What if Ariza was healthy in 2008?
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Palin
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PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2020 8:15 pm    Post subject: What if Ariza was healthy in 2008?

Would we beat those guys? Although hes not great one on one defender He was clearly better than Luke and Radmanovic. Pierce killed us in that finals and little help would make a difference tbh.

Last edited by Palin on Fri May 22, 2020 3:03 am; edited 1 time in total
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activeverb
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PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2020 8:54 pm    Post subject: Re: What if Ariza was healthy in 2018?

Palin wrote:
Would we beat those guys? Although hes not great one on one defender He was clearly better than Luke and Radmanovic. Pierce killed us in that finals and little help would make a difference tbh.


There are a lot of woulda-coulda-shoulda rings in NBA history. I can't say a healthy Ariza is one of the stronger ones.
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PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2020 9:51 pm    Post subject:

I think the injury was significant but my guess is the Celtics still take that series. Gasol really struggled and I don’t think Ariza changes that. I think the Bynum injury was more significant and changes more of the matchups. But I’m hesitant to say even a healthy Bynum changes the outcome.

The loss in 2008 really gave the team extra motivation and the team came back stronger the next year. I think it also gave the team more motivation to beat Boston in 2010 and for me it made that victory even sweeter. The team didn’t even have much playoff experience in 2008 besides Kobe and Fisher but in the 2009 and 2010 Finals it wasn’t true anymore.
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J.C. Smith
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PostPosted: Fri May 22, 2020 1:57 am    Post subject:

Bynum injury was far more important. Ariza would have helped though.

I think that loss though especially after blowing a huge lead at home, and then suffering the over the top antics as the Celtics blew them out to close it probably helped to motivate the Lakers and put them over the top in the next two seasons.
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x75274
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PostPosted: Fri May 22, 2020 5:59 pm    Post subject:

We need to let this one go. Even with those 2, we arent winning game 1, 4 or 6. Game 2 is one of the worst officiated games I have ever seen against the Lakers, but even if we win that one, we would have to face Boston in game 7 at Boston. As much as I love my Lakers, if I had to bet my life or my families lives on that one game, there is no f'ing way in hell, I am choosing the Lakers to win Game 7 in Boston in 2008.
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PostPosted: Fri May 22, 2020 7:26 pm    Post subject:

x75274 wrote:
We need to let this one go. Even with those 2, we arent winning game 1, 4 or 6. Game 2 is one of the worst officiated games I have ever seen against the Lakers, but even if we win that one, we would have to face Boston in game 7 at Boston. As much as I love my Lakers, if I had to bet my life or my families lives on that one game, there is no f'ing way in hell, I am choosing the Lakers to win Game 7 in Boston in 2008.


It’s been 12 years.
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kikanga
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PostPosted: Fri May 22, 2020 8:52 pm    Post subject:

Kobe has 6 chips
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PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2020 6:39 am    Post subject:

Have these conversations with my brother all the time. The one we always talk about specific to this series is what if Pierce didn’t get “hurt” in Game 1. That was a huge momentum shift for them.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.businessinsider.com/paul-pierce-wheelchair-game-bathroom-finals-2019-6%3famp

The other what ifs we always talk about...

“What if Horry hit the 3 against the Spurs in Game 6?” 4-peat?

https://youtu.be/m6V1-UraQAs

“What if Kwame closed out on Tim Thomas better or LO got the rebound in Game 6 against the Suns?” Kobe vs Shaq Finals? I legit cried after this game

https://youtu.be/H_wykgldWLU

“What if Scott Williams didn’t fall on Malone’s knee?” 4 out of 5?

https://youtu.be/fwmIOKd27aA

“What if the CP3 trade didn’t get vetoed?” No Achilles injury?

Would have loved for KB to have 8 (imagine that?) and to have witnessed more of him in the playoffs. The only thing that keeps me sane thinking about and re-living these moments are all the times things went our way. Horry against the Kings, 0.4 (even though we lost), the Pau trade, the Kobe trade, B Shaw hitting the 3 against Portland to start the rally, etc.

https://youtu.be/FqpdCIX9xo4
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PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2020 7:10 am    Post subject:

(bleep) (bleep) James posey. If it weren’t for him who knows how it could have played out
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PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2020 9:17 am    Post subject: Re: What if Ariza was healthy in 2018?

activeverb wrote:
Palin wrote:
Would we beat those guys? Although hes not great one on one defender He was clearly better than Luke and Radmanovic. Pierce killed us in that finals and little help would make a difference tbh.


There are a lot of woulda-coulda-shoulda rings in NBA history. I can't say a healthy Ariza is one of the stronger ones.


Agreed. Same goes for the comments on Bynum's injury. It's easier to have peace seeing Rivers crying about not having Perkins for the game 7 two years later and not wanting to be like him. In theory, I don't think they have the collapse from game whatever (I don't want to look it up and relive old memories) with Ariza nor does Pierce have the impact but what ifs won't win titles. We had enough luck with .4, Horry and health of Kobe & Shaq/Kobe & Pau that I'm cool with it.
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PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2020 9:18 am    Post subject: Re: What if Ariza was healthy in 2018?

activeverb wrote:
Palin wrote:
Would we beat those guys? Although hes not great one on one defender He was clearly better than Luke and Radmanovic. Pierce killed us in that finals and little help would make a difference tbh.


There are a lot of woulda-coulda-shoulda rings in NBA history. I can't say a healthy Ariza is one of the stronger ones.


Agreed. Same goes for the comments on Bynum's injury. It's easier to have peace seeing Rivers crying about not having Perkins for the game 7 two years later and not wanting to be like him. In theory, I don't think they have the collapse from game whatever (I don't want to look it up and relive old memories) with Ariza nor does Pierce have the impact but what ifs won't win titles. We had enough luck with the Portland game 7, .4, the Orlando comeback, Horry's 3 vs Sac. and health of Kobe & Shaq/Kobe & Pau that I'm cool with it.
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audioaxes
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PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2020 12:13 pm    Post subject:

ive touched on this several times before but YES we win if we had 2009 playoff Ariza. Even a hobbled Ariza sparked a one man come back in one of those games before Phil pulled him.
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PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2020 1:41 pm    Post subject:

Ariza is one of those special role players that was just made for the Lakers. Of course he would've made a difference against the Celtics in 08. I think the bigger what-if is what if the negotiations between Kupchak and Trevor's agent hadn't gone south during the 09 summer. If we bring him back do we win in 2010? 2011? I think we do.
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PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2020 2:26 pm    Post subject:

I thought about whether we would've won it all in 2008 with a healthy Ariza and Bynum, and I still say no.

The Celtics had the same team from day 1, which meant they had a championship mindset from day 1 of training camp.

We came to camp just wondering if Kobe would still be a Laker, and if he stayed, if we would've made the playoffs. It wasn't until February that we were thinking Finals.

Plus, the Celtics were in their early 30s and were treating it as if it were the only opportunity they would ever get. We were thinking that we were going to contend for rings for the next 3-5 years.
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PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2020 2:34 pm    Post subject:

panamaniac wrote:
Ariza is one of those special role players that was just made for the Lakers. Of course he would've made a difference against the Celtics in 08. I think the bigger what-if is what if the negotiations between Kupchak and Trevor's agent hadn't gone south during the 09 summer. If we bring him back do we win in 2010? 2011? I think we do.


That was my hope, bring Ariza back and use the MLE on Jarrett Jack.
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PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2020 4:38 pm    Post subject:

LakersAlldaWay wrote:
Have these conversations with my brother all the time. The one we always talk about specific to this series is what if Pierce didn’t get “hurt” in Game 1. That was a huge momentum shift for them.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.businessinsider.com/paul-pierce-wheelchair-game-bathroom-finals-2019-6%3famp

The other what ifs we always talk about...

“What if Horry hit the 3 against the Spurs in Game 6?” 4-peat?

https://youtu.be/m6V1-UraQAs

“What if Kwame closed out on Tim Thomas better or LO got the rebound in Game 6 against the Suns?” Kobe vs Shaq Finals? I legit cried after this game

https://youtu.be/H_wykgldWLU

“What if Scott Williams didn’t fall on Malone’s knee?” 4 out of 5?

https://youtu.be/fwmIOKd27aA

“What if the CP3 trade didn’t get vetoed?” No Achilles injury?

Would have loved for KB to have 8 (imagine that?) and to have witnessed more of him in the playoffs. The only thing that keeps me sane thinking about and re-living these moments are all the times things went our way. Horry against the Kings, 0.4 (even though we lost), the Pau trade, the Kobe trade, B Shaw hitting the 3 against Portland to start the rally, etc.

https://youtu.be/FqpdCIX9xo4


Some of those bothered me not because I assume our team would have won, but because I’m curious how things would have played out. I’m not sure Horry making that shot in 2003 would have finished off the Spurs. That team was 8-2 against our team that year, they won game 6 easily and I think they were the better team at that point. Trying to 4-peat is so hard and things weren’t clicking then. Horry was so bad that postseason, Medvedenko played significant minutes, Fox was out, and our team got blown out a lot.

I REALLY wanted to see how things would have played out without the Tim Thomas three, but even getting past the Clippers would have been a challenge. I was hoping having the entire series in LA would give us the edge. If the Clippers played in a city like Seattle I think our team would be underdogs, which is why I’m not thrilled with that idea like other others are.

Momentum is overrated IMO. Horry made that shot in 2002 against the Kings and Sacramento still played tough the rest of the way.
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PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2020 7:03 pm    Post subject:

Ariza wasn't hurting against the Celtics. He returned and was completely healthy. I recall one of his teammates (Farmar?) calling him the best player in practice, prior to the finals. Phil was being stubborn and going with Luke because of "trust." At one of the late season/playoff games I had seen Trevor draining 3's in warmups, something he was incapable of doing at all before his injury. When the press asked why Ariza wasn't playing, Phil basically said he hadn't played in months and wasn't ready for the pounding. I once heard a stat that Ariza played 10 minutes during the playoffs.

I absolutely believe at the very least, he could have helped them hold onto the 24 pt lead they got and then blew at home. That was the series where Leon Powe was manhandling Luke. The only advantage Luke gave was not biting when Pierce pump faked on his shot. As soon as Phil saw Ariza do that, he pulled him and left him glued to the bench.

I've always blamed that series on Phil because he wouldn't give it his best. The next year he was pulling the same garbage before Luke finally told him to start Trevor instead of himself.
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PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2020 10:26 pm    Post subject:

So many damn illegal moving screens ...pj brown and kg. F! those refs!
Ariza wouldve helped, but we got punked badly. The loss of bynum hurt more.
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PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2020 11:31 pm    Post subject:

x75274 wrote:
We need to let this one go. Even with those 2, we arent winning game 1, 4 or 6. Game 2 is one of the worst officiated games I have ever seen against the Lakers, but even if we win that one, we would have to face Boston in game 7 at Boston. As much as I love my Lakers, if I had to bet my life or my families lives on that one game, there is no f'ing way in hell, I am choosing the Lakers to win Game 7 in Boston in 2008.


The (bleep)-ING Leon Powe game. This will always set me off when I think of it.
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PostPosted: Sun May 24, 2020 2:14 am    Post subject:

LakersAlldaWay wrote:
Have these conversations with my brother all the time. The one we always talk about specific to this series is what if Pierce didn’t get “hurt” in Game 1. That was a huge momentum shift for them.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.businessinsider.com/paul-pierce-wheelchair-game-bathroom-finals-2019-6%3famp

The other what ifs we always talk about...

“What if Horry hit the 3 against the Spurs in Game 6?” 4-peat?

https://youtu.be/m6V1-UraQAs

“What if Kwame closed out on Tim Thomas better or LO got the rebound in Game 6 against the Suns?” Kobe vs Shaq Finals? I legit cried after this game

https://youtu.be/H_wykgldWLU

“What if Scott Williams didn’t fall on Malone’s knee?” 4 out of 5?

https://youtu.be/fwmIOKd27aA

“What if the CP3 trade didn’t get vetoed?” No Achilles injury?

Would have loved for KB to have 8 (imagine that?) and to have witnessed more of him in the playoffs. The only thing that keeps me sane thinking about and re-living these moments are all the times things went our way. Horry against the Kings, 0.4 (even though we lost), the Pau trade, the Kobe trade, B Shaw hitting the 3 against Portland to start the rally, etc.

https://youtu.be/FqpdCIX9xo4


In my opinion
Horry - 4peat for sure
2006 - imo we beat the Clippers but lose in the conference finals
Malone - hardest to tell, i think its a MUCH closer series for sure at the least
CP3 - no achilles definitely, and depending on what other moves we make, possibly no.6 for Kobe. Oh well....
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PostPosted: Sun May 24, 2020 9:03 am    Post subject: Re: What if Ariza was healthy in 2018?

fansincemagic wrote:
activeverb wrote:
Palin wrote:
Would we beat those guys? Although hes not great one on one defender He was clearly better than Luke and Radmanovic. Pierce killed us in that finals and little help would make a difference tbh.


There are a lot of woulda-coulda-shoulda rings in NBA history. I can't say a healthy Ariza is one of the stronger ones.


Agreed. Same goes for the comments on Bynum's injury. It's easier to have peace seeing Rivers crying about not having Perkins for the game 7 two years later and not wanting to be like him. In theory, I don't think they have the collapse from game whatever (I don't want to look it up and relive old memories) with Ariza nor does Pierce have the impact but what ifs won't win titles. We had enough luck with .4, Horry and health of Kobe & Shaq/Kobe & Pau that I'm cool with it.



Ultimately, whatever happens happens, and that's all that matters. Injuries, good/bad luck, etc. are just part of the game.
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PostPosted: Sun May 24, 2020 12:49 pm    Post subject:

jonnybravo wrote:
x75274 wrote:
We need to let this one go. Even with those 2, we arent winning game 1, 4 or 6. Game 2 is one of the worst officiated games I have ever seen against the Lakers, but even if we win that one, we would have to face Boston in game 7 at Boston. As much as I love my Lakers, if I had to bet my life or my families lives on that one game, there is no f'ing way in hell, I am choosing the Lakers to win Game 7 in Boston in 2008.


The (bleep)-ING Leon Powe game. This will always set me off when I think of it.

me too. I always think about how Powe got better treatment by refs in that one game than Kobe did in all his FInals games. Really maddening.
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PostPosted: Sun May 24, 2020 8:01 pm    Post subject:

Echoing others, Bynum was much more important. Especially that year, he was figuring things out and actually enjoying playing basketball. He was very bouncy and would have really changed the matchups of the series
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PostPosted: Sun May 24, 2020 9:20 pm    Post subject:

10scott10 wrote:
Echoing others, Bynum was much more important. Especially that year, he was figuring things out and actually enjoying playing basketball. He was very bouncy and would have really changed the matchups of the series

very true.. Bynum was a beast, really great player for us. Goes underrated i think.
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PostPosted: Sun May 24, 2020 11:26 pm    Post subject:

SuperboyReformed wrote:
jonnybravo wrote:
x75274 wrote:
We need to let this one go. Even with those 2, we arent winning game 1, 4 or 6. Game 2 is one of the worst officiated games I have ever seen against the Lakers, but even if we win that one, we would have to face Boston in game 7 at Boston. As much as I love my Lakers, if I had to bet my life or my families lives on that one game, there is no f'ing way in hell, I am choosing the Lakers to win Game 7 in Boston in 2008.


The (bleep)-ING Leon Powe game. This will always set me off when I think of it.

me too. I always think about how Powe got better treatment by refs in that one game than Kobe did in all his FInals games. Really maddening.


By far this is what I remember most about that ridiculous series above all else.
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