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Luminous8 Star Player
Joined: 26 Apr 2017 Posts: 2192
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Posted: Tue Oct 22, 2019 10:42 am Post subject: |
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yinoma2001 wrote: | Crazy looking back at the 2016 draft:
1. Simmons-max
2. BI-no extension
3. Brown-29m/year deal
4. Bender (bust)
5. Dunn (bust0
6. Hield-100m ish extension
7. Murray-max
8. Chriss (sort of a bust)
9. Poetl (eh)
10. Maker (eh)
11. Sabonis (overpaid extension)
12. Prince (extended)
13. Papa G (bust)
14. Denzel (bust) |
I actually think Sabonis deal was pretty accurate. Not sure I’d call Denzel a bust. He was never expected to be more than a utility player and showed when healthy very capable of that role. Chriss and Bender both looking to break free from the bust label away from PHX and doing pretty good at it. |
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Luminous8 Star Player
Joined: 26 Apr 2017 Posts: 2192
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Posted: Tue Oct 22, 2019 10:46 am Post subject: |
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audioaxes wrote: | SocalDevin wrote: | hype wrote: | BigGameHames wrote: | SocalDevin wrote: | audioaxes wrote: | still not sold in BI. He still seems completely lost on how to contribute on offense without having the ball and his offense is not that good for someone who wants to ISO all the time.
so far looking like the Lakers made off well by trading him before the extension bill came due. |
He'll play however he's coached to play. It really is that simple. |
No he plays how he wants to. |
eh not really.. he changed his playing style quite a bit over the years doing whatever the coach asked.. it was one of my biggest criticisms early on is that it seemed like he was trying to be good at a bunch of things and several completely different roles versus focusing on certain aspects and excel at that in the first few years.
He's still a big question mark on just how good he will be but there is still no doubt he has elite potential imo just like Ball. They are both already really solid players but neither are great which is what is going to make the Pelicans so fun to watch this season along with Zion. |
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so last season the Lakers told Brandon to neglect practicing 3 point spot ups and just focus on throwing up contested mid range shots? And when the ball is not in his had to just kinda stand around with his hands on his hips instead of making cuts and screens? |
Just neglect mentioning facts. BI was top 10 in the league in movement followed close behind by Kuz. But keep pushing your narrative. |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Tue Oct 22, 2019 11:26 am Post subject: |
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Luminous8 wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | Crazy looking back at the 2016 draft:
1. Simmons-max
2. BI-no extension
3. Brown-29m/year deal
4. Bender (bust)
5. Dunn (bust0
6. Hield-100m ish extension
7. Murray-max
8. Chriss (sort of a bust)
9. Poetl (eh)
10. Maker (eh)
11. Sabonis (overpaid extension)
12. Prince (extended)
13. Papa G (bust)
14. Denzel (bust) |
I actually think Sabonis deal was pretty accurate. Not sure I’d call Denzel a bust. He was never expected to be more than a utility player and showed when healthy very capable of that role. Chriss and Bender both looking to break free from the bust label away from PHX and doing pretty good at it. |
I guess my definition of bust is if you're on multiple teams, not extended, and fighting to make a roster. These were lottery picks so starter isn't too high of a criteria, no? _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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BigGameHames Star Player
Joined: 24 May 2015 Posts: 7982
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Posted: Tue Oct 22, 2019 2:11 pm Post subject: |
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hype wrote: | BigGameHames wrote: | SocalDevin wrote: | audioaxes wrote: | still not sold in BI. He still seems completely lost on how to contribute on offense without having the ball and his offense is not that good for someone who wants to ISO all the time.
so far looking like the Lakers made off well by trading him before the extension bill came due. |
He'll play however he's coached to play. It really is that simple. |
No he plays how he wants to. |
eh not really.. he changed his playing style quite a bit over the years doing whatever the coach asked.. it was one of my biggest criticisms early on is that it seemed like he was trying to be good at a bunch of things and several completely different roles versus focusing on certain aspects and excel at that in the first few years.
He's still a big question mark on just how good he will be but there is still no doubt he has elite potential imo just like Ball. They are both already really solid players but neither are great which is what is going to make the Pelicans so fun to watch this season along with Zion. |
Yea I’ve never agreed much with that point of view. He always played his style no matter what role he played. Looked for the same shots, same reluctance to make the quick pass and take open 3s, over dribbling into traffi etc. he was put in many roles but how he played didn’t vary much. |
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BigGameHames Star Player
Joined: 24 May 2015 Posts: 7982
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Posted: Tue Oct 22, 2019 2:12 pm Post subject: |
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Luminous8 wrote: | venturalakersfan wrote: | BigGameHames wrote: | SocalDevin wrote: | audioaxes wrote: | still not sold in BI. He still seems completely lost on how to contribute on offense without having the ball and his offense is not that good for someone who wants to ISO all the time.
so far looking like the Lakers made off well by trading him before the extension bill came due. |
He'll play however he's coached to play. It really is that simple. |
No he plays how he wants to. |
Comments like that make one question if the poster has watched Laker games. It is just ignorant regarding the subject. |
He’s not going to rewrite the narrative when it doesn’t fit his clear cut bias. |
I’m not sure he’s disagreeing with my comment or the one I was responding to. Either way, I’m right |
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BigGameHames Star Player
Joined: 24 May 2015 Posts: 7982
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Posted: Tue Oct 22, 2019 2:13 pm Post subject: |
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audioaxes wrote: | SocalDevin wrote: | hype wrote: | BigGameHames wrote: | SocalDevin wrote: | audioaxes wrote: | still not sold in BI. He still seems completely lost on how to contribute on offense without having the ball and his offense is not that good for someone who wants to ISO all the time.
so far looking like the Lakers made off well by trading him before the extension bill came due. |
He'll play however he's coached to play. It really is that simple. |
No he plays how he wants to. |
eh not really.. he changed his playing style quite a bit over the years doing whatever the coach asked.. it was one of my biggest criticisms early on is that it seemed like he was trying to be good at a bunch of things and several completely different roles versus focusing on certain aspects and excel at that in the first few years.
He's still a big question mark on just how good he will be but there is still no doubt he has elite potential imo just like Ball. They are both already really solid players but neither are great which is what is going to make the Pelicans so fun to watch this season along with Zion. |
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so last season the Lakers told Brandon to neglect practicing 3 point spot ups and just focus on throwing up contested mid range shots? And when the ball is not in his had to just kinda stand around with his hands on his hips instead of making cuts and screens? |
No wonder Luke got canned. |
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governator Retired Number
Joined: 28 Jan 2006 Posts: 25076
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Posted: Tue Oct 22, 2019 4:47 pm Post subject: |
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BI vs Siakam... how’s it looking? Can he get to Siakam level? |
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lakersfan32 Star Player
Joined: 23 Jun 2005 Posts: 3679
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Posted: Tue Oct 22, 2019 5:44 pm Post subject: |
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governator wrote: | BI vs Siakam... how’s it looking? Can he get to Siakam level? |
got 20 pts already halfway thru the 3rd |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Tue Oct 22, 2019 5:56 pm Post subject: |
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BI looking good? Gonna tune in now. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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KB824MJ Star Player
Joined: 25 Jun 2015 Posts: 1349
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Posted: Tue Oct 22, 2019 9:40 pm Post subject: |
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BI looked good shot the 3 good, on 4 attempts. 22 5 and 5 |
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MJST Retired Number
Joined: 06 Jul 2014 Posts: 26309
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Posted: Tue Oct 22, 2019 10:09 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah. deciding to keep Kuzma over Ingram or Ball cause he was cheaper, could wind up looking pretty stupid move by the Lakers.
I mean, it already does, but it may look worse if BI continues to play well. _________________ How NBA 2K18 failed the All-Time Lakers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxMBYm3wwxk |
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Laker_Dynasty_01 Star Player
Joined: 06 Jun 2001 Posts: 1703
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Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 6:04 am Post subject: |
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Luminous8 wrote: | audioaxes wrote: | SocalDevin wrote: | hype wrote: | BigGameHames wrote: | SocalDevin wrote: | audioaxes wrote: | still not sold in BI. He still seems completely lost on how to contribute on offense without having the ball and his offense is not that good for someone who wants to ISO all the time.
so far looking like the Lakers made off well by trading him before the extension bill came due. |
He'll play however he's coached to play. It really is that simple. |
No he plays how he wants to. |
eh not really.. he changed his playing style quite a bit over the years doing whatever the coach asked.. it was one of my biggest criticisms early on is that it seemed like he was trying to be good at a bunch of things and several completely different roles versus focusing on certain aspects and excel at that in the first few years.
He's still a big question mark on just how good he will be but there is still no doubt he has elite potential imo just like Ball. They are both already really solid players but neither are great which is what is going to make the Pelicans so fun to watch this season along with Zion. |
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so last season the Lakers told Brandon to neglect practicing 3 point spot ups and just focus on throwing up contested mid range shots? And when the ball is not in his had to just kinda stand around with his hands on his hips instead of making cuts and screens? |
Just neglect mentioning facts. BI was top 10 in the league in movement followed close behind by Kuz. But keep pushing your narrative. |
"Never mistake activity for achievement" - John Wooden
In his first 3 years, only 36% of his "2s" came off assists. Ranking high in "movement" isn't helping him score off-ball at a high rate.
He is primarily an on-ball scorer. And he's pretty darn good at that. |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 6:11 am Post subject: |
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MJST wrote: | Yeah. deciding to keep Kuzma over Ingram or Ball cause he was cheaper, could wind up looking pretty stupid move by the Lakers.
I mean, it already does, but it may look worse if BI continues to play well. |
I don't think that's how it went down.
I think Pels rightfully saw BI/Lonzo as better assets than Kuz.
Lakers tried to spin having Kuz (when in reality they knew BI/Lonzo were better assets, and they needed the cap matching b/c they were chasing KL as a FA). _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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governator Retired Number
Joined: 28 Jan 2006 Posts: 25076
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Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 6:50 am Post subject: |
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MJST wrote: | Yeah. deciding to keep Kuzma over Ingram or Ball cause he was cheaper, could wind up looking pretty stupid move by the Lakers.
I mean, it already does, but it may look worse if BI continues to play well. |
You think BI is good enough to not do the AD trade? |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 7:00 am Post subject: |
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The logical and simple explanation is that the Pels wanted our two best young assets. And Kuz was not that.
I think the Lakers spun Kuz as if they tried to keep him. I've never heard one report where Lakers refused to part with BI or Lonzo b/c of Kuz (and b/c the salary matching was necessary to preserve a max slot to chase Kawhi). _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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PayasoLoco Franchise Player
Joined: 07 Jul 2001 Posts: 16663
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Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 8:13 am Post subject: |
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yinoma2001 wrote: | The logical and simple explanation is that the Pels wanted our two best young assets. And Kuz was not that.
I think the Lakers spun Kuz as if they tried to keep him. I've never heard one report where Lakers refused to part with BI or Lonzo b/c of Kuz (and b/c the salary matching was necessary to preserve a max slot to chase Kawhi). |
ding ding ding if they valued kuz they would have gotten him |
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wolfpaclaker Retired Number
Joined: 29 May 2002 Posts: 58336
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Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 8:31 am Post subject: |
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I believe one of the major reasons Kuz made sense was his contract. Ingram's contract will become 20+M a year starting next season. Lakers have an eye on the now, but also an eye on the future. 2021 is the year they are looking at signing a max FA with hopefully a re-signed AD, and then re-signing Kuzma using bird rights. Kuzma's cap hit in 21 summer is a huge difference from what Ingram's would be. You would not realistically be able to keep an aging Lebron, AD at the max, Ingram AND then go sign another big FA.
Right now my guess is the Lakers are trying to find a way do that in 2021 if it presents itself. |
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wolfpaclaker Retired Number
Joined: 29 May 2002 Posts: 58336
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Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 8:31 am Post subject: |
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I believe one of the major reasons Kuz made sense was his contract. Ingram's contract will become 20+M a year starting next season. Lakers have an eye on the now, but also an eye on the future. 2021 is the year they are looking at signing a max FA with hopefully a re-signed AD, and then re-signing Kuzma using bird rights. Kuzma's cap hit in 21 summer is a huge difference from what Ingram's would be. You would not realistically be able to keep an aging Lebron, AD at the max, Ingram AND then go sign another big FA.
Right now my guess is the Lakers are trying to find a way do that in 2021 if it presents itself. |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 10:53 am Post subject: |
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Sure. But I doubt that the Pels thought Kuz was more of a priority asset over Lonzo/BI. I think most of us here have those two over Kuz.
If I'm the Pels, I would for certain want Lonzo/BI as a starting package. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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wolfpaclaker Retired Number
Joined: 29 May 2002 Posts: 58336
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Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 1:01 pm Post subject: |
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yinoma2001 wrote: | Sure. But I doubt that the Pels thought Kuz was more of a priority asset over Lonzo/BI. I think most of us here have those two over Kuz.
If I'm the Pels, I would for certain want Lonzo/BI as a starting package. |
Personally based on last season, I think Kuzma was the best player of the 3. However that was based on different ages and development paths, as well as injuries. The Pels are probably looking at it as a longterm thing, and for sure from that perspective Kuzma is third in potential after Ball and Ingram.
I personally think Kuzma was more consistent and reliable last season, and played well off Lebron. Ball is the one with the most impact, but he didn't stay healthy and Ingram didn't fit well with LBJ. |
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ocho Retired Number
Joined: 24 May 2005 Posts: 53790
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Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 1:03 pm Post subject: |
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Whoever was making that Kuzma money was the one they would have kept. Their sights were on Kawhi. _________________ 14-5-3-12 |
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kikanga Retired Number
Joined: 15 Sep 2012 Posts: 29281 Location: La La Land
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Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 1:19 pm Post subject: |
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ocho wrote: | Whoever was making that Kuzma money was the one they would have kept. Their sights were on Kawhi. |
Kawhi did a good job stringing us along. That 8 million we gave to KCP could've gone to Ingram. And we probably win last night.
Assuming Pelicans would've accepted Kuz in the trade instead of Ingram. _________________ "Every hurt is a lesson, and every lesson makes you better” |
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Luminous8 Star Player
Joined: 26 Apr 2017 Posts: 2192
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Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 2:42 pm Post subject: |
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kikanga wrote: | ocho wrote: | Whoever was making that Kuzma money was the one they would have kept. Their sights were on Kawhi. |
Kawhi did a good job stringing us along. That 8 million we gave to KCP could've gone to Ingram. And we probably win last night.
Assuming Pelicans would've accepted Kuz in the trade instead of Ingram. |
Not sure they would have accepted though tbh. Griffin had a hard-on for BI. |
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MJST Retired Number
Joined: 06 Jul 2014 Posts: 26309
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Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 2:58 pm Post subject: |
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If the Pelicans wanted Kuzma and the Lakers could have kept Ingram or Ball but decided they weren't budging on Kuzma (as was reported) then that essentially means keeping Lonzo or BI but losing Kuzma, and I'd take that. _________________ How NBA 2K18 failed the All-Time Lakers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxMBYm3wwxk |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 4:14 pm Post subject: |
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MJST wrote: | If the Pelicans wanted Kuzma and the Lakers could have kept Ingram or Ball but decided they weren't budging on Kuzma (as was reported) then that essentially means keeping Lonzo or BI but losing Kuzma, and I'd take that. |
Of course but Pels rightfully was BI and Lonzo as better assets. Plus they were needed to aggregate enough salary (with the 4th pick’s cap hold) to trade for AD. Without either we would have to use cap space and not have had A max for 2019. That was the plan all along. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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