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Mike@LG
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2020 6:55 am    Post subject:

carjoch831 wrote:
Mike, do you think Bane can overcome his lack of athleticism and wingspan in the NBA? Any past/current players that remind you of his style of play?


Bane is a high IQ guy that uses strength. I see him and think Wesley Matthews. His movement shooting isn't highest level movement shooting, but he gets his feet set and makes smart passes.

I expected him to be drafted in the teens.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2020 11:50 am    Post subject:

Mike who are your top 3-5 picks at #29
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2020 12:24 pm    Post subject:

PayasoLoco wrote:
Mike who are your top 3-5 picks at #29


Leandro Bolmaro
Desmond Bane
Grant Riller
Malachi Flynn
Isaiah Joe
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2020 12:37 pm    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
iimarshon wrote:
Who are the best wing defenders slated to go in the 18-40 range?

Desmond Bane is a really good wing defender, yeah?


Tyler Bey

Thoughts on Bey at #29? I see he was not listed on your top 5

I don't know much about these college prospects, but I see him mocked around the range of our pick. I know he has a reputation of being a great defender. Just intrigued at us continuing to pick defense first guys. Our defense against Miami was stifling especially Game 6. Would love to keep that mentality going next season
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2020 2:08 pm    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
PlantedTanks wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
iimarshon wrote:
Who are the best wing defenders slated to go in the 18-40 range?

Desmond Bane is a really good wing defender, yeah?


Tyler Bey


There are not many that match this criteria. This is the reason I like Robert Woodard II. The added bonus is he also displays skills on the offensive end.


I think Woodard is a PF that doesn't have much athletic lift. I am concerned about his shooting #s because his FT% doesn't align with his 3pt %, but it makes sense that he's low volume behind the arc. Would much rather have Reggie Perry than Woodard.


I am not sure of your definition of athletic lift but I see Woodard as a run and jump athlete with the benefit of a nice wingspan. THT is my definition of a non athletic lift player who without the benefit of his wingspan looses a lot of his appeal.

I see Woodard as capable of playing either SF/PF similar to Kuzma.

The one aspect that really hit home with me in these playoffs is the big advantage for a player is having strength and girth. I always saw it with Lebron but AD (all the Lakers really), Butler, Jokic, Murray, Bam and others just keyed me in on this. Woodard fits this profile.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2020 3:04 pm    Post subject:

Shaolin's Finest wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
iimarshon wrote:
Who are the best wing defenders slated to go in the 18-40 range?

Desmond Bane is a really good wing defender, yeah?


Tyler Bey

Thoughts on Bey at #29? I see he was not listed on your top 5

I don't know much about these college prospects, but I see him mocked around the range of our pick. I know he has a reputation of being a great defender. Just intrigued at us continuing to pick defense first guys. Our defense against Miami was stifling especially Game 6. Would love to keep that mentality going next season


Not mad, but not my favorite? He's basically the mold of Harkless/Ariza of a wing player that played 4 so his defensive fundamentals in terms of man defense are higher than others. He's feet first, chest 2nd, hands 3rd, which is so critical to being a great positional defender while keeping fouls down. Difference here is, the 3pt shot has to matter right? So how many years will it take for him to get there? Took Ariza and Harkless for awhile. He's what I would call an "average" pick at #28. Do I think he's BPA? Not really. Do I think he has a great foundation of offensive skill? Honestly, I think there was a lot hidden because he was forced to play "big," but we're not seeing much with the ball handling, even if he is an underrated passer of sorts.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2020 3:05 pm    Post subject:

PlantedTanks wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
PlantedTanks wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
iimarshon wrote:
Who are the best wing defenders slated to go in the 18-40 range?

Desmond Bane is a really good wing defender, yeah?


Tyler Bey


There are not many that match this criteria. This is the reason I like Robert Woodard II. The added bonus is he also displays skills on the offensive end.


I think Woodard is a PF that doesn't have much athletic lift. I am concerned about his shooting #s because his FT% doesn't align with his 3pt %, but it makes sense that he's low volume behind the arc. Would much rather have Reggie Perry than Woodard.


I am not sure of your definition of athletic lift but I see Woodard as a run and jump athlete with the benefit of a nice wingspan. THT is my definition of a non athletic lift player who without the benefit of his wingspan looses a lot of his appeal.

I see Woodard as capable of playing either SF/PF similar to Kuzma.

The one aspect that really hit home with me in these playoffs is the big advantage for a player is having strength and girth. I always saw it with Lebron but AD (all the Lakers really), Butler, Jokic, Murray, Bam and others just keyed me in on this. Woodard fits this profile.


Both guys have long wingspans except THT has wing level ball handling and is 6'2.5" w/o shoes. What does Woodard have that makes up for that?

Woodard is not a great vertical athlete btw. Has enough issues hitting the brakes defensively. That makes him fine at PF but not SF.

Kuzma was a different kind of PF/SF.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2020 4:08 pm    Post subject:

1. Trade down.
2. Trade out.
3. If draft, then:

Expect to be taken before LAL pick:
Leandro Bolmaro
Desmond Bane
Grant Riller

Around LAL pick:
Malachi Flynn
Isaiah Joe
Tre Jones

2nd rounders on trade down:
Xavier Tillman
Killian Tillie
Reggie Perry
Tyler Bey
Cassius Winston

Skylar Mays
Udoka Azubuike
Mason Jones
Nate Hinton
Devon Dotson (no idea where to put him)
Paul Reed
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2020 4:59 pm    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
PlantedTanks wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
PlantedTanks wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
iimarshon wrote:
Who are the best wing defenders slated to go in the 18-40 range?

Desmond Bane is a really good wing defender, yeah?


Tyler Bey


There are not many that match this criteria. This is the reason I like Robert Woodard II. The added bonus is he also displays skills on the offensive end.


I think Woodard is a PF that doesn't have much athletic lift. I am concerned about his shooting #s because his FT% doesn't align with his 3pt %, but it makes sense that he's low volume behind the arc. Would much rather have Reggie Perry than Woodard.


I am not sure of your definition of athletic lift but I see Woodard as a run and jump athlete with the benefit of a nice wingspan. THT is my definition of a non athletic lift player who without the benefit of his wingspan looses a lot of his appeal.

I see Woodard as capable of playing either SF/PF similar to Kuzma.

The one aspect that really hit home with me in these playoffs is the big advantage for a player is having strength and girth. I always saw it with Lebron but AD (all the Lakers really), Butler, Jokic, Murray, Bam and others just keyed me in on this. Woodard fits this profile.


Both guys have long wingspans except THT has wing level ball handling and is 6'2.5" w/o shoes. What does Woodard have that makes up for that?

Woodard is not a great vertical athlete btw. Has enough issues hitting the brakes defensively. That makes him fine at PF but not SF.

Kuzma was a different kind of PF/SF.


About 4" in height and not a great vert but good in my opinion. Does not have THT type handles but most SF's do not (e.g. Jaylen Brown). Still looks coordinated with the ball, good shooter and defender and should be able to seamlessly switch on the perimeter.

Not the same type of player as Kuzma but has better strength/girth and won't be overmatched at either position.

I like THT and I just used him as an example of non athletic lift, not comparing against Woodard as a player.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2020 5:58 pm    Post subject:

Quote:


About 4" in height and not a great vert but good in my opinion. Does not have THT type handles but most SF's do not (e.g. Jaylen Brown). Still looks coordinated with the ball, good shooter and defender and should be able to seamlessly switch on the perimeter.


I still think he's a PF. I'm not bought into the shooting. I'm especially not bought into his TO rate with an sub average USG rate. I'd much rather prefer quite a few players over Woodard.

Quote:
Not the same type of player as Kuzma but has better strength/girth and won't be overmatched at either position.


Which is why I think he's a 4.

Quote:
I like THT and I just used him as an example of non athletic lift, not comparing against Woodard as a player.
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Except THT has other things that help compensate for it. What does Woodard have that I can rely on? This is why I have him mid to late 2nd. THT, I was very sure about his level of vision, his Iso shot creating, the position he was on Iowa St. I knew he had a great foundation. So, what does Woodard have? I can't trust his 3pt% considering his FT%. I can't trust his rebounding, when he's already NBA 4 size. I can't trust the TO rate, the Iso shot creation, negative assist/TO rate.

It's already a weak draft. I would rather have Azubuike, Skylar Mays, Killian Tillie, Tyler Bey, Mason Jones, Reggie Perry, Nate Hinton, Devon Dotson, and Paul Reed over Woodard, and those are all guys that I have in the 2nd round. I even expect Mason Jones to outplay his draft position but I don't trust his health.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2020 7:03 pm    Post subject:

The last Vecenie pod:

LaMelo
Wiseman
Edwards
Okoro
Pat Williams

Okongwu
Haliburton
Killian Hayes
Vassell

Toppin
Saddiq Bey
Deni
Nesmith
Hampton

Kira Lewis Jr
Previous Achuiwa
Jalen Smith
Desmond Bane
Tyrese Maxey

Pokusevski
Malachi Flynn
Xavier Tillman
Jalen McDaniels
Tyrell Terry

Isaiah Stewart
Cole Anthony
Grant riler
Tre Jones (LAL)
Robert Woodard
Josh Green (Would be BPA for LAL imho)

Remaining:

Bolmaro
Mannion
Isaiah Joe
Theo Maledon
Tyler Bey
Udoka Azuibuike
Mason Jones
Reggie Perry
Lamine Diane
Nate Hinton
Zeke Nnaji
Devon Dotson
Paul Reed
Payton Prichard
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Baron Von Humongous
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2020 8:46 pm    Post subject:

PlantedTanks wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
PlantedTanks wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
PlantedTanks wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
PlantedTanks wrote:
Big men will make a comeback into prominence imo. LAC and the Celtics lost in part to not having a big man to counter Jokic and Bam respectively.

More prospects are coming up thru the pipeline in the next couple of years.

Where would the Lakers be without Dwight and Javale?

Hope they find one to develop to team with AD.

We're already 3-4 seasons into the comeback, but a great team still needs a star initiator more than a star big man.


Bam and Jokic are also initiators. LAL didn't exploit Jokic's defense as much and Bam is a plenty capable defender. It's not surprising when those bigmen are basically part of the best overachieving playoff teams.

When people think bigman, it's more like "pick and roll" guys with no offensive skill.

That, is pretty much dead. Post guys that require a lot of time with the ball and can't create plays well? Dinosaurs.


Agree but the next gen of big men appear much more multi faceted than their predecessors. They also appear to be morphing into more athletic agile and better skilled athletes. It may take another 7-8 years for them to be integrated into the league but I believe they are coming.

In the meantime we take the Poku and Wiseman types and see how they develop.

I'm really not seeing the Wiseman skill outside of midpost jumpers.


Rim protector, shot blocker, rebounding, 7'6" wingspan, good athlete with agility. Certainly more athletic and skilled than Ayton imo.

19 years old. Still has a lot of time to develop. Now I can't judge his bbiq or work ethic and this will determine his outcome as a player.

Ayton at Arizona: https://youtube.com/watch?v=-mfrZtajDQE

Wiseman at Memphis: https://youtube.com/watch?v=Wn7Hc1uoRAM

I'm not seeing a gap. As many issues as I had with Ayton coming out of college in 2018, I'd be comfortable taking him with the #1 pick in this draft. He has quicker feet than Wiseman and better offensive recognition and passing touch (going off of full games).


From these and other vids I still have the opinion Wiseman is the more agile fluid athlete with some SF skills. I do like Ayton but at this stage he is similar to the player I thought he would be.

With Ayton I don't see a 25+ scorer with all defensive ability and rim protection. I believe those are possible with Wiseman as he can play a more balanced inside-outside game and his agility allows him to be more impactful on defense and as a shot blocker.

What do you think of Wiseman versus 2021 C prospect Evan Mobley?
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2020 8:52 pm    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
Megaton wrote:
I was just watching stuff on Tyrell Terry. The kid’s shot is pure. I love it.

He definitely is ideal here. If he can develop into a stronger body, he is going to be a dangerous guard.


I have him mid 2nd round.

I think that's nuts, Mike. Wow. Please name 10-20 players you have ahead of him when you have time.


It's not so much of a player list.

He can shoot. He needs a motion offense to get open. LAL doesn't exactly play that, so I don't think LAL is the place for him to succeed.

On top of that,

Doesn't have advanced ball handling (PnR play/multiple change of direction?)
Not shifty
Not quick
Not strong
Can't defend

It's so hard for small players to excel in the league. Like Tyrell is 175lbs now and that's after +15lbs of strength training. How much more do you think his frame has?

Give me Malachi Flynn. Easily.

I know the counterargument will be "Stanford system," but given your description I'm shocked to learn that as a 19-year-old freshman Terry averaged 14.6/4.5/3.2 (1.8:1 ATO) on .470/.408/.891 shooting splits (60.4% at rim, 24% assisted) while you make him sound like a barely draftable second round prospect. If Jerod Haase's system is so advanced, why hasn't it been producing more phantom phenoms on par with or better than Terry?

I'm not calling him the next MAR or Steph Curry, but Cole Anthony being older with better handles yet worse outcomes on the court at all three levels means he shouldn't be drafted ahead of Terry, imo.


Stanford doesn't always get great recruits. But system or not, I'm banking on what I think is usually successful for guards, both big and sma.. I think the system hid a lot of those.

Anthony being ranked higher, regardless of system is due to more success at HS levels, playing with injury for most of the year, and more proven athleticism.

Lots of NBA teams don't run complex offensive systems, so we don't know what Terry looks like without one.

Run him off screens with a bigger playmaker to start his career. It isn't that complex.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2020 8:53 pm    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
leking006 wrote:
How about Josh Green or Daniel Oturu guys?

Josh Green - good shooter and can defend
Daniel Oturu - sort of like a poor man's AD, can defend and has a good shooting touch and mobile for a big man.


Green I have around 15.

Oturu I have around mid to late 2nd.

Green that high? Porque?
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2020 9:06 am    Post subject:

Quote:
Run him off screens with a bigger playmaker to start his career. It isn't that complex.


It's not, but I'd rather take the guy where the franchise types run the plays they want, and other guys have the skills/tools that fit seamlessly into it.

Also, LAL doesn't really set up their shooters anyway. Let the 76ers or whoever else take him. I still want Flynn, who would be a more seamless transition, and in spot situations, you can run him off screens too. Underutilized at that part, actually.

But the PnR play + defense are big separators for me, even with the age difference.
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2020 9:08 am    Post subject:

Baron Von Humongous wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
leking006 wrote:
How about Josh Green or Daniel Oturu guys?

Josh Green - good shooter and can defend
Daniel Oturu - sort of like a poor man's AD, can defend and has a good shooting touch and mobile for a big man.


Green I have around 15.

Oturu I have around mid to late 2nd.

Green that high? Porque?


Handy is staying, he's basically among the elite athletes of the group, which I think LAL needs at wing. Underrated lateral quickness, Feet, chest, hands in good position, contests perimeter shots well, gets out in transition, simplified role, a resemblance of a fair jumpshot.

Basically, I'm clear on who he is and what those athletic tools are, vs someone like RJ Hampton where he feels like a jack of all trades but caught in a big PG body.
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2020 9:09 am    Post subject:

Almost forgot to include Jalen Harris.

Really want to trade down.
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2020 2:05 pm    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
Almost forgot to include Jalen Harris.

Really want to trade down.


I'm good with Tre Jones.

Elijah Hughes?

Diane is the most intriguing prospect for me.

Sam Merrill should be drafted.

Why is Tyler Bey falling?

Vassell new elongated shooting motion. Only similar motion I can think of is Kent Bazemore when he first entered the league.
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2020 2:19 pm    Post subject:

Baron Von Humongous wrote:

What do you think of Wiseman versus 2021 C prospect Evan Mobley?


Have only taken cursory looks at the 2021 prospects. Usually wait till after the draft before starting to see what's next. Did a quick look and appears more athletic, quicker with better shooting potential than Wiseman.

Wiseman will probably have better strength and muscle mass and be a more efficient scorer 18' and in. There has been reported good reports about Wiseman recently and it will be interesting to see how he looks.

With AD, Jokic and Bam showing the importance of the big man I still believe in my premise the importance of the big man will make a come back. They will just be more athletic, skilled and versatile than the old school bigs.
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2020 2:55 pm    Post subject:

Winston, Tre Jones or Jah'mius Ramsey would be great fits.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 18, 2020 10:08 am    Post subject:

Megaton wrote:
We are the 28th pick guys, not 29.

I want Tyrell Terry. Incredible shooter and plays a style that’s perfect for today’s NBA.

Although I’m psyched regardless because of this amazing scouting department that we find another gem.


Would like this very much. But i think with his skillset very much in vogue, he should be higher up in the draft
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 18, 2020 11:34 am    Post subject:

PlantedTanks wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
Almost forgot to include Jalen Harris.

Really want to trade down.


I'm good with Tre Jones.

Elijah Hughes?

Diane is the most intriguing prospect for me.

Sam Merrill should be drafted.

Why is Tyler Bey falling?

Vassell new elongated shooting motion. Only similar motion I can think of is Kent Bazemore when he first entered the league.


Tre Jones is fine.

Elijah Hughes, I generally skip Syracuse prospects unless they're one and dones.

Lamine Diane is someone I'd definitely use a 2nd round pick for. Lots of physical tools, arguably the best motor in the draft, and I know he has touch within 14' even when he doesn't even really have a set form. Basically he needs to be trained up to get to Jerami Grant level.

Merrill, I'd use a 2nd rounder for LAL, but definitely UDFA.

Tyler Bey is dropping because the empty gym shooting looks BAD mechanically.

Vassell's shooting motion also turned for the worse.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 18, 2020 11:36 am    Post subject:

Lakerlover89 wrote:
Winston, Tre Jones or Jah'mius Ramsey would be great fits.


I basically have Ramsey in Do not draft list.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 18, 2020 11:37 am    Post subject:

Megaton wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
http://forums.lakersground.net/viewtopic.php?t=188606


I think that means we should move that thread back to this forum shouldn't we? Now that we are in the offseason and the draft is next up.

We would have a lot more people participating in that thread if it were moved to this discussion forum. There isn't much activity on that side.


Hence the included link with the OP post.

New threads means a lot of questions/opinions already get rehashed.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 18, 2020 4:38 pm    Post subject:

Undrafted :

Nate Darling
Immanuel Quickley
Jon Teske
Myles Powell
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