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lakersken80
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 Posted: Tue Jul 30, 2019 11:28 am Post subject: |
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| LakersRGolden wrote: | Hm. Automatic transmission only. Not sure how that will go over.
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Demand drives it. In that article it says only 20% of the sales of the last gen Corvette were manuals...I remember reading an article that only 8% of all cars sold today are manuals. This explains why even those high dollar sports cars don't come with a manual transmission. |
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22
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| Posted: Fri Aug 02, 2019 8:57 pm Post subject: |
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| lakersken80 wrote: | | LakersRGolden wrote: | Hm. Automatic transmission only. Not sure how that will go over.
Link |
Demand drives it. In that article it says only 20% of the sales of the last gen Corvette were manuals...I remember reading an article that only 8% of all cars sold today are manuals. This explains why even those high dollar sports cars don't come with a manual transmission. |
Stick shift is a dying art. Glad I learned already
DCT with paddle shifters performs way better, just not as fun |
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Aussiesuede
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| Posted: Fri Aug 02, 2019 9:06 pm Post subject: |
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| 22 wrote: | | lakersken80 wrote: | | LakersRGolden wrote: | Hm. Automatic transmission only. Not sure how that will go over.
Link |
Demand drives it. In that article it says only 20% of the sales of the last gen Corvette were manuals...I remember reading an article that only 8% of all cars sold today are manuals. This explains why even those high dollar sports cars don't come with a manual transmission. |
Stick shift is a dying art. Glad I learned already
DCT with paddle shifters performs way better, just not as fun |
It's only a matter of time before a manufacturer has a lightbulb go on and offer a DCT with a stick shifter on the console for purist who would rather shift that way instead of using paddles. Would not be at all difficult to implement. The only thing missing would be a clutch pedal. Maybe the folks at Chevy will be the 1st to market with the 2021 ZR1?
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I'm On point, On task, On message, and Off drugs. A Streetwise Smart Bomb, Out of rehab and In denial. Over the Top, On the edge, Under the Radar, and In Control. Behind the 8 ball, Ahead of the Curve and I've got a Love Child who sends me Hate mail. |
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Hector the Pup
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Location: L.A.
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| Posted: Mon Aug 05, 2019 8:12 am Post subject: |
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| Aussiesuede wrote: | | 22 wrote: | | lakersken80 wrote: | | LakersRGolden wrote: | Hm. Automatic transmission only. Not sure how that will go over.
Link |
Demand drives it. In that article it says only 20% of the sales of the last gen Corvette were manuals...I remember reading an article that only 8% of all cars sold today are manuals. This explains why even those high dollar sports cars don't come with a manual transmission. |
Stick shift is a dying art. Glad I learned already
DCT with paddle shifters performs way better, just not as fun |
It's only a matter of time before a manufacturer has a lightbulb go on and offer a DCT with a stick shifter on the console for purist who would rather shift that way instead of using paddles. Would not be at all difficult to implement. The only thing missing would be a clutch pedal. Maybe the folks at Chevy will be the 1st to market with the 2021 ZR1? |
Fortunately that "purist" crap is dying. Sorry, but you're not a better driver because you use a manual. It doesn't make you 'more connected to the car'.
There's a reason that F1 drivers said goodbye to the manual transmission more than 20 years ago. There's a reason that the companies that make the best cars on the planet no longer offer one.
A manual transmission is like watching a movie on DigiBeta because you're a 'purist'. |
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lakersken80
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| Posted: Mon Aug 05, 2019 8:26 am Post subject: |
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| Hector the Pup wrote: | | Aussiesuede wrote: | | 22 wrote: | | lakersken80 wrote: | | LakersRGolden wrote: | Hm. Automatic transmission only. Not sure how that will go over.
Link |
Demand drives it. In that article it says only 20% of the sales of the last gen Corvette were manuals...I remember reading an article that only 8% of all cars sold today are manuals. This explains why even those high dollar sports cars don't come with a manual transmission. |
Stick shift is a dying art. Glad I learned already
DCT with paddle shifters performs way better, just not as fun |
It's only a matter of time before a manufacturer has a lightbulb go on and offer a DCT with a stick shifter on the console for purist who would rather shift that way instead of using paddles. Would not be at all difficult to implement. The only thing missing would be a clutch pedal. Maybe the folks at Chevy will be the 1st to market with the 2021 ZR1? |
Fortunately that "purist" crap is dying. Sorry, but you're not a better driver because you use a manual. It doesn't make you 'more connected to the car'.
There's a reason that F1 drivers said goodbye to the manual transmission more than 20 years ago. There's a reason that the companies that make the best cars on the planet no longer offer one.
A manual transmission is like watching a movie on DigiBeta because you're a 'purist'. |
Actually F1 drivers had zero say into the series abandoning the manual transmission. It had more to do with reliability. A missed shift with a manual gearbox when you are racing means a blown transmission. When you are racing a DNF means missed points and potentially missing out on a championship if you are a contender. |
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Hector the Pup
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| Posted: Mon Aug 05, 2019 8:41 am Post subject: |
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They did have a say in it.
If you tell a competitive driver that there is something that shifts gears faster than they are capable of on their own with 100% reliability, they're taking that option every single time.
Manual transmissions vs. dual clutch is like an abacus vs. the latest smartphone. |
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lakersken80
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| Posted: Mon Aug 05, 2019 8:57 am Post subject: |
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| Hector the Pup wrote: | They did have a say in it.
If you tell a competitive driver that there is something that shifts gears faster than they are capable of on their own with 100% reliability, they're taking that option every single time.
Manual transmissions vs. dual clutch is like an abacus vs. the latest smartphone. |
Wrong.The drivers want to highlight their skills. A manual transmission where they display their ability to control the car allows them to showcase that. The F1 constructors are the ones that actually build the car, employ hundreds to thousands of employees on the other hand and whose livelihoods depends on where the team finishes the season depending on the standings which results in how much prize money and sponsors they get for next season. Lets not forget that the drivers are merely employees of the team, they do not actually get a say in how the team designs or builds the car. I don't think anybody is disputing that semi-automatic transmission shifts faster than a manual transmission. You are talking about a transmission that basically removes a human from making a mistake and that does take something away from the skill of driving. For a racing driver something that displays an additional skill set allows them set themselves apart from the rest of their competition and gives them a stronger negotiating position when it comes to driver contracts.
Last edited by lakersken80 on Mon Aug 05, 2019 9:27 am; edited 3 times in total |
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lakersken80
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| Posted: Mon Aug 05, 2019 9:03 am Post subject: |
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Don't take my word about manual transmissions, here is what 5x F1 world champ, Lewis Hamilton thinks about manual transmissions.
https://www.espn.com/f1/story/_/id/14837481/lewis-hamilton-longs-lighter-cars-v12s-manual-gearboxes
| Quote: | "I don't want to get into it because I'll just cause a stir and get in trouble. But I love a V12 and wider tyres. I saw a picture the other day of a Ferrari when the sidepods were super low and it must have been mid-80s bodywork. It just looked so cool, the wishbones were really wide -- those were the days.
"I just loved the way the cars looked then. And with a stick shift, those are the days that I liked, but obviously we will never be there again. 2008 was a great year when we were fighting against another team and obviously since then we've had some great battles, but we need more of them. Whatever decisions they have been making have not been working for some time." |
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/lewis-hamilton-describes-himself-as-an-old-school-formula-1-driver/3222406/
| Quote: |
Hamilton also admitted that he prefers the stick operated gearboxes that are no longer commonly used in racing cars over the paddle operated systems found on the back of F1 steering wheels.
He said: “I’m generally more old school. I don’t like tiptronic [paddle gearboxes], even though I race with tiptronic. I like having a gear stick. I like three pedals. I like the heel-and-toe effect. You just have a little bit more control.” |
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Dr. Funkbot
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| Posted: Mon Aug 05, 2019 1:00 pm Post subject: |
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| j-dawg wrote: | Why mention the Supra, Cayman, etc.. when I think the biggest loser (especially if they can make this car about $60k) will be the Camaro ZL1.
At >$60k, would you take a heavier, slower (even though has more hp) vehicle whose practicality is more or less negligible due to the virtually unusable back seats of the Camaro? I think some Porsche guys and Supra guys will be interested, but the Camaro guys are the ones who will be most interested.
I don’t think the German car guys have anything to worry about. As good as the Corvette may be, it won’t quite have that snob appeal. |
I am not a chevy guy either, but man Porsche is going to have to do some price cutting. The base 911 with the turbo lag, ugly/boring looks and insufficient horsepower is $100k. The chevy is cheaper than even the base Cayman- which is in danger of getting beaten in a drag race by a V6 Camry.
And it is not just about horsepower, GM has actually cracked the ride/handling balance code. So yeah I think the Germans should be worried and should start cutting their bloated sticker prices. Kudos to GM!
I am a Ford guy and wow, the new mid engine vette, even with some options is going to be a lot cheaper than the new GT500. It is quite a feat.
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Dr. Funkbot
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| Posted: Mon Aug 05, 2019 1:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Hector the Pup wrote: | They did have a say in it.
If you tell a competitive driver that there is something that shifts gears faster than they are capable of on their own with 100% reliability, they're taking that option every single time.
Manual transmissions vs. dual clutch is like an abacus vs. the latest smartphone. |
No doubt the automatic is faster but in terms of driver engagement there is nothing better than a manual gearbox. There is a reason people pay big bucks for manual transmission cars like the 911R. I just love completing the perfect heel toe downshift in my BOSS on a mountain road. Glorious!
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22
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| Posted: Mon Aug 05, 2019 5:13 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah sorry HCP. It’s not “purist” crap. No one is arguing DCTs and Automatics aren’t faster than manuals now, they are.
But you are also more “connected” to the car in a manual. Plain and simple having complete control over the clutch you are more mechanically in control of the car than a DCT or Auto. |
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Tue Aug 06, 2019 7:50 pm Post subject: |
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| 22 wrote: | Yeah sorry HCP. It’s not “purist” crap. No one is arguing DCTs and Automatics aren’t faster than manuals now, they are.
But you are also more “connected” to the car in a manual. Plain and simple having complete control over the clutch you are more mechanically in control of the car than a DCT or Auto. |
Yep. Technology is certainly capable of making cars faster on the highest end of the technology. But the fact remains that a quality manual sports car built for the road and in the hands of a experienced driver who is skilled at things like heal-toe technique and how to exploit that with proper breaking to influence how the chassis sets itself in and out of turns is going to be able to find more efficient ways to get the most speed in corners. And proper cornering is the key to the fastest lap times. Sure, in the world of elite racing the computers do a great job of taking some of that out of the driver's hands, but that doesn't mean it's not simply "purist crap". Especially when it comes to the cars that us non-F1 drivers have access to.
I am certainly not what anyone would call a race car driver. But in my younger years, I did dabble in it and spent racing schools driving both street cars and formula cars. I have yet to drive a street car with an automatic (or paddle shift) that I can drive faster over all than I can with a manual - especially when I am truly driving to drive fast on roads that are winding and elevating and simple top end straight away speed is not a factor. We just haven't reached a point in technology for street cars that out does the ability of a solid driver to put all the dynamics together in regards to doing the delicate dance of braking, attitude control and acceleration.
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You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
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jonnybravo
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| Posted: Tue Aug 06, 2019 8:00 pm Post subject: |
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| DaMuleRules wrote: | | 22 wrote: | Yeah sorry HCP. It’s not “purist” crap. No one is arguing DCTs and Automatics aren’t faster than manuals now, they are.
But you are also more “connected” to the car in a manual. Plain and simple having complete control over the clutch you are more mechanically in control of the car than a DCT or Auto. |
Yep. Technology is certainly capable of making cars faster on the highest end of the technology. But the fact remains that a quality manual sports car built for the road and in the hands of a experienced driver who is skilled at things like heal-toe technique and how to exploit that with proper breaking to influence how the chassis sets itself in and out of turns is going to be able to find more efficient ways to get the most speed in corners. And proper cornering is the key to the fastest lap times. Sure, in the world of elite racing the computers do a great job of taking some of that out of the driver's hands, but that doesn't mean it's not simply "purist crap". Especially when it comes to the cars that us non-F1 drivers have access to.
I am certainly not what anyone would call a race car driver. But in my younger years, I did dabble in it and spent racing schools driving both street cars and formula cars. I have yet to drive a street car with an automatic (or paddle shift) that I can drive faster over all than I can with a manual - especially when I am truly driving to drive fast on roads that are winding and elevating and simple top end straight away speed is not a factor. We just haven't reached a point in technology for street cars that out does the ability of a solid driver to put all the dynamics together in regards to doing the delicate dance of braking, attitude control and acceleration. |
Bro, that puts you in the top .00000000000000000000000000000000001% of drivers.
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 8:36 pm Post subject: |
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| jonnybravo wrote: |
Bro, that puts you in the top .00000000000000000000000000000000001% of drivers. |
I wish!
My point wasn’t about my skills, because despite the schools and track time, it’s not like I was particularly great at it and I never did any actual racing outside the schools and a couple of small SCCA events.
I was just emphasizing that just because great technology can make automatics faster than truly manual shifting, that doesn’t mean that there isn’t something organic about driving that is truly significant to getting the best out a car.
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
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