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LakerJam
Franchise Player
Joined: 02 Aug 2002
Posts: 18410
Location: Sherman Oaks, CA
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 Posted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 5:15 pm Post subject: |
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| golakersgo121 wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | Luke wrote: |
Give me Pippen and Rodman and some smart shooters ( Harper, Kerr) and I'll give you a contender built around Kobe.
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Can't do it without that intimidating big man, can you? That is where Bynum's value exceeds that of Gasol. |
 Rodman is INTIMIDATING BIG MAN?  |
Rodman was absolutely an intimidating presence down low on defense. I think you're showing your young age. |
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Jeffs
Retired Number
Joined: 17 Aug 2006
Posts: 25274
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| Posted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 6:21 pm Post subject: |
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| KobeDunk wrote: | | angel wrote: | | Bynum is more athletic than Tim Duncan. He's also taller. After his progress this season, he may become a monster next season. |
I dont know I really like Bynum but c'mon fellas, Duncan may be the best big man, low post player of this generation. Maybe we're getting a bit carried away with what Bynum is....  |
You're just not understanding. Athleticism is not what makes a player. It helps, of course, but it isn't the only thing you look at. Duncan is NOT very athletic. I mean, he is athletic, but compared to guys like Howard and Garnett? Not even close.
Then look at Stromile Swift. He's a godly athlete, but he isn't even a consistent rotation player on whatever team he joins.
Look at Kareem Abdul-Jabbar. He was athletic, sure, but he didn't rely on his athleticism to be effective, especially later on in his career.
Bynum is no Howard. He's no Shaq. However, he can still be a dominant player, both offensive and defensively, as he continues to improve. Personally, I'll take soft hands and finesse over athleticism anyday.
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Jeffs
I feel like I just watched someone TRULY give 100%. Not the BS I'm-gonna-give-a-110%-just-like-everyone-else-says platitudes, but someone that went until he just....broke. - GT |
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LakersRGolden
Star Player
Joined: 13 Jan 2002
Posts: 7924
Location: Lake Forest
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| Posted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 6:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Jeffs wrote: | | KobeDunk wrote: | | angel wrote: | | Bynum is more athletic than Tim Duncan. He's also taller. After his progress this season, he may become a monster next season. |
I dont know I really like Bynum but c'mon fellas, Duncan may be the best big man, low post player of this generation. Maybe we're getting a bit carried away with what Bynum is.... |
You're just not understanding. Athleticism is not what makes a player. It helps, of course, but it isn't the only thing you look at. Duncan is NOT very athletic. I mean, he is athletic, but compared to guys like Howard and Garnett? Not even close.
Then look at Stromile Swift. He's a godly athlete, but he isn't even a consistent rotation player on whatever team he joins.
Look at Kareem Abdul-Jabbar. He was athletic, sure, but he didn't rely on his athleticism to be effective, especially later on in his career.
Bynum is no Howard. He's no Shaq. However, he can still be a dominant player, both offensive and defensively, as he continues to improve. Personally, I'll take soft hands and finesse over athleticism anyday. |
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golakersgo121
Franchise Player
Joined: 21 Sep 2006
Posts: 11717
Location: 8 miles from Staples Center
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| Posted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 7:22 pm Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | golakersgo121 wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | Luke wrote: |
Give me Pippen and Rodman and some smart shooters ( Harper, Kerr) and I'll give you a contender built around Kobe.
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Can't do it without that intimidating big man, can you? That is where Bynum's value exceeds that of Gasol. |
Rodman is INTIMIDATING BIG MAN? |
He was one of the better interior intimidators of the time. If you scored on him, you worked your butt of doing so. Not to mention the rebounding. |
I disagree. I do not recall a guard pulling out of the paint when they see "intimidator" Rodman in the paint. Rodman was a very good defender, excellent in one-on-one defense and positioning under the basket. His "help defense" was limited to taking a charge. I am not even mentioning "intimidation" he was putting into the hearts of opposing players offensively. Shaq was intimidating big man. Kareem, Wilt, Rassell. KG and TD are in this generation (arguably). To call Rodman an "intimidating big man" is a stretch. |
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golakersgo121
Franchise Player
Joined: 21 Sep 2006
Posts: 11717
Location: 8 miles from Staples Center
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| Posted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 7:26 pm Post subject: |
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| LakerJam wrote: | | golakersgo121 wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | Luke wrote: |
Give me Pippen and Rodman and some smart shooters ( Harper, Kerr) and I'll give you a contender built around Kobe.
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Can't do it without that intimidating big man, can you? That is where Bynum's value exceeds that of Gasol. |
Rodman is INTIMIDATING BIG MAN? |
Rodman was absolutely an intimidating presence down low on defense. I think you're showing your young age. |
Well, I am older than Rodman is So, I think, you are showing YOUR young age by making incorrect assumptions 
Ben Wallace is more intimidating big man than Rodman was. And I wouldn't call him "intimidating big man" without adding "defensively"... |
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venturalakersfan
Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001
Posts: 144474
Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 10:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Jeffs wrote: |
I know you love Shaq to death, VLF, but he didn't win (bleep) by himself. |
Great insight. Show me one player in the league who won (bleep) by himself. One of the most idiotic statements in team sports.
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RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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venturalakersfan
Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001
Posts: 144474
Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 10:12 pm Post subject: |
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| eniq 0x00 wrote: | | If only Odom would become like Pippen, it wouldn't be a question if we'd win a title, but when. |
Don't hold your breath on that one.
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RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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wolfpaclaker
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Joined: 29 May 2002
Posts: 58344
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| Posted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 10:25 pm Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | eniq 0x00 wrote: | | If only Odom would become like Pippen, it wouldn't be a question if we'd win a title, but when. |
Don't hold your breath on that one. |
I wouldn't hold my breath on Kobe getting treated like Jordan by the refs and playing with the same effeciency (50-52% FG's) either.
In that regard .. Wade is closer.
So again, this Kobe/Odom duo absolutely needs a 2-way big. Even the Bulls never won without a defensive bigman and that was withstanding the other factors I have already mentioned in this thread. |
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Jeffs
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Joined: 17 Aug 2006
Posts: 25274
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| Posted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 11:16 pm Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | Jeffs wrote: |
I know you love Shaq to death, VLF, but he didn't win (bleep) by himself. |
Great insight. Show me one player in the league who won (bleep) by himself. One of the most idiotic statements in team sports. |
Once again, quote taken completely out of the context of the discussion taking place. You seem to do that quite often. Some might think that doing so might be idiotic as well, no?
The argument was made that Shaq won two years after leaving Kobe, and that Kobe had not won anything since then. My argument is that the comparison is completely unfair, as you have much more talent on one team than the other.
People argue as if Shaq wins championships just by being there, regardless of who is on his team. My argument is that he is constanty surrounded by great talent. He has always had a young Top 5 guard with him. It isn't as if he was just stuck on a team like the Knicks and went to the finals. If you stick Kobe on a team with a top 5 center and solid role players (especially in the LEast), I'm sure he'll win you a title, too.
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Jeffs
I feel like I just watched someone TRULY give 100%. Not the BS I'm-gonna-give-a-110%-just-like-everyone-else-says platitudes, but someone that went until he just....broke. - GT |
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wolfpaclaker
Retired Number
Joined: 29 May 2002
Posts: 58344
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| Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 8:33 am Post subject: |
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You can't dismiss that, Jeffs.
Fine ignore Shaq.
How about Timmy D? Does he have a Wade on his team? Does he have great guards on his team? Tony Parker wouldn't be an All-Star on any other team minus one with a bigman like that who allows the team reach contender status.
The reason the Spurs have won 3 championships and are an annual contender is their core consists of an All-Star 2-way big.
Basketballs roots are enriched with that bigman value. Look up history of drafts or championships and you'll see one common theme. It is dominated by elite bigs at the top.
Fine we hate Shaq so we can't be honest about him as an impact player but how about Duncan? Even lesser bigs like Jermaine O'Neal have their teams in the playoffs yearly.
If you have a very good big and a very good guard .. the greater impact will be of the big. Guards can dominate on O, bigs can dominate at both ends. |
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venturalakersfan
Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001
Posts: 144474
Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 12:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Jeffs wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | Jeffs wrote: |
I know you love Shaq to death, VLF, but he didn't win (bleep) by himself. |
Great insight. Show me one player in the league who won (bleep) by himself. One of the most idiotic statements in team sports. |
Once again, quote taken completely out of the context of the discussion taking place. You seem to do that quite often. Some might think that doing so might be idiotic as well, no?
The argument was made that Shaq won two years after leaving Kobe, and that Kobe had not won anything since then. My argument is that the comparison is completely unfair, as you have much more talent on one team than the other.
People argue as if Shaq wins championships just by being there, regardless of who is on his team. My argument is that he is constanty surrounded by great talent. He has always had a young Top 5 guard with him. It isn't as if he was just stuck on a team like the Knicks and went to the finals. If you stick Kobe on a team with a top 5 center and solid role players (especially in the LEast), I'm sure he'll win you a title, too. |
That pretty much agrees with what I said, that it takes a team to win a title. And it also agrees with the original opinion that it is easier to build a winner arounnd a big man than a perimeter player. Someone said that Shaq couldn't have won without Kobe, and my example of dealing Kobe for Kidd and Marion (which was discussed) would have had the Lakers winning titles, even without Kobe. As for trading Shaq, as Wolf mentioned there is TD, but he is the only player I could see us trading Shaq for and having that player and Kobe win titles. But again, it is the big man, not the perimeter player.
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RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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tampamike
Sixth Man
Joined: 22 Jan 2007
Posts: 83
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| Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 8:15 pm Post subject: |
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We could definitely use a Big like Gasol.....
That would take away any excuses Kobe could ever come up with as to why he didn't win a ring w/o shaq. If we gave up Kwame and Bynum to get Gasol, our team would be just as, if not more talented then Miami was last year when they won it all. To me, the potential of Bynum is tempting, but i like to go with the sure thing. Gasol's production is what we dream that Bynum's could be one day, and with Gasol, we compete for a title starting now. As the old proverb says, "a bird in the hand is worth more then two in the bush"
DO IT MITCH! |
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datniggbstyle
Star Player
Joined: 11 Apr 2005
Posts: 1465
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| Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 8:31 pm Post subject: |
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Id trade Odom for Gasol. He is better option in terms of team defense at the 4 spot and a legitimate 20 point scorer that doesnt need to create off the dribble.
Id trade Lamar Odom, Chris mihm and Brian Cook to the Grizzlies for Pau Gasol, Stromile Swift and Damon Stoudamire. We would be better off.
Bynum/Kwame/Turiaf
Gasol/Radmonivic/Swift
Luke Walton/Maurice Evans
Kobe Bryant/Sasha Vujacic
Smush Parker/Damon Stoudamire/Jordan Farmar
Target an athlete at the wing position in the draft or free agency and we are ready to compete on an elite level. |
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tampamike
Sixth Man
Joined: 22 Jan 2007
Posts: 83
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| Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2007 7:54 am Post subject: |
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| LETS GO MITCH! |
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Klassix
Star Player
Joined: 12 Jun 2005
Posts: 1994
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| Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2007 9:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Worthy42 wrote: | | Gotta love a soft player that lacks leadership skills. |
like odom? |
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21_Blessings
Star Player
Joined: 13 Dec 2004
Posts: 6369
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| Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2007 6:10 am Post subject: |
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I had dream last night where Jerry West traded Gasol to he Lakers for peanuts (read: Lamar Odom), then the next season Mitch wasn't extended and the Logo came back home to LA where the Lakers won another 3 straight.
Hopefully this prophecy comes to pass. |
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vanexelent
Retired Number
Joined: 17 May 2005
Posts: 30081
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| Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2007 8:09 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | I had dream last night where Jerry West traded Gasol to he Lakers for peanuts |
He got "shelled" on that trade then. |
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Dr. Funkbot
Star Player
Joined: 24 Sep 2001
Posts: 8188
Location: Eagle Rock
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| Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2007 9:25 am Post subject: |
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| RetroNikes wrote: | | The Grizzlies will trade Bynum + fillers for Gasol, but its just that the Lakers dont want to trade Bynum. |
Good for them, no WAY we should trade Drew now. Drew is ALREADY a better defender/shotblocker than Pau and he is just 19.
I am sorry you do not give up a young skilled 2 way center for a one way PF.
I would give up LO for Gasol because they could play together, Pau at PF and Drew at C, but the Grizz don't want all that salary. Sorry then, no deal.
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