Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
Posted: Fri Apr 09, 2021 10:38 am Post subject:
PlantedTanks wrote:
Couple things.
The high floor and the position he plays is why I have high regards for him. If the 3pt shot translates even with some regression that is a winning player for me.
I had questions on Hart as he won over his defender by using his size and strength to gain favorable court position where he could execute. I was not sure that would translate against NBA athletes but he has proven it does. He did tweak his shot mechanics before his rookie year to help with his outside shooting which he mentioned in a workout video.
Yeah, that's what I don't understand. You're betting on the shot going through when there's no other indicator over the course of his NCAA career.
As for Hart, I'm surprised you questioned his strength, and at least over a 4 year NCAA term, he was a mid 70s FT shooter and varied between 36-45% 3pt shooting on varying volumes. TS was off the chart. Basically, he's the shooting upside of Mitchell because he emulated those percentages in his 2nd year, but did it off the bench.
Josh changed his shot at the NBA level to account for distance, yes. but there were indicators that it was going to hold given his shooting over the prior 3 years at Villanova and sustained/increased FT% that Mitchell does not have.
Even then, I don't think the shot changed helped much. The volume went up, but his percentages dropped to league average.
His 3pt volume now over 100 possessions is nearly the same, just 7% lower now.
Even with better NCAA indicators, Hart is an average league arc shooter.
Jared Butler on the other hand, 1 year younger than Mitchell, 3 years experience, proven shooting, better handle. _________________ Resident Car Nut.
Looking over Davion's career he made steady progression in most categories except those tied to FT's. Pts, FGA, 3PTA, 3PT%, AST all upticked which you see happen with most college players. The 3pt% increase was somewhat drastic this year and some regression is expected but all indicators (form, touch, deep shots) all point to translating to the NBA. Also what is favorable is his low percentage of unassisted 2pt shots which shows he can get his own and his high % of shots at the rim.
Mind you I am high on Jared Butler and have been for awhile. Either or for the Lakers is fine. I thought you were higher on Davion than Butler from past comments.
As for Josh I did not question his strength but how it would translate to NBA strength. I believe he is special in this regard as I remember a comment from David West about some little guy moving him around (paraphrasing) and that it was Hart.
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
Posted: Fri Apr 09, 2021 1:40 pm Post subject:
Honestly, my board is scattered. I'm not as high on Mitchell/Butler as I am for Vrenz Bleijenburgh. That's the guy I want LAL to get. Mitchell/Butler are fine. I'm hoping for a higher upside/BPA type.
Like I said, Chris Duarte is the bar, but he's having an outlier shooting year too across the board.
Oddly, for LAL, even with his age, I'd likely want Duarte over both. Small guards need to have uniquely special skills to hang. Wing sized guys of relatively equal skill/advanced numbers are highly productive/valuable next level. _________________ Resident Car Nut.
Internationals are harder for me to evaluate but I don't let shooting highlight vids influence my judgment as too many seem to not translate to the NBA. I have gravitated to those that also demonstrate passing/playmaking acumen as that not only translates but also indicates to me they have the court sense that all good players need to have.
That is the influence yourself and BVH has imparted on me these past 3 years.
I like Vrenz profile. He seems to have the complete tool set or close to it. Physical build, athleticism, shot mechanics and the passing acumen.
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
Posted: Fri Apr 09, 2021 5:20 pm Post subject:
Vrenz is easier for me because I see him as less of a liabilitty defensively and has at least, a clue of passing acumen, where Giddey strays heavily on the passing/court vision (it's like having a radar on at all times, not just situational), but then there's the athleticism difference, length, physicality in the paint, and it's a heavy sway for me.
It's weird that Giddey may have more mass by height, but Vrenz is every bit as physical as BI when he attacks the paint. Shoots like LaMelo, but at least it's a comfortable shot. _________________ Resident Car Nut.
Don't see much mention of David Johnson or David Duke Jr. in mocks. I have Johnson over Duke. I like their athletic profiles, size and combo guard skills. Not sure either could be point guards but I believe in them more than Ayo in this regards.
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
Posted: Sun Apr 11, 2021 12:51 pm Post subject:
PlantedTanks wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
I think I want LAL to trade #24 for:
76ers 28 + 45
Nets 27 + 42 or 49
Pels 35 + 41
OKC 31 + 37
I was thinking almost this exact same thing.
I will need to check if there may be better options that might arise if the Lakers fall another 2-3 slots making their pick more attractive.
I don't think there's too much of a talent difference between the teens to late 20s, so may as well grab an extra pick, or if the salary cap is an issue, maybe go for 2 2nd rounders. Though, I didn't research the contract difference between the late 1st vs 2 2nds.
I LOVE Vrenz. He may be the one guy that sways it for me, but there's a possibility he slips down.
Personally, I'd just take the pick and get a UDFA. I think there's guys better qualified for 2-way contracts than some current Lakers. _________________ Resident Car Nut.
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
Posted: Sun Apr 11, 2021 1:19 pm Post subject:
PlantedTanks wrote:
^Agree about the 2-way. If the combine is held this year and Vrenz participates I can see him move up the draft.
I hope there's a combine. I don't think he would succeed there, especially with the athletic tests. He's just a basketball player.
If there are combine games, I'll likely have to look elsewhere for a prospect, unfortunately. Hopefully it means someone else I really like drops. _________________ Resident Car Nut.
Usman Garuba - just 19 but got an NBA athletes body and athleticism. Looks his listed height of 6'8" but appears to have a nice wingspan. If he was 2-3" taller he would challenge for top 5. Moves well and always hustling on both ends. His jump shot looks clean out to the 3pt line. Did not see ball skills as he rarely handles the ball looking for his shot. He can play PF. Would be hard to not take him at the Lakers pick if he was there.
Nikola Mirotic - If he returns to the NBA he looks to fit best as a small ball center. HIs body looks big, not fat but strong. Still can shoot from distance and they do play him in the post.
Inconsistent but considering his age (just turned 19 last month) he essentially would be a young college freshman so I would expect improvement these next few years especially once in the league.
His defense is already playable against NBA competition and is the primary reason I assume he currently is getting significant minutes playing against grown men. Guarded bigs (Mirotic) and even picked up Calathes.
It is telling he is getting minutes for a very good team. I was looking for Bolmaro but he did not play.
Last edited by PlantedTanks on Mon Apr 12, 2021 7:11 pm; edited 1 time in total
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2021 7:39 am Post subject:
I'd agree on shooting improvement if he had any indicators of touch around the basket. I don't see it.
It took guys like Blake Griffin years. I just don't expect any real upside in that department, but it doesn't mean he can't be an awesome player without it. Just a more limited one. _________________ Resident Car Nut.
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2021 3:23 pm Post subject:
PlantedTanks wrote:
Is Tre Mann this years SGA or SGA lite?
Lite. SGA had a knack of shot diversity around the hoop, peculiar footwork/flexibility, more feel. I haven't seen anything about Tre Mann that really stands out as unique skill or talent, and I admit SGA didn't stick out to me before, but at least now, I understand why. _________________ Resident Car Nut.
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
Posted: Wed Apr 14, 2021 2:38 pm Post subject:
44TheLogo wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
Jaden Springer being mocked in the 20s based on front office intel has me
I would plotz if he ended up with the Lakers. These pro scouts can be nuts, man.
100%. Crazy right?
just watched highlights of springer. am i watching coby white?
Possibly in terms of him being a 2 playing 1. Not the footwork, and hopefully the next NBA team that picks him up doesn't default to his scoring ability.
Coby played in a terrible offense and found ways to be a playmaker within it. But CHI picked him up, let him go score because they had terrible coaches, and they started winning. He hasn't broken from that archetype since. _________________ Resident Car Nut.
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