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Lakerz113
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2021 12:50 am    Post subject:

His reverse right hand layups look cool, but he literally missed a wide open reverse because he went with the right tonight.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2021 1:20 am    Post subject:

Lakerz113 wrote:
PICKnPOP wrote:
The entire time THT was injured he was working on his left. I went to a handful of games this season and every game he is there early with his trainer working on left hand finishes. Every single game. At some point he will feel confident enough to use his left during games if he keeps working on it.


Well he could only use his left while he was injured, and Im sure he’s working on it, however he needs to show it in games. Reminds me of Randle when all he had was that left and everyone knew it.


Yeah it sucks but at 21 years old we have a lot to look forward to from this kid in the future. If he isn’t shipped with Westbrook for simmons
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2021 4:35 am    Post subject:

That's the thing with our roster though. Too many inconsistent role players. Monk is a threat one game, then 4 games he's not. THT has a good two games, then he's been awful since. Ellington shoots well one game, then not for a few.

Outside of Melo on offense, and Bradley on D, we have no consistency from our role guys this year. Frank is having to rely heavily on a player the Warriors cut, and heavily on Melo to get it done, because they are consistent at what they do. Melo is always in the right spot and taking mostly the right shots at a good clip (He has his ups and downs on shooting but he is a legit threat). Bradley is always scrambling on D.

Not sure about THT. Does he shoot well? Not really. Does he create well enough you can rely on him as a creator for a playoff/championship level team? Not really. Is he KCP level on D? Again, no. So basically he's all potential and for a team that needs to win now in the expring Bron era, I think we should be very open to moving him this year to get a starting level 2 guard. It should be our priority, actually. Ariza is not the savior, either, nor will it be Nunn. Rob needs to make a move, a small scale move to give Vogel and the big 3 another defender that will fit in on offense. THT's salary and upside makes him the best asset to move, IMO.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2021 5:58 am    Post subject:

wolfpaclaker wrote:
That's the thing with our roster though. Too many inconsistent role players. Monk is a threat one game, then 4 games he's not. THT has a good two games, then he's been awful since. Ellington shoots well one game, then not for a few.

Outside of Melo on offense, and Bradley on D, we have no consistency from our role guys this year. Frank is having to rely heavily on a player the Warriors cut, and heavily on Melo to get it done, because they are consistent at what they do. Melo is always in the right spot and taking mostly the right shots at a good clip (He has his ups and downs on shooting but he is a legit threat). Bradley is always scrambling on D.

Not sure about THT. Does he shoot well? Not really. Does he create well enough you can rely on him as a creator for a playoff/championship level team? Not really. Is he KCP level on D? Again, no. So basically he's all potential and for a team that needs to win now in the expring Bron era, I think we should be very open to moving him this year to get a starting level 2 guard. It should be our priority, actually. Ariza is not the savior, either, nor will it be Nunn. Rob needs to make a move, a small scale move to give Vogel and the big 3 another defender that will fit in on offense. THT's salary and upside makes him the best asset to move, IMO.



Imo, that's extremely short-sighted. Trading THT, based solely off his bumpy start to the season, fresh off injury, is baffling to me. Based off of 5/6 games? Understandably, he's going to have up and down's, as he plays into basketball shape/rhythm. The hot start he had shouldn't be expected every night. EVERY player on this team, including LeBron/AD, have had those nights.

Also, just realistically speaking, THT is not going to net us a game changing player. The morass the Lakers are in is not going to be solved by simply shipping THT...or Westbrook...or DJ...or, anybody. There are way more issues than that. The players/coaches need to figure things out, as well as get healthy. Or, there need to be MULTIPLE changes, to the entire roster...extending to the coaching staff.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2021 6:13 am    Post subject:

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Imo, that's extremely short-sighted. Trading THT, based solely off his bumpy start to the season, fresh off injury, is baffling to me. Based off of 5/6 games? Understandably, he's going to have up and down's, as he plays into basketball shape/rhythm. The hot start he had shouldn't be expected every night. EVERY player on this team, including LeBron/AD, have had those nights.

You may be right. I may be desperate to improve the team around the big 3, but it is based on seeing how little consistency we have at the perimeter around them. Baze first tried, failed. Then THT, failed. Melo has had a few starts but his best role is off 6th man instant offense and sniper. So we don't have this KCP level starter, that can shoot 3s around the stars on offense at a respectable clip (40%) and then on defense (far more important) give a high motored effort each game. We don't have enough perimeter D.

So with Baze, Melo, THT all showing they can't be that starter, what options are we left with? Nunn? Reaves? Ariza? Those guys would not start on any other championship level team.

We need to find a starting level player. We have 3 in AD/Bron/WB. Stars. But we need at least 1 other starting level player (a core player). A guy that can be reliable on both ends, a high motor defender and someone that can knock down shots from outside. Is this THT? I don't see it. THT's best value to this year's team may be to be the leading guy off the bench, but when Nunn returns, isn't it better Nunn/Bron take turns?

I like THT, I think he has legit upside as a 2-way starter in the league.I just don't see how his talents fit in with this group for this season.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2021 8:29 am    Post subject:

activeverb wrote:
DrDent wrote:
wolfpaclaker wrote:
That’s the thing with young players - they usually thrive in losing situations with a lot of opportunities and don’t do well in catch and shoot roles or secondary attack rules.

I think THT has talent to be a solid starter in the league and a 2-way guy. Not sure his upside is worth losing a player that can get us into contention.

Trade talk will be interesting this season for the Lakers. We have a lot of needs and should be active.


Wolf - excellent point.

I'd bet dollars to donuts that if he was dealt to a lotto bound team, he would get 20+ shots a game and likely start going off with fantastic numbers. He'd have some real stinkers here and there as he learns the game and how to utilize his frame and length, but he would likely be a "one that got away" and flourished with more touches. His skill and confidence would grow, and there you have it.

With that said, I suppose I'm open to the "right deal"...open, but certainly not sold on it.


I think THT is the new Kuzman. For the next two years, I expect LG fans to say that he would be an All-Star on any other team and LGers will imagine that other teams are lusting after him and would happily trade a star to get him


Kuzma was already a near finished product coming out of college. THT is nowhere near that and has another year to go before he even reaches the same age Kuzma entered the league at.


The opinion on THT will change every 3 games.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2021 8:52 am    Post subject:

wolfpaclaker wrote:
Quote:
Imo, that's extremely short-sighted. Trading THT, based solely off his bumpy start to the season, fresh off injury, is baffling to me. Based off of 5/6 games? Understandably, he's going to have up and down's, as he plays into basketball shape/rhythm. The hot start he had shouldn't be expected every night. EVERY player on this team, including LeBron/AD, have had those nights.

You may be right. I may be desperate to improve the team around the big 3, but it is based on seeing how little consistency we have at the perimeter around them. Baze first tried, failed. Then THT, failed. Melo has had a few starts but his best role is off 6th man instant offense and sniper. So we don't have this KCP level starter, that can shoot 3s around the stars on offense at a respectable clip (40%) and then on defense (far more important) give a high motored effort each game. We don't have enough perimeter D.

So with Baze, Melo, THT all showing they can't be that starter, what options are we left with? Nunn? Reaves? Ariza? Those guys would not start on any other championship level team.

We need to find a starting level player. We have 3 in AD/Bron/WB. Stars. But we need at least 1 other starting level player (a core player). A guy that can be reliable on both ends, a high motor defender and someone that can knock down shots from outside. Is this THT? I don't see it. THT's best value to this year's team may be to be the leading guy off the bench, but when Nunn returns, isn't it better Nunn/Bron take turns?

I like THT, I think he has legit upside as a 2-way starter in the league.I just don't see how his talents fit in with this group for this season.



I understand the desperation by some, for immediate improvement. I don't think that is likely, given the Lakers contracts. And, I'm not sure how THT can be accurately analyzed, after only several, or so, games. Imo, I like a combination of THT, Nunn, and Reaves off the bench. That's youth/energy pop you need to support your veterans. Granted, those guys are going to have up/down nights, as they round into shape, and develop chemistry. But, those guys I mentioned can all handle the ball, and are at least average shooters/defenders. That should stabilize bench production...prospectively.

As the season goes on, we should get a more accurate measure of where THT is, in his development. Also, I'm just tired of trading away all our promising youth, for "right now" fits. That's just a recipe for unfun stagnation, imo.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2021 9:27 am    Post subject:

Lakerz113 wrote:
PICKnPOP wrote:
The entire time THT was injured he was working on his left. I went to a handful of games this season and every game he is there early with his trainer working on left hand finishes. Every single game. At some point he will feel confident enough to use his left during games if he keeps working on it.


Well he could only use his left while he was injured, and Im sure he’s working on it, however he needs to show it in games. Reminds me of Randle when all he had was that left and everyone knew it.

Randle’s game improved to another level as soon as he showed he could hit the 3. Driving became that much easier. Right now, players are giving the shot to THT. It has been 3 off seasons, unfortunately the shot is still not there. Good thing he is young? So maybe he can improve.
Like I said, besides being 3 years younger, he really doesn’t have any real advantages over Monk.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2021 9:45 am    Post subject:

I still have faith in THT.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2021 10:29 am    Post subject:

It also Randle changing teams two more times, and 3 years after his Lakers career to become that level.

I agree THT has high upside. He is not a typical 2nd round pick. But if you can get a starter for him now, you have to consider it, IMO.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2021 10:34 am    Post subject:

PICKnPOP wrote:
Lakerz113 wrote:
PICKnPOP wrote:
The entire time THT was injured he was working on his left. I went to a handful of games this season and every game he is there early with his trainer working on left hand finishes. Every single game. At some point he will feel confident enough to use his left during games if he keeps working on it.


Well he could only use his left while he was injured, and Im sure he’s working on it, however he needs to show it in games. Reminds me of Randle when all he had was that left and everyone knew it.


Yeah it sucks but at 21 years old we have a lot to look forward to from this kid in the future. If he isn’t shipped with Westbrook for simmons



That is today iirc? His Birthday...

Happy 21st Birthday THT 11/25/2000
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2021 12:16 pm    Post subject:

wolfpaclaker wrote:
It also Randle changing teams two more times, and 3 years after his Lakers career to become that level.

I agree THT has high upside. He is not a typical 2nd round pick. But if you can get a starter for him now, you have to consider it, IMO.


THT has potential…but if we could land an impact player that could help us this year, we’d have to consider trading him.

What is the likelihood he develops into a player that helps put us into title contention AFTER the Lebron era is over?

He’s gonna be good but it’s not like we’d be parting with a future MVP or something.

Lebron and ADs window together is closing…this may be our last chance at another title for the foreseeable future. (20th season 38 yr old Lebron won’t be a top player anymore)
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2021 12:26 pm    Post subject:

Brawn13 wrote:
wolfpaclaker wrote:
It also Randle changing teams two more times, and 3 years after his Lakers career to become that level.

I agree THT has high upside. He is not a typical 2nd round pick. But if you can get a starter for him now, you have to consider it, IMO.


THT has potential…but if we could land an impact player that could help us this year, we’d have to consider trading him.

What is the likelihood he develops into a player that helps put us into title contention AFTER the Lebron era is over?

He’s gonna be good but it’s not like we’d be parting with a future MVP or something.

Lebron and ADs window together is closing…this may be our last chance at another title for the foreseeable future. (20th season 38 yr old Lebron won’t be a top player anymore)


I do t know how why but the last sentence here made me laugh.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2021 4:23 pm    Post subject:

Brawn13 wrote:
wolfpaclaker wrote:
It also Randle changing teams two more times, and 3 years after his Lakers career to become that level.

I agree THT has high upside. He is not a typical 2nd round pick. But if you can get a starter for him now, you have to consider it, IMO.


THT has potential…but if we could land an impact player that could help us this year, we’d have to consider trading him.

What is the likelihood he develops into a player that helps put us into title contention AFTER the Lebron era is over?

He’s gonna be good but it’s not like we’d be parting with a future MVP or something.

Lebron and ADs window together is closing…this may be our last chance at another title for the foreseeable future. (20th season 38 yr old Lebron won’t be a top player anymore)

We can consider trading THT for an impact player who can help us now, but please don't trade THT for someone who is 30 or over.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2021 5:24 pm    Post subject:

slavavov wrote:
Brawn13 wrote:
wolfpaclaker wrote:
It also Randle changing teams two more times, and 3 years after his Lakers career to become that level.

I agree THT has high upside. He is not a typical 2nd round pick. But if you can get a starter for him now, you have to consider it, IMO.


THT has potential…but if we could land an impact player that could help us this year, we’d have to consider trading him.

What is the likelihood he develops into a player that helps put us into title contention AFTER the Lebron era is over?

He’s gonna be good but it’s not like we’d be parting with a future MVP or something.

Lebron and ADs window together is closing…this may be our last chance at another title for the foreseeable future. (20th season 38 yr old Lebron won’t be a top player anymore)

We can consider trading THT for an impact player who can help us now, but please don't trade THT for someone who is 30 or over.


THT for KCP, who says no?
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2021 5:29 pm    Post subject:

CandyCanes wrote:
slavavov wrote:
Brawn13 wrote:
wolfpaclaker wrote:
It also Randle changing teams two more times, and 3 years after his Lakers career to become that level.

I agree THT has high upside. He is not a typical 2nd round pick. But if you can get a starter for him now, you have to consider it, IMO.


THT has potential…but if we could land an impact player that could help us this year, we’d have to consider trading him.

What is the likelihood he develops into a player that helps put us into title contention AFTER the Lebron era is over?

He’s gonna be good but it’s not like we’d be parting with a future MVP or something.

Lebron and ADs window together is closing…this may be our last chance at another title for the foreseeable future. (20th season 38 yr old Lebron won’t be a top player anymore)

We can consider trading THT for an impact player who can help us now, but please don't trade THT for someone who is 30 or over.


THT for KCP, who says no?

I'd rather trade THT for someone who is at least 6-foot-7, since we need a KCP-type player who can play the 3 and/or the 4.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2021 6:15 pm    Post subject:

ScHoolBoy B wrote:
I still have faith in THT.


He needs to develop a left hand. I don't know if I have faith in that.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2021 5:29 am    Post subject:

The Lakers in their recent past had a player who could only drove and shot with one hand, was turnover prone, and couldn't shoot to save his life. That player averaged 24/10/6/1 and shot 41% from three en route to their first All-Star appearance three years after they let him walk for nothing.

They had another that Lakers fans had turned against for being passive early in his career. Was also trashed for being inconsistent and unwilling to shoot threes. They traded him and watched him become a 24 point scorer and All-Star the next season while shooting 39% from three on over 6 attempts per game.

If a player has natural tools and a strong work ethic, they can improve on their deficiencies. People need to remember that THT just turned 21 yesterday. He has natural tools and a good work ethic. Give him time.

That having been said, no player is untradeable. The problem with trading THT though would be that it would be very difficult to find another young player with his upside who could be had for multiple years. Sure you can bring in a guy like Monk or Nunn on a one year deal. But you won't have their bird rights for a couple of seasons and asking them to stay on board for the minimum or mini-MLE until they can be paid is not realistic. THT may be their best trade asset, but once he's gone the coffers are empty in regards to young talent.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2021 5:52 am    Post subject:

Outspoken wrote:
ScHoolBoy B wrote:
I still have faith in THT.


He needs to develop a left hand. I don't know if I have faith in that.


His left hand wouldn't matter that much if his three point shot was developed or he was getting setup for cuts to the basket instead of being asked to create all of them off the dribble. That will still be a progress and wasn't going to happen in a single off-season.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2021 6:49 am    Post subject:

Quote:
The Lakers in their recent past had a player who could only drove and shot with one hand, was turnover prone, and couldn't shoot to save his life. That player averaged 24/10/6/1 and shot 41% from three en route to their first All-Star appearance three years after they let him walk for nothing.

They had another that Lakers fans had turned against for being passive early in his career. Was also trashed for being inconsistent and unwilling to shoot threes. They traded him and watched him become a 24 point scorer and All-Star the next season while shooting 39% from three on over 6 attempts per game.

If a player has natural tools and a strong work ethic, they can improve on their deficiencies. People need to remember that THT just turned 21 yesterday. He has natural tools and a good work ethic. Give him time.

I respect what you're saying, but I see this a bit differently. If LA keeps Randle, they likely have to pay him Danny Green money. Sure, Randle is now a better player than Danny, but he was not a better fit than Danny the year we won the title. Then, it would take even more money to keep Randle.

When you have AD/Bron/WB. You need the right pieces around them. Waiting around for a 21 year old who could become an all-star once or twice a few years down the road is not worth the wait IF you can get an impact starter for him now around the big 3. It's not like we have a good group of starters around AD/Bron/WB. If we did, I would be patient. It's the opposite. We blew all our quality role players that could start on WB. Added vet min guys, that are not capable to start. Now we need that KCP or Danny Green level player. KCP signed a deal in 2019 and so did Danny. This year we just didn't have the money to sign a starting level 2-way wing.

If THT can get you a starting level 2-way wing, I think this is not only a good trade, it is a no brainer move. Look at how Bron closed out Indiana. He has some elite closing ability left in him. Time is running out. This may be the last year we could win a title for the next 6-7-8 years. Unless THT is franchise talent, I don't wait.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2021 8:52 am    Post subject:

CandyCanes wrote:
slavavov wrote:
Brawn13 wrote:
wolfpaclaker wrote:
It also Randle changing teams two more times, and 3 years after his Lakers career to become that level.

I agree THT has high upside. He is not a typical 2nd round pick. But if you can get a starter for him now, you have to consider it, IMO.


THT has potential…but if we could land an impact player that could help us this year, we’d have to consider trading him.

What is the likelihood he develops into a player that helps put us into title contention AFTER the Lebron era is over?

He’s gonna be good but it’s not like we’d be parting with a future MVP or something.

Lebron and ADs window together is closing…this may be our last chance at another title for the foreseeable future. (20th season 38 yr old Lebron won’t be a top player anymore)

We can consider trading THT for an impact player who can help us now, but please don't trade THT for someone who is 30 or over.


THT for KCP, who says no?


The immediate move after that trade should be firing Pelinka
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2021 8:55 am    Post subject:

wolfpaclaker wrote:
Quote:
The Lakers in their recent past had a player who could only drove and shot with one hand, was turnover prone, and couldn't shoot to save his life. That player averaged 24/10/6/1 and shot 41% from three en route to their first All-Star appearance three years after they let him walk for nothing.

They had another that Lakers fans had turned against for being passive early in his career. Was also trashed for being inconsistent and unwilling to shoot threes. They traded him and watched him become a 24 point scorer and All-Star the next season while shooting 39% from three on over 6 attempts per game.

If a player has natural tools and a strong work ethic, they can improve on their deficiencies. People need to remember that THT just turned 21 yesterday. He has natural tools and a good work ethic. Give him time.

I respect what you're saying, but I see this a bit differently. If LA keeps Randle, they likely have to pay him Danny Green money. Sure, Randle is now a better player than Danny, but he was not a better fit than Danny the year we won the title. Then, it would take even more money to keep Randle.

When you have AD/Bron/WB. You need the right pieces around them. Waiting around for a 21 year old who could become an all-star once or twice a few years down the road is not worth the wait IF you can get an impact starter for him now around the big 3. It's not like we have a good group of starters around AD/Bron/WB. If we did, I would be patient. It's the opposite. We blew all our quality role players that could start on WB. Added vet min guys, that are not capable to start. Now we need that KCP or Danny Green level player. KCP signed a deal in 2019 and so did Danny. This year we just didn't have the money to sign a starting level 2-way wing.

If THT can get you a starting level 2-way wing, I think this is not only a good trade, it is a no brainer move. Look at how Bron closed out Indiana. He has some elite closing ability left in him. Time is running out. This may be the last year we could win a title for the next 6-7-8 years. Unless THT is franchise talent, I don't wait.


It’s beginning to look like the wrong pieces might be Lebron, AD and Westbrook.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2021 9:27 am    Post subject:

I still have high hopes for the youngin. Tony Parker and countless others never really finished with their off hand, what's important is being able to dribble and drive with both hands. He teased us with his first 3 games but consistency shouldn't be expected at this phase of his career.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2021 9:47 am    Post subject:

wolfpaclaker wrote:
If LA keeps Randle, they likely have to pay him Danny Green money. Sure, Randle is now a better player than Danny, but he was not a better fit than Danny the year we won the title. Then, it would take even more money to keep Randle.


My main point there was just on people giving up on our younger players, these forums were all over Randle and Ingram when they were here. But they all eventually became the better versions of themselves. It just takes time. That having been said, the thing I still hate about losing Randle is mostly that they got nothing in return from him.

There is certainly an argument to be made that they can get some value that is better suited to help win a title right now. But that player would need to be a big improvement because THT and Reaves (an undrafted rookie) are the only two young players they have under contract after this season unless Nunn opts in. But in the above I was mainly just referring to the post right above mine where Outspoken said that he needs to develop a left hand and he didn't know if he had faith that he could do it. That's why I started with Randle, because everyone said he had no offhand and no jumpshot.
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cal1piggy
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2021 9:59 am    Post subject:

CandyCanes wrote:
slavavov wrote:
Brawn13 wrote:
wolfpaclaker wrote:
It also Randle changing teams two more times, and 3 years after his Lakers career to become that level.

I agree THT has high upside. He is not a typical 2nd round pick. But if you can get a starter for him now, you have to consider it, IMO.


THT has potential…but if we could land an impact player that could help us this year, we’d have to consider trading him.

What is the likelihood he develops into a player that helps put us into title contention AFTER the Lebron era is over?

He’s gonna be good but it’s not like we’d be parting with a future MVP or something.

Lebron and ADs window together is closing…this may be our last chance at another title for the foreseeable future. (20th season 38 yr old Lebron won’t be a top player anymore)

We can consider trading THT for an impact player who can help us now, but please don't trade THT for someone who is 30 or over.


THT for KCP, who says no?


insanity
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