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emplay Site Staff
Joined: 15 Apr 2001 Posts: 25550
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slavavov Star Player
Joined: 03 Oct 2003 Posts: 8352 Location: Santa Monica
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Posted: Sun May 03, 2020 6:00 pm Post subject: |
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Nice article Emplay. But I don't think Kobe was ever a sidekick. He and Shaq were like 1A and 1B, especially since they took turns dominating.
But I do agree that Kobe was a Pippen/Jordan hybrid. Even after Shaq left, Kobe had to always bring the ball upcourt, dictate the tempo and organize the offense. _________________ Lakers 49ers Chargers Dodgers |
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emplay Site Staff
Joined: 15 Apr 2001 Posts: 25550
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emplay Site Staff
Joined: 15 Apr 2001 Posts: 25550
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Posted: Tue May 05, 2020 8:18 pm Post subject: |
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Kobe felt like a sidekick and fought against it - he knew he wasn't just that but was being perceived as less than in a way. That's why, when he did win without Shaq and then got more rings than Shaq, it meant everything to him! _________________ Salary Cap Strategist and Columnist at Bleacher Report and on Twitter at http://www.twitter.com/EricPincus |
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emplay Site Staff
Joined: 15 Apr 2001 Posts: 25550
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1hu2ren3dui4 Franchise Player
Joined: 19 Jul 2002 Posts: 15403 Location: Oak Park
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Posted: Sat May 09, 2020 5:43 am Post subject: |
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I dont wanna take anything away from Shaqs 3 finals mvps. He absolutely dominated those eastern conference teams.
But during those years, the battle for the the championship always peaked in the western conference finals. During which Kobe felt like the superhero and Shaq seemed like the sidekick. |
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venturalakersfan Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144474 Location: The Gold Coast
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Posted: Sat May 09, 2020 9:28 am Post subject: |
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1hu2ren3dui4 wrote: | I dont wanna take anything away from Shaqs 3 finals mvps. He absolutely dominated those eastern conference teams.
But during those years, the battle for the the championship always peaked in the western conference finals. During which Kobe felt like the superhero and Shaq seemed like the sidekick. |
Shaq battled two all time greats in Duncan and Robinson. That is no sidekick, that showed how dominant Shaq was. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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emplay Site Staff
Joined: 15 Apr 2001 Posts: 25550
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Posted: Sat May 09, 2020 11:59 am Post subject: |
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Kobe pushed the Lakers past the Spurs but it took Shaq playing those dudes even to give the Lakers a shot _________________ Salary Cap Strategist and Columnist at Bleacher Report and on Twitter at http://www.twitter.com/EricPincus |
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emplay Site Staff
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1hu2ren3dui4 Franchise Player
Joined: 19 Jul 2002 Posts: 15403 Location: Oak Park
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Posted: Sun May 10, 2020 7:53 pm Post subject: |
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venturalakersfan wrote: | 1hu2ren3dui4 wrote: | I dont wanna take anything away from Shaqs 3 finals mvps. He absolutely dominated those eastern conference teams.
But during those years, the battle for the the championship always peaked in the western conference finals. During which Kobe felt like the superhero and Shaq seemed like the sidekick. |
Shaq battled two all time greats in Duncan and Robinson. That is no sidekick, that showed how dominant Shaq was. |
Fair point. Kind of hard to make one a sidekick or the other. Thinking back that series against the spurs where Kobe torched the spurs for the sweep where the identity of the team changed. The year before that against the Spurs I felt like Shaq had to wear down the Blazers until Kobe stepped up. That year both were clicking and it was a beat down the entire playoffs for all comers. |
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GOODRICH25 Star Player
Joined: 17 Jun 2017 Posts: 3366
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Posted: Mon May 11, 2020 11:03 am Post subject: |
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Except Kobe was always better than Pippen. Also, with the exception of the 1st title, he was arguably as valuable as Shaq for the other 2 _________________ 48 49 50 52 53 54 72 80 82
85 87 88 00 01 02 09 10 20
17 99 19 22 44 13 25 Mic.
52 33 32 42 34 8 24 16 23 3 |
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emplay Site Staff
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DShotMaker1824 Star Player
Joined: 16 Feb 2012 Posts: 8769
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Posted: Wed May 13, 2020 6:47 am Post subject: |
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I resent that perpetuated lie. LeBron was not better than Kobe by the end of the 2000s. I have more to say but I'll leave it here. _________________
"Through the legs to the left, through the legs to the right, we don't run them Laker plays, we just Kobe fadeaway..."
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activeverb Retired Number
Joined: 17 Jun 2006 Posts: 37470
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Posted: Wed May 13, 2020 9:00 am Post subject: |
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GOODRICH25 wrote: | Except Kobe was always better than Pippen. Also, with the exception of the 1st title, he was arguably as valuable as Shaq for the other 2 |
I agree with you.
To me, Shaq was clearly more impactful and important in the first title. Kobe at that point was definitely a sidekick. By the second ring, they were more a 1a and 1b, ala Kareem and Magic, and that really became clear by the third ring.
During the threepeat, I'd say there were points when you could argue Kobe was equal to Shaq in importance. But I don't think there was ever a point that Kobe was more important that Shaq. |
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SuperboyReformed Star Player
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Posted: Wed May 13, 2020 9:43 am Post subject: |
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venturalakersfan wrote: | 1hu2ren3dui4 wrote: | I dont wanna take anything away from Shaqs 3 finals mvps. He absolutely dominated those eastern conference teams.
But during those years, the battle for the the championship always peaked in the western conference finals. During which Kobe felt like the superhero and Shaq seemed like the sidekick. |
Shaq battled two all time greats in Duncan and Robinson. That is no sidekick, that showed how dominant Shaq was. |
except that is the one series where shaq was kobe's sidekick. lol |
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venturalakersfan Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144474 Location: The Gold Coast
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Posted: Wed May 13, 2020 9:49 am Post subject: |
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SuperboyReformed wrote: | venturalakersfan wrote: | 1hu2ren3dui4 wrote: | I dont wanna take anything away from Shaqs 3 finals mvps. He absolutely dominated those eastern conference teams.
But during those years, the battle for the the championship always peaked in the western conference finals. During which Kobe felt like the superhero and Shaq seemed like the sidekick. |
Shaq battled two all time greats in Duncan and Robinson. That is no sidekick, that showed how dominant Shaq was. |
except that is the one series where shaq was kobe's sidekick. lol |
No, Kobe wouldn’t have had success if TD and Robinson were concentrating on stopping him as they were on Shaq. They knew that Shaq was who they needed to stop. Put someone like Divac at center and the Spurs win the series. All teams at that time were trying to shape their roster to stop Shaq. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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SuperboyReformed Star Player
Joined: 07 Oct 2012 Posts: 4083
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Posted: Wed May 13, 2020 9:59 am Post subject: |
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venturalakersfan wrote: | SuperboyReformed wrote: | venturalakersfan wrote: | 1hu2ren3dui4 wrote: | I dont wanna take anything away from Shaqs 3 finals mvps. He absolutely dominated those eastern conference teams.
But during those years, the battle for the the championship always peaked in the western conference finals. During which Kobe felt like the superhero and Shaq seemed like the sidekick. |
Shaq battled two all time greats in Duncan and Robinson. That is no sidekick, that showed how dominant Shaq was. |
except that is the one series where shaq was kobe's sidekick. lol |
No, Kobe wouldn’t have had success if TD and Robinson were concentrating on stopping him as they were on Shaq. They knew that Shaq was who they needed to stop. Put someone like Divac at center and the Spurs win the series. All teams at that time were trying to shape their roster to stop Shaq. |
regardless how you view it, the spurs series is the worst example to bring up as far as kobe being sidekick. |
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activeverb Retired Number
Joined: 17 Jun 2006 Posts: 37470
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Posted: Wed May 13, 2020 11:47 am Post subject: |
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SuperboyReformed wrote: | venturalakersfan wrote: | SuperboyReformed wrote: | venturalakersfan wrote: | 1hu2ren3dui4 wrote: | I dont wanna take anything away from Shaqs 3 finals mvps. He absolutely dominated those eastern conference teams.
But during those years, the battle for the the championship always peaked in the western conference finals. During which Kobe felt like the superhero and Shaq seemed like the sidekick. |
Shaq battled two all time greats in Duncan and Robinson. That is no sidekick, that showed how dominant Shaq was. |
except that is the one series where shaq was kobe's sidekick. lol |
No, Kobe wouldn’t have had success if TD and Robinson were concentrating on stopping him as they were on Shaq. They knew that Shaq was who they needed to stop. Put someone like Divac at center and the Spurs win the series. All teams at that time were trying to shape their roster to stop Shaq. |
regardless how you view it, the spurs series is the worst example to bring up as far as kobe being sidekick. |
It's a mistake to overemphasis any one of the 12 playoff series, or any one round, during the threepeat.
The western conference finals against the Spurs in the second year really wasn't a big deal. We blew past them 4-0, winning the last two games by an average of 25 points. Both Kobe and Shaq played great.
That was really a parity year. In the playoffs we beat Portland (50 wins), Sacramento (55), the Spurs (58), the 76ers (56). We sliced through everyone with ease, and I don't think the Spurs were any better than anyone else we faced. |
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SuperboyReformed Star Player
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Posted: Wed May 13, 2020 1:18 pm Post subject: |
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the mistake here is this idea that the spurs were easy because we rolled through them 4-0. some of you will say anything to win an argument. |
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KindCrippler2000 Franchise Player
Joined: 02 May 2003 Posts: 15821
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Posted: Wed May 13, 2020 3:49 pm Post subject: |
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In the 2001 playoffs, I'd say they were 1A/1B. |
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Day Star Player
Joined: 12 Mar 2012 Posts: 1737 Location: San Francisco, CA
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Posted: Wed May 13, 2020 11:18 pm Post subject: |
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venturalakersfan wrote: | SuperboyReformed wrote: | venturalakersfan wrote: | 1hu2ren3dui4 wrote: | I dont wanna take anything away from Shaqs 3 finals mvps. He absolutely dominated those eastern conference teams.
But during those years, the battle for the the championship always peaked in the western conference finals. During which Kobe felt like the superhero and Shaq seemed like the sidekick. |
Shaq battled two all time greats in Duncan and Robinson. That is no sidekick, that showed how dominant Shaq was. |
except that is the one series where shaq was kobe's sidekick. lol |
No, Kobe wouldn’t have had success if TD and Robinson were concentrating on stopping him as they were on Shaq. They knew that Shaq was who they needed to stop. Put someone like Divac at center and the Spurs win the series. All teams at that time were trying to shape their roster to stop Shaq. |
And if they had a weaker guard they wouldn't have won the series either. Kobe was the MVP of the entirety of each of the last 2 championship runs, Shaq was the finals MVP because the Leastern conference. |
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dries Starting Rotation
Joined: 14 Mar 2005 Posts: 722
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Posted: Thu May 14, 2020 4:12 am Post subject: |
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emplay wrote: | Kobe pushed the Lakers past the Spurs but it took Shaq playing those dudes even to give the Lakers a shot |
30/7/7 is not just "pushing". Smh, only in 2000 was he the best sidekick in the history. |
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venturalakersfan Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144474 Location: The Gold Coast
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Posted: Thu May 14, 2020 6:54 am Post subject: |
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Day wrote: | venturalakersfan wrote: | SuperboyReformed wrote: | venturalakersfan wrote: | 1hu2ren3dui4 wrote: | I dont wanna take anything away from Shaqs 3 finals mvps. He absolutely dominated those eastern conference teams.
But during those years, the battle for the the championship always peaked in the western conference finals. During which Kobe felt like the superhero and Shaq seemed like the sidekick. |
Shaq battled two all time greats in Duncan and Robinson. That is no sidekick, that showed how dominant Shaq was. |
except that is the one series where shaq was kobe's sidekick. lol |
No, Kobe wouldn’t have had success if TD and Robinson were concentrating on stopping him as they were on Shaq. They knew that Shaq was who they needed to stop. Put someone like Divac at center and the Spurs win the series. All teams at that time were trying to shape their roster to stop Shaq. |
And if they had a weaker guard they wouldn't have won the series either. Kobe was the MVP of the entirety of each of the last 2 championship runs, Shaq was the finals MVP because the Leastern conference. |
Kobe was never MVP while Shaq was on the team. Definitely in the Pau days. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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activeverb Retired Number
Joined: 17 Jun 2006 Posts: 37470
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Posted: Thu May 14, 2020 11:09 am Post subject: |
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SuperboyReformed wrote: | the mistake here is this idea that the spurs were easy because we rolled through them 4-0. some of you will say anything to win an argument. |
My opinion wasn't that the Spurs were easy. It's that they weren't really any harder than the other teams we bulldozed through in the playoffs who all had similar regular season records. So I am arguing against the idea that how players performed in that series was more important than how they performed in other rounds or that that was the "true" finals.
I don't see this as a case of trying to "win" an argument. For me, this is an exchange of ideas, rather than a competition. I am always up for hearing an interesting take on the topic whether it is in agreement or disagreement with my own. |
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Day Star Player
Joined: 12 Mar 2012 Posts: 1737 Location: San Francisco, CA
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Posted: Thu May 14, 2020 12:58 pm Post subject: |
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venturalakersfan wrote: | Day wrote: | venturalakersfan wrote: | SuperboyReformed wrote: | venturalakersfan wrote: | 1hu2ren3dui4 wrote: | I dont wanna take anything away from Shaqs 3 finals mvps. He absolutely dominated those eastern conference teams.
But during those years, the battle for the the championship always peaked in the western conference finals. During which Kobe felt like the superhero and Shaq seemed like the sidekick. |
Shaq battled two all time greats in Duncan and Robinson. That is no sidekick, that showed how dominant Shaq was. |
except that is the one series where shaq was kobe's sidekick. lol |
No, Kobe wouldn’t have had success if TD and Robinson were concentrating on stopping him as they were on Shaq. They knew that Shaq was who they needed to stop. Put someone like Divac at center and the Spurs win the series. All teams at that time were trying to shape their roster to stop Shaq. |
And if they had a weaker guard they wouldn't have won the series either. Kobe was the MVP of the entirety of each of the last 2 championship runs, Shaq was the finals MVP because the Leastern conference. |
Kobe was never MVP while Shaq was on the team. Definitely in the Pau days. |
You've already shown your bias by crediting everything Kobe did to Shaq. No matter what Kobe did you'll say it's because of the attention Shaq got in the post. Not sure how you can say Kobe wasn't MVP while Shaq was fouled out on the bench though. |
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