Joined: 02 May 2005 Posts: 90307 Location: Formerly Known As 24
Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2021 11:37 am Post subject:
kikanga wrote:
Omar Little wrote:
I’m confident there are deals to be made with him, but the big problem is anything that’s going to either hurt his standing in his state or lose him the leverage he has. Things like DC statehood.
I hope you are right. I just remember the crap Blue Dog Democrats pulled during the ACA negotiations. And it left a bad taste in my mouth.
Don’t get me wrong, he’s going to potentially hold up a lot of stuff we could do otherwise. _________________ “We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel
2 - Presumptive pardons (for crimes not charged) have been issued, but there's a school of thought that they're unconstitutional and may not stand if challenged in court.
Not only that, I'm wondering about descriptive pardons as opposed to named pardons. A pardon for "Rudy Giuliani" is one thing. A pardon for "anyone who participated in the Jan 6, 2021 U.S. Capitol insurrection" might not be kosher.
I’m confident there are deals to be made with him, but the big problem is anything that’s going to either hurt his standing in his state or lose him the leverage he has. Things like DC statehood.
I hope you are right. I just remember the crap Blue Dog Democrats pulled during the ACA negotiations. And it left a bad taste in my mouth.
Don’t get me wrong, he’s going to potentially hold up a lot of stuff we could do otherwise.
Do West Virginians care about the filibuster? Manchin could become the second most powerful person in D.C. instead of the eleventh most conservative vote on watered down legislation if he just embraces the pork. _________________ Under New Management
Joined: 10 Dec 2006 Posts: 52657 Location: Making a safety stop at 15 feet.
Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2021 1:03 pm Post subject:
kikanga wrote:
Ya'll should be worried about Joe Manchin if passing as many things as possible is the goal.
Who says we aren't? I'm concerned about anyone who could gum up the works. Commenting specifically on one thing AOC (or anyone else does) doesn't mean others aren't also a concern. _________________ You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
2 - Presumptive pardons (for crimes not charged) have been issued, but there's a school of thought that they're unconstitutional and may not stand if challenged in court.
Not only that, I'm wondering about descriptive pardons as opposed to named pardons. A pardon for "Rudy Giuliani" is one thing. A pardon for "anyone who participated in the Jan 6, 2021 U.S. Capitol insurrection" might not be kosher.
Where do you draw the line on Preemptive pardons? Could someone pardon someone for all murders he might commit. How all robberies? How about all embezzlements? All rapes? Could someone be pardoned for any one specific crime, planned but not executed? Then there is something akin to this situation where a crime was committed but not yet charged. How about a crime was committed and not charged, but other crimes were charged? Lastly, is the Nixon pardon.
I say all are unconstitutional _________________ "A metronome keeps time by using a Ringo"
Joined: 10 Dec 2006 Posts: 52657 Location: Making a safety stop at 15 feet.
Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2021 1:14 pm Post subject:
ribeye wrote:
LarryCoon wrote:
Dr. Laker wrote:
2 - Presumptive pardons (for crimes not charged) have been issued, but there's a school of thought that they're unconstitutional and may not stand if challenged in court.
Not only that, I'm wondering about descriptive pardons as opposed to named pardons. A pardon for "Rudy Giuliani" is one thing. A pardon for "anyone who participated in the Jan 6, 2021 U.S. Capitol insurrection" might not be kosher.
Where do you draw the line on Preemptive pardons? Could someone pardon someone for all murders he might commit. How all robberies? How about all embezzlements? All rapes? Could someone be pardoned for any one specific crime, planned but not executed? Then there is something akin to this situation where a crime was committed but not yet charged. How about a crime was committed and not charged, but other crimes were charged? Lastly, is the Nixon pardon.
I say all are unconstitutional
I'd have to agree, because a pre-pardon assumes facts not in evidence. _________________ You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
We can always get more funding at another time. Folks wanted $2k with the last one. That at least makes that part whole.
Now, let's figure out what we can do these next few months. Probably need more funding, but let's not muddy the water eh?
You get one shot at a specific type (such as spending) of reconciliation bill per year. They could do some kind of compromise for a smaller bill and then pass a reconciliation bill later, to get more stuff the Republicans don't want, which would be akin to the sneaky (bleep) Mitch pulled . . . but as we all know, what goes around . . . .
The problem with approach: Money to the states to expedite the vaccination rollout would be delayed since the Republicans are against this. This should be a priority and needs to be done yesterday. Until it is done, it should be sold to the general public over and over and over and over. No Democrat should speak about anything, anywhere, without bringing up the need for this vaccination funding to the states. _________________ "A metronome keeps time by using a Ringo"
Gee . . . I wonder what that hand gesture they are making means?
One of the idiots is wearing a tac vest. Smh.
Fckn hillbillies. Guaranteed they drink Busch light and have a broken down pickup in their front yard. No one saw this coming huh? This was an inside job through and through.
HEINEKIN?!1 F THAT SHT! PAAABST! BLUE RIBBOON!1...
Gee . . . I wonder what that hand gesture they are making means?
One of the idiots is wearing a tac vest. Smh.
Fckn hillbillies. Guaranteed they drink Busch light and have a broken down pickup in their front yard. No one saw this coming huh? This was an inside job through and through.
HEINEKIN?!1 F THAT SHT! PAAABST! BLUE RIBBOON!1...
Joined: 17 Nov 2007 Posts: 67719 Location: In a world where admitting to not knowing something is considered a great way to learn.
Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2021 1:58 pm Post subject:
This is an old article that has merit. Trump is already showing signs of worry as his businesses are losing money and investors are leaving him. His financial woes are enough to cause him to double his Prozac intake.
SIDE NOTE: Our country is on full alert. Never before have I seen such. As Nancy Pelosi said Trump is a CLEAR AND PRESENT DANGER. _________________ Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.
This is an old article that has merit. Trump is already showing signs of worry as his businesses are losing money and investors are leaving him. His financial woes are enough to cause him to double his Prozac intake.
Joined: 02 May 2005 Posts: 90307 Location: Formerly Known As 24
Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2021 2:48 pm Post subject:
From what I’ve heard and read from constitutional scholars, the president’s pardon power is pretty broad and unrestrained other than a few main areas that are explicit or implicit:
Has to be crimes against the United States, thus only federal offenses.
Cannot be for future offenses
Cannot pardon self
Cannot pardon as part of a criminal scheme (this is where several trump pardons may be in jeopardy)
Beyond that, the ability to pardon for offenses charged or uncharged is not really prohibited by anything in the constitution. Pardoning someone for all past offenses does not violate any particular part of the constitution. There is no requirement of specificity. _________________ “We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel
Joined: 10 Dec 2006 Posts: 52657 Location: Making a safety stop at 15 feet.
Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2021 2:55 pm Post subject:
LarryCoon wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:
I'd have to agree, because a pre-pardon assumes facts not in evidence.
The real answer to all these questions is, "we don't know." Until they are ripe, and litigated, they remain in the gray area.
Yep. The SCOTUS has a long and busy road ahead. _________________ You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Some of their recent rulings on subpoenas and financial documents indicate that even the conservatives at the Supreme Court don't believe he's above the law, which means that they will eventually rule a self-pardon unconstitutional. That's probably one of the reasons he's freaking out. He was probably told by his lawyers that a self-pardon won't ultimately help him, and that's not even counting his problems in the state of New York. _________________ ¡Hala Madrid!
Joined: 23 Jun 2005 Posts: 6054 Location: My own little piece of reality
Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2021 3:51 pm Post subject:
Quote:
Trump has requested a large sendoff to be planned for the morning of Jan. 20, sources said, after he choppers via Marine One to Joint Base Andrews, where he is expected to give remarks to supporters and departing members of his administration.
Sources add that Trump has requested his departure ceremony to have a "military-like feel," although details are not finalized.
He hopes to depart to the blare of a military band, with a red carpet and military honors, according to sources briefed on the plans. Even some sort of military flyover has been suggested, they said.
Maybe a bomb could "accidentally" fall out during the fly-over. Leave office with a real bang. _________________ “There is always light if only we're brave enough to see it, if only we're brave enough to be it.” --Amanda Gorman
He's the only type of Democrat who could win West Virginia. Republican-lite.
We're gonna have to bribe the crap out of his state to get anything done the next 2 years. West Virginia is gonna look like the Jetson's universe by the time it's 2022.
I’m confident there are deals to be made with him, but the big problem is anything that’s going to either hurt his standing in his state or lose him the leverage he has. Things like DC statehood.
Good points but the Dems need to stick it to Manchin and anyone else who opposes D.C. statehood- Yes, it would net the dems two more senators but after the chaos of the 6th, it is painfully obvious to me DC needs to have its own National Guard, and representation. _________________ Creatures crawl in search of blood, To terrorize y'alls neighborhood.
Gee . . . I wonder what that hand gesture they are making means?
One of the idiots is wearing a tac vest. Smh.
Fckn hillbillies. Guaranteed they drink Busch light and have a broken down pickup in their front yard. No one saw this coming huh? This was an inside job through and through.
HEINEKIN?!1 F THAT SHT! PAAABST! BLUE RIBBOON!1...
Thanks for the info . . . but regardless of the timing and context, she's still posing with people who are making the white power gesture. _________________ You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum
