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Dr. Laker
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 Posted: Sun Jan 24, 2021 11:17 pm Post subject: |
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| FernieBee wrote: | | Quote: | Racism among white Christians is higher than among the nonreligious. That's no coincidence.
For most of American history, the light-skinned Jesus conjured up by white congregations demanded the preservation of inequality as part of the divine order.
July 28, 2020, 12:15 AM UTC
By Robert P. Jones, author of "White Too Long: The Legacy of White Supremacy in American Christianity"
. . .
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more at:
NBC News |
I read Jones' other book, "The End of White Christian America" a few years ago. He hits hard and backs it up with irrefutable data.
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eddiejonze
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| Posted: Sun Jan 24, 2021 11:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Halflife wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: | | FernieBee wrote: | | Omar Little wrote: | | He’s just trying to get some both sides-ism going. |
Both sides sometimes suck, but the GOP side is riddled with racists and hypocrites...who like to thump the Bible and shoot non-whites.
I'll stick to voting for centrist and left-of-center Demz.
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The difference is how greatly the difference is in how they do so. Dems may do some unpopular and aggressive things, but they never do so out of malicious intent to harm American citizens. Which is where Halflife's "both sides" argument is total horse (bleep). Dems would never "push" things to the extent of blatantly engaging in sedition and attempting a coup. |
I agree demz aren’t malicious but being inept can do as much harm. My hope is that there are some young indys/moderate conservatives out there who worship the planet and country. There are some dems I like. Katie porter, yang, Kamala, Pete. I think we are 4yrsaway from being in a nice progressive place with people who understand the 21st century. |
Recalls are 18th century, Tammany hall type stuff.
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tlim
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| Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2021 1:15 am Post subject: |
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| Halflife wrote: |
I agree demz aren’t malicious but being inept can do as much harm.
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I'll disagree that they are inept. The Demz are sucker punched time and time again by the folks like McConnell, thinking he'll play nice THIS time. He's played brutal hardball, and the Demz have been welted pretty badly.
He gets giddy with excitement and laughter while the rest of the US suffers.
This time, the Demz have to use the Senate well, the yank the filibuster. Why? The Demz got railroaded anyways, like the 2017 tax plan that sidestepped it and did the stupid in order to pass it, and even then, the numbers were fudged. Even before the pandemic, we were getting structural deficit of nearly $1T, and that was during a full employment time.
So this time, just toss the filibuster and fix the taxes. Tax the investment income closer to normal income levels, if not the same. Tax the wealthy on a higher schedule more akin to 2000, before the Bush tax cuts.
Anyway, enough griping. |
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non-player zealot
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| Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2021 2:05 am Post subject: |
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| eddiejonze wrote: |
Recalls are 18th century, Tammany hall type stuff. |
Whoopsie-daisy!...
That great film was on yesterday, watched part of it. I can never turn past that flick, love it. Love DDL.
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ribeye
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| Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2021 6:45 am Post subject: |
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| jodeke wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: | | DancingBarry wrote: | | I’ll say it again, I think Donald Trump ultimately will be the best thing to happen to the Democrats in a long time. |
The question is, was the cost worth it? |
The cost is yet to be determined. It looks like it's going to be high.
However, "every cloud." Flaws in our system have been uncovered. There's much shoring up to do. Blockades to keeping what Trump did from happening again must be explored.
I think we'll come out the other side stronger. |
And we truly know what we're up against, who know who and what they are, and that is good, but knowing this, and seeing 70M care so little for the truth, the rule of law, and society's norms and mores, is beyond discouraging--regardless the party or parties they might choose.
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ribeye
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| Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2021 7:16 am Post subject: |
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| tlim wrote: | | Halflife wrote: |
I agree demz aren’t malicious but being inept can do as much harm.
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I'll disagree that they are inept. The Demz are sucker punched time and time again by the folks like McConnell, thinking he'll play nice THIS time. He's played brutal hardball, and the Demz have been welted pretty badly.
He gets giddy with excitement and laughter while the rest of the US suffers.
This time, the Demz have to use the Senate well, the yank the filibuster. Why? The Demz got railroaded anyways, like the 2017 tax plan that sidestepped it and did the stupid in order to pass it, and even then, the numbers were fudged. Even before the pandemic, we were getting structural deficit of nearly $1T, and that was during a full employment time.
So this time, just toss the filibuster and fix the taxes. Tax the investment income closer to normal income levels, if not the same. Tax the wealthy on a higher schedule more akin to 2000, before the Bush tax cuts.
Anyway, enough griping. |
They are tying to be smart and if they break the filibuster, it is for a very popular bill, such as the Covid bill, but Mitch is using trying to force them to use it for a procedural move, just for setting the basic rules for a 50/50 Senate (as I understand it, the Senate committees, with Republican leadership, have not changed since the election), and we don't know if the Dems can pull the 50 votes. It seems to me that this BS would push Manchin and any others hesitant to break the filibuster, to just say, OK, we'll play ball your way. If the Dems must break the filibuster just to set the basic rules, rather to use the method used previously with equal numbers of each party in the committees and with committee heads shared by both parties, that Mitch rejects, then blow-up the filibuster, set the rules, and give all advantage to Democrats.
Now if the Dems are pushed to break the filibuster, they had better bring in DC to become the 51st state, and look at Puerto Rico as well, for the obvious reasons, but also, it is the right thing to do. Still, there is a reason that Mitch is fighting so hard to maintain the filibuster, and he must believe it will work against Republicans--in both the short and long run.
As for taxes, ALL income should be taxed at the same rate, even inheritance, though with some caveats such as an inflation factor for Capital Gains, and with the inheritance tax exception, but much less than the ~$11.5M that exists today.
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kikanga
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| Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2021 8:10 am Post subject: |
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| Halflife wrote: |
No. I’m just saying that the laws have been pushed. Both sides means there are power hungry people on both sides. You think if a Bloomberg type guy ever got elected he wouldn’t push the boundaries? Obviously in different ways than dump but nonetheless. |
I'm REALLY struggling to imagine a lawless Democratic President anywhere close to Trump. Bloomberg types won't make it through the primary.
If anything, I worry about the opposite with Dems. Like a Dem President refusing to push against norms and decorum hard enough to produce an important positive change for the country.
Generally speaking, I think the Democratic party tries to maintain power by playing it safe, pragmatic, and striving for decency.
And generally speaking, I think the Republican party tries to maintain power by propaganda, stripping individuals of their voting rights, and pushing the boundaries of legality, morality, and ethics.
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jodeke
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| Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2021 8:23 am Post subject: |
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| kikanga wrote: | | Halflife wrote: |
No. I’m just saying that the laws have been pushed. Both sides means there are power hungry people on both sides. You think if a Bloomberg type guy ever got elected he wouldn’t push the boundaries? Obviously in different ways than dump but nonetheless. |
I'm REALLY struggling to imagine a lawless Democratic President anywhere close to Trump. Bloomberg types won't make it through the primary.
If anything, I worry about the opposite with Dems. Like a Dem President refusing to push against norms and decorum hard enough to produce an important positive change for the country.
Generally speaking, I think the Democratic party tries to maintain power by playing it safe, pragmatic, and striving for decency.
And generally speaking, I think the Republican party tries to maintain power by propaganda, stripping individuals of their voting rights, and pushing the boundaries of legality, morality, and ethics. |
Good Cop, Bad Cop.
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2021 8:37 am Post subject: |
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| kikanga wrote: | | Halflife wrote: |
No. I’m just saying that the laws have been pushed. Both sides means there are power hungry people on both sides. You think if a Bloomberg type guy ever got elected he wouldn’t push the boundaries? Obviously in different ways than dump but nonetheless. |
I'm REALLY struggling to imagine a lawless Democratic President anywhere close to Trump. Bloomberg types won't make it through the primary.
If anything, I worry about the opposite with Dems. Like a Dem President refusing to push against norms and decorum hard enough to produce an important positive change for the country.
Generally speaking, I think the Democratic party tries to maintain power by playing it safe, pragmatic, and striving for decency.
And generally speaking, I think the Republican party tries to maintain power by propaganda, stripping individuals of their voting rights, and pushing the boundaries of legality, morality, and ethics. |
Exactly.
There's no comparison between the GOP and Dems that reduces to "the same" when it comes to how they do things and ethics.
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FernieBee
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| Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2021 8:51 am Post subject: |
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Voting GOP means you don't want non-whites to be as free as whites, poor as free as non-poor, women as free as men, LGBTQIA+ as free as "straight"...
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FernieBee
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| Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2021 8:54 am Post subject: |
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...non-Christians as free as Christians...
etc.
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jodeke
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| Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2021 9:00 am Post subject: |
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| ribeye wrote: | | jodeke wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: | | DancingBarry wrote: | | I’ll say it again, I think Donald Trump ultimately will be the best thing to happen to the Democrats in a long time. |
The question is, was the cost worth it? |
The cost is yet to be determined. It looks like it's going to be high.
However, "every cloud." Flaws in our system have been uncovered. There's much shoring up to do. Blockades to keeping what Trump did from happening again must be explored.
I think we'll come out the other side stronger. |
And we truly know what we're up against, who know who and what they are, and that is good, but knowing this, and seeing 70M care so little for the truth, the rule of law, and society's norms and mores, is beyond discouraging--regardless the party or parties they might choose. |
Those 70m unveiled just how racist the country is. I knew racism existed. I was more disheartened than surprised by the voluminous number. I believe we can confront the Trumpsters and win, confronting racism is a greater and more difficult problem. It's a more than 200 year old social enemy. You can make laws, can you change minds?
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America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. |
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ribeye
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non-player zealot
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| Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2021 9:59 am Post subject: |
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| kikanga wrote: | | Halflife wrote: |
No. I’m just saying that the laws have been pushed. Both sides means there are power hungry people on both sides. You think if a Bloomberg type guy ever got elected he wouldn’t push the boundaries? Obviously in different ways than dump but nonetheless. |
I'm REALLY struggling to imagine a lawless Democratic President anywhere close to Trump. Bloomberg types won't make it through the primary.
If anything, I worry about the opposite with Dems. Like a Dem President refusing to push against norms and decorum hard enough to produce an important positive change for the country.
Generally speaking, I think the Democratic party tries to maintain power by playing it safe, pragmatic, and striving for decency.
And generally speaking, I think the Republican party tries to maintain power by propaganda, stripping individuals of their voting rights, and pushing the boundaries of legality, morality, and ethics. |
So you're saying both sides try to maintain power, thus proving that both sides do the same stuff. Case closed.
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non-player zealot
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| Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2021 10:03 am Post subject: |
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| DaMuleRules wrote: | | kikanga wrote: | | Halflife wrote: |
No. I’m just saying that the laws have been pushed. Both sides means there are power hungry people on both sides. You think if a Bloomberg type guy ever got elected he wouldn’t push the boundaries? Obviously in different ways than dump but nonetheless. |
I'm REALLY struggling to imagine a lawless Democratic President anywhere close to Trump. Bloomberg types won't make it through the primary.
If anything, I worry about the opposite with Dems. Like a Dem President refusing to push against norms and decorum hard enough to produce an important positive change for the country.
Generally speaking, I think the Democratic party tries to maintain power by playing it safe, pragmatic, and striving for decency.
And generally speaking, I think the Republican party tries to maintain power by propaganda, stripping individuals of their voting rights, and pushing the boundaries of legality, morality, and ethics. |
Exactly.
There's no comparison between the GOP and Dems that reduces to "the same" when it comes to how they do things and ethics. |
When Howard Dean aggressively spoke to a crowd to pump them up in 2004 saying, "We're gonna win Minnesota!...then we're gonna win Michigan!...then we're gonna win Pennsylvania!...then we're gonna go all the way to Washington DC!...n'YEEEAAAAURRUNGHN!!1..."
Dean was inciting a mob of Dem supporters to go to DC to ransack the Capitol. Same thing, Mule. Dispute that one.
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2021 10:34 am Post subject: |
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| Halflife wrote: | | Omar Little wrote: | | jodeke wrote: | | Halflife wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: | | DancingBarry wrote: | | I’ll say it again, I think Donald Trump ultimately will be the best thing to happen to the Democrats in a long time. |
The question is, was the cost worth it? |
no. even though politics is corrupt already he pushed the limits now both parties see they can too. It will never be the same for the worse |
Our democracy has been tested in the past and solutions to fix were enacted.
I'm thinking what Trump did exposed some weaknesses in our system. Houses will circle the wagons and find ways to not let what he did become the norm. |
He’s just trying to get some both sides-ism going. |
No. I’m just saying that the laws have been pushed. Both sides means there are power hungry people on both sides. You think if a Bloomberg type guy ever got elected he wouldn’t push the boundaries? Obviously in different ways than dump but nonetheless. |
That’s exactly the point. Injecting that there when even you know there is no real equivalence (democrats like republicans might line their own pockets or help their friends and donors, but they won’t enact policies specifically to harm people and deny them rights and tear down institutions and try to seize power against the will of the people) is exactly both sides-ism. It’s meant to minimize the one by comparing it to the other. It’s what happens when one is on the side where there aren’t any moral or logical defenses one can offer. So one offers whataboutism to muddy the water, or just to dig. Either way it’s not really edifying the conversation, so I’d say its half-life has been achieved...
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2021 10:40 am Post subject: |
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| DaMuleRules wrote: | | kikanga wrote: | | Halflife wrote: |
No. I’m just saying that the laws have been pushed. Both sides means there are power hungry people on both sides. You think if a Bloomberg type guy ever got elected he wouldn’t push the boundaries? Obviously in different ways than dump but nonetheless. |
I'm REALLY struggling to imagine a lawless Democratic President anywhere close to Trump. Bloomberg types won't make it through the primary.
If anything, I worry about the opposite with Dems. Like a Dem President refusing to push against norms and decorum hard enough to produce an important positive change for the country.
Generally speaking, I think the Democratic party tries to maintain power by playing it safe, pragmatic, and striving for decency.
And generally speaking, I think the Republican party tries to maintain power by propaganda, stripping individuals of their voting rights, and pushing the boundaries of legality, morality, and ethics. |
Exactly.
There's no comparison between the GOP and Dems that reduces to "the same" when it comes to how they do things and ethics. |
Here is a good example: the ACLU defended the right (successfully, in court) of the KKK to “adopt” a highway, while the Klan has actively attempted to murder members of the ACLU.
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Jordan-esque
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| Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2021 10:45 am Post subject: |
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https://twitter.com/hillreporter/status/1353457805370433539?s=21
| Quote: | Former Trump Lawyer, Michael Cohen, Says Trump May Have Issued Secret Pardons to Himself and His Children
“ “I had put out a tweet talking about how Trump did not pardon himself or he did not pardon his children or Rudy Giuliani, and after a while, of course, knowing Donald Trump for well over a decade — almost a decade and a half as I do — I started thinking to myself it doesn’t really make sense because it’s not like Donald Trump, so what am I missing?”
“What are we missing as Americans? And I kind of think I figured it out. I think Donald Trump actually has given himself the pardon. I think he also has pocket pardons for his children and for Rudy [Giuliani] and it’s already stashed somewhere that, if and when they do get indicted and that there’s a criminal conviction, federal criminal conviction brought against him, he already has the pardons in hand.”
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Baron Von Humongous
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| Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2021 10:50 am Post subject: |
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Lebron should retire and run for the 2022 Ohio Senate seat.
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jodeke
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| Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2021 10:57 am Post subject: |
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| Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | Lebron should retire and run for the 2022 Ohio Senate seat. |
He won't have time to govern. He'll be too busy with Hollywood.
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America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. |
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Halflife
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| Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2021 11:29 am Post subject: |
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| Gavin lifting stay at home orders for restaurants. desperately needed but i am curious about the science behind it and his plan. |
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Halflife
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| Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2021 11:30 am Post subject: |
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| Jordan-esque wrote: | https://twitter.com/hillreporter/status/1353457805370433539?s=21
| Quote: | Former Trump Lawyer, Michael Cohen, Says Trump May Have Issued Secret Pardons to Himself and His Children
“ “I had put out a tweet talking about how Trump did not pardon himself or he did not pardon his children or Rudy Giuliani, and after a while, of course, knowing Donald Trump for well over a decade — almost a decade and a half as I do — I started thinking to myself it doesn’t really make sense because it’s not like Donald Trump, so what am I missing?”
“What are we missing as Americans? And I kind of think I figured it out. I think Donald Trump actually has given himself the pardon. I think he also has pocket pardons for his children and for Rudy [Giuliani] and it’s already stashed somewhere that, if and when they do get indicted and that there’s a criminal conviction, federal criminal conviction brought against him, he already has the pardons in hand.”
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apparently the pardons he has already issued are full of holes. |
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2021 11:32 am Post subject: |
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I don’t get why we are still arguing about lifting stuff prematurely because businesses are suffering with people (in general, not specific to anyone here right now) who were the problem by effectively forestalling and sabotaging a wide and deep shutdown and mask and testing protocol. Restaurants want to blame someone? Blame the people who are trying to get into indoor seating right now. This whole issue is a product of frat boy libertarianism.
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FernieBee
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| Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2021 11:39 am Post subject: |
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| Omar Little wrote: | | frat boy libertarianism |
aka blowhards
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2021 11:40 am Post subject: |
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| FernieBee wrote: | | Omar Little wrote: | | frat boy libertarianism. |
aka blowhards |
Aka (mostly white) American people can’t be told to do or not do anything.
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