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wolfpaclaker
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 Posted: Tue Feb 02, 2021 8:09 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | That 2nd unit needs to start working on its PnR action. We have 2 bigs capable of PnR action in AD/Trezz, but we seem to run very stagnant sets.
With all its talent, this team is utterly dependent on LBJ to set the table all the time. |
Yeah I noted in DBs thread. I wanted 3 things run more often.
AD-Dennis screen-roll or screen-pop.
Bron-Dennis screen-roll or screen-pop.
Bron post ups with 4 three point shooters spot up (looking to cut when someone leaves to double).
The thing with Trez, he has to be the roll man as his spacing without Bron out there to draw attention becomes an issues. These are the 2nd unit lineups with less star talent, so defenses are less willing to leave their man to help. That is why I think to operate a higher level 2nd unit Dennis-AD 2 man game, we need AD to be at the 5, not Trez.
The worst is when they just dribble around for 16 seconds and the last few seconds give it to AD to make a move, from a spot where he is not in a scoring position. |
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BandwagonLBJhopper
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Joined: 07 Feb 2020
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| Posted: Tue Feb 02, 2021 8:12 am Post subject: |
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| 2019 wrote: | | Seems like Wes has been officially replaced by THT. Save him for specific defensive assignments only. Burt all that speaks to our depth. Dude almost broke the 3 pointers in a game for us just a few weeks ago. |
Yes this is interesting to me because I do think we could use Matthews shooting, or the "rep" of his shooting because teams do honor him whether he is hot or cold. He also is a physical defender which we could use.
But it's tough because THT is just...better. Like he is better at creating his shot, much better passer, he has also shown great defensive potential, and while streaky he has also shown an ability to make shots. He just doesn't have the gravity Matthews does yet and he seems hesitant to pull the trigger on threes unless he is wide open.
I'm fine with Vogel going the THT route but I do think there is a use for Matthews, particularly against teams with bigger wings or when we are building a brick house from the 3pt line - could be worth giving him some mins. |
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wolfpaclaker
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| Posted: Tue Feb 02, 2021 8:18 am Post subject: |
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^
IMO, Wes has more value around AD-Bron than THT, and it will come into play in the playoffs. Ditto for Kieff. I can actually see us run starting lineups or 2nd half lineups to start like Kieff-AD-Wesley-KCP-Bron at some point. A lot of potent 3 point shooting and interchangeable size on D. It will come into use in the playoffs.
However for bench/2nd units around 1 superstar, we need more ballhandling and creating, which is what THT brings. |
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King Randle
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| Posted: Tue Feb 02, 2021 8:22 am Post subject: |
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| wolfpaclaker wrote: | ^
IMO, Wes has more value around AD-Bron than THT, and it will come into play in the playoffs. Ditto for Kieff. I can actually see us run starting lineups or 2nd half lineups to start like Kieff-AD-Wesley-KCP-Bron at some point. A lot of potent 3 point shooting and interchangeable size on D. It will come into use in the playoffs.
However for bench/2nd units around 1 superstar, we need more ballhandling and creating, which is what THT brings. |
You're undervaluing Schroder's defense and getting to the rim ability...much more valuable than anything Wes brings. Everyone thought last year Green would come around playoff time...sadly mistaken. |
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wolfpaclaker
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| Posted: Tue Feb 02, 2021 8:26 am Post subject: |
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| King Randle wrote: | | wolfpaclaker wrote: | ^
IMO, Wes has more value around AD-Bron than THT, and it will come into play in the playoffs. Ditto for Kieff. I can actually see us run starting lineups or 2nd half lineups to start like Kieff-AD-Wesley-KCP-Bron at some point. A lot of potent 3 point shooting and interchangeable size on D. It will come into use in the playoffs.
However for bench/2nd units around 1 superstar, we need more ballhandling and creating, which is what THT brings. |
You're undervaluing Schroder's defense and getting to the rim ability...much more valuable than anything Wes brings. Everyone thought last year Green would come around playoff time...sadly mistaken. |
You are probably right, but this would require Dennis to play like that and not shoot poorly from 3. Playoffs is different animal. Teams will scout each play and see what spot on the floor they can leave open anytime Bron/AD have a touch in a strong spot. If anyone on the floor next to them is not a good floor spacer or cutter, that is where the help is coming from.
Not saying that is what will happen, but I could see it happen in some situations if we lose a playoff game and our starters are not shooting well around AD/Bron. I will be shocked if Kieff/Wesley value is not much more in the playoffs than now. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Tue Feb 02, 2021 8:32 am Post subject: |
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| wolfpaclaker wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | That 2nd unit needs to start working on its PnR action. We have 2 bigs capable of PnR action in AD/Trezz, but we seem to run very stagnant sets.
With all its talent, this team is utterly dependent on LBJ to set the table all the time. |
Yeah I noted in DBs thread. I wanted 3 things run more often.
AD-Dennis screen-roll or screen-pop.
Bron-Dennis screen-roll or screen-pop.
Bron post ups with 4 three point shooters spot up (looking to cut when someone leaves to double).
The thing with Trez, he has to be the roll man as his spacing without Bron out there to draw attention becomes an issues. These are the 2nd unit lineups with less star talent, so defenses are less willing to leave their man to help. That is why I think to operate a higher level 2nd unit Dennis-AD 2 man game, we need AD to be at the 5, not Trez.
The worst is when they just dribble around for 16 seconds and the last few seconds give it to AD to make a move, from a spot where he is not in a scoring position. |
The nice feature about Dennis is he has a legit mid-range jumper. So off of a PnR, he can slash to the rim or pull for a jumper. I also would like more DS/LBJ PnR as that would put a point on LBJ which is game over.
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joeblow
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| Posted: Tue Feb 02, 2021 8:37 am Post subject: |
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One way the coach has been finding extra minutes for our deep back court roster is running more and more three guard line ups (i.e., AC, THT and KCP). This has some obvious benefits, but there are costs as well due to putting out a smaller team when our strength last year was, in part, being big.
In fact, it was a three guard line up that spelled our doom in that last play of the Philly game. I was surprised that Vogel put Caruso, Dennis and KCP out there after the timeout for the final *defensive* play of the game to protect a one point lead with seconds left.
Philly is a big team, so it played right into their hands for Tobias to hunt out a smaller player in AC in a switch to shoot over for the win. Before it played out I complained to the wife that Morris, Kuzma, or even Montrez should've taken the place of one of the guards.
With that said, I expect the coach to keep testing out three guard line ups to see if overall it clicks in various ways by the time the playoffs start. He just needs to be more careful against big teams when he does it. |
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King Randle
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| Posted: Tue Feb 02, 2021 8:47 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | wolfpaclaker wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | That 2nd unit needs to start working on its PnR action. We have 2 bigs capable of PnR action in AD/Trezz, but we seem to run very stagnant sets.
With all its talent, this team is utterly dependent on LBJ to set the table all the time. |
Yeah I noted in DBs thread. I wanted 3 things run more often.
AD-Dennis screen-roll or screen-pop.
Bron-Dennis screen-roll or screen-pop.
Bron post ups with 4 three point shooters spot up (looking to cut when someone leaves to double).
The thing with Trez, he has to be the roll man as his spacing without Bron out there to draw attention becomes an issues. These are the 2nd unit lineups with less star talent, so defenses are less willing to leave their man to help. That is why I think to operate a higher level 2nd unit Dennis-AD 2 man game, we need AD to be at the 5, not Trez.
The worst is when they just dribble around for 16 seconds and the last few seconds give it to AD to make a move, from a spot where he is not in a scoring position. |
The nice feature about Dennis is he has a legit mid-range jumper. So off of a PnR, he can slash to the rim or pull for a jumper. I also would like more DS/LBJ PnR as that would put a point on LBJ which is game over. |
No question...doesn't necessarily have to be a 3. Not only that but a lot of the times lately...teams have switched on PNR's and Shroder finds himself one on one with the center...and takes him to the rim. It's exactly what Miami did in the finals last year with Bam....we would switch the PNR and Dwight found himself guarding Bam...Lakers then had to sit Dwight. |
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LakerDYnasty72
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defense
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| Posted: Wed Feb 03, 2021 12:18 pm Post subject: |
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| I don't know about THT, but Caruso has certainly earned more minutes. From last season to this one, Caruso consistently plays winning basketball. |
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leking006
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| Posted: Wed Feb 03, 2021 11:49 pm Post subject: |
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| I think these 2 guys should be the main focus of their free agency signing next year. if they need to choose between DS and these 2, I think the Lakers should prioritize AC and THT and let go of DS. |
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blackmamba08
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| Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2021 12:22 am Post subject: |
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| leking006 wrote: | | I think these 2 guys should be the main focus of their free agency signing next year. if they need to choose between DS and these 2, I think the Lakers should prioritize AC and THT and let go of DS. |
Absolutely.
To have these two over DS its no brainer. DS is nice piece to have but he is not that good. Caruso can start the game alongside KCP,LBJ,AD and some center easily.
If I can choose I would rather keep Trezz and let DS go somewhere.
Our future teams need to be rounded around AD LBJ, Caruso, THT and KCP. Everyone else are expendable.
THT will develop much more and I expect in one moment to be much better that DS. If you can lock him down you have to do it. |
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leking006
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| Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2021 1:27 am Post subject: |
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| blackmamba08 wrote: | | leking006 wrote: | | I think these 2 guys should be the main focus of their free agency signing next year. if they need to choose between DS and these 2, I think the Lakers should prioritize AC and THT and let go of DS. |
Absolutely.
To have these two over DS its no brainer. DS is nice piece to have but he is not that good. Caruso can start the game alongside KCP,LBJ,AD and some center easily.
If I can choose I would rather keep Trezz and let DS go somewhere.
Our future teams need to be rounded around AD LBJ, Caruso, THT and KCP. Everyone else are expendable.
THT will develop much more and I expect in one moment to be much better that DS. If you can lock him down you have to do it. |
Bigger, Tougher, better playmaker and has better defensive potential. The only advantage of DS as of now is his experience. But I think after this season, that will not be a problem for THT.
Vogel just need to try THT in that closing lineup sometimes. He needs to have the experience in those kind of games for them to gauge if he can really replace DS in that situation.
As a matter of fact, if you put THT in bottom team right now, he can already be a go to guy there. It will be disappointing if other team will grab him in free agency.
As for AC, if you put him in a contender with good system like the bucks or nuggets he will definitely an upgrade and will give them a better chance to win a ring. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2021 9:22 am Post subject: |
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| blackmamba08 wrote: | | leking006 wrote: | | I think these 2 guys should be the main focus of their free agency signing next year. if they need to choose between DS and these 2, I think the Lakers should prioritize AC and THT and let go of DS. |
Absolutely.
To have these two over DS its no brainer. DS is nice piece to have but he is not that good. Caruso can start the game alongside KCP,LBJ,AD and some center easily.
If I can choose I would rather keep Trezz and let DS go somewhere.
Our future teams need to be rounded around AD LBJ, Caruso, THT and KCP. Everyone else are expendable.
THT will develop much more and I expect in one moment to be much better that DS. If you can lock him down you have to do it. |
I don't agree with this at all, and it seems the FO doesn't either. They seem to value DS (offered him a 2 year extension already) and have kept him as a starter. I don't think AC's style of play (going balls to the wall and sometimes putting himself in dangerous situations b/c he's going all out) lend him to playing a starter's role. I think he's a very deadly weapon to bring off the bench to quell runs by the opposing bench unit.
What DS brings right now is very good POA defense, and has the ability to attack the rim when given the chance. My point of this thread was to argue for more overall minutes/role for AC/THT, not necessarily starting one at this point. Maybe down the road but not now. I think Lakers like AC/THT off the bench.
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2021 9:24 am Post subject: |
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| leking006 wrote: | | I think these 2 guys should be the main focus of their free agency signing next year. if they need to choose between DS and these 2, I think the Lakers should prioritize AC and THT and let go of DS. |
They already offered DS a 2 year extension, and are waiting for some point in Feb. when they can offer a 4 year extension. So that may not be true at all for the Lakers.
The question IMO will be if they choose to keep/sign 2 of the 3: Kuz/THT/AC.
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