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LongBeachPoly
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Joined: 14 Jul 2012
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 Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 12:53 am Post subject: |
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| Steve007 wrote: | | ChickenStu wrote: | | The thing is, Kershaw's ERA in the postseason is just a shade under 4.50. If every single outing he had in the postseason was 6 innings and 3 ER allowed, you'd be in every single game. He's pitched games a lot better than that in the postseason, of course. The problem is that he's been prone to those blow-up outings, I think at least 40% of the time. Those are killers. He's so reliable in the regular season, and he's been anything-but in the postseason. |
If he never did better than 6 innings and 3 runs allowed wouldn’t that be a big problem? I want more from my ace. He would win some of the blow-up outings and lose some of the gems he pitched if every outing was 3 runs in 6 innings. So I doubt his overall record would be much better.
He would avoid the embarrassing blow-up starts which really get him criticized, but over time, allowing 3 runs in 6 innings every start would give him a record much worse than his regular season record, a 4.50 era, probably zero rings, and people would start to notice and criticize him.
Yes, the blow-ups are a BIG problem, but I think there will always be a significant problem if your era stays at 4.50 in the playoffs over a long period of time. |
Yeah 6ip 3r is a pretty good game in the playoffs.
Of course you want more. Who doesn’t want more.
I want more when Hill takes the mound.
But honestly, any starter that gives you 6ip n 3r in the playoffs, you’ll take that. |
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SGV-Laker fan
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Joined: 23 May 2013
Posts: 8880
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| Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 6:57 am Post subject: |
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| LongBeachPoly wrote: | | Steve007 wrote: | | ChickenStu wrote: | | The thing is, Kershaw's ERA in the postseason is just a shade under 4.50. If every single outing he had in the postseason was 6 innings and 3 ER allowed, you'd be in every single game. He's pitched games a lot better than that in the postseason, of course. The problem is that he's been prone to those blow-up outings, I think at least 40% of the time. Those are killers. He's so reliable in the regular season, and he's been anything-but in the postseason. |
If he never did better than 6 innings and 3 runs allowed wouldn’t that be a big problem? I want more from my ace. He would win some of the blow-up outings and lose some of the gems he pitched if every outing was 3 runs in 6 innings. So I doubt his overall record would be much better.
He would avoid the embarrassing blow-up starts which really get him criticized, but over time, allowing 3 runs in 6 innings every start would give him a record much worse than his regular season record, a 4.50 era, probably zero rings, and people would start to notice and criticize him.
Yes, the blow-ups are a BIG problem, but I think there will always be a significant problem if your era stays at 4.50 in the playoffs over a long period of time. |
Yeah 6ip 3r is a pretty good game in the playoffs.
Of course you want more. Who doesn’t want more.
I want more when Hill takes the mound.
But honestly, any starter that gives you 6ip n 3r in the playoffs, you’ll take that. |
that's a good game, hell a damn good game for any starting pitcher, but not acceptable for Kershaw. who's ERA have hovered below 3 almost his entire career. especially unacceptable during playoffs where games are usually low scoring. |
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loslakersss
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Joined: 31 Dec 2008
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Location: LA
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| Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 9:41 am Post subject: |
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| I'm really starting to wonder if we're just a pretty good team in a really bad division. |
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nickuku
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Joined: 09 Jul 2010
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Location: Orange County
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| Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 10:13 am Post subject: |
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| loslakersss wrote: | | I'm really starting to wonder if we're just a pretty good team in a really bad division. |
We're an elite team that has a terrible playoff manager.
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LongBeachPoly
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Joined: 14 Jul 2012
Posts: 16158
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| Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 10:25 am Post subject: |
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| SGV-Laker fan wrote: | | LongBeachPoly wrote: | | Steve007 wrote: | | ChickenStu wrote: | | The thing is, Kershaw's ERA in the postseason is just a shade under 4.50. If every single outing he had in the postseason was 6 innings and 3 ER allowed, you'd be in every single game. He's pitched games a lot better than that in the postseason, of course. The problem is that he's been prone to those blow-up outings, I think at least 40% of the time. Those are killers. He's so reliable in the regular season, and he's been anything-but in the postseason. |
If he never did better than 6 innings and 3 runs allowed wouldn’t that be a big problem? I want more from my ace. He would win some of the blow-up outings and lose some of the gems he pitched if every outing was 3 runs in 6 innings. So I doubt his overall record would be much better.
He would avoid the embarrassing blow-up starts which really get him criticized, but over time, allowing 3 runs in 6 innings every start would give him a record much worse than his regular season record, a 4.50 era, probably zero rings, and people would start to notice and criticize him.
Yes, the blow-ups are a BIG problem, but I think there will always be a significant problem if your era stays at 4.50 in the playoffs over a long period of time. |
Yeah 6ip 3r is a pretty good game in the playoffs.
Of course you want more. Who doesn’t want more.
I want more when Hill takes the mound.
But honestly, any starter that gives you 6ip n 3r in the playoffs, you’ll take that. |
that's a good game, hell a damn good game for any starting pitcher, but not acceptable for Kershaw. who's ERA have hovered below 3 almost his entire career. especially unacceptable during playoffs where games are usually low scoring. |
Yeah if 6ip 3r is not acceptable for Kershaw then we should have started him in game 1. But I don’t recall anyone clamoring to start him in game 1. |
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ribeye
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| Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 10:32 am Post subject: |
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| LongBeachPoly wrote: |
Yeah if 6ip 3r is not acceptable for Kershaw then we should have started him in game 1. But I don’t recall anyone clamoring to start him in game 1. |
I don't understand your point. |
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loslakersss
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Joined: 31 Dec 2008
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Location: LA
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| Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 11:16 am Post subject: |
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| ribeye wrote: | | LongBeachPoly wrote: |
Yeah if 6ip 3r is not acceptable for Kershaw then we should have started him in game 1. But I don’t recall anyone clamoring to start him in game 1. |
I don't understand your point. |
I think he means that if we expect a better start than that from Kershaw then it would mean we still think he's elite. But 6ip and 3er should be acceptable for a past-his-prime starter. |
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greenfrog
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| Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 12:42 pm Post subject: |
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| loslakersss wrote: | | I'm really starting to wonder if we're just a pretty good team in a really bad division. |
Try league. |
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Steve007
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Joined: 21 Jul 2006
Posts: 13227
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| Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 2:40 pm Post subject: |
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| SGV-Laker fan wrote: | | LongBeachPoly wrote: | | Steve007 wrote: | | ChickenStu wrote: | | The thing is, Kershaw's ERA in the postseason is just a shade under 4.50. If every single outing he had in the postseason was 6 innings and 3 ER allowed, you'd be in every single game. He's pitched games a lot better than that in the postseason, of course. The problem is that he's been prone to those blow-up outings, I think at least 40% of the time. Those are killers. He's so reliable in the regular season, and he's been anything-but in the postseason. |
If he never did better than 6 innings and 3 runs allowed wouldn’t that be a big problem? I want more from my ace. He would win some of the blow-up outings and lose some of the gems he pitched if every outing was 3 runs in 6 innings. So I doubt his overall record would be much better.
He would avoid the embarrassing blow-up starts which really get him criticized, but over time, allowing 3 runs in 6 innings every start would give him a record much worse than his regular season record, a 4.50 era, probably zero rings, and people would start to notice and criticize him.
Yes, the blow-ups are a BIG problem, but I think there will always be a significant problem if your era stays at 4.50 in the playoffs over a long period of time. |
Yeah 6ip 3r is a pretty good game in the playoffs.
Of course you want more. Who doesn’t want more.
I want more when Hill takes the mound.
But honestly, any starter that gives you 6ip n 3r in the playoffs, you’ll take that. |
that's a good game, hell a damn good game for any starting pitcher, but not acceptable for Kershaw. who's ERA have hovered below 3 almost his entire career. especially unacceptable during playoffs where games are usually low scoring. |
IMO you need pitchers that can dominate a game in the playoffs. This is one reason I favor power pitchers in the playoffs over the finesse pitchers. The finesse guys are less likely to give you those great starts with something like 7 innings and 2 or fewer runs allowed.
I’m more likely to be okay with 6 innings and 3 runs allowed if it’s from a #3 or #4 starter. And I’m much happier with that performance in the regular season when the opposition on average is much weaker. When the opposing pitcher is John Smith and your offense should be able to hit him (and the bullpen that backs him up), then 6 innings and allowing 3 runs is probably good enough. If the opposing pitcher is Strasberg, Cole or Buehler (or any of the Nationals starters), then I’m not at all confident that 6 innings and 3 runs is good enough and would expect to lose a lot of those games. You might win if the opposing pitcher is Kershaw though (man it sucks to think that but it’s true  ).
I think standards should be higher in the playoffs. You’re in there competing against the A and B students so you need to perform at a higher level to be a winner. In the regular season you face the A and B students, but much less often and you also face the C, D and F students. Those C, D and F students will often beat themselves.
Last edited by Steve007 on Wed Oct 23, 2019 2:45 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Steve007
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| Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 2:43 pm Post subject: |
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| loslakersss wrote: | | ribeye wrote: | | LongBeachPoly wrote: |
Yeah if 6ip 3r is not acceptable for Kershaw then we should have started him in game 1. But I don’t recall anyone clamoring to start him in game 1. |
I don't understand your point. |
I think he means that if we expect a better start than that from Kershaw then it would mean we still think he's elite. But 6ip and 3er should be acceptable for a past-his-prime starter. |
Kershaw would be the best starter on a lot of teams. I just wouldn’t start him over Buehler and Ryu because those guys are great pitchers. It confused me when Ryu didn’t start game 2. |
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loslakersss
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Joined: 31 Dec 2008
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Location: LA
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| Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 3:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Steve007 wrote: | | loslakersss wrote: | | ribeye wrote: | | LongBeachPoly wrote: |
Yeah if 6ip 3r is not acceptable for Kershaw then we should have started him in game 1. But I don’t recall anyone clamoring to start him in game 1. |
I don't understand your point. |
I think he means that if we expect a better start than that from Kershaw then it would mean we still think he's elite. But 6ip and 3er should be acceptable for a past-his-prime starter. |
Kershaw would be the best starter on a lot of teams. I just wouldn’t start him over Buehler and Ryu because those guys are great pitchers. It confused me when Ryu didn’t start game 2. |
Because we wouldn't have been able to use Kershaw in game 5 if we did that. And we won both game 2 and game 5 because of this. /s
(for the record I supported the decision but who doesn't love watching a good tragedy?) |
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ExPatLkrFan
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Joined: 29 Jul 2004
Posts: 3986
Location: Mukdahan, Thailand
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| Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 4:31 pm Post subject: |
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| greenfrog wrote: | | loslakersss wrote: | | I'm really starting to wonder if we're just a pretty good team in a really bad division. |
Try league. |
Actually it's the other way around. The AL had three 100 loss teams including Detroit that lost 114 games. They also had two more teams with over 90 losses and one with 89 losses. The NL on the other hand had just one 100 loss team and three over 90 losses. The AL this year had some really horrible teams. |
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JerryWest_44
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Joined: 22 May 2004
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| Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 6:30 pm Post subject: |
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| loslakersss wrote: | | I'm really starting to wonder if we're just a pretty good team in a really bad division. |
that’s always been the case ... The NL is weak... Nationals are just hot with two Aces |
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JerryWest_44
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| Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 6:31 pm Post subject: |
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| when is the MVP given? |
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LakerLanny
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| Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 7:22 pm Post subject: |
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| LongBeachPoly wrote: |
Yeah 6ip 3r is a pretty good game in the playoffs.
Of course you want more. Who doesn’t want more.
I want more when Hill takes the mound.
But honestly, any starter that gives you 6ip n 3r in the playoffs, you’ll take that. |
OK, but I trade him this off season if there are any takers.
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ChickenStu
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Location: Anaheim, CA
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| Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 7:42 pm Post subject: |
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| JerryWest_44 wrote: | | loslakersss wrote: | | I'm really starting to wonder if we're just a pretty good team in a really bad division. |
that’s always been the case ... The NL is weak... Nationals are just hot with two Aces |
The NL has won 5 World Series so far this decade, with the AL collecting 4 titles. If the Nats can win this year, the NL will have the winning margin 6-4 for the decade. I do agree that the AL has been the better league this decade, but it doesn't mean that you win the whole thing. |
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oasisdude77
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| Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 9:26 pm Post subject: |
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| ExPatLkrFan wrote: | | The demigod that is Gerrit Cole has given up 5 runs in 5 innings. Oops. |
And Verlander's world series record is 0-5 (should be 0-6) but people here continue to clamor over him constantly |
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Steve007
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| Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 9:54 pm Post subject: |
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| oasisdude77 wrote: | | ExPatLkrFan wrote: | | The demigod that is Gerrit Cole has given up 5 runs in 5 innings. Oops. |
And Verlander's world series record is 0-5 (should be 0-6) but people here continue to clamor over him constantly |
I guess he and Darvish are more alike than I thought. |
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Steve007
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| Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 10:48 pm Post subject: |
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| oasisdude77 wrote: | | ExPatLkrFan wrote: | | The demigod that is Gerrit Cole has given up 5 runs in 5 innings. Oops. |
And Verlander's world series record is 0-5 (should be 0-6) but people here continue to clamor over him constantly |
It’s a weird stat because he is 14-5 in the other rounds of the playoffs (maybe he does better against the Nationals in the first round). So he has shown he can pitch in the postseason. He has done better in his last couple of World Series but still has been disappointing.
I wonder if fatigue is a big reason. It makes sense that the final round is when a pitcher is most likely to run out of gas. |
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LongBeachPoly
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| Posted: Thu Oct 24, 2019 12:24 am Post subject: |
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| Steve007 wrote: | | loslakersss wrote: | | ribeye wrote: | | LongBeachPoly wrote: |
Yeah if 6ip 3r is not acceptable for Kershaw then we should have started him in game 1. But I don’t recall anyone clamoring to start him in game 1. |
I don't understand your point. |
I think he means that if we expect a better start than that from Kershaw then it would mean we still think he's elite. But 6ip and 3er should be acceptable for a past-his-prime starter. |
Kershaw would be the best starter on a lot of teams. I just wouldn’t start him over Buehler and Ryu because those guys are great pitchers. It confused me when Ryu didn’t start game 2. |
How many guys are there in the league where you expect better than 6ip 3r in the playoffs? |
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Surfitall
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Joined: 12 Feb 2002
Posts: 3829
Location: South Orange County
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| Posted: Thu Oct 24, 2019 5:29 am Post subject: |
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| So far it appear that were are the second best team behind the Nats. We’ve competed better than anyone else they’ve faced in the playoffs so far. Really impressed by what they’ve been able to do. |
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angrypuppy
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| Posted: Thu Oct 24, 2019 6:05 am Post subject: |
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| JerryWest_44 wrote: | | loslakersss wrote: | | I'm really starting to wonder if we're just a pretty good team in a really bad division. |
that’s always been the case ... The NL is weak... Nationals are just hot with two Aces |
That's what defined Dodger baseball and World Series championships in 1963 and 1965: Two dominant pitchers, a touch of luck, and just about nothing else. |
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ribeye
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| Posted: Thu Oct 24, 2019 6:07 am Post subject: |
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| Surfitall wrote: | | So far it appear that were are the second best team behind the Nats. We’ve competed better than anyone else they’ve faced in the playoffs so far. Really impressed by what they’ve been able to do. |
Tru dat.
Brewers: 0-1
Dodgers: 2-3 (losing in extra innings of game 5)
Cardinals: 0-4
Astros: 0-2
When you're hot, you're hot. |
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oasisdude77
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Joined: 02 Oct 2007
Posts: 2737
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| Posted: Thu Oct 24, 2019 10:14 am Post subject: |
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| ribeye wrote: | | Surfitall wrote: | | So far it appear that were are the second best team behind the Nats. We’ve competed better than anyone else they’ve faced in the playoffs so far. Really impressed by what they’ve been able to do. |
Tru dat.
Brewers: 0-1
Dodgers: 2-3 (losing in extra innings of game 5)
Cardinals: 0-4
Astros: 0-2
When you're hot, you're hot. |
It's insane man. Saw a stat on twitter that the Dodgers were the last team to beat the Nationals and that was back on October 6th.
Plus it just goes to show how crazy baseball is.
I can still remember turning on the wildcard game as Grandal launched that ball into the right field seats, and then Thames shortly followed up, I can still remember the depressed crowd shots. They pretty much stayed that way until the 8th when they scored those 3 runs.
And now they're 2 wins from the chip.
Baseball man... |
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aprevo15
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Joined: 08 Jun 2010
Posts: 5923
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| Posted: Thu Oct 24, 2019 10:46 am Post subject: |
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| ribeye wrote: | | Surfitall wrote: | | So far it appear that were are the second best team behind the Nats. We’ve competed better than anyone else they’ve faced in the playoffs so far. Really impressed by what they’ve been able to do. |
Tru dat.
Brewers: 0-1
Dodgers: 2-3 (losing in extra innings of game 5)
Cardinals: 0-4
Astros: 0-2
When you're hot, you're hot. |
This just makes it more depressing and frustrating. We had that game 5 and blew it big time. Not saying if the Dodgers were to advance then the outcome would be the same as the Nationals but just seeing them just man-handle the competition just makes me feel like the Dodgers would have done the same and finally win.
2017 WS and 2019 NLDS just stings a lot. Both series we had but let it slip away. |
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