Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
Posted: Wed Aug 12, 2020 6:19 am Post subject:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
Quote:
Sure. But it's a big part of success. Plenty of skilled players who lacked the intangibles to succeed at the NBA level.
Not when it's a weak draft.
That particular draft, if you arranged it by "best intangibles", would have probably nailed the entire draft even with limited information going out.
Every draft class is different in talent crop. Bennett displayed #1 talent for his class, especially by age, and would have gone lottery in a better draft.
But this is why teams interview players too.
I remember that draft. It was pretty much a consensus that he was a reach at #1. He was a lottery level player at the time, but not #1. I had Dipo at #1.
And this is why I'm more into player development.
I don't think Dipo ends up as great of a pick because Cleveland isn't great at player development. Look at their current lottery picks. Still terrible. But for Bennett, that was one of the worst situations for him to go to. _________________ Resident Car Nut.
Sure. But it's a big part of success. Plenty of skilled players who lacked the intangibles to succeed at the NBA level.
Not when it's a weak draft.
That particular draft, if you arranged it by "best intangibles", would have probably nailed the entire draft even with limited information going out.
Every draft class is different in talent crop. Bennett displayed #1 talent for his class, especially by age, and would have gone lottery in a better draft.
But this is why teams interview players too.
I remember that draft. It was pretty much a consensus that he was a reach at #1. He was a lottery level player at the time, but not #1. I had Dipo at #1.
And this is why I'm more into player development.
I don't think Dipo ends up as great of a pick because Cleveland isn't great at player development. Look at their current lottery picks. Still terrible. But for Bennett, that was one of the worst situations for him to go to.
Which is why being with Klutch and Lebron is big in terms of training and learning how to be a professional, as well as working on drills with Phil Handy whose previous work speaks for itself. Brandon Ingram was billed as Kevin Durant light and finally is reaching that potential. It takes time. THT has potential to be a Paul Pierce/ Kawhai style player due to his size, skill, work habits, and head on his shoulders. He is a tough kid from Chicago and a winner. Glad we have found talented young player to root for again even though it’s on a veteran roster(gone are Randle, Clarkson, DLO, Ingram, Hart, Lonzo Ball, Zubac, T Bryant, Wagner, Bonga, etc.)
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
Posted: Wed Aug 12, 2020 12:48 pm Post subject:
Laker4lifer4real wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
Quote:
Sure. But it's a big part of success. Plenty of skilled players who lacked the intangibles to succeed at the NBA level.
Not when it's a weak draft.
That particular draft, if you arranged it by "best intangibles", would have probably nailed the entire draft even with limited information going out.
Every draft class is different in talent crop. Bennett displayed #1 talent for his class, especially by age, and would have gone lottery in a better draft.
But this is why teams interview players too.
I remember that draft. It was pretty much a consensus that he was a reach at #1. He was a lottery level player at the time, but not #1. I had Dipo at #1.
And this is why I'm more into player development.
I don't think Dipo ends up as great of a pick because Cleveland isn't great at player development. Look at their current lottery picks. Still terrible. But for Bennett, that was one of the worst situations for him to go to.
Which is why being with Klutch and Lebron is big in terms of training and learning how to be a professional, as well as working on drills with Phil Handy whose previous work speaks for itself. Brandon Ingram was billed as Kevin Durant light and finally is reaching that potential. It takes time. THT has potential to be a Paul Pierce/ Kawhai style player due to his size, skill, work habits, and head on his shoulders. He is a tough kid from Chicago and a winner. Glad we have found talented young player to root for again even though it’s on a veteran roster(gone are Randle, Clarkson, DLO, Ingram, Hart, Lonzo Ball, Zubac, T Bryant, Wagner, Bonga, etc.)
While I disagree with the player comparisons, I do think LAL did a great job considering how many rookies all had to improve and perform at the same time. 4+ prospects is A LOT for a team, and I think additional assistant coaches that are development focused, or more skills coaches to make it work.
You basically end up with guys that do want to win, but are also focused on just trying to get to their second contract.
LAL did a great job scouting and even buying picks to get certain players. That's half the battle. The other half is development. It's not always on the individual player, especially when they're 17-20 years old. _________________ Resident Car Nut.
We’ve had so many young players come through this organization since 2014. Caruso and Kuzma are proving why they are still here, plus they started a little bit older. The Lakers organization is no place for a 19 year old. Hope we bring this kid up right. _________________ “You have to dance beautifully in the box that you are comfortable dancing in.” - Kobe Bryant
Some of these comparisons are wild. Ending up as some mix of Shawn Livingston and George Hill is probably a far more realistic ceiling. And that would make for an excellent role player alongside two stars.
Some of these comparisons are wild. Ending up as some mix of Shawn Livingston and George Hill is probably a far more realistic ceiling. And that would make for an excellent role player alongside two stars.
His sneaky long wingspan makes me think he can be an Iggy type defender, his craftiness around the ring shows me he can have CP3 type finishing efficiency, and his right to left dribble move shows me he has that Tim Hardaway shake. he could start TOMORROW /s
On a serious note he has good skills, if he keeps working he can be a solid PG on a team with championship aspirations. Still young still lots of room to grow.
He's a version of Dion Waiters that you can introduce to your mom. _________________ It was reminiscent of one of those Most Interesting Man in the World advertisements: "I don't always shoot 6-for-28 from the field, but when I do, I become the youngest player in league history to score 28,000 career points."
I was watching an old Lakers game last night. Rookie THT isn’t that different than Rookie DLO. Slower, Cerebral, Long ass arms, decent 3 ball, creative to the hoop. Here’s to hoping I guess. _________________ “You have to dance beautifully in the box that you are comfortable dancing in.” - Kobe Bryant
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144432 Location: The Gold Coast
Posted: Fri Aug 14, 2020 2:04 pm Post subject:
AFireInside619 wrote:
We’ve had so many young players come through this organization since 2014. Caruso and Kuzma are proving why they are still here, plus they started a little bit older. The Lakers organization is no place for a 19 year old. Hope we bring this kid up right.
Caruso and Kuzma are here because Griffin didn’t want them. And that very likely could have been because they were older with a more limited window. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023.
We’ve had so many young players come through this organization since 2014. Caruso and Kuzma are proving why they are still here, plus they started a little bit older. The Lakers organization is no place for a 19 year old. Hope we bring this kid up right.
Caruso and Kuzma are here because Griffin didn’t want them. And that very likely could have been because they were older with a more limited window.
Is that opinion based on anything other than a guess? I saw lots of reports that the Pelicans were interested in Kuzma.
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
Posted: Fri Aug 14, 2020 2:35 pm Post subject:
activeverb wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
AFireInside619 wrote:
We’ve had so many young players come through this organization since 2014. Caruso and Kuzma are proving why they are still here, plus they started a little bit older. The Lakers organization is no place for a 19 year old. Hope we bring this kid up right.
Caruso and Kuzma are here because Griffin didn’t want them. And that very likely could have been because they were older with a more limited window.
Is that opinion based on anything other than a guess? I saw lots of reports that the Pelicans were interested in Kuzma.
I think it was more along the lines of, LAL got to keep 1 guy, and it was between Hart and Kuzma because of their rookie scale contracts. _________________ Resident Car Nut.
We’ve had so many young players come through this organization since 2014. Caruso and Kuzma are proving why they are still here, plus they started a little bit older. The Lakers organization is no place for a 19 year old. Hope we bring this kid up right.
Caruso and Kuzma are here because Griffin didn’t want them. And that very likely could have been because they were older with a more limited window.
Is that opinion based on anything other than a guess? I saw lots of reports that the Pelicans were interested in Kuzma.
I think it was more along the lines of, LAL got to keep 1 guy, and it was between Hart and Kuzma because of their rookie scale contracts.
Off topic, but when the trade went down, I'd have preferred to keep Hart -someone who fit more naturally next to Lebron/AD and was already on a pathway to becoming one of the better 3 and D players in this league.
Now? I think I like Kuz' trajectory better, and Hart seems to have stagnated in his development (with the caveat that I don't watch most Pels' games, but going by what I did see and his numbers). Like Kuz, he needs to find some consistency with his shot. He's also not nearly as good defensively as his reputation would suggest, though none of those guys particularly did well on that end under Gentry this season. But not a lot of 3'ing and D'ing for him...
He needs to find his way onto the Spurs where he belongs.
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
Posted: Fri Aug 14, 2020 3:23 pm Post subject:
TheBlackMamba wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
activeverb wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
AFireInside619 wrote:
We’ve had so many young players come through this organization since 2014. Caruso and Kuzma are proving why they are still here, plus they started a little bit older. The Lakers organization is no place for a 19 year old. Hope we bring this kid up right.
Caruso and Kuzma are here because Griffin didn’t want them. And that very likely could have been because they were older with a more limited window.
Is that opinion based on anything other than a guess? I saw lots of reports that the Pelicans were interested in Kuzma.
I think it was more along the lines of, LAL got to keep 1 guy, and it was between Hart and Kuzma because of their rookie scale contracts.
Off topic, but when the trade went down, I'd have preferred to keep Hart -someone who fit more naturally next to Lebron/AD and was already on a pathway to becoming one of the better 3 and D players in this league.
Now? I think I like Kuz' trajectory better, and Hart seems to have stagnated in his development (with the caveat that I don't watch most Pels' games, but going by what I did see and his numbers). Like Kuz, he needs to find some consistency with his shot. He's also not nearly as good defensively as his reputation would suggest, though none of those guys particularly did well on that end under Gentry this season. But not a lot of 3'ing and D'ing for him...
He needs to find his way onto the Spurs where he belongs.
I disagree. Hart was my favorite player back then, but the team really lacked scoring prowess and depending while Hart is a solid defender, he's especially weak 1v1 off the dribble.
There's also the part where, free agency that year lacked wings outside of Kawhi. Guards, generally speaking are easier to replace.
Fortunately Kuzma has walked in to be that natural fit. _________________ Resident Car Nut.
We’ve had so many young players come through this organization since 2014. Caruso and Kuzma are proving why they are still here, plus they started a little bit older. The Lakers organization is no place for a 19 year old. Hope we bring this kid up right.
Caruso and Kuzma are here because Griffin didn’t want them. And that very likely could have been because they were older with a more limited window.
Is that opinion based on anything other than a guess? I saw lots of reports that the Pelicans were interested in Kuzma.
I think it was more along the lines of, LAL got to keep 1 guy, and it was between Hart and Kuzma because of their rookie scale contracts.
Off topic, but when the trade went down, I'd have preferred to keep Hart -someone who fit more naturally next to Lebron/AD and was already on a pathway to becoming one of the better 3 and D players in this league.
Now? I think I like Kuz' trajectory better, and Hart seems to have stagnated in his development (with the caveat that I don't watch most Pels' games, but going by what I did see and his numbers). Like Kuz, he needs to find some consistency with his shot. He's also not nearly as good defensively as his reputation would suggest, though none of those guys particularly did well on that end under Gentry this season. But not a lot of 3'ing and D'ing for him...
He needs to find his way onto the Spurs where he belongs.
I disagree. Hart was my favorite player back then, but the team really lacked scoring prowess and depending while Hart is a solid defender, he's especially weak 1v1 off the dribble.
There's also the part where, free agency that year lacked wings outside of Kawhi. Guards, generally speaking are easier to replace.
Fortunately Kuzma has walked in to be that natural fit.
Well I do admit I was wrong last summer, since Kuz is now looking like he's gonna have a nice playoff run for us on both ends. Like I said, his trajectory now looks clearly better, albeit on this small sample size of bubble play and sort of dating back to the ASB. Plus he's fitting in better like you said, just took some time (naturally) to adjust to playing with Lebron/AD.
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
Posted: Fri Aug 14, 2020 3:51 pm Post subject:
Quote:
Well I do admit I was wrong last summer, since Kuz is now looking like he's gonna have a nice playoff run for us on both ends. Like I said, his trajectory now looks clearly better, albeit on this small sample size of bubble play and sort of dating back to the ASB. Plus he's fitting in better like you said, just took some time (naturally) to adjust to playing with Lebron/AD.
Nobody could have predicted this. That's the thing.
Really, props to Kuzma. It's difficult to change archetypes, especially so young. _________________ Resident Car Nut.
Off topic, but when the trade went down, I'd have preferred to keep Hart -someone who fit more naturally next to Lebron/AD and was already on a pathway to becoming one of the better 3 and D players in this league.
He's hardly one of the better 3-and-D players in the league.
In fact, this year there are 7 Pelicans who are better 3-point shooters than him.
THT has had nice moments and while I want to pump the breaks on the lofty hopes.. I do want to acknowledge how great we have become at drafting.
Julius, Clarkson
- Clarkson ws huge steal and Julius was fair value for spot tho Lavine would be better long term.
D'lo, Nance, Brown
- Nance was great value and 27 and Brown was a 2nd round bust. D'lo was a huge success over Okafor though Porzingis was the better choice.
Ingram, Zubac
- Ingram is a stud all star and perfect pick and Zubac is the starting center on a championship team. Steal.
Lonzo, Kuzma, Hart, Bryant
- Lonzo was probably the biggest whiff so far but IMO that was all Magic. Tatum was there and Fox would have been better. Kuzma was a huge steal at 27. Hart was a great selection and will have a long career. Bryant has turned into a quality shooting big in the NBA who just averaged 19ppg in he bubble.
Wagner, Bonga, Svi
- Some better options but Moe's shooting and energy will keep him in the NBA for awhile. Could have had Robinson as a building block. Magic wanted the rah rah Wagner from Michigan instead. Bongaa had better option but at least he's got more years in the NBA. Svi for his draft spot is a contributing shooter.
THT
- Bought a pick and found a contributer who could be around a long while
Overall some better options but except for Brown, all all contributing the NBA... some stars, some 6th man of the year level, some high level role players. No busts... sans Brown.
Off topic, but when the trade went down, I'd have preferred to keep Hart -someone who fit more naturally next to Lebron/AD and was already on a pathway to becoming one of the better 3 and D players in this league.
He's hardly one of the better 3-and-D players in the league.
In fact, this year there are 7 Pelicans who are better 3-point shooters than him.
THT has had nice moments and while I want to pump the breaks on the lofty hopes.. I do want to acknowledge how great we have become at drafting.
Julius, Clarkson
- Clarkson ws huge steal and Julius was fair value for spot tho Lavine would be better long term.
D'lo, Nance, Brown
- Nance was great value and 27 and Brown was a 2nd round bust. D'lo was a huge success over Okafor though Porzingis was the better choice.
Ingram, Zubac
- Ingram is a stud all star and perfect pick and Zubac is the starting center on a championship team. Steal.
Lonzo, Kuzma, Hart, Bryant
- Lonzo was probably the biggest whiff so far but IMO that was all Magic. Tatum was there and Fox would have been better. Kuzma was a huge steal at 27. Hart was a great selection and will have a long career. Bryant has turned into a quality shooting big in the NBA who just averaged 19ppg in he bubble.
Wagner, Bonga, Svi
- Some better options but Moe's shooting and energy will keep him in the NBA for awhile. Could have had Robinson as a building block. Magic wanted the rah rah Wagner from Michigan instead. Bongaa had better option but at least he's got more years in the NBA. Svi for his draft spot is a contributing shooter.
THT
- Bought a pick and found a contributer who could be around a long while
Overall some better options but except for Brown, all all contributing the NBA... some stars, some 6th man of the year level, some high level role players. No busts... sans Brown.
Our scouting have been very good for years
Take a look at the Celtics draft history. They had all the picks in the world and turned 90% to (bleep)
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144432 Location: The Gold Coast
Posted: Sat Aug 15, 2020 7:26 am Post subject:
activeverb wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
AFireInside619 wrote:
We’ve had so many young players come through this organization since 2014. Caruso and Kuzma are proving why they are still here, plus they started a little bit older. The Lakers organization is no place for a 19 year old. Hope we bring this kid up right.
Caruso and Kuzma are here because Griffin didn’t want them. And that very likely could have been because they were older with a more limited window.
Is that opinion based on anything other than a guess? I saw lots of reports that the Pelicans were interested in Kuzma.
Yes, it is based on a trade that the Lakers made with the Pelicans. The Lakers weren’t walking away from AD because of Kuzma or Caruso. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023.
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