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Lakerfan 4 Life Franchise Player
Joined: 16 Apr 2001 Posts: 16069
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Posted: Fri Mar 19, 2010 8:55 pm Post subject: Kobe Prefers Evan Turner Over John Wall |
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Quote: | Kobe Bryant watched Ohio State's double-overtime win over Illinois in the Big 10 tournament and came away convinced of Evan Turner's abilities. “He seemed like the best player in the country to me,” Bryant said of Turner. “…He looked like he has all the tools. I think Wall is a great player, but I like Turner.”
Turner entered the NCAA tournament averaging 20.3 points, 9.2 rebounds and 5.9 assists. Bryant likened him to Brandon Roy.
“He can shoot, can handle, can go left, smooth, doesn’t rush anything,” Bryant said. “He has a good pace to him.”
“You can make a case for either [Wall or Turner],” one NBA general manager said. “Wall is the better athlete. But Turner is the better ball-handler and a more complete player. He’s a guy who can do it all. He’s more experienced, as well.”
Another GM said Turner could eventually compare to Atlanta Hawks guard Joe Johnson, at best. Wall’s upside, he said, is too much to pass on because Wall could quickly become one of the top five point guards in the league.
“If you miss on John Wall, the worst you get is Derrick Rose(notes),” the GM said. “If you miss on Evan Turner, you get Larry Hughes.” |
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=mc-afterthebuzzer031910&prov=yhoo&type=lgns |
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Mike@LG Moderator
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
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Posted: Fri Mar 19, 2010 9:36 pm Post subject: |
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So do I. _________________ Resident Car Nut.
https://lakersdraft.substack.com/
I am not an economic advisor nor do I advise economic strategies or plans. |
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Fan0Bynum17 Franchise Player
Joined: 30 Nov 2005 Posts: 15436
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Posted: Fri Mar 19, 2010 9:42 pm Post subject: |
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kobe1kanobe Starting Rotation
Joined: 01 Dec 2006 Posts: 749
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Posted: Fri Mar 19, 2010 10:05 pm Post subject: |
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So...can the lakers get him??? |
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VALakerFan80 Star Player
Joined: 02 Jul 2009 Posts: 1590
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Posted: Fri Mar 19, 2010 10:09 pm Post subject: |
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I'm a John Wall fan, he's a point guard that can change the franchise. |
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Runway8 Franchise Player
Joined: 19 Apr 2003 Posts: 22731 Location: La Jolla, San Diego
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Posted: Fri Mar 19, 2010 10:15 pm Post subject: |
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the GM said. “If you miss on Evan Turner, you get Larry Hughes.” Probably similar comments were said about Brandon Roy. Anyway, you never know. |
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Fan0Bynum17 Franchise Player
Joined: 30 Nov 2005 Posts: 15436
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Posted: Fri Mar 19, 2010 10:22 pm Post subject: |
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at Rose being Wall's wcs. |
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Jeffs Retired Number
Joined: 17 Aug 2006 Posts: 25274
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Posted: Fri Mar 19, 2010 10:53 pm Post subject: |
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Turner will be a better rookie. Wall has a way higher upside (imo). Keep in mind that Turner has had more time to develop than Wall has. _________________ Jeffs
I feel like I just watched someone TRULY give 100%. Not the BS I'm-gonna-give-a-110%-just-like-everyone-else-says platitudes, but someone that went until he just....broke. - GT |
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Jeffs Retired Number
Joined: 17 Aug 2006 Posts: 25274
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Posted: Fri Mar 19, 2010 10:55 pm Post subject: |
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Runway8 wrote: | the GM said. “If you miss on Evan Turner, you get Larry Hughes.” Probably similar comments were said about Brandon Roy. Anyway, you never know. |
Actually, Roy was thought of to be a pretty safe pick. He dropped a little bit because lack of a perceived upside. _________________ Jeffs
I feel like I just watched someone TRULY give 100%. Not the BS I'm-gonna-give-a-110%-just-like-everyone-else-says platitudes, but someone that went until he just....broke. - GT |
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Ted Star Player
Joined: 24 Jun 2005 Posts: 3477
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Posted: Fri Mar 19, 2010 11:03 pm Post subject: |
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I see great things with Wall, I think he has "it". |
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Michlake Star Player
Joined: 14 Jan 2006 Posts: 3696
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Posted: Fri Mar 19, 2010 11:53 pm Post subject: |
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I am a Wall guy. |
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moonriver24 Franchise Player
Joined: 21 Oct 2007 Posts: 15265
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Mike@LG Moderator
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
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Posted: Sat Mar 20, 2010 6:59 am Post subject: |
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Larry Hughes doesn't have hoop IQ. Evan Turner wouldn't get to that point. He's already past it.
When I think of Evan Turner's talent, there's some Brandon Roy with efficiency, some Paul Pierce with strength and athleticism, and a whole lot of Danny Granger with the stat filling across the board.
http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Evan-Turner-1115/
I agree with this scouting report. Sure, he plays below the rim. Granger and Pierce do too. His only weakness is an average handle and 3pt. shot, and yet, he's that efficient.
But his strengths are far far more complete.
People don't even realize, he has the same amount of turnovers as John Wall, and yet, is just 0.3 assists per game away from averaging the same amount of assists. _________________ Resident Car Nut.
https://lakersdraft.substack.com/
I am not an economic advisor nor do I advise economic strategies or plans. |
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Yong Star Player
Joined: 08 Oct 2009 Posts: 9024
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Posted: Sat Mar 20, 2010 8:27 am Post subject: |
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Mike can i just ask, whats your definitions or benchmarks for "above average", "good" and "elite" ball handling skills.
just being curious how evans is only "average" in your eyes |
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Mike@LG Moderator
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
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Posted: Sat Mar 20, 2010 8:56 am Post subject: |
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Yong wrote: | Mike can i just ask, whats your definitions or benchmarks for "above average", "good" and "elite" ball handling skills.
just being curious how evans is only "average" in your eyes |
Average. Basic crossover moves. Can shake a defender limitedly, but 2nd or 3rd defender... not as easy using the dribble. Usually needs a pick to free up into the lane. Ron Artest. Fisher. Jason Richardson.
Above average/good. Crossovers + change of speed dribbles. Kobe Bryant, McGrady. Odom. Farmar. Hedo Turkoglu.
Elite. Multiple changes of direction, speed, footwork, on limited turnovers. Steve Nash. Chris Paul. Deron Williams. Jason Kidd.
Below average: James Worthy. Devean George. _________________ Resident Car Nut.
https://lakersdraft.substack.com/
I am not an economic advisor nor do I advise economic strategies or plans. |
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dEDGE Starting Rotation
Joined: 27 Mar 2009 Posts: 133
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Posted: Sat Mar 20, 2010 10:22 am Post subject: |
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Emeka Okafor was the safe and logical No. 1 selection in the 2004 NBA Draft but Orlando chose to go with the unpolished, athletic Dwight Howard. You pass on John Wall and you pass on possible greatness. _________________ dEDGE - Lakers commentary |
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Laker7 Star Player
Joined: 24 Feb 2003 Posts: 6389 Location: Past left field
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Posted: Sat Mar 20, 2010 10:27 am Post subject: |
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The thing I like about Turner is his head. He does not have so big of an ego that he has to have the ball at crunch time. He will pass out of a double team without a second thought. He is a better team mate that the press gives him credit for. _________________ Keep winning! |
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Mike@LG Moderator
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
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Posted: Sat Mar 20, 2010 10:32 am Post subject: |
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dEDGE wrote: | Emeka Okafor was the safe and logical No. 1 selection in the 2004 NBA Draft but Orlando chose to go with the unpolished, athletic Dwight Howard. You pass on John Wall and you pass on possible greatness. |
False. Reports of Okafor's back issues surfaced and that's what had him slip to #2.
You pass on Greg Oden you pass on greatness... with Kevin Durant... _________________ Resident Car Nut.
https://lakersdraft.substack.com/
I am not an economic advisor nor do I advise economic strategies or plans. |
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Tick Franchise Player
Joined: 21 Apr 2006 Posts: 14967 Location: Raleigh, NC
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Posted: Sat Mar 20, 2010 10:47 am Post subject: |
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Wall is more of a distributor than a scorer, so I don't know if one can compare the two. I think Turner will end up a 2 guard in the NBA. But Wall? With his ball handling and speed? I don't even think Barbosa, Felton, or Rondo could catch him. I can't imagine anyone faster than Wall while handling the ball. |
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Jeffs Retired Number
Joined: 17 Aug 2006 Posts: 25274
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Posted: Sat Mar 20, 2010 10:47 am Post subject: |
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Mike@LG wrote: | dEDGE wrote: | Emeka Okafor was the safe and logical No. 1 selection in the 2004 NBA Draft but Orlando chose to go with the unpolished, athletic Dwight Howard. You pass on John Wall and you pass on possible greatness. |
False. Reports of Okafor's back issues surfaced and that's what had him slip to #2.
You pass on Greg Oden you pass on greatness... with Kevin Durant... |
Oden/Durant situation is different. For starters, both Durant and Oden were freshmen. Durant absolutely dominated the NCAA as a freshman. Evan Turner? 8.5/4.4/2.6 with 2.7 TOs. He has steadily improved across the board, as you would expect, but you have to factor in that he has had those extra two years to improve...
The other obvious difference is that Oden's problem was almost entirely due to injuries. I don't know how good he could have been if his knees had held up, and I doubt we ever will, but I can certainly understand why people were enamored with him coming out. Especially since there is only one legit dominant center in the NBA right now.
Evan Turner can turn out to be very good, and I suspect that he will. However, I just think Wall has the higher upside, and that teams will really regret it 2-3 years down the line if they pass on the kid. Just think of what he'd be doing to the NCAA as a junior instead of an 18y/o kid. _________________ Jeffs
I feel like I just watched someone TRULY give 100%. Not the BS I'm-gonna-give-a-110%-just-like-everyone-else-says platitudes, but someone that went until he just....broke. - GT |
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Mike@LG Moderator
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
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Posted: Sat Mar 20, 2010 10:51 am Post subject: |
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^You're going by skills with age and I understand that.
However, they are two different players. I mean Dwyane Wade's frosh year isn't spectacular at all, but after Marquette he became a self-made player as well.
John Wall has immense talent. So does Evan Turner. Wall is a potential franchise player and I understand why that would garner him #1.
But just because Turner isn't some elite athlete, doesn't mean he couldn't win games like Pierce or Granger if he had a proper team around him.
I think Turner ends up playing 3.
Outside of a point forward, the Lakers need a guy exactly like this:
http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Wesley-Johnson-1215/ _________________ Resident Car Nut.
https://lakersdraft.substack.com/
I am not an economic advisor nor do I advise economic strategies or plans. |
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Jeffs Retired Number
Joined: 17 Aug 2006 Posts: 25274
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Posted: Sat Mar 20, 2010 11:02 am Post subject: |
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^ Oh, I never said Turner wouldn't turn out to be a great player. I fully expect him to. What impresses me the most about him (and you don't really see this in Wall yet) is how he is completely calm and collected in crunch time. People may remember the 3 he had to win the game, but I think more about the game they had afterward where he made play after play in crunch time, including tying the game to take it into OT. I was very impressed - he didn't rush anything at all, and instead waited until he saw an opening and went in for a nice reverse layup.
I agree on Turner probably playing the 3. It will allow him to be in better rebounding position, and I think he'll be a very good rebounder compared to other 3s in the league. Of course, the other reason is that his outside shot isn't quite that good just yet, so the 3 certainly feels like a better fit.
I think Wall may have a low efficiency year coming out (TOs and clanked jumpers), but there's just no one in the NBA that can stick with this kid. It should be illegal to be as quick as he is with the handles that he has. I don't know if I have ever seen someone handle the ball as well as he does while going full speed. Guys the Barbosa are quick on the break, but they can only go one direction. Paul relies more on his shiftyness to get by and create good angles. Willliams/Rose rely more on their explosiveness and first step. Wall can incorporate all of that, while maintaining his balance and dribble. Once he learns how to at least knock down an 18-20 footer, the kid is going to be scary. _________________ Jeffs
I feel like I just watched someone TRULY give 100%. Not the BS I'm-gonna-give-a-110%-just-like-everyone-else-says platitudes, but someone that went until he just....broke. - GT |
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styleripftw Star Player
Joined: 29 Nov 2008 Posts: 1721
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Posted: Sat Mar 20, 2010 11:07 am Post subject: |
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Evans is a Darko milicic of point guards. |
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jonnybravo Retired Number
Joined: 21 Sep 2007 Posts: 30570
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Posted: Sat Mar 20, 2010 12:59 pm Post subject: |
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Mike@LG wrote: | Yong wrote: | Mike can i just ask, whats your definitions or benchmarks for "above average", "good" and "elite" ball handling skills.
just being curious how evans is only "average" in your eyes |
Average. Basic crossover moves. Can shake a defender limitedly, but 2nd or 3rd defender... not as easy using the dribble. Usually needs a pick to free up into the lane. Ron Artest. Fisher. Jason Richardson.
Above average/good. Crossovers + change of speed dribbles. Kobe Bryant, McGrady. Odom. Farmar. Hedo Turkoglu.
Elite. Multiple changes of direction, speed, footwork, on limited turnovers. Steve Nash. Chris Paul. Deron Williams. Jason Kidd.
Below average: James Worthy. Devean George. |
I would put Kobe at elite level easily. |
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Jeffs Retired Number
Joined: 17 Aug 2006 Posts: 25274
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Posted: Sat Mar 20, 2010 1:10 pm Post subject: |
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Kobe's footwork is certainly elite (tops in the league, IMO). However, his change of speed/direction isn't as great as it once was. Don't know if he belongs in the same category as the other guys Mike listed after him, but he doesn't belong in the same category as Nash/Paul/etc. either. _________________ Jeffs
I feel like I just watched someone TRULY give 100%. Not the BS I'm-gonna-give-a-110%-just-like-everyone-else-says platitudes, but someone that went until he just....broke. - GT |
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