Lakers Miss out on Kawhi, Make AD Official; Were the Sacrifices Worth It?

 
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emplay
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 07, 2019 6:49 am    Post subject: Lakers Miss out on Kawhi, Make AD Official; Were the Sacrifices Worth It?

Hey All,

Latest @BleacherReport Lakers Miss out on Kawhi, Make AD Official; Were the Sacrifices Worth It?
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2844541-lakers-miss-out-on-kawhi-make-ad-official-were-the-sacrifices-worth-it

Cheers,

EP
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 07, 2019 12:57 pm    Post subject:

Yeah, there are two sides to every story, it seems like Kawhi was playing the Lakers all along, even requesting an extension KNOWING that the Clippers were working on the PG trade!

Kawhi is a strange guy who marches to his own beat, so when he did not sign with the Lakers, it was NOT a total shock..

Also, had the Lakers not waited for him, they would have had to overpay for FA's and I'm not sure which one would have been a good fit? (Kimba did not want to play on the west coast, Bulter plays the same position as LeBron, Brojan might have been a good buy at $18mil).

Lakers needed Point Guards and none of the elite ones wanted/able to sign here.

I love the Cousins signing, but if the Lakers went after him with their full Cap space, no way he signs for $3.5mil..

So here we are... I don't even want to think about Davis leaving, let's just enjoy next season and getting back into the Playoffs...!
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 07, 2019 3:22 pm    Post subject:

Yes.

Danny Green at 30 mil./2 yr Is a good deal
Cousins and Rondo on near vet minimums are also a great deal.
McGee is of good value
KCP is overpaid but he is a clutch player. Would rather have gotten Morris.

Only player we missed that would have been awesome is Seth Curry.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 07, 2019 4:47 pm    Post subject:

VA LSU fan wrote:
Yes.

Danny Green at 30 mil./2 yr Is a good deal
Cousins and Rondo on near vet minimums are also a great deal.
McGee is of good value
KCP is overpaid but he is a clutch player. Would rather have gotten Morris.

Only player we missed that would have been awesome is Seth Curry.


We werent getting Curry*. He got a 4 year deal. It is pretty damn clear that with the exception of a top level talent like Kawhi, nothing beyond 2 years was being given by the Lakers.

If I had a time machine, and also had a way of exposing KL's game-of-thrones-like-manuevers so no bad press would hit the organization, I would have loved Green and Beverly as the back court pair up. However, Clippers offered Beverly a 3 year deal. And I am totally onboard with the Lakers playing for now and the future with cap space in that they are lining up these deals with the 2 years they have LBJ for certain, and in 2021 when he is a FA we can see how things are, so can he, and we can also see if the organization has behaved well enough and come across strong enough to entice Giannis to come here.

BTW, That is the *only* way Magic saves face for me moving forward - he can get to work, as a non-Laker employee, hypnotizing Giannis to become a Laker. As of right now, he seems pretty dead-set remaining a Buck.

*= not based on insider info, just my analysis of the deals being doled out. Seems to me Seth wanted a nice secure pay day and 4 years is a hell of alot better. BTW, Seth does not play D and we got Seth-like 3 point shooters for less who play at or even slightly above his defense level. Not saying I wouldnt want him, but just was not gonna happen based on what others were tossing out there.

**** (EDIT): I agree with your overall assessment of the additions.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2019 5:28 am    Post subject:

I like how the Lakers responded to Kawai going with the Clippers.

They acted with more good faith in the negotiations that Kawai did, especially toward the end where reports now indicate that they were asked to delay their moves while he was negotiating to get Paul George. It's okay -- all's fair in love and war, but the Lakers put several good pieces around Lebron, Davis and Kuzma.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2019 5:46 am    Post subject:

DrDent wrote:
VA LSU fan wrote:
Yes.

Danny Green at 30 mil./2 yr Is a good deal
Cousins and Rondo on near vet minimums are also a great deal.
McGee is of good value
KCP is overpaid but he is a clutch player. Would rather have gotten Morris.

Only player we missed that would have been awesome is Seth Curry.


We werent getting Curry*. He got a 4 year deal. It is pretty damn clear that with the exception of a top level talent like Kawhi, nothing beyond 2 years was being given by the Lakers.

If I had a time machine, and also had a way of exposing KL's game-of-thrones-like-manuevers so no bad press would hit the organization, I would have loved Green and Beverly as the back court pair up. However, Clippers offered Beverly a 3 year deal. And I am totally onboard with the Lakers playing for now and the future with cap space in that they are lining up these deals with the 2 years they have LBJ for certain, and in 2021 when he is a FA we can see how things are, so can he, and we can also see if the organization has behaved well enough and come across strong enough to entice Giannis to come here.

BTW, That is the *only* way Magic saves face for me moving forward - he can get to work, as a non-Laker employee, hypnotizing Giannis to become a Laker. As of right now, he seems pretty dead-set remaining a Buck.

*= not based on insider info, just my analysis of the deals being doled out. Seems to me Seth wanted a nice secure pay day and 4 years is a hell of alot better. BTW, Seth does not play D and we got Seth-like 3 point shooters for less who play at or even slightly above his defense level. Not saying I wouldnt want him, but just was not gonna happen based on what others were tossing out there.

**** (EDIT): I agree with your overall assessment of the additions.

I can argue that the reason all these players got two years deal is because that’s what they are worth. Curry and Beverley have greater values for the Lakers for these two years than the “what if” scenario in 2021.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2019 9:10 am    Post subject:

Not if we get Giannis in 2 years
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2019 11:00 am    Post subject:

Fallout wrote:
Not if we get Giannis in 2 years

Bucks just signed his brother- he aint leaving unless we signed his bro as well.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2019 11:26 am    Post subject:

lakersfan8 wrote:
DrDent wrote:
VA LSU fan wrote:
Yes.

Danny Green at 30 mil./2 yr Is a good deal
Cousins and Rondo on near vet minimums are also a great deal.
McGee is of good value
KCP is overpaid but he is a clutch player. Would rather have gotten Morris.

Only player we missed that would have been awesome is Seth Curry.


We werent getting Curry*. He got a 4 year deal. It is pretty damn clear that with the exception of a top level talent like Kawhi, nothing beyond 2 years was being given by the Lakers.

If I had a time machine, and also had a way of exposing KL's game-of-thrones-like-manuevers so no bad press would hit the organization, I would have loved Green and Beverly as the back court pair up. However, Clippers offered Beverly a 3 year deal. And I am totally onboard with the Lakers playing for now and the future with cap space in that they are lining up these deals with the 2 years they have LBJ for certain, and in 2021 when he is a FA we can see how things are, so can he, and we can also see if the organization has behaved well enough and come across strong enough to entice Giannis to come here.

BTW, That is the *only* way Magic saves face for me moving forward - he can get to work, as a non-Laker employee, hypnotizing Giannis to become a Laker. As of right now, he seems pretty dead-set remaining a Buck.

*= not based on insider info, just my analysis of the deals being doled out. Seems to me Seth wanted a nice secure pay day and 4 years is a hell of alot better. BTW, Seth does not play D and we got Seth-like 3 point shooters for less who play at or even slightly above his defense level. Not saying I wouldnt want him, but just was not gonna happen based on what others were tossing out there.

**** (EDIT): I agree with your overall assessment of the additions.

I can argue that the reason all these players got two years deal is because that’s what they are worth. Curry and Beverley have greater values for the Lakers for these two years than the “what if” scenario in 2021.


Well...folks can argue just about anything. But if you want to believe the only rationale behind the 2 year deals was "you are not worth more than 2 years" that's up to you. Signs seem pretty clear to me considering the Lakers did not get KL, that will be LBJ's option year, and the fact Giannis will presumably be available.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2019 12:45 pm    Post subject:

It actually turned out being better for the Lakers not getting Kawhi. The 3rd star usually sacrifices game...ala Bosh, Love, Draymond. So the team would be better off getting a role player that could approximate the reduced sacrificed production of a star and use extra money in depth.

I love what Pelinka did. Was wrong about him and Jeannie...owe them an apology...I’m sorry I doubted y’all. They have prove to be absolute BEAST!!!!!

Time to tie for most championships!
TTT - time to tie!!!!!!!
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dabask11
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2019 1:18 pm    Post subject:

Fallout wrote:
Not if we get Giannis in 2 years


You mean how the lakers will strike out again in 2 years
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2019 5:35 pm    Post subject:

And a lot of those 2 year deals have a player option, so some of them may end up being only 1 year deals if the players leave.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2019 9:31 pm    Post subject:

Hanging from Rafters wrote:
It actually turned out being better for the Lakers not getting Kawhi. The 3rd star usually sacrifices game...ala Bosh, Love, Draymond. So the team would be better off getting a role player that could approximate the reduced sacrificed production of a star and use extra money in depth.

I love what Pelinka did. Was wrong about him and Jeannie...owe them an apology...I’m sorry I doubted y’all. They have prove to be absolute BEAST!!!!!

Time to tie for most championships!
TTT - time to tie!!!!!!!


All three of those player got rings. Their teams were better off with their "sacrifices".

I wonder when emplay will post his new article. Would like to know something about the Lakers' decision making process, before and after Kawhi's announcement.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2019 12:13 am    Post subject:

Just as a side note some folks have poo pooed the idea that Giannis will consider FA in 2021 cuz his brother signed with the Bucks

What’s really interesting about that is he signed a...

2 year deal😉

https://mobile.twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status/1147905246812753920

Both will be a FA at the same time in 2021

(Of course Giannis can put a quick kabosh on this should he sign an extension before 2021)
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2019 5:25 pm    Post subject:

[quote="LaxT"]
Hanging from Rafters wrote:
It actually turned out being better for the Lakers not getting Kawhi. The 3rd star usually sacrifices game...ala Bosh, Love, Draymond. So the team would be better off getting a role player that could approximate the reduced sacrificed production of a star and use extra money in depth.

I love what Pelinka did. Was wrong about him and Jeannie...owe them an apology...I’m sorry I doubted y’all. They have prove to be absolute BEAST!!!!!

Time to tie for most championships!
TTT - time to tie!!!!!!!


All three of those player got rings. Their teams were better off with their "sacrifices".

You make a good point, winning a championship does seem to make it pay off. I was thinking along the lines of replacing the money used on KD with Barnes/Bogot. Or perhaps instead of Bosh max (approx) deal, maybe Miami would have been better off paying for a 17/10 guy and using the extra cap space for better depth. Hard to argue with winning a title so you may be right but perhaps the Miami Clev and GS teams would have won even more with a deeper vs top heavy roster so maybe it will be better in the long run for the Lakers as well.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2019 8:23 pm    Post subject:

Yes it was worth it only a worthless organization with no confidence would have not gone all in to get KL. Jerry Buss would have went all in we all know that. The Lakers showed that if you are true to your purpose in life, to be the best bball team franchise in history that good things happen. We don't tank we always plan all in to win and that keeps blessing us over and over again. Now we all see that hey, this worked out pretty darn good for US!
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2019 2:36 am    Post subject: Re: Lakers Miss out on Kawhi, Make AD Official; Were the Sacrifices Worth It?

emplay wrote:
Hey All,

Latest @BleacherReport Lakers Miss out on Kawhi, Make AD Official; Were the Sacrifices Worth It?
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2844541-lakers-miss-out-on-kawhi-make-ad-official-were-the-sacrifices-worth-it

Cheers,

EP
Good Article

Agree that the Lakers were "All In" on KL and it was the right decision. Very few people anticipated that KL wanted to be his own "LBJ" to be a Power Broker.

KL decided to be the Batman and decide on his Robin (with PG being his second choice behind KD). KL did not want to become the "KD" of the Lakers, since KD can share countless stories that despite being the best player for the Dubs - it will always be Curry's team.

Props to Rob, without Magic's restraints, he did a good to great job this off-season.

"It's the way the Lakers went about it, hoarding cap space instead of developing additional tangible trade assets." Clippers' trade assets were draft choices plus players.

It has oft-been shared that playing good D requires effort and the right system. With Vogel and Hollins having a strong reputation of having a team play good D, it bodes well for the Lakers. Outside of Green and AD, they don't have good and consistent one-on-one defenders, but in this NBA - is it a big necessity. With Dame hitting his outshot over PG in the playoffs, good offense will triumph over good defense.

If the Lakers got KL, they would be very top heavy with little depth - as oppose to what they are now. With LBJ, AD, Kuzma, JaVale, Green, Boogie (excuse me, he wants to be called DeMarcus), Bradley and others being very hungry - there will be great focus (especially from LBJ and AD) that will drive them in the playoffs.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2019 2:14 pm    Post subject:

Well, well, we’ll. Isn’t this interesting. I’m not reading into it, it’s just interesting.

Kawhi signed a 3 year deal instead with a player option in 2021. By the way PG13 can be a FA if he wants that year as well.

Yes, means he can resign for even more $$. But just as a nice extra bonus he can choose, if he wants, to become a FA the year giannis and LBJ can be FA.

Could be all coincidence but I find it...interesting😎👍🏾
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ribeye
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 11:05 am    Post subject:

Was it worth it? I thought I would see what was the results of RPM wins for He Who Chose Not To Be A Laker, versus the new Lakers player's additions--those who essentially consumed the same amount of cap space money.

KL > 8.32

DG > 11.23

Well, no need to continue as Danny Green had a significantly larger RPM wins calculation than did KL.

Yes, this is but one metric (which I don't suspect will repeat this season), and more importantly, does not measure the post season where KL was far more productive than DG. But it does give one argument that the Lakers could be a better team with the depth added, than with KL plus. I think, logically without using stats, KL's ~60 games played at 34 minutes a game, coupled with more minimum players, could be hard to match the contribution of the many minutes of Green, KCP, McGee, Cousins, and Cook.

How about then, Win Shares:

KL 9.5 (4.9)

DG 5.9 (.8)
KCP 4.0

I'll stop here. Win shares favors just two of the depth players over KL . . . until we look at the playoffs, noted in parenthesis. Since KL had a monster playoff, I don't have to look to see how win shares would play out here. Also, as with RPM wins, the limitation of stats (these in particular), is punctuated, as who would even begin to claim that DG + KCP > KL?

Still, I'm going to say it is pretty much a wash of KL vs the depth plauers--there is only one basketball, and with two of the three best playoff performers on one team, the advantage KL might have come playoff time is diminished with LeBron on the same team. Still, considering that KL is not only a loss for the Laks, but a gain for the Clips, when they play, it will likely come down to seven tough games, and since my heart and head are not exactly in the same place, I'll leave it at that.


Last edited by ribeye on Mon Jul 15, 2019 7:34 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2019 6:04 am    Post subject:

The ONLY problem I have with the Jeannie/Pelinka/Rambis front office is that they should have received insider information that Kawhi was doing everything he could to sign with the Clippers (pursuing Durant, pursuing George, etc) all while playing games with the Lakers (delaying his decision, wanting to meet with Lakers FO folks individually, etc).

Kawhi Leonard was around Popovich long enough to go to extreme lengths... denying the Lakers (his eventual opponent) a top alternate 3rd option, by purposefully delaying his decision, would bode well for his new team the Clippers.

The FO needed better sources of information throughout the league and not having them... cost them.

Also, I think Adrian Wojnarowski knew much more about Kawhi and his people working so hard in the background to get him to the Clippers... but never shared the information and let the charade of the Lakers having a chance play-out to give Steve Ballmer and the Clips time to work out a way to get a player like Paul George.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 9:34 pm    Post subject:

Looking back at contracts that were signed before Kawhi finalized his decision, doesn't seem like Lakers would have been able to match if they were set on limiting contracts to 2 year deals. For example, Seth Curry got $32m over 4 years.

The one I see that can be argued the most is Javale McGee vs Nerlens Noel vs Willie Cauley-Stein.

I would've loved to see Lakers use their cap space to take on Dragic or Schroder's contract and possibly land an additional pick. Starting PG is probably our weakest position.
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