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Mike@LG
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 Posted: Thu Jun 17, 2021 8:58 am Post subject: |
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| SGV-Laker fan wrote: | | Halflife wrote: | | zion on the knicks would be awesome. probably mean JR would be moved. |
i can definitely see another Eddy Curry experiment if Zion goes to NYK. he will get fat and washed up just like Curry. |
Now I absolutely know, that you're unaware of how rough Eddy Curry's upbringing was.
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RI Laker
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Joined: 27 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Thu Jun 17, 2021 9:08 am Post subject: |
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| Mike@LG wrote: | | JUST-MING wrote: | If Luka and Giannis both ask out, who do we target?  .
I’m tempted to say Luka, since that’s been our winning formula, star guard (Logo, Magic, Kobe) and center (Wilt, Kareem, Shaq). I also like the idea of Giannis and Anthony. Trade ideas anyone? |
Luka by far.
They're not even in the same tier to me.
It's really simple. One guy can create his own shots, comfortably within his bag, against the most elite perimeter defenders in Kawhi and PG.
The other can't, on scrub defenders. |
Luka is the best in the league. You can throw the kitchen sink at him and he can't be stopped. Incredible range, high IQ, shoots with both hands, patient, and smooth (doesn't panic and doesn't give up his dribble in bad spots). Its incredible he is so young. |
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lakersfan8
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Joined: 27 May 2014
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| Posted: Thu Jun 17, 2021 9:22 am Post subject: |
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| roger_federer wrote: | | lakersfan8 wrote: | | A trade involves Simmons and Lillard would be beneficial to both team |
How does it help Blazers? |
A centerpiece to rebuild? |
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Luminous8
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Joined: 26 Apr 2017
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| Posted: Thu Jun 17, 2021 9:25 am Post subject: |
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| vasashi17+ wrote: | Ap-parent-ly that’s not all folks...
Family members disgruntled, player not happy with how organization treated a certain player, “admonishing” a head coach...it’s all too familiar to us, isn’t it?
| Quote: | The Pels made changes to their support staff to fit Williamson’s wishes over the offseason, and he returned in much better physical condition. But for most of this season, certain Williamson family members voiced displeasure with the organization. Among the targets of their criticism was Van Gundy, who they felt was too rigid and demanding as head coach, but also with the organization, which they claim did not live up to what they felt should be the standard for a star like Williamson. Numerous opposing league executives had heard the complaints, and they were confirmed by Pelicans officials.
When the Pels traded J.J. Redick to Dallas in March, it not only upset Redick but also is said to have irritated Williamson. Redick had asked to either be traded before the season or to stay in New Orleans all season for family reasons and proceeded to blast the organization and executive vice president of basketball operations David Griffin on his podcast after the trade. Redick was a veteran with whom Williamson had grown comfortable in their two seasons together, and the dysfunction Redick accused the Pelicans of harboring is said to have stoked some of Williamson’s own feelings with regards to the direction of the franchise.
On a late-season bus trip, Van Gundy was venting frustrations to an assistant after a loss. According to Van Gundy, someone who overheard the conversation reported back to Griffin that Van Gundy was so frustrated that he might not return. Also, leading up to the final weekend of the regular season, a meeting between Van Gundy and Griffin did not go well — with dozens of sources chatting about it after it happened.– via Shams Charania, Joe Vardon, William Guillory, The Athletic Staff @ The Athletic
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That’s funny because JJ himself said otherwise that contradicts this report. JJ said he had asked to be traded before the season because he knew he couldn’t physically do what Stan was going to require from him defensively. He said he was promised by Griffin that he would either buy him out so he could sign with a contender on the east coast getting him closer to home or he would trade him to a contender. In griffin mind, the Mavs WERE a contender. There are shades of gray I’m sure, but JJ can’t get upset because the team was able to get a second rd pick and a strong veteran presence in JJ 2.0 for him. It’s not like he’s an all star who just picks and chooses where he goes. Griff tried getting him where he wanted via trade and the teams didn’t seem to bite because JJ had for all intents and purposes gave up on the pros and was no longer the guy that could make a difference from deep.
Point being, this article FOR ME, lost all credibility when he cited that as facts when it contradicted what BOTH parties involved stated. |
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RashardA
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Joined: 09 Aug 2004
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Location: Santa Monica
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| Posted: Thu Jun 17, 2021 9:28 am Post subject: |
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The NBA is a wild place now days.
Players still on their rookie deals complaining about the pieces around them.
I mean damn, Zion's been in the league what? 2 years?
You havent given the organization a chance to build anything.
Its been TWO YEARS. 
It's comical.
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Mike@LG
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Location: Orange County, CA
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| Posted: Thu Jun 17, 2021 9:30 am Post subject: |
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| RashardA wrote: | The NBA is a wild place now days.
Players still on their rookie deals complaining about the pieces around them.
I mean damn, Zion's been in the league what? 2 years?
You havent given the organization a chance to build anything.
Its been TWO YEARS.
It's comical. |
If I were him I would do the same. They had so many years behind AD and couldn't build anything either, nevermind rebuild the decrepit Smoothie Center and use actual NBA athletic trainers, not the ones from the Saints.
Poverty franchise. I would absolutely threaten to leave if I were Zion.
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Luminous8
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| Posted: Thu Jun 17, 2021 9:31 am Post subject: |
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| Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | LGFan wrote: | | LakerSD wrote: | | Maybe instead of blaming the Lakers, the Pels should look in house and see why they can’t keep their best players happy. |
Griffin is the dumbest GM i have seen. Because he is friends with Woj he seems more interested in creating a narrative about him instead of actually making better decisions
Trading holiday for picks and taking back Bledsoe
Trading for Adams and giving him extension
hiring SVG
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Jrue wanted out so Griffin did him a solid for future draft capital.
The Adams extension and hiring SVG were braindead choices. And trading back from the #4 pick - which could've been Darius Garland or De'Andre Hunter - for Jaxson Hayes and NAW is looking pretty bad, too, though it's still early. |
I’ll give you Hunter and while garland is terrific on offense having yet another turnstile on d wouldn’t be the answer. The jury is out in NAW though I do believe he’s a future near 20ppg scorer starting or off the bench. He’s actually a pretty good defender on ball and doesn’t mind to hit the boards either.
As for Hayes I was adamant to start the year he was a TERRIBLE choice but from all star break on I’ve really changed my tune. That kid really has some high potential. He’s began to shoot from deep, his switching ability really showed and made a difference for the pels. Ultra athletic and I has terrific touch. What’s intrigued me the most is his ballhamdling which I never thought was much at all but he’s spoken about patterning himself somewhat after a guy like James Johnson who helped mentor him post trade deadline.
Time will tell on that deal, but I’m not as bummed about those draft picks as I was earlier on. Kira in the lotto last year was the pick I didn’t fully understand and still don’t. He’s a blur, decent in catch and shoot, plays good defense, but he doesn’t seem to be much of a pg at all. At least not as a rookie. |
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pjiddy
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| Posted: Thu Jun 17, 2021 9:33 am Post subject: |
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| lakersfan8 wrote: | | roger_federer wrote: | | lakersfan8 wrote: | | A trade involves Simmons and Lillard would be beneficial to both team |
How does it help Blazers? |
A centerpiece to rebuild? |
I'd be so pissed as a Blazers fan if they traded the best player in franchise history, one of the clutchest dudes in NBA history, for one of the least clutch.
I offer CJ/Simons and a pick, but i definitely don't offer Dame. Dude just put up a triple single and couldn't score in the 4th quarter. I'm trading Dame for that? Hell no. |
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Mike@LG
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| Posted: Thu Jun 17, 2021 9:34 am Post subject: |
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| pjiddy wrote: | | lakersfan8 wrote: | | roger_federer wrote: | | lakersfan8 wrote: | | A trade involves Simmons and Lillard would be beneficial to both team |
How does it help Blazers? |
A centerpiece to rebuild? |
I'd be so pissed as a Blazers fan if they traded the best player in franchise history, one of the clutchest dudes in NBA history, for one of the least clutch.
I offer CJ/Simons and a pick, but i definitely don't offer Dame. Dude just put up a triple single and couldn't score in the 4th quarter. I'm trading Dame for that? Hell no. |
And if Dame wants to leave, then what do you do?
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governator
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| Posted: Thu Jun 17, 2021 9:35 am Post subject: |
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| Mike@LG wrote: | | pjiddy wrote: | | lakersfan8 wrote: | | roger_federer wrote: | | lakersfan8 wrote: | | A trade involves Simmons and Lillard would be beneficial to both team |
How does it help Blazers? |
A centerpiece to rebuild? |
I'd be so pissed as a Blazers fan if they traded the best player in franchise history, one of the clutchest dudes in NBA history, for one of the least clutch.
I offer CJ/Simons and a pick, but i definitely don't offer Dame. Dude just put up a triple single and couldn't score in the 4th quarter. I'm trading Dame for that? Hell no. |
And if Dame wants to leave, then what do you do? |
you 'Pels AD' him |
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Mike@LG
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| Posted: Thu Jun 17, 2021 9:37 am Post subject: |
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| governator wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | | pjiddy wrote: | | lakersfan8 wrote: | | roger_federer wrote: | | lakersfan8 wrote: | | A trade involves Simmons and Lillard would be beneficial to both team |
How does it help Blazers? |
A centerpiece to rebuild? |
I'd be so pissed as a Blazers fan if they traded the best player in franchise history, one of the clutchest dudes in NBA history, for one of the least clutch.
I offer CJ/Simons and a pick, but i definitely don't offer Dame. Dude just put up a triple single and couldn't score in the 4th quarter. I'm trading Dame for that? Hell no. |
And if Dame wants to leave, then what do you do? |
you 'Pels AD' him |
Exactly. Which is why, I said earlier in the thread, trades aren't done talent for talent. They are done for team goals and player's desires.
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Luminous8
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| Posted: Thu Jun 17, 2021 9:37 am Post subject: |
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| Mike@LG wrote: | | RashardA wrote: | The NBA is a wild place now days.
Players still on their rookie deals complaining about the pieces around them.
I mean damn, Zion's been in the league what? 2 years?
You havent given the organization a chance to build anything.
Its been TWO YEARS.
It's comical. |
If I were him I would do the same. They had so many years behind AD and couldn't build anything either, nevermind rebuild the decrepit Smoothie Center and use actual NBA athletic trainers, not the ones from the Saints.
Poverty franchise. I would absolutely threaten to leave if I were Zion. |
In all fairness, those AD lead teams had some real talent. They didn’t have a guy they could count on to lead them in AD.
Boogie cousins
Niko mirotic
Ryan Anderson (prime)
Tyreke evans
Eric Gordon (should have traded him before he became a problem)
Jrue holiday
Julius randle
Those fits in some ways were questionable, but some of the blame needs to truly rest on AD for never getting those teams anywhere. Drop 59 one night then follow it up with 9 then follow that up with a 15 game stretch of not playing.
Yeah they’re a cheap franchise, but they also got miscast a team expected to do things under AD that his rigid body and beta mindset was never going to allow. |
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LakerSD
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| Posted: Thu Jun 17, 2021 9:41 am Post subject: |
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It’s a full on players league now.
Young superstars aren’t going to quietly put their Rookie CBA time in anymore. |
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pjiddy
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| Posted: Thu Jun 17, 2021 9:41 am Post subject: |
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| Mike@LG wrote: | | pjiddy wrote: | | lakersfan8 wrote: | | roger_federer wrote: | | lakersfan8 wrote: | | A trade involves Simmons and Lillard would be beneficial to both team |
How does it help Blazers? |
A centerpiece to rebuild? |
I'd be so pissed as a Blazers fan if they traded the best player in franchise history, one of the clutchest dudes in NBA history, for one of the least clutch.
I offer CJ/Simons and a pick, but i definitely don't offer Dame. Dude just put up a triple single and couldn't score in the 4th quarter. I'm trading Dame for that? Hell no. |
And if Dame wants to leave, then what do you do? |
Is he forcing his way to the Sixers? When players want to leave, they usually have a team in mind. Dame + Embiid at 50/50 to finish a season (and the odds will only go down as he gets older) might not be much better. |
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Mike@LG
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| Posted: Thu Jun 17, 2021 9:42 am Post subject: |
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It took them years just to get to Jrue. Cousins, Mirotic, Randle are guys that moved the needle, but these are Top 25-Top 50 NBA player types? DMC wasn't Sacramento version DMC either.
It takes 2 Top 10 guys, at bare minimum, and zero thought was taken into consideration for trying to get that guy, OR stacking picks to get one in the lottery OR creating a development team to build their young players, OR rebuilding the Smoothie King center, bottom to top.
No wonder why AD was injury prone. Wrong sport trainers. They didn't even invest in their own players.
So yeah, if I'm Zion, and I'm likely told that I'm the franchise player from the jump, it's all talk until they actually do it, regardless of Zion's age.
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Aeneas Hunter
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| Posted: Thu Jun 17, 2021 9:45 am Post subject: |
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| Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | RashardA wrote: | | LakerSD wrote: | | levon wrote: | | so I ask again, what's Simmons' value? |
Sixers won’t win until Simmons learns how to shoot. Playing 4 on 5 in a shooting league is tough. |
Morey will look to trade him.
He's probably kickin himself for not pulling the trigger on Harden. |
Fertitta was a petty b. |
Maybe, but I think the Rockets made the right call unless they had a plan in place to flip Simmons for assets. Simmons is not the kind of player you would want to build around. I realize that I have a lower opinion of Simmons than a lot of people, but set that aside. Even if you think Simmons is a stud, his skill set wouldn't be optimized on a rebuilding team.
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Mike@LG
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| Posted: Thu Jun 17, 2021 9:45 am Post subject: |
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| LakerSD wrote: | It’s a full on players league now.
Young superstars aren’t going to quietly put their Rookie CBA time in anymore. |
And they shouldn't. Enough high schools, tournaments, and colleges have been profiting from them as actual children.
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Aeneas Hunter
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| Posted: Thu Jun 17, 2021 9:50 am Post subject: |
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| governator wrote: | | out of New Orleans? not just the Pelicans??? what did SVG do? |
No, just the Pelicans. Someone else quoted the whole thing.
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RashardA
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| Posted: Thu Jun 17, 2021 9:53 am Post subject: |
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| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | RashardA wrote: | | LakerSD wrote: | | levon wrote: | | so I ask again, what's Simmons' value? |
Sixers won’t win until Simmons learns how to shoot. Playing 4 on 5 in a shooting league is tough. |
Morey will look to trade him.
He's probably kickin himself for not pulling the trigger on Harden. |
Fertitta was a petty b. |
Maybe, but I think the Rockets made the right call unless they had a plan in place to flip Simmons for assets. Simmons is not the kind of player you would want to build around. I realize that I have a lower opinion of Simmons than a lot of people, but set that aside. Even if you think Simmons is a stud, his skill set wouldn't be optimized on a rebuilding team. |
Simmons is definitely a cornerstone type of player, IMO.
The problem is, he doesnt fit with Embiid and he never has.
You need to surround Ben with shooters, shooters, shooters.
He needs a stretch 5 as well so the floor is spaced and he can do his thing.
Build the right team around Simmons, in the right system and he will flourish.
That said, he still needs to work on his weaknesses but if you build the right team around him, I think his strengths far outweigh his weaknesses.
They also have to find a coach who can tap into his psyche.
His struggles at the free throw line are 99% mental.
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Cutheon
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| Posted: Thu Jun 17, 2021 9:55 am Post subject: |
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| RashardA wrote: | | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | RashardA wrote: | | LakerSD wrote: | | levon wrote: | | so I ask again, what's Simmons' value? |
Sixers won’t win until Simmons learns how to shoot. Playing 4 on 5 in a shooting league is tough. |
Morey will look to trade him.
He's probably kickin himself for not pulling the trigger on Harden. |
Fertitta was a petty b. |
Maybe, but I think the Rockets made the right call unless they had a plan in place to flip Simmons for assets. Simmons is not the kind of player you would want to build around. I realize that I have a lower opinion of Simmons than a lot of people, but set that aside. Even if you think Simmons is a stud, his skill set wouldn't be optimized on a rebuilding team. |
Simmons is definitely a cornerstone type of player, IMO.
The problem is, he doesnt fit with Embiid and he never has.
You need to surround Ben with shooters, shooters, shooters.
He needs a stretch 5 as well so the floor is spaced and he can do his thing.
Build the right team around Simmons, in the right system and he will flourish.
That said, he still needs to work on his weaknesses but if you build the right team around him, I think his strengths far outweigh his weaknesses.
They also have to find a coach who can tap into his psyche.
His struggles at the free throw line are 99% mental. |
Ben Simmons is Lamar Odom with an even lower skill floor. |
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Mike@LG
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| Posted: Thu Jun 17, 2021 9:57 am Post subject: |
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It shouldn't be a hot take that Ben Simmons is really a taller Rondo, who won a championship with major PT when he was the 4th option player and not a leading points in the paint player with BOS after the All Stars left.
Ben doesn't want to be the best roll man in the league or a key integral part to a team like Draymond? That's on him.
This has always been his problem.
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KindCrippler2000
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pjiddy
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| Posted: Thu Jun 17, 2021 10:04 am Post subject: |
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Really stresses the importance of getting the right coach for your new players. Just getting a "Hard ass" that supposedly teaches discipline is not the right move. Same thing happened with Boylen in Chicago. You risk alienating your players.
I still think Griff looked smart after his trade with us (he got pretty much everything he wanted), but man, he has been taking Ls ever since. That Jrue Holiday trade looked like a fleecing but you also put Zion on the same path AD was placed on. |
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KindCrippler2000
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| Posted: Thu Jun 17, 2021 10:07 am Post subject: |
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| Mike@LG wrote: | It shouldn't be a hot take that Ben Simmons is really a taller Rondo, who won a championship with major PT when he was the 4th option player and not a leading points in the paint player with BOS after the All Stars left.
Ben doesn't want to be the best roll man in the league or a key integral part to a team like Draymond? That's on him.
This has always been his problem. |
The media is the biggest problem when it comes to Ben Simmons. They propped him up like he was the next Lebron, and Simmons bought into it, thinking he didn't have to work on his game. The tragedy of this entire situation is that he's the exact same player he was in his rookie year, plus better defensive instincts. Brett Brown was practically begging him to work on his shooting before he was canned. Crazy how someone with family ties couldn't even convince him to it. I hope he figures it out next game. If he doesn't, he'll be on another team very soon. |
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Mike@LG
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| Posted: Thu Jun 17, 2021 10:11 am Post subject: |
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| KindCrippler2000 wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | It shouldn't be a hot take that Ben Simmons is really a taller Rondo, who won a championship with major PT when he was the 4th option player and not a leading points in the paint player with BOS after the All Stars left.
Ben doesn't want to be the best roll man in the league or a key integral part to a team like Draymond? That's on him.
This has always been his problem. |
The media is the biggest problem when it comes to Ben Simmons. They propped him up like he was the next Lebron, and Simmons bought into it, thinking he didn't have to work on his game. The tragedy of this entire situation is that he's the exact same player he was in his rookie year, plus better defensive instincts. Brett Brown was practically begging him to work on his shooting before he was canned. Crazy how someone with family ties couldn't even convince him to it. I hope he figures it out next game. If he doesn't, he'll be on another team very soon. |
The media reports what they understand they're seeing and tries to get hit rate. Not their fault.
That's why I follow a ton of basketball guys that are hoop people first, media second.
But honestly, I think the signs were there since LSU, failing out the tourney, not galvanizing the team, forfeited the NIT. Like, who does that?
Fortunately now, there are more prominent leagues in AUS, Europe, and GLeague ignite so a player doesn't have to do that stuff, but man, his attitude then, reflects on his career today. He could literally be a Top 5 NBA talent, just zero drive to leap on improvements.
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