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governator Franchise Player
Joined: 28 Jan 2006 Posts: 24996
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Posted: Thu Sep 19, 2019 6:45 am Post subject: |
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LandsbergerRules wrote: | Luminous8 wrote: | kikanga wrote: | scout0_0 wrote: | Can Kuz outplay montrelz? |
If he's hot from the 3pt line. Sure.
If not, Montrezl is the better rebounder, defender, paint finisher. So no. In terms of strength and athleticism Montrezl is on another level. Pretty comparable motor though. |
I sincerely disagree that they have comparable motors. Kuz only has a motor for seeing the open spots on offense. Trez has a motor that simply doesn’t quit whether he’s on offense or defense. Rebounding or attacking. Nowhere near similar motors imo. |
Agreed. |
Dwight need to earn his $ and match all the hustle bigs |
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NBALakerLegends Star Player
Joined: 06 Aug 2007 Posts: 1026
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Posted: Thu Sep 19, 2019 11:14 am Post subject: |
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SocalDevin wrote: | Judah wrote: | They're different players. Montrezl is gritty and a grinder with limited skills. Kuz is gifted offensively and thus offensively minded. It's an apple to oranges comparison. |
I'm not so sure there is that much of a disparity in skill between the two. |
Kuz is a better scorer from 3 feet out in all the ranges he is more efficient and crafty and takes more shots. Trez takes more than 90% of his shots from 0-10 feet. However, Trez shoots about 6% better at the basket (0-3 feet) as a finisher. He has great finishing numbers because that's all the shots he can take.
For Montrez, his biggest issue is that he creates no sense of perimeter gravity for opposing teams so when he closes games he is the Center and therefore wouldn't be a candidate to start next to Zubac (who also can't shoot from deep). I doubt we ever see many minutes of Zu and Trez together.
Both Kuz and Trez are bad defenders. Kuz is 76/91 in DRPM and Trez is 70/91 for PFs. This will be Trez's 5th season so it's possible he just doesn't have the size to defend effectively. I think if Kuz doesn't show much improvement this year, this may be the type of defender he is for his career. |
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Luminous8 Star Player
Joined: 26 Apr 2017 Posts: 2192
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Posted: Thu Sep 19, 2019 12:22 pm Post subject: |
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NBALakerLegends wrote: | SocalDevin wrote: | Judah wrote: | They're different players. Montrezl is gritty and a grinder with limited skills. Kuz is gifted offensively and thus offensively minded. It's an apple to oranges comparison. |
I'm not so sure there is that much of a disparity in skill between the two. |
Kuz is a better scorer from 3 feet out in all the ranges he is more efficient and crafty and takes more shots. Trez takes more than 90% of his shots from 0-10 feet. However, Trez shoots about 6% better at the basket (0-3 feet) as a finisher. He has great finishing numbers because that's all the shots he can take.
For Montrez, his biggest issue is that he creates no sense of perimeter gravity for opposing teams so when he closes games he is the Center and therefore wouldn't be a candidate to start next to Zubac (who also can't shoot from deep). I doubt we ever see many minutes of Zu and Trez together.
Both Kuz and Trez are bad defenders. Kuz is 76/91 in DRPM and Trez is 70/91 for PFs. This will be Trez's 5th season so it's possible he just doesn't have the size to defend effectively. I think if Kuz doesn't show much improvement this year, this may be the type of defender he is for his career. |
I see what the numbers you’re giving me are,.. but you’ll not be able to convince me that Trez is bad defensively. |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Thu Sep 19, 2019 12:25 pm Post subject: |
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I think Trez is a bit like Faried. People conflate hyperactivity on defense with actual good defense.
I would gladly take Trez on my team as any team would love his motor and hustle. But deep down I do think he's not a truly effective defender. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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NBALakerLegends Star Player
Joined: 06 Aug 2007 Posts: 1026
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Posted: Thu Sep 19, 2019 12:54 pm Post subject: |
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yinoma2001 wrote: | I think Trez is a bit like Faried. People conflate hyperactivity on defense with actual good defense.
I would gladly take Trez on my team as any team would love his motor and hustle. But deep down I do think he's not a truly effective defender. |
You beat me to it. |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Thu Sep 19, 2019 12:57 pm Post subject: |
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NBALakerLegends wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | I think Trez is a bit like Faried. People conflate hyperactivity on defense with actual good defense.
I would gladly take Trez on my team as any team would love his motor and hustle. But deep down I do think he's not a truly effective defender. |
You beat me to it. |
He out hustles bigger guys but when they take him to the post, he's toast. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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Luminous8 Star Player
Joined: 26 Apr 2017 Posts: 2192
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Posted: Thu Sep 19, 2019 5:50 pm Post subject: |
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yinoma2001 wrote: | NBALakerLegends wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | I think Trez is a bit like Faried. People conflate hyperactivity on defense with actual good defense.
I would gladly take Trez on my team as any team would love his motor and hustle. But deep down I do think he's not a truly effective defender. |
You beat me to it. |
He out hustles bigger guys but when they take him to the post, he's toast. |
But really how many big men go to the post these days? Draymond gets eaten up by bigs who go back to the basket as well. Hell, whiteside gave him the business and he’s not even what I’d call a good post scorer. If Trez is in the right system defensively. One with a switch heavy scheme that allows him to defend smaller guys and plenty of rotating similar to GS he’d be terrific. |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Fri Sep 20, 2019 5:10 am Post subject: |
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Luminous8 wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | NBALakerLegends wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | I think Trez is a bit like Faried. People conflate hyperactivity on defense with actual good defense.
I would gladly take Trez on my team as any team would love his motor and hustle. But deep down I do think he's not a truly effective defender. |
You beat me to it. |
He out hustles bigger guys but when they take him to the post, he's toast. |
But really how many big men go to the post these days? Draymond gets eaten up by bigs who go back to the basket as well. Hell, whiteside gave him the business and he’s not even what I’d call a good post scorer. If Trez is in the right system defensively. One with a switch heavy scheme that allows him to defend smaller guys and plenty of rotating similar to GS he’d be terrific. |
I'm just saying, his defensive metrics meets the eye test IMO. He's an elite version of Faried. Has the same strengths but better, and same weaknesses. If their plan is to stop AD with Trez, I'll take that all day. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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Dr. Laker Franchise Player
Joined: 12 Apr 2002 Posts: 17065
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Posted: Fri Sep 20, 2019 5:53 am Post subject: |
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yinoma2001 wrote: | Luminous8 wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | NBALakerLegends wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | I think Trez is a bit like Faried. People conflate hyperactivity on defense with actual good defense.
I would gladly take Trez on my team as any team would love his motor and hustle. But deep down I do think he's not a truly effective defender. |
You beat me to it. |
He out hustles bigger guys but when they take him to the post, he's toast. |
But really how many big men go to the post these days? Draymond gets eaten up by bigs who go back to the basket as well. Hell, whiteside gave him the business and he’s not even what I’d call a good post scorer. If Trez is in the right system defensively. One with a switch heavy scheme that allows him to defend smaller guys and plenty of rotating similar to GS he’d be terrific. |
I'm just saying, his defensive metrics meets the eye test IMO. He's an elite version of Faried. Has the same strengths but better, and same weaknesses. If their plan is to stop AD with Trez, I'll take that all day. |
More to the point, if they're defending AD & Dwight with PG and Montrez, I expect us to dominate in the paint. _________________ On Lakersground, a concern troll is someone who is a fan of another team, but pretends to be a Lakers fan with "concerns". |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Fri Sep 20, 2019 5:57 am Post subject: |
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Trez's appeal to me is on offense and his hustle.
If you have him guarding Draymond or Tucker as small ball 5s, that's fine. But if AD is the small ball 5, yeah, good luck with that Trez. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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Luminous8 Star Player
Joined: 26 Apr 2017 Posts: 2192
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Posted: Fri Sep 20, 2019 6:48 am Post subject: |
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yinoma2001 wrote: | Trez's appeal to me is on offense and his hustle.
If you have him guarding Draymond or Tucker as small ball 5s, that's fine. But if AD is the small ball 5, yeah, good luck with that Trez. |
Not going to argue that with you at all. |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Fri Sep 20, 2019 6:53 am Post subject: |
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Luminous8 wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | Trez's appeal to me is on offense and his hustle.
If you have him guarding Draymond or Tucker as small ball 5s, that's fine. But if AD is the small ball 5, yeah, good luck with that Trez. |
Not going to argue that with you at all. |
Would I want Trez on my team? 100% yes. That he's on a 6m deal is criminal. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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Kava Star Player
Joined: 10 Mar 2010 Posts: 2173
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Posted: Fri Sep 20, 2019 7:37 am Post subject: |
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Trez should be a blueprint for every undersized 4/5 in the league. Classic example of playing to his strengths - hardly ever tries to do something outside of what he excels at.
This is why I don't want to see D39 practice 3's. And why he never would worked out primarily as a post player.
Trez and is like a mini version of the Orlando D12. Not as freakishly athletic, but his motor is comparable. Trez is fighting for every loose ball and offensive board out there.
Begs the question....
What is Kuz good at? As an NBA player, just because you CAN do a little bit of everything doesn't mean you SHOULD right? (idk) |
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KeepItRealOrElse Retired Number
Joined: 11 Oct 2012 Posts: 32767
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Posted: Fri Sep 20, 2019 8:26 am Post subject: |
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Kava wrote: | Trez should be a blueprint for every undersized 4/5 in the league. Classic example of playing to his strengths - hardly ever tries to do something outside of what he excels at.
This is why I don't want to see D39 practice 3's. And why he never would worked out primarily as a post player.
Trez and is like a mini version of the Orlando D12. Not as freakishly athletic, but his motor is comparable. Trez is fighting for every loose ball and offensive board out there.
Begs the question....
What is Kuz good at? As an NBA player, just because you CAN do a little bit of everything doesn't mean you SHOULD right? (idk) |
I don't think 2nd year players are usually legit good. even as a specialist who can be solid in other places... He has good scoring traits..cutting, running, and some skill.. I'll take his ppg as a good sign. and hope the shooting becomes avg |
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Kava Star Player
Joined: 10 Mar 2010 Posts: 2173
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Posted: Fri Sep 20, 2019 8:40 am Post subject: |
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Kuz is legit good in the open floor. That jump hook on the run is next level - many in the nba don't even attempt that shot. Unfortunately, we aren't going to fast break every offensive possession. In a half court set, he's a 3rd option at best.
Last season, due to injury, Kuz was asked/expected to do too much and his game suffered for it. Best case scenario would be to set up his slashing game for buckets or dimes with a legit threat from behind the arc.
There's no way for a defense to single cover Lebron/AD for an entire game w/o them feasting. When the double goes to our superstars, someone's got to make them pay. Point is, Kuz has got to hit a + % 3pt for him to max potential this season imo. I'd accept H Barnes level - 39.5% |
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DLaker Star Player
Joined: 14 Jul 2005 Posts: 1536
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Posted: Fri Sep 20, 2019 9:04 am Post subject: |
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I think Kuz could be a great complimentary player for AD and LBJ. Walton just ask him to play beyond what he is capable of (spacer, cutting and quick move at rotating def). I don't need Kuz bring the ball of the floor like as a facilitator. Rebound and push if you have a direct line to the basket, else pass to a true PG like rondo or LBJ and fill the lane ala Showtime era. |
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HumanVictoryCigar Star Player
Joined: 28 Apr 2014 Posts: 7601
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PayasoLoco Franchise Player
Joined: 07 Jul 2001 Posts: 16663
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Posted: Sat Sep 21, 2019 7:27 am Post subject: |
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Kava wrote: | Trez should be a blueprint for every undersized 4/5 in the league. Classic example of playing to his strengths - hardly ever tries to do something outside of what he excels at.
This is why I don't want to see D39 practice 3's. And why he never would worked out primarily as a post player.
Trez and is like a mini version of the Orlando D12. Not as freakishly athletic, but his motor is comparable. Trez is fighting for every loose ball and offensive board out there.
Begs the question....
What is Kuz good at? As an NBA player, just because you CAN do a little bit of everything doesn't mean you SHOULD right? (idk) |
You just described kenneth faried and about 20 other "garbage man" type players |
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scout0_0 Starting Rotation
Joined: 06 Jul 2019 Posts: 918
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Posted: Sat Sep 21, 2019 9:42 am Post subject: |
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PayasoLoco wrote: | Kava wrote: | Trez should be a blueprint for every undersized 4/5 in the league. Classic example of playing to his strengths - hardly ever tries to do something outside of what he excels at.
This is why I don't want to see D39 practice 3's. And why he never would worked out primarily as a post player.
Trez and is like a mini version of the Orlando D12. Not as freakishly athletic, but his motor is comparable. Trez is fighting for every loose ball and offensive board out there.
Begs the question....
What is Kuz good at? As an NBA player, just because you CAN do a little bit of everything doesn't mean you SHOULD right? (idk) |
You just described kenneth faried and about 20 other "garbage man" ty
pe players |
Trez is not a garbage man... even tho he is. The guy is an insane p&R player and with 4 wings spcing the floor and looking for him??? we are lucky to have dwight who seems to push people out of the paint very easily. He would eat mcgee alive. |
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epak Retired Number
Joined: 30 Aug 2005 Posts: 34147
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Posted: Sun Sep 22, 2019 8:34 pm Post subject: |
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Hopefully Trez has the Kenneth Faried career arch |
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pio2u Retired Number
Joined: 26 Dec 2012 Posts: 54519
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Judah Star Player
Joined: 23 Jun 2015 Posts: 4759
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Posted: Mon Sep 23, 2019 4:33 am Post subject: |
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I don't even view Trez's production as what Kuz should be looking to match. I think the guy he has to match is Lou. _________________ “Christ did not die to forgive sinners who go on treasuring anything above seeing and savoring God. And people who would be happy in heaven if Christ were not there, will not be there."
- John Piper |
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Luminous8 Star Player
Joined: 26 Apr 2017 Posts: 2192
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Posted: Mon Sep 23, 2019 6:05 am Post subject: |
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Judah wrote: | I don't even view Trez's production as what Kuz should be looking to match. I think the guy he has to match is Lou. |
He just needs to be able to defend, make smart reads while not gunning, and hit all those open threes he took and missed last year. |
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ocho Retired Number
Joined: 24 May 2005 Posts: 53714
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Posted: Tue Sep 24, 2019 6:22 am Post subject: |
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Marc Stein:
Quote: | The Lakers increasingly fear Kuzma will not be ready for the start of training camp as his left foot continues to heal, league sources say. LA"s first two practices are Saturday |
_________________ 14-5-3-12 |
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numero-ocho Franchise Player
Joined: 27 Jul 2004 Posts: 18190 Location: Los Angeles, CA
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Posted: Tue Sep 24, 2019 10:37 am Post subject: |
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ocho wrote: | Marc Stein:
Quote: | The Lakers increasingly fear Kuzma will not be ready for the start of training camp as his left foot continues to heal, league sources say. LA"s first two practices are Saturday |
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Disappointing if true. That injury happened a month ago. I thought he'd have plenty of time to recover before training camp. _________________ "Suck it up. Don't be a baby. Do your job." - Kobe Bryant |
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