Should not insert 2 players with no defense at the same time

 
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leking006
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 21, 2021 11:35 pm    Post subject: Should not insert 2 players with no defense at the same time

I think Lakers should not insert 2 players with no defense at the same time. They cut the lead earlier because they benched ellington and monk in the 4th. Though Melo is not a good defender, DH and AD covered him.

I think they can at least insert 1 player who cant defend which they can hide or cover.

Melo-Monk-Ellington-Rondo should not be inserted at the same time. There should be at least 4 players on the floor who have decent to good defense.
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mad55557777
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 21, 2021 11:49 pm    Post subject:

So you are saying Westbrook is a good defender?

We can try to hide bad defenders by going big, melo at the 4 is by far our worst defensive lineup, and if we play that, monk and Ellington can’t be part of it
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leking006
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 21, 2021 11:55 pm    Post subject:

mad55557777 wrote:
So you are saying Westbrook is a good defender?

We can try to hide bad defenders by going big, melo at the 4 is by far our worst defensive lineup, and if we play that, monk and Ellington can’t be part of it


Westbrook is a decent defender, they defend well in the 4th vs the pistons (Russ, AB, THT, Melo, AD). Westbrook is a good defender if he focus on his man other than getting the rebound.


Last edited by leking006 on Sun Nov 21, 2021 11:59 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 21, 2021 11:57 pm    Post subject:

leking006 wrote:
mad55557777 wrote:
So you are saying Westbrook is a good defender?

We can try to hide bad defenders by going big, melo at the 4 is by far our worst defensive lineup, and if we play that, monk and Ellington can’t be part of it


Westbrook is a decent defender.


Only when he’s engaged. Otherwise he’s complete crap as he ignores his man when he doesn’t have the ball.
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mad55557777
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2021 12:14 am    Post subject:

leking006 wrote:
mad55557777 wrote:
So you are saying Westbrook is a good defender?

We can try to hide bad defenders by going big, melo at the 4 is by far our worst defensive lineup, and if we play that, monk and Ellington can’t be part of it


Westbrook is a decent defender, they defend well in the 4th vs the pistons (Russ, AB, THT, Melo, AD). Westbrook is a good defender if he focus on his man other than getting the rebound.

Agree, he sure has the physical abilities. It is hard to post him up or blow by him
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leking006
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2021 12:25 am    Post subject:

mad55557777 wrote:
So you are saying Westbrook is a good defender?

We can try to hide bad defenders by going big, melo at the 4 is by far our worst defensive lineup, and if we play that, monk and Ellington can’t be part of it


Hoping Vogel think of a way to hide them other than benching them the whole game. But if not, Vogel has no choice but to bench them or cut their minutes specially if Reaves return and Ariza is already available.

How about Nunn's defense? I have no idea how good he a defender he is.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2021 1:19 am    Post subject:

leking006 wrote:
mad55557777 wrote:
So you are saying Westbrook is a good defender?

We can try to hide bad defenders by going big, melo at the 4 is by far our worst defensive lineup, and if we play that, monk and Ellington can’t be part of it


Westbrook is a decent defender, they defend well in the 4th vs the pistons (Russ, AB, THT, Melo, AD). Westbrook is a good defender if he focus on his man other than getting the rebound.

No, he hasn't evolved to become a decent defender. Detroit has one of the worst offensive ratings in the NBA
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GOODRICH25
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2021 1:35 am    Post subject:

When we habe everyone back...

Russ/Nunn/Rondo
THT/Reaves/Monk
James/Ariza
Davis/Melo
????/Howard/Jordan

Close with Russ, THT, James, Ariza/Melo, AD

Cut Bazemore and one of Bradley or Ellington (prefer to keep Bradley), add a bigger wing who can defend, switch, run, spread the floor, for additional depth (no idea who, i hope someone is available later in the buyout market), and add a stretch big to start next to AD

We got the tools to become a good defensive team come playoff time, we just need to get healthy and start playing the right players
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Sina
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2021 2:39 am    Post subject:

I’m Melo-Monk-Ellington-Rondo, I’m seeing Vogel is training up defense of our shooters. Monk has improved in defense. He can do some playmaking now
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2021 6:05 am    Post subject:

lakersfan8 wrote:
leking006 wrote:
mad55557777 wrote:
So you are saying Westbrook is a good defender?

We can try to hide bad defenders by going big, melo at the 4 is by far our worst defensive lineup, and if we play that, monk and Ellington can’t be part of it


Westbrook is a decent defender, they defend well in the 4th vs the pistons (Russ, AB, THT, Melo, AD). Westbrook is a good defender if he focus on his man other than getting the rebound.

No, he hasn't evolved to become a decent defender. Detroit has one of the worst offensive ratings in the NBA


This. On defense Westbrook can look good on one play then look lost the very next play; huge swings just like his offense.
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LakersRGolden
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2021 12:11 pm    Post subject:

You have to have 5 players on the court. Until THT came back we didn't have 4 defenders in uniform, let alone in each lineup.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 24, 2021 2:13 pm    Post subject: Re: Should not insert 2 players with no defense at the same time

leking006 wrote:
I think Lakers should not insert 2 players with no defense at the same time. They cut the lead earlier because they benched ellington and monk in the 4th. Though Melo is not a good defender, DH and AD covered him.

I think they can at least insert 1 player who cant defend which they can hide or cover.

Melo-Monk-Ellington-Rondo should not be inserted at the same time. There should be at least 4 players on the floor who have decent to good defense.


Going to be awfully hard with a 9-guard roster and 4 non-defenders in Russ, Melo, Wayne, and Monk.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 24, 2021 3:07 pm    Post subject: Re: Should not insert 2 players with no defense at the same time

MIMLaker wrote:
leking006 wrote:
I think Lakers should not insert 2 players with no defense at the same time. They cut the lead earlier because they benched ellington and monk in the 4th. Though Melo is not a good defender, DH and AD covered him.

I think they can at least insert 1 player who cant defend which they can hide or cover.

Melo-Monk-Ellington-Rondo should not be inserted at the same time. There should be at least 4 players on the floor who have decent to good defense.


Going to be awfully hard with a 9-guard roster and 4 non-defenders in Russ, Melo, Wayne, and Monk.


And Rondo. (And right now THT is barely adequate as a wing defender)
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 24, 2021 3:24 pm    Post subject:

We need players; guards and wings, with close out speed and energy.

If you notice, in almost every game this season, the Lakers get blown out when teams shoot excessive 3 point shots against them. Sometimes, even obscure, low scoring players have tremendous 3 point shooting games when the Lakers come to town. Thats because opposing teams know we don't defend the 3 line. What further happens is that, come 2nd half, those 3 pointers don't fall at the rate they once did. But, by that time, we are so buried in the score column that it's hard to come back.

When I watch teams play the Clippers (who, ironically, are struggling almost as much as we are), I notice teams hustle to close out on their 3 point shooters. Scouting reports show that the Clips are an outside/in team, in that they set up their 3 point shooters, and then settle for a mid range cut or a roll-dunk by Zubak if the 3 point shot isn't' there. So, defending teams just switch and hustle to stop this 3 point Clipper attack, and it's working this season.

With the Lakers, they don't have the personnel or the philosophy of closing out on 3 point shooters. I guess they feel the opposing team will eventually cool off from distance. But still, they give up those 3 point shots throughout the game, so if an opposing player can stay hot, they will have that 3 point shot all night against the Lakers. Every now and then, the Lakers will hustle and defend the 3 line, but it's rare, and it doesn't last. Hence, opposing teams learn to attack the Lakers early and often from the 3 point line. The bulk of our losses come from us getting buried from 3 point distance.

Lebron and RW won't hustle and close out. AD won't either. DJ is a center, so that leave only Bradley to close out on 3 point shooters. That's not enough, and so we're sub .500 for the season.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 24, 2021 7:46 pm    Post subject:

You hear that rumbling in the distance? That was the rest of the league trembling as they saw the Lakers play with effort on the defensive end against the Indiana Pacers.
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leking006
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 24, 2021 7:51 pm    Post subject:

Well one thing that Melo-Monk-Ellington lineup can give is it will give Bron the spacing, but sacrificing their defense.

Does an Ariza-Reaves lineup can give the same spacing that Monk-Ellington can?

So what do you prefer? Ariza-Reaves or Monk-Ellington?
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leking006
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 24, 2021 7:53 pm    Post subject: Re: Should not insert 2 players with no defense at the same time

ThePageDude wrote:
MIMLaker wrote:
leking006 wrote:
I think Lakers should not insert 2 players with no defense at the same time. They cut the lead earlier because they benched ellington and monk in the 4th. Though Melo is not a good defender, DH and AD covered him.

I think they can at least insert 1 player who cant defend which they can hide or cover.

Melo-Monk-Ellington-Rondo should not be inserted at the same time. There should be at least 4 players on the floor who have decent to good defense.


Going to be awfully hard with a 9-guard roster and 4 non-defenders in Russ, Melo, Wayne, and Monk.


And Rondo. (And right now THT is barely adequate as a wing defender)


How about Nunn's defense?
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2021 6:19 pm    Post subject:

I agree with not having two flat out liabilities. Pur biggest problem is we have three 20ppg guys and haven't found the rght complements.
That's why waiver wire AB is getting run though. He's a decent defender and at 38% from outside should get more than the 3 looks he gets a game. They need to get into the offense quicker so the KCP replacement (AB? Nunn? Monk? Reaves? lesser defender Ellington?) gets more open looks.

We need the stars to have running mates they're confident in getting the ball to. Ideally Ariza gets healthy because we really miss a 2 way 20mpg forward to be one less liability. That or more consistency from THT.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2021 10:59 pm    Post subject:

When the players are not 'natural' defenders, what also helps a lot is having a floor general directing the defense. This seems what LBJ did in the last game, and to certain degree is what Marc provided last year (one of the reasons last year team's # are better with him than with other Cs). I hoped AD would pick that up but I don't see the same sense for the flow of the game in AD, at least not yet.
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