Star Wars Episode IX: The Rise of Skywalker
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ocho
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2019 9:27 am    Post subject:

lakersken80 wrote:
Star Wars like Star Trek shows how hard it is to remake a cultural phenomenon. I doubt these 3 sequels will ever be put in the same vein as the original trilogy even though it made Disney a lot of money.


Probably, but there’s a whole generation of kids right now who don’t live on the internet and love these movies.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2019 9:59 am    Post subject:

ocho wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
ocho wrote:
That’s true in the general sense that any internet discussion of anything has some element of dumpster fire to it, but the uproar over TLJ went above and beyond. The nastiest film internet bile gets reserved for genre movies headed by a female (like the female Ghostbuster’s remake that was hated before it even opened). Star Wars just happens to sit perfectly at the junction of that kind of fan, entitled geek culture neckbeards, and middle aged types that see any change to the characters or story as an affront to their upbringing. I’m happy to discuss TLJ on the merits (and did so in that thread) but here and elsewhere it was hard to miss that pretty quickly the conversation devolves into those kinds of complaints.


I’m talking about the whole flap about gamers gate or whatever it was called, with whatever website got into the middle of all of that. I was oblivious at the time, but since then I’ve been appalled by some of the bile that came spewing out. I think that’s where terms like SJW became popular. This makes me discount anything like that now. Most ordinary people bailed out on those discussions, leaving the lunatics to call each other names. I see that stuff from time to time and just wonder if these people have anything remotely resembling a life.


Well that answer is obvious. The internet permanently removed the rock they used to live under. Now they can all find each other, organize and mobilize.


I guess, but I really thought these people would grow out of it. This appears not to be happening. Anyway, my point is just that all of the rot on the internet about these movies probably isn't representative of anything.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2019 10:04 am    Post subject:

loslakersss wrote:
I don't get the Rey hate either. The same thing that made Boba Fett so popular is what makes her unpopular - the mysteriousness. Weird.


Not even close. Boba looked cool and he talked to Vader like he was a no one. And at least we can draw some conclusions from his character just by knowing hes a bounty hunter. Rey is a character we still know nothing about but has the ability to do everything really well and we should just accept the things she does because she can. Not really a close comparison.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2019 10:13 am    Post subject:

LakesGnrLake wrote:
loslakersss wrote:
I don't get the Rey hate either. The same thing that made Boba Fett so popular is what makes her unpopular - the mysteriousness. Weird.


Not even close. Boba looked cool and he talked to Vader like he was a no one. And at least we can draw some conclusions from his character just by knowing hes a bounty hunter. Rey is a character we still know nothing about but has the ability to do everything really well and we should just accept the things she does because she can. Not really a close comparison.


Okay I may have oversimplified Boba but Rey isn't just some OP character for the sake of being OP. As much as people hate Ep 1 it did display that characters with no force/jedi training could still do incredible things based on raw ability (pod racing and flying to blow up the space station at the end).
Plus Rey was shown to have some combat experience on Jaaku so picking up a lightsaber and doing okay against a guy with a crossbow wound isn't that far-fetched.

Do we really need to know more about her to explain her powers? I think it's pretty straightforward that some people are more powerful with the force than others and Rey happens to be one of the strongest ones. Whether it's by chance or being 'chosen' by the force is the mystery.
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ocho
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2019 10:14 am    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
ocho wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
ocho wrote:
That’s true in the general sense that any internet discussion of anything has some element of dumpster fire to it, but the uproar over TLJ went above and beyond. The nastiest film internet bile gets reserved for genre movies headed by a female (like the female Ghostbuster’s remake that was hated before it even opened). Star Wars just happens to sit perfectly at the junction of that kind of fan, entitled geek culture neckbeards, and middle aged types that see any change to the characters or story as an affront to their upbringing. I’m happy to discuss TLJ on the merits (and did so in that thread) but here and elsewhere it was hard to miss that pretty quickly the conversation devolves into those kinds of complaints.


I’m talking about the whole flap about gamers gate or whatever it was called, with whatever website got into the middle of all of that. I was oblivious at the time, but since then I’ve been appalled by some of the bile that came spewing out. I think that’s where terms like SJW became popular. This makes me discount anything like that now. Most ordinary people bailed out on those discussions, leaving the lunatics to call each other names. I see that stuff from time to time and just wonder if these people have anything remotely resembling a life.


Well that answer is obvious. The internet permanently removed the rock they used to live under. Now they can all find each other, organize and mobilize.


I guess, but I really thought these people would grow out of it. This appears not to be happening. Anyway, my point is just that all of the rot on the internet about these movies probably isn't representative of anything.


I agree that it impacts internet discourse more than anything. These movies still make a ton of money and audiences generally love them.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2019 10:18 am    Post subject:

loslakersss wrote:
LakesGnrLake wrote:
loslakersss wrote:
I don't get the Rey hate either. The same thing that made Boba Fett so popular is what makes her unpopular - the mysteriousness. Weird.


Not even close. Boba looked cool and he talked to Vader like he was a no one. And at least we can draw some conclusions from his character just by knowing hes a bounty hunter. Rey is a character we still know nothing about but has the ability to do everything really well and we should just accept the things she does because she can. Not really a close comparison.


Okay I may have oversimplified Boba but Rey isn't just some OP character for the sake of being OP. As much as people hate Ep 1 it did display that characters with no force/jedi training could still do incredible things based on raw ability (pod racing and flying to blow up the space station at the end).
Plus Rey was shown to have some combat experience on Jaaku so picking up a lightsaber and doing okay against a guy with a crossbow wound isn't that far-fetched.

Do we really need to know more about her to explain her powers? I think it's pretty straightforward that some people are more powerful with the force than others and Rey happens to be one of the strongest ones. Whether it's by chance or being 'chosen' by the force is the mystery.


Luke was “trained” for about 20 seconds by Obi Wan before he was able to deflect blaster attacks blindfolded and use the force to blow up a Death Star. I’ll leave it to you guys to surmise the discrepancy.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2019 10:39 am    Post subject:

ocho wrote:

Probably, but there’s a whole generation of kids right now who don’t live on the internet


I agree with your assessments of the loudest critiques of these movies but disagree with this statement. Kids now don't just live on the internet, they eat sleep and breathe the internet.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2019 10:41 am    Post subject:

ocho wrote:
loslakersss wrote:
LakesGnrLake wrote:
loslakersss wrote:
I don't get the Rey hate either. The same thing that made Boba Fett so popular is what makes her unpopular - the mysteriousness. Weird.


Not even close. Boba looked cool and he talked to Vader like he was a no one. And at least we can draw some conclusions from his character just by knowing hes a bounty hunter. Rey is a character we still know nothing about but has the ability to do everything really well and we should just accept the things she does because she can. Not really a close comparison.


Okay I may have oversimplified Boba but Rey isn't just some OP character for the sake of being OP. As much as people hate Ep 1 it did display that characters with no force/jedi training could still do incredible things based on raw ability (pod racing and flying to blow up the space station at the end).
Plus Rey was shown to have some combat experience on Jaaku so picking up a lightsaber and doing okay against a guy with a crossbow wound isn't that far-fetched.

Do we really need to know more about her to explain her powers? I think it's pretty straightforward that some people are more powerful with the force than others and Rey happens to be one of the strongest ones. Whether it's by chance or being 'chosen' by the force is the mystery.


Luke was “trained” for about 20 seconds by Obi Wan before he was able to deflect blaster attacks blindfolded and use the force to blow up a Death Star. I’ll leave it to you guys to surmise the discrepancy.


Luke mainly relied on his pilot skills for that feat though.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2019 10:45 am    Post subject:

vanexelent wrote:
ocho wrote:
loslakersss wrote:
LakesGnrLake wrote:
loslakersss wrote:
I don't get the Rey hate either. The same thing that made Boba Fett so popular is what makes her unpopular - the mysteriousness. Weird.


Not even close. Boba looked cool and he talked to Vader like he was a no one. And at least we can draw some conclusions from his character just by knowing hes a bounty hunter. Rey is a character we still know nothing about but has the ability to do everything really well and we should just accept the things she does because she can. Not really a close comparison.


Okay I may have oversimplified Boba but Rey isn't just some OP character for the sake of being OP. As much as people hate Ep 1 it did display that characters with no force/jedi training could still do incredible things based on raw ability (pod racing and flying to blow up the space station at the end).
Plus Rey was shown to have some combat experience on Jaaku so picking up a lightsaber and doing okay against a guy with a crossbow wound isn't that far-fetched.

Do we really need to know more about her to explain her powers? I think it's pretty straightforward that some people are more powerful with the force than others and Rey happens to be one of the strongest ones. Whether it's by chance or being 'chosen' by the force is the mystery.


Luke was “trained” for about 20 seconds by Obi Wan before he was able to deflect blaster attacks blindfolded and use the force to blow up a Death Star. I’ll leave it to you guys to surmise the discrepancy.


Luke mainly relied on his pilot skills for that feat though.


Not at the end when he turns off his locator/radar/whatever it's called and "uses the force".
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2019 10:56 am    Post subject:

Huey Lewis & The News wrote:
ocho wrote:

Probably, but there’s a whole generation of kids right now who don’t live on the internet


I agree with your assessments of the loudest critiques of these movies but disagree with this statement. Kids now don't just live on the internet, they eat sleep and breathe the internet.


I’m referring to little kids. They may well be engaging with aspects of the internet but too young to be trolling Twitter/forums.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2019 12:00 pm    Post subject:

ocho wrote:
loslakersss wrote:
LakesGnrLake wrote:
loslakersss wrote:
I don't get the Rey hate either. The same thing that made Boba Fett so popular is what makes her unpopular - the mysteriousness. Weird.


Not even close. Boba looked cool and he talked to Vader like he was a no one. And at least we can draw some conclusions from his character just by knowing hes a bounty hunter. Rey is a character we still know nothing about but has the ability to do everything really well and we should just accept the things she does because she can. Not really a close comparison.


Okay I may have oversimplified Boba but Rey isn't just some OP character for the sake of being OP. As much as people hate Ep 1 it did display that characters with no force/jedi training could still do incredible things based on raw ability (pod racing and flying to blow up the space station at the end).
Plus Rey was shown to have some combat experience on Jaaku so picking up a lightsaber and doing okay against a guy with a crossbow wound isn't that far-fetched.

Do we really need to know more about her to explain her powers? I think it's pretty straightforward that some people are more powerful with the force than others and Rey happens to be one of the strongest ones. Whether it's by chance or being 'chosen' by the force is the mystery.


Luke was “trained” for about 20 seconds by Obi Wan before he was able to deflect blaster attacks blindfolded and use the force to blow up a Death Star. I’ll leave it to you guys to surmise the discrepancy.


according to cannon Luke was more trained by yoda than he was with Obi Wan
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2019 12:11 pm    Post subject:

999 wrote:
ocho wrote:
loslakersss wrote:
LakesGnrLake wrote:
loslakersss wrote:
I don't get the Rey hate either. The same thing that made Boba Fett so popular is what makes her unpopular - the mysteriousness. Weird.


Not even close. Boba looked cool and he talked to Vader like he was a no one. And at least we can draw some conclusions from his character just by knowing hes a bounty hunter. Rey is a character we still know nothing about but has the ability to do everything really well and we should just accept the things she does because she can. Not really a close comparison.


Okay I may have oversimplified Boba but Rey isn't just some OP character for the sake of being OP. As much as people hate Ep 1 it did display that characters with no force/jedi training could still do incredible things based on raw ability (pod racing and flying to blow up the space station at the end).
Plus Rey was shown to have some combat experience on Jaaku so picking up a lightsaber and doing okay against a guy with a crossbow wound isn't that far-fetched.

Do we really need to know more about her to explain her powers? I think it's pretty straightforward that some people are more powerful with the force than others and Rey happens to be one of the strongest ones. Whether it's by chance or being 'chosen' by the force is the mystery.


Luke was “trained” for about 20 seconds by Obi Wan before he was able to deflect blaster attacks blindfolded and use the force to blow up a Death Star. I’ll leave it to you guys to surmise the discrepancy.


according to cannon Luke was more trained by yoda than he was with Obi Wan


The events I cited happen before he meets Yoda.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2019 1:20 pm    Post subject:

ocho wrote:
999 wrote:
ocho wrote:
loslakersss wrote:
LakesGnrLake wrote:
loslakersss wrote:
I don't get the Rey hate either. The same thing that made Boba Fett so popular is what makes her unpopular - the mysteriousness. Weird.


Not even close. Boba looked cool and he talked to Vader like he was a no one. And at least we can draw some conclusions from his character just by knowing hes a bounty hunter. Rey is a character we still know nothing about but has the ability to do everything really well and we should just accept the things she does because she can. Not really a close comparison.


Okay I may have oversimplified Boba but Rey isn't just some OP character for the sake of being OP. As much as people hate Ep 1 it did display that characters with no force/jedi training could still do incredible things based on raw ability (pod racing and flying to blow up the space station at the end).
Plus Rey was shown to have some combat experience on Jaaku so picking up a lightsaber and doing okay against a guy with a crossbow wound isn't that far-fetched.

Do we really need to know more about her to explain her powers? I think it's pretty straightforward that some people are more powerful with the force than others and Rey happens to be one of the strongest ones. Whether it's by chance or being 'chosen' by the force is the mystery.


Luke was “trained” for about 20 seconds by Obi Wan before he was able to deflect blaster attacks blindfolded and use the force to blow up a Death Star. I’ll leave it to you guys to surmise the discrepancy.


according to cannon Luke was more trained by yoda than he was with Obi Wan


The events I cited happen before he meets Yoda.


i get it... but your the son of Anakin Skywalker. the best there was in the galaxy. Luke was already a good pilot and he always carried that chip on his shoulder like Anakin... dude was just boss in 4-6

Who is Rey? unless she is a clone of Anakin made to be female than yea The force would come easy to her like we saw it with Luke in the first films..... wait... i hope that's not the plot to rise of skywalker
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2019 1:29 pm    Post subject:

999 wrote:
ocho wrote:
999 wrote:
ocho wrote:
loslakersss wrote:
LakesGnrLake wrote:
loslakersss wrote:
I don't get the Rey hate either. The same thing that made Boba Fett so popular is what makes her unpopular - the mysteriousness. Weird.


Not even close. Boba looked cool and he talked to Vader like he was a no one. And at least we can draw some conclusions from his character just by knowing hes a bounty hunter. Rey is a character we still know nothing about but has the ability to do everything really well and we should just accept the things she does because she can. Not really a close comparison.


Okay I may have oversimplified Boba but Rey isn't just some OP character for the sake of being OP. As much as people hate Ep 1 it did display that characters with no force/jedi training could still do incredible things based on raw ability (pod racing and flying to blow up the space station at the end).
Plus Rey was shown to have some combat experience on Jaaku so picking up a lightsaber and doing okay against a guy with a crossbow wound isn't that far-fetched.

Do we really need to know more about her to explain her powers? I think it's pretty straightforward that some people are more powerful with the force than others and Rey happens to be one of the strongest ones. Whether it's by chance or being 'chosen' by the force is the mystery.


Luke was “trained” for about 20 seconds by Obi Wan before he was able to deflect blaster attacks blindfolded and use the force to blow up a Death Star. I’ll leave it to you guys to surmise the discrepancy.


according to cannon Luke was more trained by yoda than he was with Obi Wan


The events I cited happen before he meets Yoda.


i get it... but your the son of Anakin Skywalker. the best there was in the galaxy. Luke was already a good pilot and he always carried that chip on his shoulder like Anakin... dude was just boss in 4-6

Who is Rey? unless she is a clone of Anakin made to be female than yea The force would come easy to her like we saw it with Luke in the first films..... wait... i hope that's not the plot to rise of skywalker


Why does someone have to be a Skywalker to be powerful with the force? And Rey was a kickass pilot too - remember when she first gets in the Millennium Falcon? I think was an indicator of her abilities just like when Luke and Anakin were great pilots the very first time they flew things when all they'd previously piloted were speeders on Tatooine.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2019 1:59 pm    Post subject:

Cutting down on quote tree but I can see that she is gifted in some respects. That's the least of her problems. But her being able to force mind control a stormtrooper, defeat a dark jedi(yes Kylo was badly hurt when they first met) and use other force powers when she hasn't really done anything is just strange. It's understandable if she's connected to someone more powerful but that should have been something that was explained last movie. This is going to be the end of this trilogy and we are just barely going to be figuring out who Rey is.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2019 2:12 pm    Post subject:

Quote:
This is going to be the end of this trilogy and we are just barely going to be figuring out who Rey is.


Unless you’ve been expecting some big reveal about her parentage this simply isn’t true. We’ve gotten to know her quite well.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2019 2:46 pm    Post subject:

The one Rey thing I didn't like in Force Awakens is how she her most unique power was that she was a super linguist who could seemingly communicate with anyone regardless of their language. I didn't understand how she could immediately communicate with BB8. With that said, she is probably my second favorite new character. Rose Tico, on the other hand, could be my least favorite character in any movie ever. I thought basically any scene she was in was cringe worthy. Judging by her lack of screen time in the trailer, I think Disney heard that message.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2019 3:25 pm    Post subject:

ocho wrote:
Quote:
This is going to be the end of this trilogy and we are just barely going to be figuring out who Rey is.


Unless you’ve been expecting some big reveal about her parentage this simply isn’t true. We’ve gotten to know her quite well.


Maybe it was just me but when The Force Awakens there was this weird vibe that everyone knew who she was. Especially when Leia went to hug her when Han died instead of Chewie, but I'm starting to think that was just bad writing now. She's definitely not the WORST part of this trilogy. Just disappointing writing all around. Who would have thought the first standalone movie would be the best thing that came from these new Star Wars movies. Hoping the Mandalorian is as good as it seems it's going to be.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2019 3:43 pm    Post subject:

LakesGnrLake wrote:
ocho wrote:
Quote:
This is going to be the end of this trilogy and we are just barely going to be figuring out who Rey is.


Unless you’ve been expecting some big reveal about her parentage this simply isn’t true. We’ve gotten to know her quite well.


Maybe it was just me but when The Force Awakens there was this weird vibe that everyone knew who she was. Especially when Leia went to hug her when Han died instead of Chewie, but I'm starting to think that was just bad writing now. She's definitely not the WORST part of this trilogy. Just disappointing writing all around. Who would have thought the first standalone movie would be the best thing that came from these new Star Wars movies. Hoping the Mandalorian is as good as it seems it's going to be.


I agree about Rey. There were a lot of fun places they could have gone with her parentage. The second movie picked an answer that was surprising, I suppose, but not much fun. In fact, “surprising but not much fun” could have been the subtitle of the second film. I say that even though I enjoyed the second film overall.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 8:47 am    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
loslakersss wrote:
ocho wrote:
loslakersss wrote:
I don't get the Rey hate either. The same thing that made Boba Fett so popular is what makes her unpopular - the mysteriousness. Weird.


One of the unmistakable conclusions from these discussions in general is how often the original trilogy wouldn’t hold up to the same criticisms of the new trilogy.


Was ROTJ heavily criticized upon release because of the ewoks or is that just overblown now?


“Heavily” would be an exaggeration. It did draw a fair bit of criticism for injecting such a blatant product placement device into the movie.


Ewoks were going to be Wookies until it was decided not to make Endor Chewie's home world. So they made short, cute Wookies that just happened to sell a lot of stuffed dolls. They really went overboard with the "cute" - hopefully to differentiate it from Wookies.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2019 7:10 am    Post subject:

LakersRGolden wrote:
Ewoks were going to be Wookies until it was decided not to make Endor Chewie's home world. So they made short, cute Wookies that just happened to sell a lot of stuffed dolls. They really went overboard with the "cute" - hopefully to differentiate it from Wookies.


I've heard that story. It sounds plausible. However . . . so much BS has come out of George Lucas and his crew over the last few decades that I take everything with a grain of salt. The Lucas machine engages in constant self-mythologization. It's hard to know what to believe.

I got my first taste of this about 25 years ago, when Lucas and his crew started claiming that Star Wars was a low budget film. Um, no. By today's standards (adjusting for inflation), it had a modest budget for an action film. But then, studios invest $250M on garbage these days, partly because Star Wars taught everyone that one big gusher could cover for lot of dry holes. By the standards of the time, Star Wars was absolutely not a low budget film. But it's better for The Legend of George Lucas to portray it as something that he put together in his garage.

So when I hear stories like the one you cite, part of me is skeptical. The Wookie/Ewok story makes it sound like an artistic decision, not a money grab. That's possible, but then Lucas made two Ewok movies and then gave us Jar Jar Binks. Color me cynical.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2019 7:38 am    Post subject:

Vishnu wrote:
The one Rey thing I didn't like in Force Awakens is how she her most unique power was that she was a super linguist who could seemingly communicate with anyone regardless of their language. I didn't understand how she could immediately communicate with BB8. With that said, she is probably my second favorite new character. Rose Tico, on the other hand, could be my least favorite character in any movie ever. I thought basically any scene she was in was cringe worthy. Judging by her lack of screen time in the trailer, I think Disney heard that message.


Rey’s up there as one my new favorites as well.

It was immensely disappointing to even see RT in the trailer (bolded), still holding out hope her role will be reduced to a cameo like Jar-Jar-Binks in Episode III.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2019 8:56 am    Post subject:

Rey is (bleep) cool. No one knows what she wants, where se comes from, what she will do.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2019 9:36 am    Post subject:

Rey is kind of a grey version of Luke. They both come from mysterious backgrounds with unexplained force sensitivity. But why Luke's eventually gets explained, Rey's is shown to be more by chance (unless they change her parentage later). She also is flirting with the dark side so we don't really know if she will turn. Will Luke we knew he was unshakable; he would always do the right thing but would this get him killed? With Rey we are questioning if she will turn or not which is just as - if not more - intriguing.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2019 1:04 pm    Post subject:

They’re going have to do a lot of explaining for Reys background and Snoke in this new one since Rian Johnson decides to completely destroy what Abrams was building in Ep 7
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