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3baller
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Joined: 28 Oct 2017
Posts: 992
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 Posted: Sat Nov 27, 2021 6:31 pm Post subject: |
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| kikanga wrote: | | 3baller wrote: | | Car54 wrote: | | oaktown_dimond wrote: | | Russ has definitely improved but he's also part of the reason for the losses. His salary meant the loss of some crucial pieces like AC and KCP. Kuz was a gonner anyway, so not including him. |
Wow  |
Lakers 2020 vs 2021
Off Rating 110 ---> 106
Def Rating 107 ---> 109
Wizards 2020 vs 2021
Off Rating 111 ---> 107
Def Rating 113 ---> 106
The lakers got worse both defensively and offensively. We lost key defensive personnel and we dropped from being the top defense in the league to 20th overall so far. The problem is that adding Russ hasn't really given us the boost offensively that some were probably expecting.
We're still lousy offensively similar to last season but we lost our top defense so here we are struggling to be a .500 team.
Russ playing Russ basketball last season with Beal led the wizards to only the 19th best(?) offense in the league last season. And now we're only getting diminishing returns on that Russ with him being redundant with Bron in the starting lineup so don't expect our offense to improve anytime soon especially with Vogel at the helm. |
Completely fair comparison.
1 sample size is a full year with a roster with more than 3 returning players.
The other is a much smaller sample size with a ton of new players and our best player missing extended time.
All anybody should care about is what we look like in the postseason. But it's fun to reverse engineer a narrative too though.
With fans like these after a 30 point triple double. Who needs rivals?
We definitely have a fantastic record with our guys from last year with Bron missing all this time. Think of how great we were last year with Bron out.  |
How do you even survive outside in the sun with that thin skin? Nice try portraying anyone criticizing Westbrook to be some sort of anti-laker fan.
Howard Rondo and Bradley aren't exactly new to Vogel's system and with Bron and AD and were part of the championship roster.
Let's see we were 12-15 last year without Bron or 44% win rate and so far we are 4-7 or 36.4% this year. I was told adding Westbrook was supposed to remedy that.
Also the postseason? Stans like to point out that Westbrook starts out slow because he did so the past couple of seasons but in the same breath ignore Westbrook's dismal postseason performances in the past few seasons.
_________________
Plan A - Schroder/Hield/Lebron/AD/Gasol
Plan B- Schroder/Powell/Lebron/AD/Gasol
Last edited by 3baller on Sat Nov 27, 2021 7:04 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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M2K
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Joined: 20 Feb 2011
Posts: 2432
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| Posted: Sat Nov 27, 2021 6:33 pm Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | oaktown_dimond wrote: | | Russ has definitely improved but he's also part of the reason for the losses. His salary meant the loss of some crucial pieces like AC and KCP. Kuz was a gonner anyway, so not including him. |
Russ wasn’t the reason that we lost Caruso, Jeanie Buss was. |
100% correct.
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A three headed monster... Jeannie, Pelinka, and Ham... another terrible season. |
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kikanga
Retired Number
Joined: 15 Sep 2012
Posts: 29347
Location: La La Land
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| Posted: Sat Nov 27, 2021 7:30 pm Post subject: |
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| 3baller wrote: | | kikanga wrote: | | 3baller wrote: | | Car54 wrote: | | oaktown_dimond wrote: | | Russ has definitely improved but he's also part of the reason for the losses. His salary meant the loss of some crucial pieces like AC and KCP. Kuz was a gonner anyway, so not including him. |
Wow |
Lakers 2020 vs 2021
Off Rating 110 ---> 106
Def Rating 107 ---> 109
Wizards 2020 vs 2021
Off Rating 111 ---> 107
Def Rating 113 ---> 106
The lakers got worse both defensively and offensively. We lost key defensive personnel and we dropped from being the top defense in the league to 20th overall so far. The problem is that adding Russ hasn't really given us the boost offensively that some were probably expecting.
We're still lousy offensively similar to last season but we lost our top defense so here we are struggling to be a .500 team.
Russ playing Russ basketball last season with Beal led the wizards to only the 19th best(?) offense in the league last season. And now we're only getting diminishing returns on that Russ with him being redundant with Bron in the starting lineup so don't expect our offense to improve anytime soon especially with Vogel at the helm. |
Completely fair comparison.
1 sample size is a full year with a roster with more than 3 returning players.
The other is a much smaller sample size with a ton of new players and our best player missing extended time.
All anybody should care about is what we look like in the postseason. But it's fun to reverse engineer a narrative too though.
With fans like these after a 30 point triple double. Who needs rivals?
We definitely have a fantastic record with our guys from last year with Bron missing all this time. Think of how great we were last year with Bron out. |
How do you even survive outside in the sun with that thin skin? Nice try portraying anyone criticizing Westbrook to be some sort of anti-laker fan.
Howard Rondo and Bradley aren't exactly new to Vogel's system and with Bron and AD and were part of the championship roster.
Let's see we were 12-15 last year without Bron or 44% win rate and so far we are 4-7 or 36.4% this year. I was told adding Westbrook was supposed to remedy that.
Also the postseason? Stans like to point out that Westbrook starts out slow because he did so the past couple of seasons but in the same breath ignore Westbrook's dismal postseason performances in the past few seasons. |
Even your rebuttals acknowledge the holes in your argument. It's sad.
Enjoy routing against us this year!!! "Laker" "Fan".
You're smarter than Bron, AD, and Rob. Rest well keyboard warrior.
Go Caruso!!! Go Bulls!
You guys definitely won't be a 1st round out (like us last year)!
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"Every hurt is a lesson, and every lesson makes you better” |
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pjiddy
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Joined: 12 Dec 2005
Posts: 29077
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| Posted: Sat Nov 27, 2021 9:52 pm Post subject: |
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| kikanga wrote: | | 2019 wrote: | | MJST wrote: | | 2019 wrote: | | Russ is playing much much better. Imagine if we had real role players and not old man bargain bin guys on this roster. |
We have real role players. |
We also have real stars, so what's the issue? I mean, we've got it all, right? |
Mindset, lack of reps together, lack of off ball movement, lack of energy on the glass. We have time to figure it out. But for stretches of games it isn’t fun to watch. |
Lack of fitting well together and lack of being as good and injury-resistant as they were a few years ago are the bigger problems that time together won't reverse. |
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kikanga
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Posts: 29347
Location: La La Land
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| Posted: Sat Nov 27, 2021 10:05 pm Post subject: |
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| pjiddy wrote: | | kikanga wrote: | | 2019 wrote: | | MJST wrote: | | 2019 wrote: | | Russ is playing much much better. Imagine if we had real role players and not old man bargain bin guys on this roster. |
We have real role players. |
We also have real stars, so what's the issue? I mean, we've got it all, right? |
Mindset, lack of reps together, lack of off ball movement, lack of energy on the glass. We have time to figure it out. But for stretches of games it isn’t fun to watch. |
Lack of fitting well together and lack of being as good and injury-resistant as they were a few years ago are the bigger problems that time together won't reverse. |
What time frame are you referencing in the bolded? Where we were good without Bron?
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"Every hurt is a lesson, and every lesson makes you better” |
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roger_federer
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Joined: 01 Mar 2020
Posts: 3118
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| Posted: Sun Nov 28, 2021 1:46 pm Post subject: |
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When yo trade for Russ, you have to change the entire game to fit his style. When we are playing his style, we don't need AD/LBJ. His style only takes you to Playoffs and absolutely nothing past that.
Russ can't play any other way.
I blame this on Rob/LBJ. I don't blame AD as I have very less expectations on his roster constructions skills. |
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3baller
Starting Rotation
Joined: 28 Oct 2017
Posts: 992
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| Posted: Sun Nov 28, 2021 6:05 pm Post subject: |
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| kikanga wrote: | | 3baller wrote: | | kikanga wrote: | | 3baller wrote: | | Car54 wrote: | | oaktown_dimond wrote: | | Russ has definitely improved but he's also part of the reason for the losses. His salary meant the loss of some crucial pieces like AC and KCP. Kuz was a gonner anyway, so not including him. |
Wow |
Lakers 2020 vs 2021
Off Rating 110 ---> 106
Def Rating 107 ---> 109
Wizards 2020 vs 2021
Off Rating 111 ---> 107
Def Rating 113 ---> 106
The lakers got worse both defensively and offensively. We lost key defensive personnel and we dropped from being the top defense in the league to 20th overall so far. The problem is that adding Russ hasn't really given us the boost offensively that some were probably expecting.
We're still lousy offensively similar to last season but we lost our top defense so here we are struggling to be a .500 team.
Russ playing Russ basketball last season with Beal led the wizards to only the 19th best(?) offense in the league last season. And now we're only getting diminishing returns on that Russ with him being redundant with Bron in the starting lineup so don't expect our offense to improve anytime soon especially with Vogel at the helm. |
Completely fair comparison.
1 sample size is a full year with a roster with more than 3 returning players.
The other is a much smaller sample size with a ton of new players and our best player missing extended time.
All anybody should care about is what we look like in the postseason. But it's fun to reverse engineer a narrative too though.
With fans like these after a 30 point triple double. Who needs rivals?
We definitely have a fantastic record with our guys from last year with Bron missing all this time. Think of how great we were last year with Bron out. |
How do you even survive outside in the sun with that thin skin? Nice try portraying anyone criticizing Westbrook to be some sort of anti-laker fan.
Howard Rondo and Bradley aren't exactly new to Vogel's system and with Bron and AD and were part of the championship roster.
Let's see we were 12-15 last year without Bron or 44% win rate and so far we are 4-7 or 36.4% this year. I was told adding Westbrook was supposed to remedy that.
Also the postseason? Stans like to point out that Westbrook starts out slow because he did so the past couple of seasons but in the same breath ignore Westbrook's dismal postseason performances in the past few seasons. |
Even your rebuttals acknowledge the holes in your argument. It's sad.
Enjoy routing against us this year!!! "Laker" "Fan".
You're smarter than Bron, AD, and Rob. Rest well keyboard warrior.
Go Caruso!!! Go Bulls!
You guys definitely won't be a 1st round out (like us last year)! |
You know this dude got nothing left when he plays the "ya'll not real laker fans, enjoy rooting against us" card
_________________
Plan A - Schroder/Hield/Lebron/AD/Gasol
Plan B- Schroder/Powell/Lebron/AD/Gasol |
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wolfpaclaker
Retired Number
Joined: 29 May 2002
Posts: 58344
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| Posted: Sun Nov 28, 2021 9:18 pm Post subject: |
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He has found his role on the team.
Not his fault this is the supporting cast.
THT 4-10
Melo 0-7
Bradley 0-5
Monk 1-5 |
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roger_federer
Star Player
Joined: 01 Mar 2020
Posts: 3118
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| Posted: Sun Nov 28, 2021 9:42 pm Post subject: |
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| wolfpaclaker wrote: | He has found his role on the team.
Not his fault this is the supporting cast.
THT 4-10
Melo 0-7
Bradley 0-5
Monk 1-5 |
isn't WB the reason for signing all those Vet mins? |
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miggz23
Star Player
Joined: 29 Nov 2018
Posts: 6821
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| Posted: Sun Nov 28, 2021 10:07 pm Post subject: |
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He's definitely trending up and looks more comfortable out there... Last 5 games he's been really solid.
Last 5 games: 26.2 ppg / 9 rpg / 9 apg / 3.8 TO / 50.9 FG% / 36.7 3% / +22 |
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mad55557777
Franchise Player
Joined: 29 Jun 2005
Posts: 23272
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| Posted: Sun Nov 28, 2021 10:23 pm Post subject: |
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| roger_federer wrote: | | wolfpaclaker wrote: | He has found his role on the team.
Not his fault this is the supporting cast.
THT 4-10
Melo 0-7
Bradley 0-5
Monk 1-5 |
isn't WB the reason for signing all those Vet mins? |
THT is not on vet min, and melo is making vet min doing better job for us than Kuz. With lebron and AD both on max, we’d be signing vet mins with or without Russ |
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mad55557777
Franchise Player
Joined: 29 Jun 2005
Posts: 23272
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| Posted: Sun Nov 28, 2021 10:24 pm Post subject: |
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| miggz23 wrote: | He's definitely trending up and looks more comfortable out there... Last 5 games he's been really solid.
Last 5 games: 26.2 ppg / 9 rpg / 9 apg / 3.8 TO / 50.9 FG% / 36.7 3% / +22 |
Been a while now, but people on this board will find a way to criticize him. If he can keep up those number, then he is our best player . The man gets AD a ton of easy baskets. |
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miggz23
Star Player
Joined: 29 Nov 2018
Posts: 6821
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| Posted: Sun Nov 28, 2021 10:33 pm Post subject: |
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| mad55557777 wrote: | | miggz23 wrote: | He's definitely trending up and looks more comfortable out there... Last 5 games he's been really solid.
Last 5 games: 26.2 ppg / 9 rpg / 9 apg / 3.8 TO / 50.9 FG% / 36.7 3% / +22 |
Been a while now, but people on this board will find a way to criticize him. If he can keep up those number, then he is our best player . The man gets AD a ton of easy baskets. |
Not sure he can keep up that FG%... But if he can keep the turnovers the same and shoot around 45% fg / 35% 3% that be solid. |
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Inspector Gadget
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Joined: 18 Apr 2016
Posts: 46684
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| Posted: Sun Nov 28, 2021 11:27 pm Post subject: |
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| He’s been ballin, so different then earlier when he was turning it over. |
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Inspector Gadget
Retired Number
Joined: 18 Apr 2016
Posts: 46684
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| Posted: Sun Nov 28, 2021 11:34 pm Post subject: |
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| He’s also been shooting the 3 ball really well in recent weeks, it’s been a joy watching him knock down shots more consistently as the season goes on. |
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LakerSD
Franchise Player
Joined: 10 Nov 2016
Posts: 23788
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| Posted: Sun Nov 28, 2021 11:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Russ is always a slow starter. He’s a flawed rhythm player but he’s not the Lakers main problem. Handful of issues before you even get to Russ flaws. |
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RG73
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Joined: 14 Jul 2001
Posts: 11508
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| Posted: Mon Nov 29, 2021 4:20 am Post subject: |
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| roger_federer wrote: | When yo trade for Russ, you have to change the entire game to fit his style. When we are playing his style, we don't need AD/LBJ. His style only takes you to Playoffs and absolutely nothing past that.
Russ can't play any other way.
I blame this on Rob/LBJ. I don't blame AD as I have very less expectations on his roster constructions skills. |
Russ's style got to the Finals once and to a game 7 in the WCF, so there's that.
But don't let me interrupt your simplistic analysis of basketball wherein team success is defined by a single player.... |
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RG73
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Joined: 14 Jul 2001
Posts: 11508
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| Posted: Mon Nov 29, 2021 4:24 am Post subject: |
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| roger_federer wrote: | | wolfpaclaker wrote: | He has found his role on the team.
Not his fault this is the supporting cast.
THT 4-10
Melo 0-7
Bradley 0-5
Monk 1-5 |
isn't WB the reason for signing all those Vet mins? |
No. I'm pretty sure that the FO offers the contracts and the owner of the team signs the checks. I'm not aware of Westbrook having double duty as the GM of the team.
WB had nothing to do with letting Caruso walk--ownership made that decision. WB had nothing to do with THT's contract.
I know it's the latest greatest thing for people to pretend that players run teams and are solely responsible for the bad decisions that teams make, but it is also a completely false narrative. |
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waterman40
Star Player
Joined: 17 Jun 2003
Posts: 6287
Location: Central Coast
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| Posted: Mon Nov 29, 2021 4:46 am Post subject: |
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Our worst fears have been realized and I don't think we can trade our way out of this mess. We just need to find a way to make this work, make WB more efficient and we need some better shooting and overall team defense.
WB trade was one deal - then the team decided between Caruso and THT. In fact, I think they already and made their decision by the end of last season and THT was who they decided to keep.
The problem is we traded KCP and let AC walk.
we also traded Kuzma, a decent wing defender and didn't replace him with anyone taller than 6' 5".
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LAKERS 2019-2020: NBA World Champions! |
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2019
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Joined: 03 Dec 2014
Posts: 10812
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| Posted: Mon Nov 29, 2021 9:32 am Post subject: |
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| waterman40 wrote: | Our worst fears have been realized and I don't think we can trade our way out of this mess. We just need to find a way to make this work, make WB more efficient and we need some better shooting and overall team defense.
WB trade was one deal - then the team decided between Caruso and THT. In fact, I think they already and made their decision by the end of last season and THT was who they decided to keep.
The problem is we traded KCP and let AC walk.
we also traded Kuzma, a decent wing defender and didn't replace him with anyone taller than 6' 5". |
Choosing between AC and THT was a byproduct of saving money AND pleasing Klutch. As far as we know, no other team was showing THT significant interest or made an offer.
In reality, a shrewd GM not beholden to it's star player and his agency would have S&T THT for immediate help. He's just not there yet.
A GM with a deep pocketed owner would have Brough AC back. The Buss family can't afford the exorbitant luxury tax bills the way others can. |
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mad55557777
Franchise Player
Joined: 29 Jun 2005
Posts: 23272
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| Posted: Mon Nov 29, 2021 10:05 am Post subject: |
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| 2019 wrote: | | waterman40 wrote: | Our worst fears have been realized and I don't think we can trade our way out of this mess. We just need to find a way to make this work, make WB more efficient and we need some better shooting and overall team defense.
WB trade was one deal - then the team decided between Caruso and THT. In fact, I think they already and made their decision by the end of last season and THT was who they decided to keep.
The problem is we traded KCP and let AC walk.
we also traded Kuzma, a decent wing defender and didn't replace him with anyone taller than 6' 5". |
Choosing between AC and THT was a byproduct of saving money AND pleasing Klutch. As far as we know, no other team was showing THT significant interest or made an offer.
In reality, a shrewd GM not beholden to it's star player and his agency would have S&T THT for immediate help. He's just not there yet.
A GM with a deep pocketed owner would have Brough AC back. The Buss family can't afford the exorbitant luxury tax bills the way others can. |
we'd probably lose AC with or without westbrook. |
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wolfpaclaker
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Joined: 29 May 2002
Posts: 58344
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| Posted: Mon Nov 29, 2021 10:09 am Post subject: |
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| miggz23 wrote: | He's definitely trending up and looks more comfortable out there... Last 5 games he's been really solid.
Last 5 games: 26.2 ppg / 9 rpg / 9 apg / 3.8 TO / 50.9 FG% / 36.7 3% / +22 |
He's an all-star level player. There's no question about it. If we can somehow find a rotation around the big 3 (and it can be a short one of 8 players) that can play defense, we will be a very good team. I don't think we can get higher than 3rd in the West, but the main issue to me seems to be the lack of consistency we get from players around the big 3, not the big 3 itself. It's weird how a large portion of the board is against one of the big 3. You have your Lebron hate, AD hate, WB hate. When I see them play, I see 3 players that are all-stars. It's very obvious. The rest of our guys around them though, are very inconsistent and don't provide enough D/3 point shooting. If Rob wants some love from me, he needs to go out and get some more defensive players that can hit some 3 pointers. We need that like a fish needs water.
Like I mean when your role guys go 5-27. How can one blame AD/Bron/WB? They can't force the role guys to make those shots. It's on them. Same way, they can't force Melo to defend, or Monk to play with a higher IQ, or others. It's really a talent thing IMO. We lack those KCP/Danny Green/Caruso types around the big 3. If we get even 2 of those 3 players, 2 of those kind of players, we would be the front runner to win it all, IMO. For every good thing the big 3 can do, we negate it with our inability to sustain shots from outside or play defense around them. This is really an issue that can only be fixed by Rob Pelinka.
THT, Nunn, Monk. Those are 3 young guys that should have some trade value around the league. If those 3 can not be dependable like Danny Green/KCP/Caruso were in their roles, we need to move them for at least 1 player like that. We don't need young guys with talent. We need consistent defensive role players that know where to take shots in the offense. |
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leking006
Star Player
Joined: 12 Oct 2018
Posts: 6398
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miggz23
Star Player
Joined: 29 Nov 2018
Posts: 6821
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| Posted: Mon Nov 29, 2021 5:52 pm Post subject: |
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| leking006 wrote: | https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/russell-westbrook-shot-chart-in-2022
Last and this season's shot chart shows thar Russ is a very good corner 3pt shooter and decent top of the key 3 pt shooter while being bad in shooting at wings. |
I think if he can totally avoid taking those wing 3s, his percentage might climb a bit. |
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miggz23
Star Player
Joined: 29 Nov 2018
Posts: 6821
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| Posted: Mon Nov 29, 2021 5:57 pm Post subject: |
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| wolfpaclaker wrote: | | miggz23 wrote: | He's definitely trending up and looks more comfortable out there... Last 5 games he's been really solid.
Last 5 games: 26.2 ppg / 9 rpg / 9 apg / 3.8 TO / 50.9 FG% / 36.7 3% / +22 |
He's an all-star level player. There's no question about it. If we can somehow find a rotation around the big 3 (and it can be a short one of 8 players) that can play defense, we will be a very good team. I don't think we can get higher than 3rd in the West, but the main issue to me seems to be the lack of consistency we get from players around the big 3, not the big 3 itself. It's weird how a large portion of the board is against one of the big 3. You have your Lebron hate, AD hate, WB hate. When I see them play, I see 3 players that are all-stars. It's very obvious. The rest of our guys around them though, are very inconsistent and don't provide enough D/3 point shooting. If Rob wants some love from me, he needs to go out and get some more defensive players that can hit some 3 pointers. We need that like a fish needs water.
Like I mean when your role guys go 5-27. How can one blame AD/Bron/WB? They can't force the role guys to make those shots. It's on them. Same way, they can't force Melo to defend, or Monk to play with a higher IQ, or others. It's really a talent thing IMO. We lack those KCP/Danny Green/Caruso types around the big 3. If we get even 2 of those 3 players, 2 of those kind of players, we would be the front runner to win it all, IMO. For every good thing the big 3 can do, we negate it with our inability to sustain shots from outside or play defense around them. This is really an issue that can only be fixed by Rob Pelinka.
THT, Nunn, Monk. Those are 3 young guys that should have some trade value around the league. If those 3 can not be dependable like Danny Green/KCP/Caruso were in their roles, we need to move them for at least 1 player like that. We don't need young guys with talent. We need consistent defensive role players that know where to take shots in the offense. |
Reason I was pushing to bring in OPJ/Jeff Green/Iggy... If we would have landed 1 or 2 of those guys will be much better defensively... Those are long 3 and D guys. Iggy is more of a taller Rondo on the defensive side of the ball. |
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