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kikanga
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 Posted: Thu Jan 30, 2020 11:06 am Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: |
Yeah I suppose you could argue that. But my point is that in the marketing world, you don’t change your logo unless you’re rebranding yourself. The logo being the manifestation of something else, like a personality shift or an overhaul in your business model.
I don’t think tragedy should restrict change necessarily either. But we have seen ideas such as eliminating trading this season as well as cancelling the rest of this season in honor. Should we do all ideas so as to not restrict change in a tragedy? The only things I think we should hold off on, as a general rule, are fundamental or broadly impacting changes during times of tragedy. There’s no reason something like this could be looked at in the offseason or at some other future date if and when it makes sense in the broader context of the business.
On your last point, I’m specifically referring to the wokesters. I know you know who they are! |
Looking at some examples just from last year. I disagree with your 1st paragraph. https://looka.com/blog/logo-redesigns-2019/
One idea made during tragedy has no bearing on the efficacy of another. Bad ideas are suggested even when there is no tragedy.
Plenty of wokesters don't like Jerry West either after his WH visit.
Just feel like these don't even try to change the logo to Kobe arguments fall short in my book.
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GTL
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Joined: 29 Feb 2008
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| Posted: Thu Jan 30, 2020 11:12 am Post subject: |
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| silkwilkes wrote: | | They're not changing anything for Kobe... they may create a new award but that's it. And neither should they. Let's get real. |
What do you mean "lets get real"?
Ya, lets get real, he's gone, at 41. He changed the game. He's one of the greatest basketball players of all time. ARGUABLY by some, but for me, the greatest LAKER to ever play the game. A top 5 player to EVER play the game. This is not just my opinion, but the opinion of millions around the world.
Besides the point. The way you dismiss it is indicative of modern society just swooping aside tragic events because everything is so fast paced these days with modern social media putting out news and events by the minute. Just because it just happened and we're all emotional doesn't negate the fact that it's a monumental loss for the world of basketball and will be for some time to come.
The idea that these changes are all based on emotion is not valid. It's based on the fact that for 20 years his career was undervalued. And it took his untimely death for people to see that he's not just one of the greatest to ever play, but more then likely the hardest worker to EVER play the game. If that's not the perfect representation of what the NBA should be, ie its logo, I don't know what is.
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Thu Jan 30, 2020 11:43 am Post subject: |
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| kikanga wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: |
Yeah I suppose you could argue that. But my point is that in the marketing world, you don’t change your logo unless you’re rebranding yourself. The logo being the manifestation of something else, like a personality shift or an overhaul in your business model.
I don’t think tragedy should restrict change necessarily either. But we have seen ideas such as eliminating trading this season as well as cancelling the rest of this season in honor. Should we do all ideas so as to not restrict change in a tragedy? The only things I think we should hold off on, as a general rule, are fundamental or broadly impacting changes during times of tragedy. There’s no reason something like this could be looked at in the offseason or at some other future date if and when it makes sense in the broader context of the business.
On your last point, I’m specifically referring to the wokesters. I know you know who they are! |
Looking at some examples just from last year. I disagree with your 1st paragraph. https://looka.com/blog/logo-redesigns-2019/
One idea made during tragedy has no bearing on the efficacy of another. Bad ideas are suggested even when there is no tragedy.
Plenty of wokesters don't like Jerry West either after his WH visit.
Just feel like these don't even try to change the logo to Kobe arguments fall short in my book. |
Well I just don’t think they should make the change right now. And the NBA feels the same. There’s no right or wrong here. Just opinions.
(Should add those are logo redesigns, not logo changes). The Toyota logo is the same. Apple has kept the same logo over the years, despite shifts in how the logo has been designed (rainbow vs solid color,
etc). If they shifted from an apple to an avocado, that would be a change.
Are you in marketing?
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activeverb
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| Posted: Thu Jan 30, 2020 12:37 pm Post subject: |
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| GTL wrote: |
The idea that these changes are all based on emotion is not valid. It's based on the fact that for 20 years his career was undervalued. |
It's more nuanced than that.
The push to change the logo at this very moment is due to the emotion of the tragedy.
The emphasis on making Kobe the logo -- rather than discussing if one player should be the logo and if so which player in NBA history it should be -- is due to the emotion of the tragedy.
Sure, if the tragedy hadn't happened and people were discussing changing the logo, Kobe's name would be thrown out as possibility. But so would Jordan, Magic, Bird, Lebron, Wilt, Russell, and a lot of permutations.
And if people have this discussion a year from now, when people have healed a bit, it will be a very different discussion than it would be today. |
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GTL
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| Posted: Thu Jan 30, 2020 12:47 pm Post subject: |
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| activeverb wrote: | | GTL wrote: |
The idea that these changes are all based on emotion is not valid. It's based on the fact that for 20 years his career was undervalued. |
It's more nuanced than that.
The push to change the logo at this very moment is due to the emotion of the tragedy.
The emphasis on making Kobe the logo -- rather than discussing if one player should be the logo and if so which player in NBA history it should be -- is due to the emotion of the tragedy.
Sure, if the tragedy hadn't happened and people were discussing changing the logo, Kobe's name would be thrown out as possibility. But so would Jordan, Magic, Bird, Lebron, Wilt, Russell, and a lot of permutations.
And if people have this discussion a year from now, when people have healed a bit, it will be a very different discussion than it would be today. |
But that's not the case. The tragedy did happen. I just refuse to minimize it or diminish its importance by assuming the emotional aspect will change by some arbitrary time frame. It is more then likely that by next year, the guys you named will still be here, and Kobe, who would have been 42, coaching his 14 year old daughter Gigi, will still be gone.
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I miss you Kobe. I miss you Gigi. |
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activeverb
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| Posted: Thu Jan 30, 2020 2:41 pm Post subject: |
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| GTL wrote: | | activeverb wrote: | | GTL wrote: |
The idea that these changes are all based on emotion is not valid. It's based on the fact that for 20 years his career was undervalued. |
It's more nuanced than that.
The push to change the logo at this very moment is due to the emotion of the tragedy.
The emphasis on making Kobe the logo -- rather than discussing if one player should be the logo and if so which player in NBA history it should be -- is due to the emotion of the tragedy.
Sure, if the tragedy hadn't happened and people were discussing changing the logo, Kobe's name would be thrown out as possibility. But so would Jordan, Magic, Bird, Lebron, Wilt, Russell, and a lot of permutations.
And if people have this discussion a year from now, when people have healed a bit, it will be a very different discussion than it would be today. |
But that's not the case. The tragedy did happen. I just refuse to minimize it or diminish its importance by assuming the emotional aspect will change by some arbitrary time frame. It is more then likely that by next year, the guys you named will still be here, and Kobe, who would have been 42, coaching his 14 year old daughter Gigi, will still be gone. |
I am certainly not meaning to minimize anyone's pain. Anyway, as far as the logo, we'll see what happens. |
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GTL
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Joined: 29 Feb 2008
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| Posted: Thu Jan 30, 2020 2:49 pm Post subject: |
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| activeverb wrote: | | GTL wrote: | | activeverb wrote: | | GTL wrote: |
The idea that these changes are all based on emotion is not valid. It's based on the fact that for 20 years his career was undervalued. |
It's more nuanced than that.
The push to change the logo at this very moment is due to the emotion of the tragedy.
The emphasis on making Kobe the logo -- rather than discussing if one player should be the logo and if so which player in NBA history it should be -- is due to the emotion of the tragedy.
Sure, if the tragedy hadn't happened and people were discussing changing the logo, Kobe's name would be thrown out as possibility. But so would Jordan, Magic, Bird, Lebron, Wilt, Russell, and a lot of permutations.
And if people have this discussion a year from now, when people have healed a bit, it will be a very different discussion than it would be today. |
But that's not the case. The tragedy did happen. I just refuse to minimize it or diminish its importance by assuming the emotional aspect will change by some arbitrary time frame. It is more then likely that by next year, the guys you named will still be here, and Kobe, who would have been 42, coaching his 14 year old daughter Gigi, will still be gone. |
I am certainly not meaning to minimize anyone's pain. Anyway, as far as the logo, we'll see what happens. |
You misunderstood me. I'm not implying that you are. The media however spent nearly 2 decades doing whatever they can to downplay and diminish his career accomplishments. Of course, their tone has completely changed now. I can't explain why that exactly is, or claim it's only because he passed away. Many of these guys were closer to him then I could ever imagine to being. But if there's one entity that I don't much care for, don't trust, and don't put stock into as far as their opinions are concerned, its sports media. Majority hacks.
The fans on the other hand? 3 million currently agree that the logo should be changed.
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I miss you Kobe. I miss you Gigi. |
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kikanga
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Joined: 15 Sep 2012
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Location: La La Land
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| Posted: Thu Jan 30, 2020 2:56 pm Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | | kikanga wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: |
Yeah I suppose you could argue that. But my point is that in the marketing world, you don’t change your logo unless you’re rebranding yourself. The logo being the manifestation of something else, like a personality shift or an overhaul in your business model.
I don’t think tragedy should restrict change necessarily either. But we have seen ideas such as eliminating trading this season as well as cancelling the rest of this season in honor. Should we do all ideas so as to not restrict change in a tragedy? The only things I think we should hold off on, as a general rule, are fundamental or broadly impacting changes during times of tragedy. There’s no reason something like this could be looked at in the offseason or at some other future date if and when it makes sense in the broader context of the business.
On your last point, I’m specifically referring to the wokesters. I know you know who they are! |
Looking at some examples just from last year. I disagree with your 1st paragraph. https://looka.com/blog/logo-redesigns-2019/
One idea made during tragedy has no bearing on the efficacy of another. Bad ideas are suggested even when there is no tragedy.
Plenty of wokesters don't like Jerry West either after his WH visit.
Just feel like these don't even try to change the logo to Kobe arguments fall short in my book. |
Well I just don’t think they should make the change right now. And the NBA feels the same. There’s no right or wrong here. Just opinions.
(Should add those are logo redesigns, not logo changes). The Toyota logo is the same. Apple has kept the same logo over the years, despite shifts in how the logo has been designed (rainbow vs solid color,
etc). If they shifted from an apple to an avocado, that would be a change.
Are you in marketing? |
So shifting from one player's outline to another player's outline would be a change and not a redesign?
Is West the apple and Kobe the avocado? Or vice versa?
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GTL
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Thu Jan 30, 2020 5:29 pm Post subject: |
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| kikanga wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | kikanga wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: |
Yeah I suppose you could argue that. But my point is that in the marketing world, you don’t change your logo unless you’re rebranding yourself. The logo being the manifestation of something else, like a personality shift or an overhaul in your business model.
I don’t think tragedy should restrict change necessarily either. But we have seen ideas such as eliminating trading this season as well as cancelling the rest of this season in honor. Should we do all ideas so as to not restrict change in a tragedy? The only things I think we should hold off on, as a general rule, are fundamental or broadly impacting changes during times of tragedy. There’s no reason something like this could be looked at in the offseason or at some other future date if and when it makes sense in the broader context of the business.
On your last point, I’m specifically referring to the wokesters. I know you know who they are! |
Looking at some examples just from last year. I disagree with your 1st paragraph. https://looka.com/blog/logo-redesigns-2019/
One idea made during tragedy has no bearing on the efficacy of another. Bad ideas are suggested even when there is no tragedy.
Plenty of wokesters don't like Jerry West either after his WH visit.
Just feel like these don't even try to change the logo to Kobe arguments fall short in my book. |
Well I just don’t think they should make the change right now. And the NBA feels the same. There’s no right or wrong here. Just opinions.
(Should add those are logo redesigns, not logo changes). The Toyota logo is the same. Apple has kept the same logo over the years, despite shifts in how the logo has been designed (rainbow vs solid color,
etc). If they shifted from an apple to an avocado, that would be a change.
Are you in marketing? |
So shifting from one player's outline to another player's outline would be a change and not a redesign?
Is West the apple and Kobe the avocado? Or vice versa? |
It would be a major change, yes.
Do you think it is closer to unnoticeable?
What exactly are we trying to accomplish with this and why not last week? Like why are we talking about it now and why must we do it now rather than considering logo change options at a later date when it a change is needed?
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kikanga
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Joined: 15 Sep 2012
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Location: La La Land
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| Posted: Thu Jan 30, 2020 5:40 pm Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | | kikanga wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | kikanga wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: |
Yeah I suppose you could argue that. But my point is that in the marketing world, you don’t change your logo unless you’re rebranding yourself. The logo being the manifestation of something else, like a personality shift or an overhaul in your business model.
I don’t think tragedy should restrict change necessarily either. But we have seen ideas such as eliminating trading this season as well as cancelling the rest of this season in honor. Should we do all ideas so as to not restrict change in a tragedy? The only things I think we should hold off on, as a general rule, are fundamental or broadly impacting changes during times of tragedy. There’s no reason something like this could be looked at in the offseason or at some other future date if and when it makes sense in the broader context of the business.
On your last point, I’m specifically referring to the wokesters. I know you know who they are! |
Looking at some examples just from last year. I disagree with your 1st paragraph. https://looka.com/blog/logo-redesigns-2019/
One idea made during tragedy has no bearing on the efficacy of another. Bad ideas are suggested even when there is no tragedy.
Plenty of wokesters don't like Jerry West either after his WH visit.
Just feel like these don't even try to change the logo to Kobe arguments fall short in my book. |
Well I just don’t think they should make the change right now. And the NBA feels the same. There’s no right or wrong here. Just opinions.
(Should add those are logo redesigns, not logo changes). The Toyota logo is the same. Apple has kept the same logo over the years, despite shifts in how the logo has been designed (rainbow vs solid color,
etc). If they shifted from an apple to an avocado, that would be a change.
Are you in marketing? |
So shifting from one player's outline to another player's outline would be a change and not a redesign?
Is West the apple and Kobe the avocado? Or vice versa? |
It would be a major change, yes.
Do you think it is closer to unnoticeable?
What exactly are we trying to accomplish with this and why not last week? Like why are we talking about it now and why must we do it now rather than considering logo change options at a later date when it a change is needed? |
The line isn't unnoticeable. Whether it's a "change" or a "redesign" it's noticeable.
Changing a white silhouette in front of a color background to a different white silhouette in front of a color background is on par with the examples I showed you which you said were "redesigns".
I have no problem with "redesigning" it now or 6 months from now. The timing isn't important to me. What I don't understand is. Why is it not even worth the effort?
The man is literally the only MVP, 5 time champion, 18 time all star to ever give 1/2 his life to the league.
The not even trying part. It irks me. Kobe's lifelong motto was doing things that were hard. Especially because they were hard. If the league can't work out negotiations for the rights. That's one thing. But to not even try. That's a tough pill to swallow.
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activeverb
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| Posted: Thu Jan 30, 2020 7:06 pm Post subject: |
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| GTL wrote: |
You misunderstood me. I'm not implying that you are. The media however spent nearly 2 decades doing whatever they can to downplay and diminish his career accomplishments. Of course, their tone has completely changed now. I can't explain why that exactly is, or claim it's only because he passed away. Many of these guys were closer to him then I could ever imagine to being. But if there's one entity that I don't much care for, don't trust, and don't put stock into as far as their opinions are concerned, its sports media. Majority hacks.
The fans on the other hand? 3 million currently agree that the logo should be changed. |
I get it.
The positions of the people who want the change, the position of the people who oppose the change, and the position of the league have all been laid out in great detail on this thread.
I don't think the positions have any compromise, so it's just a matter of which one you agree with. |
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KOBE WAN
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| Posted: Fri Jan 31, 2020 1:18 am Post subject: New petition for forever stamp |
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http://chng.it/5ScKk58Htz
New petition for the forever stamp |
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