuleRules wrote:
adkindo wrote:
lakersken80 wrote:
Other than college football, all the schools can form a single California college league and they would be fine. Theres so many D1 schools in California.


I hear you, but what would be the point? To win the California Championship? Almost every 4 and 5 Star would flee the state to seek national recognition. Let's be honest....one side or the other will blink...there is no reality where UCLA and USC are not playing revenue sports at the highest national level.


Obviously the NCAA can't sit back and let a group of schools set their own rules in regards to allowing players to monetize their likenesses. But it's really time that the NCAA caught up with today's world and quit trying to squash kids under their thumb while they make all the money off of those kids.


I have a little different view. I am fine with the NCAA remaining the amateur model where only education, room and board are offered. I also think the professional leagues should allow athletes to turn pro when they feel ready. I believe too many people blame the NCAA for "forcing" young athletes to play without compensation....but it is the professional leagues that are making that decision.

The NCAA basically is a voluntary offer...no different than many prestigious non-paid internships that kids at elite schools compete for every year. The NCAA does not have 5% of the infrastructure it would take to monitor and control players getting compensation for their likeness.....they cant even monitor and control the big issues at member schools as a whole....so it would just turn into the wild west of kids getting paid large sums beyond their likeness value to help recruiting, and without going into detail i think it would be a mess for the student athletes themselves.

I get everyone has different opinions, and I respect that, but while I do not claim the NCAA has not often taken actions that deserved criticism....I think they are blamed far more often than they are actually in control or at fault.

I look at this way...I played college sports and there were a lot of positives that came from that experience, but i was never going to be a professional. I knew that before I ever arrived on campus. I think it would be poison in a locker room if the QB just got $50K for filming a car dealership commercial....I mean how is his linemen going to feel about that because you know they are never getting those offers no matter how good they are on the field. Or flip that example with someone like UCLA's Rachel Garcia...a superstar softball player on a National Champion....but she is never going to get a fraction of what the UCLA PG will get during a losing season. I think it becomes very complicated very fast.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 10:42 am    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:
adkindo wrote:
lakersken80 wrote:
Other than college football, all the schools can form a single California college league and they would be fine. Theres so many D1 schools in California.


I hear you, but what would be the point? To win the California Championship? Almost every 4 and 5 Star would flee the state to seek national recognition. Let's be honest....one side or the other will blink...there is no reality where UCLA and USC are not playing revenue sports at the highest national level.


Obviously the NCAA can't sit back and let a group of schools set their own rules in regards to allowing players to monetize their likenesses. But it's really time that the NCAA caught up with today's world and quit trying to squash kids under their thumb while they make all the money off of those kids.


I have a little different view. I am fine with the NCAA remaining the amateur model where only education, room and board are offered. I also think the professional leagues should allow athletes to turn pro when they feel ready. I believe too many people blame the NCAA for "forcing" young athletes to play without compensation....but it is the professional leagues that are making that decision.

The NCAA basically is a voluntary offer...no different than many prestigious non-paid internships that kids at elite schools compete for every year. The NCAA does not have 5% of the infrastructure it would take to monitor and control players getting compensation for their likeness.....they cant even monitor and control the big issues at member schools as a whole....so it would just turn into the wild west of kids getting paid large sums beyond their likeness value to help recruiting, and without going into detail i think it would be a mess for the student athletes themselves.

I get everyone has different opinions, and I respect that, but while I do not claim the NCAA has not often taken actions that deserved criticism....I think they are blamed far more often than they are actually in control or at fault.

I look at this way...I played college sports and there were a lot of positives that came from that experience, but i was never going to be a professional. I knew that before I ever arrived on campus. I think it would be poison in a locker room if the QB just got $50K for filming a car dealership commercial....I mean how is his linemen going to feel about that because you know they are never getting those offers no matter how good they are on the field. Or flip that example with someone like UCLA's Rachel Garcia...a superstar softball player on a National Champion....but she is never going to get a fraction of what the UCLA PG will get during a losing season. I think it becomes very complicated very fast.


I don't have the solution, but I'm not sure we need to worry what the QB's linemen's feelings. Nobody cares about the students that have to pay tuition while the scrub at the end of the bench who never sees the field gets priority during every campus process and some portion of a scholarship. Life isn't equal.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 11:32 am    Post subject:

LakersRGolden wrote:
adkindo wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:
adkindo wrote:
lakersken80 wrote:
Other than college football, all the schools can form a single California college league and they would be fine. Theres so many D1 schools in California.


I hear you, but what would be the point? To win the California Championship? Almost every 4 and 5 Star would flee the state to seek national recognition. Let's be honest....one side or the other will blink...there is no reality where UCLA and USC are not playing revenue sports at the highest national level.


Obviously the NCAA can't sit back and let a group of schools set their own rules in regards to allowing players to monetize their likenesses. But it's really time that the NCAA caught up with today's world and quit trying to squash kids under their thumb while they make all the money off of those kids.


I have a little different view. I am fine with the NCAA remaining the amateur model where only education, room and board are offered. I also think the professional leagues should allow athletes to turn pro when they feel ready. I believe too many people blame the NCAA for "forcing" young athletes to play without compensation....but it is the professional leagues that are making that decision.

The NCAA basically is a voluntary offer...no different than many prestigious non-paid internships that kids at elite schools compete for every year. The NCAA does not have 5% of the infrastructure it would take to monitor and control players getting compensation for their likeness.....they cant even monitor and control the big issues at member schools as a whole....so it would just turn into the wild west of kids getting paid large sums beyond their likeness value to help recruiting, and without going into detail i think it would be a mess for the student athletes themselves.

I get everyone has different opinions, and I respect that, but while I do not claim the NCAA has not often taken actions that deserved criticism....I think they are blamed far more often than they are actually in control or at fault.

I look at this way...I played college sports and there were a lot of positives that came from that experience, but i was never going to be a professional. I knew that before I ever arrived on campus. I think it would be poison in a locker room if the QB just got $50K for filming a car dealership commercial....I mean how is his linemen going to feel about that because you know they are never getting those offers no matter how good they are on the field. Or flip that example with someone like UCLA's Rachel Garcia...a superstar softball player on a National Champion....but she is never going to get a fraction of what the UCLA PG will get during a losing season. I think it becomes very complicated very fast.


I don't have the solution, but I'm not sure we need to worry what the QB's linemen's feelings. Nobody cares about the students that have to pay tuition while the scrub at the end of the bench who never sees the field gets priority during every campus process and some portion of a scholarship. Life isn't equal.


Yep, and I wouldn't be surprised if some athletic programs will face the chopping block if the NCAA goes thru with this in the vain attempt to punish the universities. I remember there used to be a large number of Cal State's that had college football programs. Most of them are gone now, they were cut during a period from the 70's to early 90's. When faced with the soaring costs of a university education versus the costs of fielding an athletic program, the sports programs will be the first to go, especially if that university doesn't have a big time revenue generating NCAA football program.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 7:31 pm    Post subject:

lakersken80 wrote:
LakersRGolden wrote:
adkindo wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:
adkindo wrote:
lakersken80 wrote:
Other than college football, all the schools can form a single California college league and they would be fine. Theres so many D1 schools in California.


I hear you, but what would be the point? To win the California Championship? Almost every 4 and 5 Star would flee the state to seek national recognition. Let's be honest....one side or the other will blink...there is no reality where UCLA and USC are not playing revenue sports at the highest national level.


Obviously the NCAA can't sit back and let a group of schools set their own rules in regards to allowing players to monetize their likenesses. But it's really time that the NCAA caught up with today's world and quit trying to squash kids under their thumb while they make all the money off of those kids.


I have a little different view. I am fine with the NCAA remaining the amateur model where only education, room and board are offered. I also think the professional leagues should allow athletes to turn pro when they feel ready. I believe too many people blame the NCAA for "forcing" young athletes to play without compensation....but it is the professional leagues that are making that decision.

The NCAA basically is a voluntary offer...no different than many prestigious non-paid internships that kids at elite schools compete for every year. The NCAA does not have 5% of the infrastructure it would take to monitor and control players getting compensation for their likeness.....they cant even monitor and control the big issues at member schools as a whole....so it would just turn into the wild west of kids getting paid large sums beyond their likeness value to help recruiting, and without going into detail i think it would be a mess for the student athletes themselves.

I get everyone has different opinions, and I respect that, but while I do not claim the NCAA has not often taken actions that deserved criticism....I think they are blamed far more often than they are actually in control or at fault.

I look at this way...I played college sports and there were a lot of positives that came from that experience, but i was never going to be a professional. I knew that before I ever arrived on campus. I think it would be poison in a locker room if the QB just got $50K for filming a car dealership commercial....I mean how is his linemen going to feel about that because you know they are never getting those offers no matter how good they are on the field. Or flip that example with someone like UCLA's Rachel Garcia...a superstar softball player on a National Champion....but she is never going to get a fraction of what the UCLA PG will get during a losing season. I think it becomes very complicated very fast.


I don't have the solution, but I'm not sure we need to worry what the QB's linemen's feelings. Nobody cares about the students that have to pay tuition while the scrub at the end of the bench who never sees the field gets priority during every campus process and some portion of a scholarship. Life isn't equal.


Yep, and I wouldn't be surprised if some athletic programs will face the chopping block if the NCAA goes thru with this in the vain attempt to punish the universities. I remember there used to be a large number of Cal State's that had college football programs. Most of them are gone now, they were cut during a period from the 70's to early 90's. When faced with the soaring costs of a university education versus the costs of fielding an athletic program, the sports programs will be the first to go, especially if that university doesn't have a big time revenue generating NCAA football program.


I am not sure my example with the linemen and QB was taken within context....we have nothing to do with it, but the QB better care. That is somewhere between 50 and 1000 on the list of problems introducing compensation into college athletics would present.....but I brought it up as how that would work within the locker room. Programs would be shuttered and the biggest losers would be the student athletes who then have less opportunity.

The ironic part is that it is California who is pushing this agenda because large schools in the state already have a reputation for spending less on their revenue programs compared to other P5 programs. I am not sure that is a game they wish to get into with schools like Alabama and Texas.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 8:27 am    Post subject:

NCAA sends letter to California governor, urging him to veto bill that would allow college athletes to be paid

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The 72-0 sweep vote Monday evening by California's State Assembly on a bill that would give protection -- and liberation -- to student-athletes in that state to earn money off their name, image and likeness has prompted a pressing response from the NCAA to California Gov. Gavin Newsom.

On Wednesday morning the NCAA publicly released its 327-word letter that was also sent directly to Newsom in advance of the bill being placed in Newsom's hands for approval or veto asking him to reject the measure. The Assembly Appropriations Committee in California's Senate is expected to vote in favor of SB 206 -- also known as the Fair Pay to Play Act -- this week and from there all it would need to be enacted into law is Newsom's signature of approval.

If that happens, the law would take effect Jan. 1, 2023.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 8:54 am    Post subject:

lakersken80 wrote:
You know how much money the NCAA would lose if they don't have California schools?


Considering that the top football schools are in the South and top basketball schools are in the East, probably not much. The games would still be broadcast here, advertising revenue wouldn’t likely change much.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 9:20 am    Post subject:

Finally, somebody the NCAA can't push around.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 9:30 am    Post subject:

lakersken80 wrote:
Finally, somebody the NCAA can't push around.


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Aeneas Hunter
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 9:38 am    Post subject:

I find it amusing that the NCAA throws out rhetoric about "half a million student athletes." Oh, yeah, those softball players for the Pomona-Pitzer Sagehens are deeply concerned about this.
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ringfinger
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 11:05 am    Post subject:

Get rid of college sports altogether (other than intramural type stuff).
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 1:43 pm    Post subject:

ringfinger wrote:
Get rid of college sports altogether (other than intramural type stuff).


Won't happen theres too much money to be made. I would think that they are going to attempt to monetize the less popular sports in the future.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 4:55 pm    Post subject: Re: NCAA Threatens to Ban California Schools

adkindo wrote:
I am not sure if the state passed the law, if the schools would have the choice to allow or not allow because I would assume if forced to allow compensation, they would be removed from their conferences (PAC12, MW, est.). Maybe the final law is altered to allow the schools, but not force them....in which it would mostly be ceremonial legislation because none of the Division I schools would adopt the law.


It doesn't sound like you understand what the proposed law is. It allows players to make money off of their likeness.

Meaning, players can get paid for advertising their likeness. This has nothing to do with schools having to compensate players.

So there is no "choice to allow or not allow".

CA schools can not prohibit players from advertising their likeness. That's the law.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 7:21 pm    Post subject: Re: NCAA Threatens to Ban California Schools

LongBeachPoly wrote:
adkindo wrote:
I am not sure if the state passed the law, if the schools would have the choice to allow or not allow because I would assume if forced to allow compensation, they would be removed from their conferences (PAC12, MW, est.). Maybe the final law is altered to allow the schools, but not force them....in which it would mostly be ceremonial legislation because none of the Division I schools would adopt the law.


It doesn't sound like you understand what the proposed law is. It allows players to make money off of their likeness.

Meaning, players can get paid for advertising their likeness. This has nothing to do with schools having to compensate players.

So there is no "choice to allow or not allow".
.

CA schools can not prohibit players from advertising their likeness. That's the law.



So when a booster offers a 5 star recruit 6 figures to come down to his car dealership a couple times and sign autographs, do you think the rest of the NCAA will be down with that? Maybe not
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 7:27 pm    Post subject:

I'm sure the NCAA will move to ban any potential sponsor from working with any school under their "jurisdiction". That way if a local Chevy dealership wants to sponsor the athlete, Chevy couldn't ever be a sponsor with the NCAA. That would deter some large corporations from paying the athletes.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 7:46 pm    Post subject: Re: NCAA Threatens to Ban California Schools

ExPatLkrFan wrote:
So when a booster offers a 5 star recruit 6 figures to come down to his car dealership a couple times and sign autographs, do you think the rest of the NCAA will be down with that? Maybe not


Of course not. But the better question is: Why not? Here is a report written by Senator Chris Murphy of Connecticut. He lays out the facts concerning the Power 5 conferences in graphic detail:

https://www.murphy.senate.gov/download/madness-inc

At the Power 5 level, the revenue sports are an industry, not an offshoot of the academic mission of the schools. People will point to the non-revenue sports and the smaller schools (including my alma mater), but that is not what this is about. We need to accept that high level college sports are not what they used to be, and that there is no turning back. As an alumnus of a small school, I have been appalled by the extent to which the revenue sports have come to run the Power 5 schools, not vice versa.

So a booster pays Johnny Fivestar a bunch of money to play at Big State U. So what? If the kid can command that much money, he deserves it. The other schools would be opposed to it because their own boosters would need to start coughing up the cash. That's just an application of free market capitalism, twisted as it may be.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 7:48 pm    Post subject: Re: NCAA Threatens to Ban California Schools

LongBeachPoly wrote:
adkindo wrote:
I am not sure if the state passed the law, if the schools would have the choice to allow or not allow because I would assume if forced to allow compensation, they would be removed from their conferences (PAC12, MW, est.). Maybe the final law is altered to allow the schools, but not force them....in which it would mostly be ceremonial legislation because none of the Division I schools would adopt the law.


It doesn't sound like you understand what the proposed law is. It allows players to make money off of their likeness.

Meaning, players can get paid for advertising their likeness. This has nothing to do with schools having to compensate players.

So there is no "choice to allow or not allow".

CA schools can not prohibit players from advertising their likeness. That's the law.


I am actually fairly familiar with the law as it is written. The post that you responded to was written before it passed both chambers...hence my post suggested they may alter language in the bill to allow the schools to allow or not allow. Now that the bill's final version has been sent to the Governor, we know that it did not include the loophole suggested.

Still the California legislation can pass any law for their state they wish, but it will not prevent the NCAA ruling that any athlete that does accept compensation for their likeness to be ineligible to compete in NCAA events. I do not know how this ends, but I have said before I would bet on some level of compromise. That said, I do think the California legislature is playing with fire that could result in significantly negative results for their constituents.

Finally, as I read in an article recently, who is the legislature representing with this legislation. All of their state universities have spoke out against the legislation, polling suggests college fans do not support the legislation (especially college football fans), and while the NFL/NBA has not taken a position, it has been reported that off the record the owners are overwhelmingly against the legislation. As I have said before, the media has led a gullible public into believing the NCAA is a boogeyman setting around on piles of cash. It simply is not true....the NCAA is nothing more that the member schools. I think this is state lawmakers getting involved in an area they do not belong believing the optics will serve them an easy public relations win while not caring in the least about what is actually in the best interest of the schools and student athletes. I guess the massive homeless problem and feces in the streets can wait until they tackle this NCAA issue....
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 7:54 pm    Post subject:

ringfinger wrote:
Get rid of college sports altogether (other than intramural type stuff).


why? because you do not enjoy college sports? because you did not play college sports? Do you not recognize the thousands upon thousands of young people that college athletics has benefited? I am not talking about some trickle down theory....there is a direct line between thousands or young people that would not have attended college or did not have the resources to attend college that college athletics created a direct path to a degree and professional career.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 7:54 pm    Post subject:

It's been argued that California essentially becomes a "super-league" as the best recruits will come to California because they can make a lot of money while competing at a top program. For the truly elite talent, it's not about school pride anymore, it's about setting yourself up for the pros and for life. Does a guy like Zion Williamson still choose Duke when he can come to UCLA instead while making millions? You can make an argument either way.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 8:04 pm    Post subject:

Even if the Governor signs, this will be tied up in the courts for years.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 8:58 pm    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
Get rid of college sports altogether (other than intramural type stuff).


why? because you do not enjoy college sports? because you did not play college sports? Do you not recognize the thousands upon thousands of young people that college athletics has benefited? I am not talking about some trickle down theory....there is a direct line between thousands or young people that would not have attended college or did not have the resources to attend college that college athletics created a direct path to a degree and professional career.


Because IMO sports has nothing to do with higher education. Ugly things can happen when you mesh two things with opposing goals.

College athletics may create a line to a degree, but that is not the reason for attending university. The degree is the desired byproduct. In other words, is all that matters that you get the degree, and not whether you were sufficiently educated to earn it? College sports as it is makes education secondary unless it is only intramural.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 9:43 pm    Post subject:

gng930 wrote:
It's been argued that California essentially becomes a "super-league" as the best recruits will come to California because they can make a lot of money while competing at a top program. For the truly elite talent, it's not about school pride anymore, it's about setting yourself up for the pros and for life. Does a guy like Zion Williamson still choose Duke when he can come to UCLA instead while making millions? You can make an argument either way.


From what I've read is that the athletes would benefit by getting paid but they would essentially be barred from postseason play. That means no March Madness or college bowl games, etc.....
But if you are an elite athlete trying to showcase your talents to the next level do you really care about a bowl game or winning the NCAA championship? Probably not.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 10:53 pm    Post subject:

To me I think they should be able to profit off themselves if they so choose. This is America. The colleges shouldn’t pay them for playing, they get a full ride to college for being great at a sport, (at least in football and basketball) but if Zion wanted to auction off his shoes and people want to buy, I think it’s ridiculous that’s against the rules.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2019 4:05 am    Post subject:

ringfinger wrote:


Because IMO sports has nothing to do with higher education. Ugly things can happen when you mesh two things with opposing goals.

College athletics may create a line to a degree, but that is not the reason for attending university. The degree is the desired byproduct. In other words, is all that matters that you get the degree, and not whether you were sufficiently educated to earn it? College sports as it is makes education secondary unless it is only intramural.


But college is supposed to help develop you for the job you want to work in after college. Professional sports is a career choice, so it makes sense that a college would provide development for it.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2019 4:37 am    Post subject:

vanexelent wrote:
ringfinger wrote:


Because IMO sports has nothing to do with higher education. Ugly things can happen when you mesh two things with opposing goals.

College athletics may create a line to a degree, but that is not the reason for attending university. The degree is the desired byproduct. In other words, is all that matters that you get the degree, and not whether you were sufficiently educated to earn it? College sports as it is makes education secondary unless it is only intramural.


But college is supposed to help develop you for the job you want to work in after college. Professional sports is a career choice, so it makes sense that a college would provide development for it.



It shouldn't be that way, btw.
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