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ContagiousInspiration
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 1:30 pm    Post subject:

angrypuppy wrote:
What strikes me as weird is how quickly Turkey invaded after Trump mentioned that he was abandoning the Kurds. I don't care how well you plan something out in advance, it takes weeks to organize the troops and invade a country. Even if you assume that the military objectives with time tables were predetermined, and the logistical support well-planned, it still takes time to execute an invasion plan. There are too many last minute changes in enemy troop concentrations or placement, and time has to be given to prepare an organized, well executed thrust with multiple fighting units, all of which require coordination. Think about how many months it took the US to get started in their forays, even after landing the troops and establishing the support. And believe me, the Pentagon spends considerable time and energy on prepping in terms of objectives, time tables and logistics, even before the first troop transport plane lands.

This is something that has absolutely escaped the attention of the press as well.


The US even had them remove the defenses in advance so Turkey could kill them easier

US-backed Syrian Kurds to remove fortifications from Turkish border as part of ‘safe zone’ deal
By: The Associated Press   September 3
https://www.militarytimes.com/flashpoints/2019/09/03/us-backed-syrian-kurds-to-remove-fortifications-from-turkish-border-as-part-of-safe-zone-deal/
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 1:37 pm    Post subject:

I realize why he is cancelling Open Skies

Enough moles in US Military and Government to give Russia all they need vs Trump doesn't want the US to know about Russia?
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 1:50 pm    Post subject:

ChickenStu wrote:
^
Good stuff, ap. Also, can anyone comment on this...


Michael Salfino

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7m


The other thing about impeachment is that it’s not really 67 votes. The GOP has a senate majority. Trump can’t be impeached AND have a majority of the senate including Republicans vote to convict and THEN BE THE NOMINEE. So McConnell has to hold 51 senators. He can’t right now.

Michael Salfino

@MichaelSalfino


So the way this is going to work is that either McConnell holds 51 GOP senators (losing no more than two and Romney is gone) or the floodgates open and Trump is removed for a nominee who doesn’t have the baggage of a majority Senate conviction. This will happen overnight.


I think it's an interesting hypothesis but I haven't seen it anywhere else. I still think there is some kind of procedural trick where McConnell is able to kill a full blown trial while still saying the Senate took up impeachment. My bet is if McConnell is at all afraid he can't hold 51 senators, he never let's a vote happen no matter how he has to manipulate the rules. This is a guy who stole a SCOTUS seat without batting an eyelash. Even though he paid lip service to holding a trial, I don't believe him for a second. But I haven't seen or read this discussed by experts yet either.

The thing I've always said is one of the reasons to impeach is to force Senators to go on record and take a vote, thereby hamstringing Senators in purple and swing states. So I can see why McConnell would prevent that from happening, but I don't think he'd abandon Trump and pull a switcheroo for another nominee.

Lindsay Graham is already going around to all the GOP senators asking them to sign some oath to promise not to vote for impeachment because it's an illegitimate process by the evil Democrats.


Last edited by ChefLinda on Wed Oct 09, 2019 2:04 pm; edited 3 times in total
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 1:56 pm    Post subject:

^
The Russians must have crazy dirt on Graham.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 1:59 pm    Post subject:

ChickenStu wrote:
^
The Russians must have crazy dirt on Graham.


Oh, yeah. No doubt. He even said he was hacked way back when. I'll see if I can find the story.

CNN 12/14/16: Graham: Russians hacked my campaign email account

Quote:
Republican Sen. Lindsey Graham said Wednesday his campaign email account was hacked by Russians -- adding that the US needs to work together to stop this from happening.

"I do believe the Russians hacked into the (Democratic National Committee). I do believe they hacked into (John) Podesta's email account. They hacked into my campaign account," he told CNN's Wolf Blitzer on "The Situation Room." "I do believe that all the information released publicly hurt Clinton and didn't hurt Trump. I don't think the outcome of the election is in doubt. What we should do is not turn on each other but work as one people to push back on Russia."


How times have changed...
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 2:13 pm    Post subject:

John Harwood

@JohnJHarwood


new Fox News poll on whether Congress should impeach Trump and remove him from the presidency:

51% yes
40% no
3:09 PM · Oct 9, 2019·Twitter for iPhone
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 2:26 pm    Post subject:

ChickenStu wrote:
John Harwood

@JohnJHarwood


new Fox News poll on whether Congress should impeach Trump and remove him from the presidency:

51% yes
40% no
3:09 PM · Oct 9, 2019·Twitter for iPhone


Yup, was just about to post it. This the FIFTH CONSECUTIVE POLL with him underwater regards impeachment.

Fox News Poll: Record support for Trump impeachment

Quote:
Just over half of voters want President Trump impeached and removed from office, according to a Fox News Poll released Wednesday.

A new high of 51 percent wants Trump impeached and removed from office, another 4 percent want him impeached but not removed, and 40 percent oppose impeachment altogether. In July, 42 percent favored impeachment and removal, while 5 percent said impeach but don’t remove him, and 45 percent opposed impeachment.


Quote:
Among voters in swing counties (where Hillary Clinton and Trump were within 10 points in 2016), support for impeachment increased to 52 percent, up from 42 percent in July.


Quote:
Overall, by an 11-point margin, more voters (48%) believe Trump is “getting what he deserves” rather than that the impeachment inquiry is driven by “people out to get him.” (37%)
[I love that Fox asked this question this particular way. ]

The reason this is important, even if the Senate never convicts, is that it shows the American people are fed up with this criminal and there is building intensity to get rid of him. And if the Senate won't do it, they will. And I've been making this exact argument for the last year.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 3:21 pm    Post subject:

‘It’s easy to build alliances’

Man, I personally apologize to the US ally Kurds. This is so wrong
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 3:26 pm    Post subject:

Quote:
Fox News Poll: Record support for Trump impeachment



LINK


Quote:
Since July, support for impeachment increased among voters of all stripes: up 11 points among Democrats, 5 points among Republicans, and 3 among independents. Support also went up among some of Trump’s key constituencies, including white evangelical Christians (+5 points), white men without a college degree (+8), and rural whites (+10).

Among voters in swing counties (where Hillary Clinton and Trump were within 10 points in 2016), support for impeachment increased to 52 percent, up from 42 percent in July.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 4:26 pm    Post subject:

https://twitter.com/Mikel_Jollett/status/1182054902446444549


Wow, HRC really knew Trump better than anyone.

Quote:
Hillary Clinton in 2016:

“Turkey is at war with the Kurds... If Turkey cuts off the Trump Organization’s cash flow from Istanbul, will Trump allow that to influence how the U.S. juggles the interests of these 2 critical allies?"



Is this entire thing really about his (bleep) hotel business in Turkey? Seems more plausible than Pizzagate.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 4:34 pm    Post subject:

vanexelent wrote:
https://twitter.com/Mikel_Jollett/status/1182054902446444549


Wow, HRC really knew Trump better than anyone.

Quote:
Hillary Clinton in 2016:

“Turkey is at war with the Kurds... If Turkey cuts off the Trump Organization’s cash flow from Istanbul, will Trump allow that to influence how the U.S. juggles the interests of these 2 critical allies?"



Is this entire thing really about his (bleep) hotel business in Turkey? Seems more plausible than Pizzagate.


^^Big brained woman.. I liked it

How can money ever mean this much?
Hmm.. Trump Hotel Istanbul is a huge Organized Crime Money Laundering unit?
I thought he only owned the name and not the actual hotel?
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 4:40 pm    Post subject:

Anyone think the Coup is part resting on...

Pence was in on the whole scheme ..even going there in person etc..

Trump is dirty as all hell .. BUT.. He knows if he gets impeached so does Pence.. Trump will make sure of it himself same crimes... Republicans will never allow Pelosi Presidente...

If Trump falls so does Pence... They will burn Kurdish people with bombs before they let Trump fall..
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 6:16 pm    Post subject:

More internal numbers from the Fox News Poll:

Quote:
Trump should be impeached and removed from office:

12% of Trump voters
22% of conservatives
28% of white evangelicals
38% of rural whites

Fox News Poll: Record support for Trump impeachment
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 7:55 pm    Post subject:

ChefLinda wrote:
More internal numbers from the Fox News Poll:

Quote:
Trump should be impeached and removed from office:

12% of Trump voters
22% of conservatives
28% of white evangelicals
38% of rural whites

Fox News Poll: Record support for Trump impeachment


I hope you will take this with the spirit that is intended. You have been totally spot on in regards to your repeated warnings that we need to learn from the last Presidential election. One of those lessons is this focus on polls. Now we can quibble that the polls weren't technically wrong in 2016 because the popular vote went to Hilary. But the reality is that all the polls said that Hilary would win handily and that is not what occurred. We are WAY beyond polls at this point.

The Republican leadership is dug into their trench way too deep to care about how things are polling. They have chosen their hill to die on and it is Donald Trump. Those numbers could double or triple and it won't make a difference. They are way too proud to admit that they went all in on the wrong hand. They have already sacrificed any shred of integrity.

If the GOP had any desire to salvage their integrity, they wouldn't need the polls to influence them. They would be doing the right thing. There is just too much corruption, illegal behavior and lack of human decency occurring at this point for anyone who gives a (bleep) about those things to not have decided to make it stop. Public opinion is no longer a factor in the decision making.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 5:36 am    Post subject:

So Trump now railing against his own propaganda machine, aka Fox News.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 5:36 am    Post subject:

vanexelent wrote:
https://twitter.com/Mikel_Jollett/status/1182054902446444549


Wow, HRC really knew Trump better than anyone.

Quote:
Hillary Clinton in 2016:

“Turkey is at war with the Kurds... If Turkey cuts off the Trump Organization’s cash flow from Istanbul, will Trump allow that to influence how the U.S. juggles the interests of these 2 critical allies?"



Is this entire thing really about his (bleep) hotel business in Turkey? Seems more plausible than Pizzagate.


24 dimensional chess.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 6:16 am    Post subject:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/two-foreign-born-men-who-helped-giuliani-on-ukraine-arrested-on-campaign-finance-charges-11570714188


Interesting turn of events.

Quote:
Two Giuliani Associates Who Helped Him on Ukraine Arrested on Campaign-Finance Charges
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 6:56 am    Post subject:

Though we should be careful when we judge others for actions during different eras with different public sentiment, we should not ignore such actions either.

Maybe others herein realized the following, but I did not until this morning:

How an early Biden crime bill created the sentencing disparity for crack and cocaine trafficking

Quote:
Mayors pleaded for federal help to protect inner-city neighborhoods from traffickers. Black clergy members held vigils on street corners in New York City, calling cocaine a “new form of genocide.” In Washington, Democrats charged that the Reagan administration was surrendering the fight.

A 44-year-old Democratic senator from Delaware with a growing national profile stepped forward with a bill aimed at heading off the crisis.

The bipartisan legislation crafted by Joe Biden, which authorized new funding for drug treatment programs and stricter penalties for drug offenses, passed overwhelmingly, with the support of most black lawmakers, and was signed into law by President Ronald Reagan.

Later, a little-noticed provision in the law came to be viewed as one of the most racially slanted sentencing policies on record: a rule that treated crack cocaine as significantly worse than powder cocaine and ended up disproportionately punishing African Americans. [emphasis mine]

Sixteen years after its passage, Biden disavowed the provision, saying “the road to hell is paved with good intentions,” quoting nuns who taught him as a child. His campaign now calls the disparity in sentencing “a profound mistake” that he wants to reverse.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 7:03 am    Post subject:

ribeye wrote:
Though we should be careful when we judge others for actions during different eras with different public sentiment, we should not ignore such actions either.

Maybe others herein realized the following, but I did not until this morning:

How an early Biden crime bill created the sentencing disparity for crack and cocaine trafficking

Quote:
Mayors pleaded for federal help to protect inner-city neighborhoods from traffickers. Black clergy members held vigils on street corners in New York City, calling cocaine a “new form of genocide.” In Washington, Democrats charged that the Reagan administration was surrendering the fight.

A 44-year-old Democratic senator from Delaware with a growing national profile stepped forward with a bill aimed at heading off the crisis.

The bipartisan legislation crafted by Joe Biden, which authorized new funding for drug treatment programs and stricter penalties for drug offenses, passed overwhelmingly, with the support of most black lawmakers, and was signed into law by President Ronald Reagan.

Later, a little-noticed provision in the law came to be viewed as one of the most racially slanted sentencing policies on record: a rule that treated crack cocaine as significantly worse than powder cocaine and ended up disproportionately punishing African Americans. [emphasis mine]

Sixteen years after its passage, Biden disavowed the provision, saying “the road to hell is paved with good intentions,” quoting nuns who taught him as a child. His campaign now calls the disparity in sentencing “a profound mistake” that he wants to reverse.


Wasn't that talked about in one of the first debates, when they were piling on Biden?
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 7:04 am    Post subject:

Biden had a pretty interesting dig on Warren during his impeachment endorsing speech yesterday

https://www.politico.com/news/2019/10/10/joe-biden-donald-trump-attack-043778

Quote:
“It takes a proven ability to get things done,” Biden said in Manchester. “We’re not electing a planner.”



Kind of how I've always felt about Warren even though I will gladly vote for her if the fabricated Ukraine thing actually pulls down Biden. ( the goal is to win, period.)

But say we would win with either- can Warren supporters at least acknowledge that in this current senate, Biden would probably be able to get more democrat- centric bills passed in his first 4 years?

Ergo, Kind of my secret fantasy that Joe wins the nom, picks Warren for VP (which she selflessly accepts) and then he steps down either at the start of term 2, or take a risk, and step down at the end of term 1.

Warren picks mayor Pete or AOC as VP- and progressive stuff starts to happen.

Win-win right?
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 7:05 am    Post subject:

vanexelent wrote:

Wasn't that talked about in one of the first debates, when they were piling on Biden?

Possibly. I didn't watch all of it, but I don't recall that issue.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 7:19 am    Post subject:

The crime bill issue has come up many times. In 2016 Hillary Clinton got beat-up by the talking point that Hillary supported the crime bill. It was pointed out many times that it was Bill Clinton that passed the crime bill and Joe Biden that wrote it. It became one of the issues that Russians selected to push on Facebook ads targeting black voters because it was racially divisive. It was especially effective on younger black voters who didn't know the full history of the bill. It helped depress the black vote, and helped Trump win. Draw your own conclusions.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 7:19 am    Post subject:

ribeye wrote:
vanexelent wrote:

Wasn't that talked about in one of the first debates, when they were piling on Biden?

Possibly. I didn't watch all of it, but I don't recall that issue.

It was most certainly brought up, by Booker.
I was a kid when crack first came on to the scene and I wasn't aware of racial stuff in my young mind at that time but I will say, there was a Mcgruff crime dog-type, anti crack cocaine campaign all throughout the media that was meant to reach Teens. (I especially remember an anti crack rap: "leave that crack alone")
The fact that that my example used rap as the message delivery device might have been intentional but I think a lot of people were scared as hell of how hard crack hit.
I always think of Spike Lee's "Jungle Fever" scenes with Sam Jackson and Hallie Berry to address Lee's view of the crack epidemic...
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 7:22 am    Post subject:

ChefLinda wrote:
The crime bill issue has come up many times. In 2016 Hillary Clinton got beat-up by the talking point that Hillary supported the crime bill. It was pointed out many times that it was Bill Clinton that passed the crime bill and Joe Biden that wrote it. It became one of the issues that Russians selected to push on Facebook ads targeting black voters because it was racially divisive. It was especially effective on younger black voters who didn't know the full history of the bill. It helped depress the black vote, and helped Trump win. Draw your own conclusions.


it was and is def a russian tactic to use but it's not unfair to ask. Those guys did pass the legislation. Biden needs a better answer then just 'road to hell is paved with good intention'
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 7:36 am    Post subject:

eddiejonze wrote:

But say we would win with either- can Warren supporters at least acknowledge that in this current senate, Biden would probably be able to get more democrat- centric bills passed in his first 4 years?


I wish. But not on Mitch McConnell's watch. Obama had 2 of the most obstructionist Congresses in US history, back to back. Supreme Court nomination ignored. Government shutdown.
Unless the filibuster is destroyed and Dems have majorities in the House and Senate, nothing is getting done. For Biden or Warren.
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