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Mike@LG
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2020 11:26 am    Post subject:

Baron Von Humongous wrote:
Kuminga being good would give the draft class a nice boost. Jalen Johnson's college career is likely done, Scottie Barnes' jumper is scary bad, BJ Boston can't get uncorked, Keon Johnson is awesome defense with only flashes on offense (same for Garuba), and I'm wary Jalen Green won't pass or defend.


I legit haven't caught up with the rest of the lottery into mid 1st round. Just enjoying some possible Laker picks and guys at the top, that's it.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 19, 2020 10:21 am    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
Kuminga being good would give the draft class a nice boost. Jalen Johnson's college career is likely done, Scottie Barnes' jumper is scary bad, BJ Boston can't get uncorked, Keon Johnson is awesome defense with only flashes on offense (same for Garuba), and I'm wary Jalen Green won't pass or defend.


I legit haven't caught up with the rest of the lottery into mid 1st round. Just enjoying some possible Laker picks and guys at the top, that's it.

Kuminga was a preseason top five guy for me, so I'm interested to see how he looks outside of clips. Unfortunately the NBA in all its wisdom isn't live streaming the G-League Ignite games and is only sending tape to NBA execs.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 19, 2020 10:43 am    Post subject:

Since the 2020 draft thread has fallen into a hole on the main page, my final draft class rankings for perusal/mockery five years from now:

Ball
Hayes
Edwards
Poku
Okoro
Okongwu
Vassell
P. Williams
Wiseman
Maxey
Avdija
Lewis, Jr.
Flynn
Haliburton
Anthony
Toppin
Bane
Achiuwa
Bolmaro
Nesmith

That's good enough
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 31, 2020 7:41 pm    Post subject:

I like Jalen Green alot. His athleticism is out of this world. Cade looks very solid as well.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 02, 2021 7:03 am    Post subject:

kikanga wrote:
I like Jalen Green alot. His athleticism is out of this world. Cade looks very solid as well.

Where did you watch him play?
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 02, 2021 10:58 am    Post subject:

Kai Jones is fun.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 02, 2021 11:48 am    Post subject:

Baron Von Humongous wrote:
Kai Jones is fun.


He's got all of the flashes.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2021 3:46 pm    Post subject:

https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/neemias-queta-1.html
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2021 3:45 pm    Post subject:

Wasn't this class highly touted? I just don't see it.

LaMelo > Cade

Wiseman > Mobley. Wiseman has showed he is more than an in paint C showcasing SF movement/skills.

Depth looks better last year

Kuminga has great physical gifts with offensive skills. Like a better Pat Williams.

Was pretty burnt out from the last draft, haven't watched a single college game so all opinions based on YT vids.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2021 9:35 pm    Post subject:

Oh man Cade to me is a full tier above LaMelo. I mean, I technically would have him over Luka.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=trrKJBokGgY

Mobley is a full tier for me above Wiseman.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0A-BwTAXAtA

Cade
Suggs
Mobley
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:09 pm    Post subject:

PlantedTanks wrote:
Wasn't this class highly touted? I just don't see it.

LaMelo > Cade

Wiseman > Mobley. Wiseman has showed he is more than an in paint C showcasing SF movement/skills.

Depth looks better last year

Kuminga has great physical gifts with offensive skills. Like a better Pat Williams.

Was pretty burnt out from the last draft, haven't watched a single college game so all opinions based on YT vids.

No offense PT, but these takes are insane even going solely off of YT clips.

Wiseman looks like he needs a doctor's note every time he struggles up a perimeter shot while Mobley fluidly moves into his pull-up off the dribble or catch. Wiseman is an awkward puppy to Mobley's controlled, fluid impact on both ends of the court.

I'm a huge LaMelo fan, but Cade is perfect on the basketball court. He was made in a basketball lab. I can see that perfection on YT highlights as easily as I can during full games. LaMelo has raw genius, which is tantalizing, but Cade has genius tempered by skill development and a pure basketball will. Cade Cunningham is a generational prospect like AD, Luka, and Zion.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:10 pm    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
Oh man Cade to me is a full tier above LaMelo. I mean, I technically would have him over Luka.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=trrKJBokGgY

Mobley is a full tier for me above Wiseman.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0A-BwTAXAtA

Cade
Suggs
Mobley

Mobley's easily above Suggs for me, but maybe you think Suggs has lead guard equity.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2021 11:06 pm    Post subject:

Baron Von Humongous wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
Oh man Cade to me is a full tier above LaMelo. I mean, I technically would have him over Luka.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=trrKJBokGgY

Mobley is a full tier for me above Wiseman.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0A-BwTAXAtA

Cade
Suggs
Mobley

Mobley's easily above Suggs for me, but maybe you think Suggs has lead guard equity.


I'll address Mobley first. I see the skills he possesses but he is just a good athlete at best. Not much explosiveness or quickness in his game. He is fairly high-waisted with narrow hips and no bulk in the caboose to hold his ground. He is a C only as he will not be able to guard the perimeter. He is below Jaren Jackson Jr. for me.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2021 11:08 pm    Post subject:

Baron Von Humongous wrote:
I'm a huge LaMelo fan, but Cade is perfect on the basketball court. He was made in a basketball lab. I can see that perfection on YT highlights as easily as I can during full games. LaMelo has raw genius, which is tantalizing, but Cade has genius tempered by skill development and a pure basketball will. Cade Cunningham is a generational prospect like AD, Luka, and Zion.


Cade is nowhere near these talents. Just not close.

They are or have shown the ability to be a top 5 NBA talent and dominated their college or international competition. I underrated Luka and did not see this level of greatness but he's proven he belongs being mentioned as a super star. Has Cade even shown he can dominate college level talent? Regardless of how good his team is can he impose his will on the other team? AD, Luka and Zion have shown at all levels they can.

What is Cade"s defining talent that separates him from others? He appears to have a really good all around game but nothing to define greatness. Yes only YT vids but I just haven't seen it.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2021 10:43 am    Post subject:

Baron Von Humongous wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
Oh man Cade to me is a full tier above LaMelo. I mean, I technically would have him over Luka.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=trrKJBokGgY

Mobley is a full tier for me above Wiseman.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0A-BwTAXAtA

Cade
Suggs
Mobley

Mobley's easily above Suggs for me, but maybe you think Suggs has lead guard equity.


I saw certain improvements with ball handling that I needed to see. Not as a lead guard, but someone that could possibly facilitate at a 2 or 3 spot at a high level? Absolutely.

Also, heavy confidence in his hand eye coordination to further help develop that ball handling ability.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2021 10:45 am    Post subject:

PlantedTanks wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
Oh man Cade to me is a full tier above LaMelo. I mean, I technically would have him over Luka.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=trrKJBokGgY

Mobley is a full tier for me above Wiseman.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0A-BwTAXAtA

Cade
Suggs
Mobley

Mobley's easily above Suggs for me, but maybe you think Suggs has lead guard equity.


I'll address Mobley first. I see the skills he possesses but he is just a good athlete at best. Not much explosiveness or quickness in his game. He is fairly high-waisted with narrow hips and no bulk in the caboose to hold his ground. He is a C only as he will not be able to guard the perimeter. He is below Jaren Jackson Jr. for me.


Even in the clips I left about Mobley, he shows explosiveness in powering up through defenders despite not being unearthly strong.

Nevermind the fluidity and the timing of the ball handling. There's a perception that explosiveness/quickness translates to effective NBA player, and that's not true. He's arguably one of the best athletic bigs in the draft. There's even clips on twitter about him defending the perimeter real well.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2021 10:49 am    Post subject:

PlantedTanks wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
I'm a huge LaMelo fan, but Cade is perfect on the basketball court. He was made in a basketball lab. I can see that perfection on YT highlights as easily as I can during full games. LaMelo has raw genius, which is tantalizing, but Cade has genius tempered by skill development and a pure basketball will. Cade Cunningham is a generational prospect like AD, Luka, and Zion.


Cade is nowhere near these talents. Just not close.

They are or have shown the ability to be a top 5 NBA talent and dominated their college or international competition. I underrated Luka and did not see this level of greatness but he's proven he belongs being mentioned as a super star. Has Cade even shown he can dominate college level talent? Regardless of how good his team is can he impose his will on the other team? AD, Luka and Zion have shown at all levels they can.

What is Cade"s defining talent that separates him from others? He appears to have a really good all around game but nothing to define greatness. Yes only YT vids but I just haven't seen it.


Elite hoop IQ, dominant HS team that played press defense, smart/efficient defense without being foul prone, elite vision, elite passing, VASTLY improved jumpshot, advanced (not elite) ball handling and I'd even argue ahead of Luka's level of jumpshooting by age.

Cade has to dumb down his play just so his own teammates on Ok St. can even catch the basketball, and this was ESPECIALLY evident in the first two weeks of the season. That's not going to happen NBA level. Dude already hit a game winner. Really underrated rim protector too.

I'd even argue his HS team was more talented overall than his current NCAA team, and there are other prospects on that team that are actually NBA draft worthy vs Ok St having no one.

No way should they be a 9-3 team.

If you're looking for athleticism, Suggs should be your #1.

But by far Cade and Mobley with their size/skill/high end athleticism (not the sexy kind) with upside to go are easily the Top 3 picks.

Cade should already be in the NBA and it's not even close. I don't say that lightly.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2021 12:47 pm    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
PlantedTanks wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
I'm a huge LaMelo fan, but Cade is perfect on the basketball court. He was made in a basketball lab. I can see that perfection on YT highlights as easily as I can during full games. LaMelo has raw genius, which is tantalizing, but Cade has genius tempered by skill development and a pure basketball will. Cade Cunningham is a generational prospect like AD, Luka, and Zion.


Cade is nowhere near these talents. Just not close.

They are or have shown the ability to be a top 5 NBA talent and dominated their college or international competition. I underrated Luka and did not see this level of greatness but he's proven he belongs being mentioned as a super star. Has Cade even shown he can dominate college level talent? Regardless of how good his team is can he impose his will on the other team? AD, Luka and Zion have shown at all levels they can.

What is Cade"s defining talent that separates him from others? He appears to have a really good all around game but nothing to define greatness. Yes only YT vids but I just haven't seen it.


Elite hoop IQ, dominant HS team that played press defense, smart/efficient defense without being foul prone, elite vision, elite passing, VASTLY improved jumpshot, advanced (not elite) ball handling and I'd even argue ahead of Luka's level of jumpshooting by age.

Cade has to dumb down his play just so his own teammates on Ok St. can even catch the basketball, and this was ESPECIALLY evident in the first two weeks of the season. That's not going to happen NBA level. Dude already hit a game winner. Really underrated rim protector too.

I'd even argue his HS team was more talented overall than his current NCAA team, and there are other prospects on that team that are actually NBA draft worthy vs Ok St having no one.

No way should they be a 9-3 team.

If you're looking for athleticism, Suggs should be your #1.

But by far Cade and Mobley with their size/skill/high end athleticism (not the sexy kind) with upside to go are easily the Top 3 picks.

Cade should already be in the NBA and it's not even close. I don't say that lightly.


I agree they are the top 3 picks in this upcoming draft but disagree placing Cade at the elite level such as AD. I don't believe he will develop the handles or body control of Trae's level and consequently I have not seen him get much separation from his defender on his drives to the hoop.

Also will need to see if he develops the skills to put 2-3 moves together to get his defender off balance so he can blow by them. It seems he settles for the step back jumper which I grant he is good at. Besides being the superior passer this is where LaMelo separates himself from Cade. He creates that separation to get cleaner shots off.

How much improvement can we expect from Cade? Physically he appears near his peak unlike LeMelo who can really benefit from an NBA strength program. Similarly he has mature/refined skills for a college freshman and I don't expect a Jaylen Brown/BI type leap in skill development like those 2.

Mobley still has more room for improvement both physically and skill development but nothing jumps out he will be a dominant NBA player. He is more fluid than Wiseman but a lesser athlete. His build reminds me of a better Kostas.

Suggs is a nice player. Has Jordan Clarkson type athleticism with a more complete game. He flashes PG skills but like THT I am not sure either would prosper at that position.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2021 12:56 pm    Post subject:

Quote:
I agree they are the top 3 picks in this upcoming draft but disagree placing Cade at the elite level such as AD. I don't believe he will develop the handles or body control of Trae's level and consequently I have not seen him get much separation from his defender on his drives to the hoop.


Except, he doesn't need Trae-like handles to get the separation.

Instead of that, he does the NBA thing, which are pro stops right into the defense, absorbing the contact near the hoop, and powering up.

He's had no issues with his shooting either. This is almost like saying Luka can't get separation from his defender and all he has is a step back.

Quote:

Also will need to see if he develops the skills to put 2-3 moves together to get his defender off balance so he can blow by them. It seems he settles for the step back jumper which I grant he is good at. Besides being the superior passer this is where LaMelo separates himself from Cade. He creates that separation to get cleaner shots off.


Blowing by defenders isn't required to be an elite offensive player. LBJ doesn't do it. Luka doesn't do it. Harden does it maybe 1/3rd of the time. Those 3 are the most prolific, heliocentric initiators in the NBA today. How much do they dictate offense without blow by ability? A LOT.

They rely on contact and playing at intermediate paces to get what they want.

Quote:

How much improvement can we expect from Cade? Physically he appears near his peak unlike LeMelo who can really benefit from an NBA strength program. Similarly he has mature/refined skills for a college freshman and I don't expect a Jaylen Brown/BI type leap in skill development like those 2.


Bigger, stronger Luka and better defensively. You don't think he'd be scary with that skill set at PG, let alone being able to switch to SF/PF down the line and still have strength advantages?

It's like asking for Luka to make a leap when he's a 27 8 9 player and led Dallas in offensive rating for the regular season for the entire history of the NBA. Do you really need more leaps than that?

Quote:
Mobley still has more room for improvement both physically and skill development but nothing jumps out he will be a dominant NBA player. He is more fluid than Wiseman but a lesser athlete. His build reminds me of a better Kostas.


For all of the things you see with physical dominance in Wiseman vs Mobley, Mobley reads/reacts/takes better shots/has better motor/plays more physical on the flipside of that. This isn't a JJJ thing where JJJ was known to be soft as a defensive rebounder either.

Quote:
Suggs is a nice player. Has Jordan Clarkson type athleticism with a more complete game. He flashes PG skills but like THT I am not sure either would prosper at that position.


Imagine a 19 year old that's a better athlete already, so what's his upside?

I really don't understand how you're approaching these three prospects outside of "Man, they don't look athletic enough like LeBron." None of them ever were. But skill set by age? Cade should be in the NBA. Suggs and Mobley would struggle a year and adjust quickly. That's WAY better than Melo who can't even consistently get his footwork right on jumpshots and opts for 15' floaters instead of a more dynamic shot from midrange.

Melo doesn't have a ton of shake too you know. 1 change of direction. Straight line drive. He's manipulating defenses with only that much handle and playing with motor. Nothing on Trae level there either.

Either it's watch the prospects for what they're really good at, or realign away from athleticism equalling NBA dominance. Harden, Luka, and LeBron are absolutely NBA dominant and even LeBron isn't the top tier athlete that he was in Miami.

But everyone has issues stopping all three of those guys.

Because if the NBA was based on physical dominance, Wiseman should be having a better rookie year. Frankly, so should Anthony Edwards. Yet, it's Haliburton, Maxey, LaMelo at the jump. Very good athletes. Not elite.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/draft/NBA_2020.html
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:17 pm    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
Quote:
I agree they are the top 3 picks in this upcoming draft but disagree placing Cade at the elite level such as AD. I don't believe he will develop the handles or body control of Trae's level and consequently I have not seen him get much separation from his defender on his drives to the hoop.


Except, he doesn't need Trae-like handles to get the separation.

Instead of that, he does the NBA thing, which are pro stops right into the defense, absorbing the contact near the hoop, and powering up.

He's had no issues with his shooting either. This is almost like saying Luka can't get separation from his defender and all he has is a step back.

Quote:

Also will need to see if he develops the skills to put 2-3 moves together to get his defender off balance so he can blow by them. It seems he settles for the step back jumper which I grant he is good at. Besides being the superior passer this is where LaMelo separates himself from Cade. He creates that separation to get cleaner shots off.


Blowing by defenders isn't required to be an elite offensive player. LBJ doesn't do it. Luka doesn't do it. Harden does it maybe 1/3rd of the time. Those 3 are the most prolific, heliocentric initiators in the NBA today. How much do they dictate offense without blow by ability? A LOT.

They rely on contact and playing at intermediate paces to get what they want.

Quote:

How much improvement can we expect from Cade? Physically he appears near his peak unlike LeMelo who can really benefit from an NBA strength program. Similarly he has mature/refined skills for a college freshman and I don't expect a Jaylen Brown/BI type leap in skill development like those 2.


Bigger, stronger Luka and better defensively. You don't think he'd be scary with that skill set at PG, let alone being able to switch to SF/PF down the line and still have strength advantages?

It's like asking for Luka to make a leap when he's a 27 8 9 player and led Dallas in offensive rating for the regular season for the entire history of the NBA. Do you really need more leaps than that?

Quote:
Mobley still has more room for improvement both physically and skill development but nothing jumps out he will be a dominant NBA player. He is more fluid than Wiseman but a lesser athlete. His build reminds me of a better Kostas.


For all of the things you see with physical dominance in Wiseman vs Mobley, Mobley reads/reacts/takes better shots/has better motor/plays more physical on the flipside of that. This isn't a JJJ thing where JJJ was known to be soft as a defensive rebounder either.

Quote:
Suggs is a nice player. Has Jordan Clarkson type athleticism with a more complete game. He flashes PG skills but like THT I am not sure either would prosper at that position.


Imagine a 19 year old that's a better athlete already, so what's his upside?

I really don't understand how you're approaching these three prospects outside of "Man, they don't look athletic enough like LeBron." None of them ever were. But skill set by age? Cade should be in the NBA. Suggs and Mobley would struggle a year and adjust quickly. That's WAY better than Melo who can't even consistently get his footwork right on jumpshots and opts for 15' floaters instead of a more dynamic shot from midrange.

Melo doesn't have a ton of shake too you know. 1 change of direction. Straight line drive. He's manipulating defenses with only that much handle and playing with motor. Nothing on Trae level there either.

Either it's watch the prospects for what they're really good at, or realign away from athleticism equalling NBA dominance. Harden, Luka, and LeBron are absolutely NBA dominant and even LeBron isn't the top tier athlete that he was in Miami.

But everyone has issues stopping all three of those guys.

Because if the NBA was based on physical dominance, Wiseman should be having a better rookie year. Frankly, so should Anthony Edwards. Yet, it's Haliburton, Maxey, LaMelo at the jump. Very good athletes. Not elite.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/draft/NBA_2020.html


After 3 years of active discussion on NBA draft prospects between us I would hope you realize that I see a lot of what you stated here. I don't go into full details as I realize you already know these things. I hope you give me this same benefit.

As advanced as Cade's game has already developed and yes I realize how skilled he is, I disagree to being put on a level of arguably a top 5 player in the NBA. Luka is taller, thicker and probably stronger than Cade ever will be. He has those innate skills/instincts that just cannot be taught. Cade has shown some of this but not at Luka's level and not against NBA athletes. This similarly applies to Harden.

I do realize athleticism is not the end all be all but it should be a major consideration when evaluating prospects. Skills can be coached up but athleticism only to a lesser extent (see BI). There is a reason those less athletic skilled college players are not in the NBA.

The one thing I notice in your evaluation and BVH's is not giving enough weight to future skill development by these prospects. I believe Wiseman has already proved this point and I foresee significant more growth in his game in the coming years.

There has only been 2 college players who I watched that I had the belief would be dominant in the NBA (Shaq and dating myself Lew Alcindor). Even as dominant as Bird was I still had some doubts.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2021 4:32 pm    Post subject:

^Honestly, I understand you see these same things, that's why I'm especially puzzled that you don't think these are elite tier prospects, especially considerably better than guys like LaMelo.

Luka is the same height, thicker because his dad has a gut and he had a reputation for being out of shape in the international level. I don't think he has Cade's 7' wingspan either, and the frame itself can handle more strength. Strength addition is just a given when it comes to the NBA level, yet we're already watching Luka go in and out of shape for 2 years straight. He's excellent when he's there, not so great when he isn't. That takes a toll on the body.

I legit don't know what NBA instincts Luka/Cade don't share. I already mentioned how he had to dumb down his play because Ok. St. couldn't handle his passing.

As for BI, I didn't even really think he increased his athleticism that much? Okay. He can be a 1-step jumper now and added some strength. He's the same relative size +10-20lbs. The difference here is skill level, not athletic level. He's not quicker, he's better off the dribble and utilizes screens constantly. He doesn't touch 11.5". He doesn't have elite burst. He always had long strides that ate up space and we know that.

Quote:
There is a reason those less athletic skilled college players are not in the NBA.


You're speaking about Cade and Mobley like they don't even meet *requisite* athletic levels to hang in the NBA, let alone be potential franchise players. This, I vehemently disagree with, especially when their games are based on skill more than athleticism and they've shown plenty of athleticism while not being elite at that.

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The one thing I notice in your evaluation and BVH's is not giving enough weight to future skill development by these prospects. I believe Wiseman has already proved this point and I foresee significant more growth in his game in the coming years.


I think this is part of the problem with the evaluation. Wiseman is a freak athlete, doesn't know what he's doing, and isn't a break even player on the floor. Even Dwight Howard at age 19 did that from the jump. Bigs nowadays have to learn to make reads, which is why I was down on Wiseman in the draft. It turns out the guys that make the reads are the best of the crop now, not the most athletic, and learning reads at the NBA level vs HS level when most of the development happens, is a lot tougher to come by.

Just because Cade is a stud, doesn't mean he can't get better, and really, the improvements he has to make are miniscule just to be a perennial All Star type. He's elite size by position. Athleticism doesn't slow him down. His own team does.

Mobley? Man, I really thought you'd think the world of him. Maybe it's because USC's system is terrible, but he's flashed all of the things that I think you'd like out of a big AND makes guard/wing reads too.

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There has only been 2 college players who I watched that I had the belief would be dominant in the NBA (Shaq and dating myself Lew Alcindor). Even as dominant as Bird was I still had some doubts.


Yeah, I think that's part of the problem. That'd be like waiting on NCAA physical development out of Cade/Mobley for 3-4 years instead of a freshman from the jump.

Cade is the closest you can get to watching Luka at the NCAA level.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sEnlq-ZTlLI

dude shined over Tyrese Haliburton for Team USA U19, and Haliburton looked unworldly there too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSRTCldsP0U

You know how I emphasize midseason improvement? The weaknesses listed in the above link, he's already worked on from the past season, and now he's a 38% arc shooter, 81%FT shooter (up 6%), and the degree of physicality with angles towards the hoop is transformed. He's not taking the shots in the video anymore. He bulldozes into contact.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2021 6:40 pm    Post subject:

^Final thoughts.

I was not referring to Cade, Mobley or the other top prospects when I stated (There is a reason those less athletic skilled college players are not in the NBA). This is just to emphasize athleticism does matter but if I had to choose I would favor skill over athleticism but there is also the factor of being able to execute in high pressure situations. In essence impose your will on your opponent. This is where Lebron, Luka, Giannis and few others excel over their peers and where someone as talented as PG is has so far failed. Cade has shown flashes in this respect but not dominating as I expected he would.

Wiseman vs Mobley

What I see in Wiseman is a high level of athleticism, flashes of high skill level and a great physical profile. Mobley is highly skilled, a fluid moving athlete, impact height and length and a bit high wasted. It is tough to choose between the two. At this time that "freakish" athleticism shown by Wiseman tips the scale in his favor. In the future I can see Mobley having more impact as he adds more on ball skills to his game.

Cade

As I mentioned I can see the high level of skill he has in his game. Also has a very good but not great physical/athletic profile. When I look at a generational talent I ask how long before I see another player like him. When I watch players like Lebron, Luka, Giannis, Kobe, Magic, Bird, Shaq, Kareem, MJ and a few others I realize not for a long time. These are special talents yet in different forms. Cade does not fit this profile for me. LaMelo is already a good facsimile of him in many ways. You may not agree but that is what I see.

Suggs

When I compared his athletic profile to JC it was meant as a compliment. JC is one of the better athletes for a SG and I believe the same for Suggs. A lot of shake and bake in their game with quickness and verticality. As to their on court game Suggs is head and shoulders above JC. Just not sure he fits as a PG.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2021 1:01 pm    Post subject:

Mentioned Kessler Edwards last year and appears to have improved this season.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7lr2fAtl4qg
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2021 10:09 am    Post subject:

Quote:
What I see in Wiseman is a high level of athleticism, flashes of high skill level and a great physical profile. Mobley is highly skilled, a fluid moving athlete, impact height and length and a bit high wasted. It is tough to choose between the two. At this time that "freakish" athleticism shown by Wiseman tips the scale in his favor. In the future I can see Mobley having more impact as he adds more on ball skills to his game.


And this is where you and I differ. There are freakish athletes in the NBA that don't know what they're doing and behind on the IQ curve, so it limits their upside. We've been seeing this out of Giannis for 3 years now. Andrew Wiggins his entire career.

On the flipside, the most dominant offensive players, including bigs, aren't freak athletes. They are the most skilled. Luka. Jokic. Harden. Even Steph. Even Tatum. This is a philosophy thing.

Zion isn't just Zion because he's a freak athlete. It's because he has elite touch/court vision/and some actual guard skill set to go with it. Otherwise, he'd just be another Malik Rose, just hyper explosive. But a hyper explosive Malik Rose, isn't a dominant player.

Quote:
When I look at a generational talent I ask how long before I see another player like him.


I disagree that the timetable should ever matter. Skill is skill is skill.

Quote:
As to their on court game Suggs is head and shoulders above JC. Just not sure he fits as a PG.


I agree he's not a PG. I never thought of him as one. But at least there is something that he reveals athletically when it comes to hand eye coordination, general athleticism, and high IQ understanding of how to optimize playmaking as a tertiary playmaker.

To me, that's a huge deal.
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