I won’t be too excited when he surpassed Kobe on the all-time scoring list. It was bound to happen eventually. I’ll be impressed when he surpass Malone for #2 and everyone will then encourage him to go after Cap for the #1 spot.
LeBron all day. #2 Greatest player of all time trailing only, MJ.
Will become the only player in NBA history end up with the milestone of over 35k points, 10k assists, 10k rebounds.
Potentially has a chance to become the first and only player to win a championship, Finals MVP with three different team(Kawhi has a chance to set that record too)
Will likely finishes #1 all-time in playoffs points, assists, top 3 in rebounds..
The only thing left he needs to do to put the icing on the cake is winning it all this year.
That’s the opinion of some
It’s cool. Everyone has their own opinions and preferences. At the end of his career, only MJ will have a clear cut advantage over him in terms of productivity, impact, etc..
LeBron all day. #2 Greatest player of all time trailing only, MJ.
Will become the only player in NBA history end up with the milestone of over 35k points, 10k assists, 10k rebounds.
Potentially has a chance to become the first and only player to win a championship, Finals MVP with three different team(Kawhi has a chance to set that record too)
Will likely finishes #1 all-time in playoffs points, assists, top 3 in rebounds..
The only thing left he needs to do to put the icing on the cake is winning it all this year.
That’s the opinion of some
It’s cool. Everyone has their own opinions and preferences. At the end of his career, only MJ will have a clear cut advantage over him in terms of productivity, impact, etc..
In your opinion 👍
What’s your top 10 list of greatest of all time?
I’ve never made one.
Let me give it whirl off the top of my head.
#1 Michael Jordan
#2 Kareem Abdul Jabbar
#3 Wilt Chamberlain
#4 Kobe Bryant
#5 Larry Bird
#6 Magic Johnson
#7 Shaquille O’Neal
#8 LeBron James
#9 The Dream
#10 Tim Duncan
That list works for me _________________ Mamba Made Moments Meticulously Magnificent
Lack of agreed-upon criteria and how to assign value to each criterion are the cause or one of the causes if not the cause of disagreement. We all know for examples that the players being considered among GOATs played in different eras, different rules, different.degree.of supporting casts, level of competition, the imbalanced of conference strengths in each era, etc. Further, differnt paths to championship.can be also included. It's hard to get apple to.apple comparisons.
When I ponder at the current season, I dont remember when for.example all the mvp.candidates have nearly triple.double.average. Or when did the last time the average ppg scored look like the current.season's. _________________ Kobe's Top 5 Dunks, 81 points, MJ last gm @Staples
Lack of agreed-upon criteria and how to assign value to each criterion are the cause or one of the causes if not the cause of disagreement. We all know for examples that the players being considered among GOATs played in different eras, different rules, different.degree.of supporting casts, level of competition, the imbalanced of conference strengths in each era, etc. Further, differnt paths to championship.can be also included. It's hard to get apple to.apple comparisons.
When I ponder at the current season, I dont remember when for.example all the mvp.candidates have nearly triple.double.average. Or when did the last time the average ppg scored look like the current.season's.
Well stated _________________ Mamba Made Moments Meticulously Magnificent
What makes it even worse when the people who never get involved directly with the sport make their own greater than thou art claim that X is better than Y and Z should be excluded in the conversation.
Do they know how hard it is to shoot a turnaround jumper in midrange with one or two defenders on your face? What about the same shot from beyond the arc? Thats why players, coaches and real scouts of each team who know the ins and outs of the sport will just laugh at their opinions. _________________ Kobe's Top 5 Dunks, 81 points, MJ last gm @Staples
What makes it even worse when the people who never get involved directly with the sport make their own greater than thou art claim that X is better than Y and Z should be excluded in the conversation.
Do they know how hard it is to shoot a turnaround jumper in midrange with one or two defenders on your face? What about the same shot from beyond the arc? Thats why players, coaches and real scouts of each team who know the ins and outs of the sport will just laugh at their opinions.
That’s a good point, but that’s a style vs efficiency perspective.
What makes it even worse when the people who never get involved directly with the sport make their own greater than thou art claim that X is better than Y and Z should be excluded in the conversation.
Do they know how hard it is to shoot a turnaround jumper in midrange with one or two defenders on your face? What about the same shot from beyond the arc? Thats why players, coaches and real scouts of each team who know the ins and outs of the sport will just laugh at their opinions.
That’s a good point, but that’s a style vs efficiency perspective.
Is it “better” to take and make tough shots?
Or “better” to take and make easy shots?
I think you meant tough shots by elite player vs pass to lesser teammates argument?
Joined: 29 Aug 2004 Posts: 11197 Location: The Other Perspective
Posted: Sat Dec 14, 2019 8:47 am Post subject:
LaLaLakeShow wrote:
I’ve never made one.
Let me give it whirl off the top of my head.
#1 Michael Jordan
#2 Kareem Abdul Jabbar
#3 Wilt Chamberlain
#4 Kobe Bryant
#5 Larry Bird
#6 Magic Johnson
#7 Shaquille O’Neal
#8 LeBron James
#9 The Dream
#10 Tim Duncan
That list works for me
Solid list, bro. I have a bias toward guys that can handle and initiate so my Top 5 ( or 6 lol ) might seem a little crazy to some.
1. Jordan
2. Kobe
3. Magic/Bird tied
4. Bron
5. Kareem _________________ "Chick lived and breathed Lakers basketball…but he was also fair and objective and called every game the way it was played."
-from Chick: His Unpublished Memoirs and the Memories of Those Who Knew Him
What makes it even worse when the people who never get involved directly with the sport make their own greater than thou art claim that X is better than Y and Z should be excluded in the conversation.
Do they know how hard it is to shoot a turnaround jumper in midrange with one or two defenders on your face? What about the same shot from beyond the arc? Thats why players, coaches and real scouts of each team who know the ins and outs of the sport will just laugh at their opinions.
That’s a good point, but that’s a style vs efficiency perspective.
Is it “better” to take and make tough shots?
Or “better” to take and make easy shots?
I think you meant tough shots by elite player vs pass to lesser teammates argument?
No, I am wondering if a player who takes a shot while defended should be penalized or rewarded, and then if a player who took the shot while more open should be penalized or rewarded.
I suppose there’s some context there that needs to be considered. In some cases, you need your guy to take a “bad” shot, but at the same time you don’t want your guy taking many “bad” shots.
I’ve never made one.
Let me give it whirl off the top of my head.
#1 Michael Jordan
#2 Kareem Abdul Jabbar
#3 Wilt Chamberlain
#4 Kobe Bryant
#5 Larry Bird
#6 Magic Johnson
#7 Shaquille O’Neal
#8 LeBron James
#9 The Dream
#10 Tim Duncan
That list works for me
Solid list, bro. I have a bias toward guys that can handle and initiate so my Top 5 ( or 6 lol ) might seem a little crazy to some.
1. Jordan
2. Kobe
3. Magic/Bird tied
4. Bron
5. Kareem
Your list is solid too 👍
Kobe #2! I’ll take it _________________ Mamba Made Moments Meticulously Magnificent
One thing I gotta say about LeBron, he seems to hang out with his teammates more off court than Kobe did. I was gonna quantify that by saying that helped the Lakers gel quicker. But then I remembered his other teams didn't gel that quickly. So disregard.
One thing I gotta say about LeBron, he seems to hang out with his teammates more off court than Kobe did. I was gonna quantify that by saying that helped the Lakers gel quicker. But then I remembered his other teams didn't gel that quickly. So disregard.
Done
But you can’t help but be impressed with his leadership this year _________________ Mamba Made Moments Meticulously Magnificent
What makes it even worse when the people who never get involved directly with the sport make their own greater than thou art claim that X is better than Y and Z should be excluded in the conversation.
Do they know how hard it is to shoot a turnaround jumper in midrange with one or two defenders on your face? What about the same shot from beyond the arc? Thats why players, coaches and real scouts of each team who know the ins and outs of the sport will just laugh at their opinions.
That’s a good point, but that’s a style vs efficiency perspective.
Is it “better” to take and make tough shots?
Or “better” to take and make easy shots?
I think you meant tough shots by elite player vs pass to lesser teammates argument?
No, I am wondering if a player who takes a shot while defended should be penalized or rewarded, and then if a player who took the shot while more open should be penalized or rewarded.
I suppose there’s some context there that needs to be considered. In some cases, you need your guy to take a “bad” shot, but at the same time you don’t want your guy taking many “bad” shots.
You see what I mean? If easy shots are compared to though shots, people still have to argue why take tough shots if easy ones are better. In real world, superstars dare to take the tough ones. If "DARE to take tough shots" column should be created... what are the criteria? Value?... These alone are subject to debate. Why bring it out? Because we have witnessed so. We have seen some tough shots taken. _________________ Kobe's Top 5 Dunks, 81 points, MJ last gm @Staples
I’ve never made one.
Let me give it whirl off the top of my head.
#1 Michael Jordan
#2 Kareem Abdul Jabbar
#3 Wilt Chamberlain
#4 Kobe Bryant
#5 Larry Bird
#6 Magic Johnson
#7 Shaquille O’Neal
#8 LeBron James
#9 The Dream
#10 Tim Duncan
That list works for me
Solid list, bro. I have a bias toward guys that can handle and initiate so my Top 5 ( or 6 lol ) might seem a little crazy to some.
1. Jordan
2. Kobe
3. Magic/Bird tied
4. Bron
5. Kareem
Your list is solid too 👍
Kobe #2! I’ll take it
Right now, one can make mj, kareem, kobe and magic number one.
Just depends on the criteria. Since nobody wins alone, teammates, and other factors certainly play significant roles in determining who deserves more consideration for GOAT. Injuries and luck, believe it or not, also change the goat conversation...like how the pistons swept favs Lakers and Magic... _________________ Kobe's Top 5 Dunks, 81 points, MJ last gm @Staples
But one factor that is so obvious when Bron, Wilt, Bird, Shaw, Duncan, etc are included in the conversation along with MJ, Kareem and Magic is that Kobe is the "least" in terms of "infrastructures." He is the shortest, physically inferior (smaller hands and body), probably not as athe athletic than some. But to win 5 of 7 he has to overcome the tangibles with intangibles. If he had Bron's body that is so lucky until now is still untouched by serious injuries (not that I wish him to have ones) it wouldn't have been funny. _________________ Kobe's Top 5 Dunks, 81 points, MJ last gm @Staples
But one factor that is so obvious when Bron, Wilt, Bird, Shaw, Duncan, etc are included in the conversation along with MJ, Kareem and Magic is that Kobe is the "least" in terms of "infrastructures." He is the shortest, physically inferior (smaller hands and body), probably not as athe athletic than some. But to win 5 of 7 he has to overcome the tangibles with intangibles. If he had Bron's body that is so lucky until now is still untouched by serious injuries (not that I wish him to have ones) it wouldn't have been funny.
Blessed to have seen him for all 20 _________________ Mamba Made Moments Meticulously Magnificent
What makes it even worse when the people who never get involved directly with the sport make their own greater than thou art claim that X is better than Y and Z should be excluded in the conversation.
Do they know how hard it is to shoot a turnaround jumper in midrange with one or two defenders on your face? What about the same shot from beyond the arc? Thats why players, coaches and real scouts of each team who know the ins and outs of the sport will just laugh at their opinions.
That’s a good point, but that’s a style vs efficiency perspective.
Is it “better” to take and make tough shots?
Or “better” to take and make easy shots?
I think you meant tough shots by elite player vs pass to lesser teammates argument?
No, I am wondering if a player who takes a shot while defended should be penalized or rewarded, and then if a player who took the shot while more open should be penalized or rewarded.
I suppose there’s some context there that needs to be considered. In some cases, you need your guy to take a “bad” shot, but at the same time you don’t want your guy taking many “bad” shots.
You see what I mean? If easy shots are compared to though shots, people still have to argue why take tough shots if easy ones are better. In real world, superstars dare to take the tough ones. If "DARE to take tough shots" column should be created... what are the criteria? Value?... These alone are subject to debate. Why bring it out? Because we have witnessed so. We have seen some tough shots taken.
It’s pointless to me to talk about tough shots being better than easy shots. Because not all tough shots are good shots. All easy shots, by contrast, are good shots.
But I get it that tough shots are part of the game.
So the question is ... how many of the tough shots were unnecessary, and could have been passed up in favor of good shots? No meaningful way to quantify that.
It’s also arguable, that perhaps, a given player is so good, that he rarely has to take tough shots because he can get into position to make them easy.
How do we quantify that? We can’t. So its kind if pointless outside of being leveraged as an inarguable point (ie “X player took tough shots therefore better”)
Winning 5 of 7 is not that important when you consider that Horry won 7 of 7. Some folks wanna give Bryant more credit for a 17-65 season than they wanna give Bron for making it to the Finals but coming up short on the Championship.
Bryant failed to win the Chip in 15 of 20 seasons. His ranking might be better than 12-14 if he had sat out the last couple of years, possibly.
LAbron is ranked #2 and still going strong. Eventually he is #1 all time.
moonriver24 wrote:
But one factor that is so obvious when Bron, Wilt, Bird, Shaw, Duncan, etc are included in the conversation along with MJ, Kareem and Magic is that Kobe is the "least" in terms of "infrastructures." He is the shortest, physically inferior (smaller hands and body), probably not as athe athletic than some. But to win 5 of 7 he has to overcome the tangibles with intangibles. If he had Bron's body that is so lucky until now is still untouched by serious injuries (not that I wish him to have ones) it wouldn't have been funny.
Winning 5 of 7 is not that important when you consider that Horry won 7 of 7. Some folks wanna give Bryant more credit for a 17-65 season than they wanna give Bron for making it to the Finals but coming up short on the Championship.
Bryant failed to win the Chip in 15 of 20 seasons. His ranking might be better than 12-14 if he had sat out the last couple of years, possibly.
LAbron is ranked #2 and still going strong. Eventually he is #1 all time.
moonriver24 wrote:
But one factor that is so obvious when Bron, Wilt, Bird, Shaw, Duncan, etc are included in the conversation along with MJ, Kareem and Magic is that Kobe is the "least" in terms of "infrastructures." He is the shortest, physically inferior (smaller hands and body), probably not as athe athletic than some. But to win 5 of 7 he has to overcome the tangibles with intangibles. If he had Bron's body that is so lucky until now is still untouched by serious injuries (not that I wish him to have ones) it wouldn't have been funny.
What an intriguing argument. I think you nailed it.
Horry’s 7 for 7 makes Kobe’s 5 for 7 look like nothing in comparison. Especially considering how Horry was the leader of those great Laker teams. No one can debate that. _________________ Mamba Made Moments Meticulously Magnificent
[What's the difference in guarding Kobe and guarding LeBron?]
Tony Allen:
"I caught a whiff of LeBron early, I caught Mamba in his prime. So, any difference, I would have to say... I just like Kobe's relentlessness. I see him not getting discouraged a lot of times. When he went 0 for 7 and turned that into a 9 for 12 game. When other times I've see LeBron miss a couple of shots or get too much defensive pressure, I've seen him lay off the ball a little bit, go a little absent in the game. And I can say that because I've experienced playing them. However, it boils down to the pick-and-roll coverages. They're both electrifying in the open court, they both can knock down shots. But if I can say anything I would just have to say Kobe don't get discouraged at all."
[And he's also maybe a little bit more skilled. Whereas LeBron is so big and so strong and the way the NBA game is officiated now he can play downhill and almost bully-ball you. Whereas Kobe came up kind of end of Jordan generation, when there was still hand-checking]
Tony Allen:
"Footwork. I'm talking about his footwork. I mean, the way he gets to his spots. And when he's in the post he knows how to maneuver down there as if he's a big. And I think comparing that to LeBron, at the time when I played him, I don't think he had a strong post game. I don't think his post game is too much to talk about as of today. But a lot of what we know about LeBron is he's taking off from the freethrow line, dunking on you, strong, powerful. But for the most part, as far as skill, he's getting better and better."
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