I think it's rigged, but I watch anyway. Stern is an evil genius.
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DJ Qube
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 8:51 pm    Post subject: I think it's rigged, but I watch anyway. Stern is an evil genius.

I may be in the minority, but I truly believe the outcomes of games are being manipulated to some extent. Many different motives have been tossed around, but that has been discussed to death in dozens of threads already, so I'll leave that out of this for now.

My point of this thread is to explain how I have come to see the NBA, and why I still watch, despite my belief that it is being rigged to a certain extent. Maybe my revelation can help those of you who are as upset at the officiating as I once was.


Stern has created a new form of entertainment and is using the NBA to deliver it to us. It's no longer the pure sport that basketball fans can appreciate being played at the highest level. It's now an clever mix of professional sports, mixed with game show, mixed with reality TV.


Game shows have ALWAYS been a big form of entertainment, even before the TV was invented. It's great entertainment to watch people use their skills, whether it be mental or physical, to battle their way to success. People love to root for contestants they can identify with when put in these situations, and even laugh at and relish in the failure of others.

In the 1950s, game show producers realized they could reel in more viewers by rigging shows so that the more popular contestants would win, and more people would tune in and get emotionally invested in the contestants and the show. Everything was going great until one of the people involved in the scandal decided he'd had enough of it and blew the lid off of it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twenty_One_%28game_show%29
Quote:
"The networks denied everything and canceled the now-suspicious shows. Meanwhile, New York prosecutor Joseph Stone convened a grand jury to investigate the charges. Many of the coached contestants, who had become celebrities due to their quiz-show success, were so afraid of the social repercussions that they were unwilling to confess to having been coached, even to the point of perjuring themselves to avoid backlash."

This is what I see the NBA in the midst of right now. Tim Donaghy has attempted to blow the lid off off of it, and the FBI has become involved. Everyone is throwing Donaghy under the bus right now, in an effort to save their own asses. A large number of poeople who watch NBA games the way we do, no matter what team they root for, truly believe that guys like Bob Delaney, Eddie F Rush and Bennet Salvatore, are involved in something seedy at some level, but of course, they're not going to come clean, even under oath if it came down to it.


Reality shows, which started in the 90s, are a phenomenon. When MTV first aired "The Real World", it was a sensation. Many, many shows followed, and now people watch all kinds of singing, dancing, dating shows, etc. The problem with reality shows is that many reality shows, it turns out, are fake. Many reality shows will have a quick flash of text that says something like “The following program may contain scenes that have been created purely for entertainment purposes.”

Sometimes reality just isn't that exciting, unfortunately. This is when producers decide to step in and "enhance" reality to make it more attractive for the viewing audience. It may not be common knowledge, but it is FACT that many reality shows are either scripted, contestants are coached, or footage edited in a way to make things appear different than what actually happened.

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1154194,00.html
As far as the NBA is concerned, sometimes having a dominant team winning over and over and over again, just isn't that exciting. So you handicap the dominant teams, create rivalries, and create a sense of parity in the league, even if it's fake.


I have come to terms with what Stern has turned the NBA into, and my new outlook makes it much easier to take these losses. I am no longer on the emotional roller coaster that I used to be on after wins and losses. I still watch the Lakers. They are the only team I root for and I will continue to root for them, even if some officiating scandal blows the NBA wide open. If they win it all, cool, if not, it just wasn't in the script this year.


What Stern is doing is pretty ingenious, if you think about it. At the time, people found it impossible to believe game shows were fixed, but they were. People are told that their favorite reality shows are fake, but they still continue to get emotionally invested in them at a much higher level than they would an ordinary scripted drama.

Stern has now done the same thing with professional sports. He has taken something that is "impossible to fix", something that people get emotionally invested in at the highest level, and turned it into a new form of entertainment entirely. Heck, I believe it's rigged, outcomes of several games are predetermined, but I still watch, and I still get emotionally invested in the outcomes (just not to the extent that I used to).



Stern has put his own twist on a professional sport in an attempt to draw more casual fans, and to his credit, it has worked. Unfortunately, just like fixed game shows and staged reality shows, people will eventually catch on. The media attention that has been brought on the refs this year, to me, shows that people really aren't buying it anymore. The credibility of the league is in question and is declining rapidly. It's really only a matter of time before something big happens. The NBA as it exists today will not last much longer, so enjoy it for what it is while you still can.
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RealOne
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 8:53 pm    Post subject:

Vince McStern is milking it to a Game 7 it seems. Still, it's great drama.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 9:03 pm    Post subject:

preaching to the choir
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ignardlakerfan
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 9:07 pm    Post subject:

plus the ratings from game 4 were the highest since 94 or 04....so im sure stern is happy as hell about that....7 games it is
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David Rivers
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 9:09 pm    Post subject:

Disagree. The tougher, better team (Celtics) will win the series.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 9:21 pm    Post subject:

we need a new commish also 5 refs on the floor
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srm90
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 9:24 pm    Post subject:

David Rivers wrote:
Disagree. The tougher, better team (Celtics) will win the series.


I see trolling the Dodgers just wasn't enough for you.
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Bryant_Giant
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 9:46 pm    Post subject:

srm90 wrote:
David Rivers wrote:
Disagree. The tougher, better team (Celtics) will win the series.


I see trolling the Dodgers just wasn't enough for you.


He is a lonely fan, with nothing else to do, and one else to enjoy the series with. Therefore, he spends his time trolling and trying to prove a point at Los Angeles forums.

Hang in there David Rivers.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 9:48 pm    Post subject:

Come on...
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999
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 10:04 pm    Post subject:

well stern is italian.... so he might have tony soprano in his ear every now and then
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 10:19 pm    Post subject:

Nice job, DJ Qube. Well said, and intelligently thought through. I'm in the same boat. I'd be able to let it go entirely if not for Kobe. No matter what the script says, I can tell that I am seeing the best shooting guard ever. And I want to be able to witness it from a pure, competitive basketball perspective. But we can't. It's like Brock Lesnar and WWF...if you watch WWF, you have no idea how good a fighter or wrestler he is. you have to watch him in a pure competitive arena to appreciate the skills. It's the same with Kobe...we don't get to see him play actual basketball. honestly, I still don't know how good he actually is. He hasn't been allowed to play in the last 4 Finals he's been in,and that sucks from a basketball standpoint.

i don't know if you are like that, either. it sounds like you still watch because of the lakers in general, and just kind of enjoy the ride, regardless of the outcome. That's nice. But for me, I think I'm done following at all once Kobe retires, or maybe even earlier. I used to watch all 82, not anymore. Now, i watch every now and then, and the playoffs. i even missed a couple of Finals games...I don't care. And once Kobe retires, I won't care at all. No visiting LG, no checking espn. I'll watch the playoff games occasionally because people will have parties and stuff for it, but I'm pretty much done.
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Roger O. Thornhill
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 10:46 pm    Post subject:

Was I the only one who thought of Descartes' Evil Genius when I saw the thread title?

I guess that makes us all nothing more than brains in a vat.
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 12, 2010 5:22 am    Post subject:

You may find this to be helpful:

http://zapatopi.net/afdb/build.html
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 12, 2010 5:32 am    Post subject:

i don;t know if Stern hates Lakers,what i know for sure is Stern hates Kobe so much.Everyone can hack Kobe,grab his arm without getting any calls.
Stop telling me Kobe is not great, no one can play thorugh these like him.
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Rick12322
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 12, 2010 5:43 am    Post subject:

The Lakers overcame bad refereeing in rounds 1 and 3 because they were much better than those teams. Because of injuries to Utah, the Lakers outmatched them so bad the refs almost didn't even try to help them, it was almost neutral reffing and Utah had zero chance.

Enter the Finals, two teams with a lot of talent and a closer matchup. Voila! you have the recipe for controlling the outcome of games via unnatural swings in the officiating. If the refs call it tight it helps the Lakers because the Lakers don't practice cheating tactics like the Celtics. They aren't taught to purposely violate a slew of rules in order to gain an advantage. If the game is called loosely it endorses all of Boston's cheating tactics. And none of this even accounts for the purposely made bad calls, especially in the 4th quarter.

So ladies and gentlemen, we have a tied series: Refs 2 to Refs 2. Exciting, isn't it?
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 12, 2010 5:52 am    Post subject:

Rick12322 wrote:
The Lakers overcame bad refereeing in rounds 1 and 3 because they were much better than those teams. Because of injuries to Utah, the Lakers outmatched them so bad the refs almost didn't even try to help them, it was almost neutral reffing and Utah had zero chance.

Enter the Finals, two teams with a lot of talent and a closer matchup. Voila! you have the recipe for controlling the outcome of games via unnatural swings in the officiating. If the refs call it tight it helps the Lakers because the Lakers don't practice cheating tactics like the Celtics. They aren't taught to purposely violate a slew of rules in order to gain an advantage. If the game is called loosely it endorses all of Boston's cheating tactics. And none of this even accounts for the purposely made bad calls, especially in the 4th quarter.

So ladies and gentlemen, we have a tied series: Refs 2 to Refs 2. Exciting, isn't it?



Yeah it doesn't make Stern a genius just evil.
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firstSpartan37
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 12, 2010 5:55 am    Post subject:

RealOne wrote:
Vince McStern is milking it to a Game 7 it seems. Still, it's great drama.



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LALtripleOcho
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 12, 2010 6:23 am    Post subject:

If the NBA is rigged like you say for ratings then don't you think the League would want the Golden Child to be in the Finals. Cavs vs Lakers(Lebron vs Kobe) would be one of the most watched Finals or most watched anything in a long time.

Still a very well written Post
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 12, 2010 6:34 am    Post subject:

LALtripleOcho wrote:
If the NBA is rigged like you say for ratings then don't you think the League would want the Golden Child to be in the Finals. Cavs vs Lakers(Lebron vs Kobe) would be one of the most watched Finals or most watched anything in a long time.

Still a very well written Post



Because even Stern isn't that powerful.
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Rick12322
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 12, 2010 6:47 am    Post subject:

LALtripleOcho wrote:
If the NBA is rigged like you say for ratings then don't you think the League would want the Golden Child to be in the Finals. Cavs vs Lakers(Lebron vs Kobe) would be one of the most watched Finals or most watched anything in a long time.

Still a very well written Post


Maybe he does, but what's even more important to him is his cut from the ratings boon and the high bids from Networks for the next cable TV contract, and given the propensity Networks have for hating the Lakers and this is supported by the tools they put up as color analysts and announcers, then it might behoove the commissioner to give a boost toward an Eastern team.

Mind you, that's a feat made possible by Stern's stubborn refusal to let go of control over the officiating and turning it over to an outside entity.


Last edited by Rick12322 on Sat Jun 12, 2010 6:55 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 12, 2010 6:53 am    Post subject:

Grab the baby wipes.....
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 12, 2010 6:53 am    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
You may find this to be helpful:

http://zapatopi.net/afdb/build.html
You're exactly the kind of viewer Stern likes. You take what you're fed, don't complain, and keep coming back for more.
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Rick12322
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 12, 2010 7:00 am    Post subject:

Sleepy wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
You may find this to be helpful:

http://zapatopi.net/afdb/build.html
You're exactly the kind of viewer Stern likes. You take what you're fed, don't complain, and keep coming back for more.


Just ignore David, he's trying to do damage control.
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 12, 2010 7:06 am    Post subject:

So once again we have a "conspiracy" thread... and talk about new "twist" we have the NBA compared to "reality shows" and "game shows"... Stern is an "evil genius" and now we are told to watch the NBA while we can because it is only a matter of time this is all uncovered and the MULTI BILLION DOLLAR SPORTS CONGLOMERATE CALLED THE NBA WILL BE DESTROYED...

... and others will join the bandwagon of course some adding WWF comparisons and in one case making it clear that Kobe is really the only reason for continuing to watch BB...

Look we all know that for any conspiracy to work we have to have a number of people involved... those people clearly have to include the referees and some at high levels in the NBA most agreeing that Stern is at the top of it all...

So then we are to believe that the referees are going to actually risk their annual 75K salary, risk theirs and their families future, their retirement benefits knowing there would be nothing else for them in their lives if found out... and we are going to believe that Stern and others below him will risk not only their careers and everything that goes with that as well as the multi-billion dollar PRO league of Basketball including he team owners and players many of whom make tens of millions of dollars a year thanks to the NBA with all parties involved knowing all of this is totally lost if found out... Just this alone would make one pause for a moment without even considering how totally ridiculous it is to presume any level of rational thought would allow one to consider for a moment this were possible regarding the logistics of pulling this off involving the suggested responsible parties including referees and NBA executives etc.

Please folks, the risk versus reward alone simply does not make sense... the chances are the teams are very often pretty competitive... think about it we are pitting the best teams in the NBA against each other in the post season... I submit to all of you "conspiracy" advocates the fact that there will generally be a very healthy level of competition just leaving everything alone... Consider what would be gained versus what could be lost regarding a "conspiracy" to commit "fraud" involving many people who's entire livelihood is based on the sport of PRO basket ball --- DO YOU REALLY BELIEVE THAT ANYONE IS GOING TO CONCLUDE THAT WHATEVER RELATIVELY SMALL REWARD THERE WOULD BE MANIPULATING GAME RESULTS IS EVEN CLOSE TO THE RISKS INVOLVED when we know that it is most likely not going to always result in what would be the perceived goals in the first place and know full well that no intervention would likely still result in a competitive outcome?.... To believe people will risk their entire personal economic future for what would likely make little difference overall if just left alone when you consider that in some cases intentional wrong calls will actually quite often end up not impacting the game result in the end anyway is absurd from the start... Please people, let's use at least a modicum of common sense....

But, nevertheless, there will be those who will insist the league is "corrupt" at some level... no matter it makes little if any sense at all considering the risk/reward knowing full well the "reward" will be ultimately relatively minimal in nature and very often not even result in what would be the intended "goal" in the first place because as we know we will hear many times from "conspiracy" theorists when a result does not match their "vision" of what should have happened they will say the team won "in spite of the referees"...

... so let's discuss what some insist is the case in the NBA....

I don't think anyone is even remotely suggesting that we go to the level that team owners, head coaches or players themselves are directly involved in basically "throwing games" (at least I hope not)... so presumably it is limited to Stern, others below him and the referee's and with that it ultimately breaks down to calls made in a game to manipulate the outcome...

So all the other points aside that would suggest how absurd these kinds of conclusions really are, it all has to come down to the referee's making "bad" calls to change game results...

And I would presume the referees in this case in the last game would be doing what they could to manipulate the game in favor of the Celtics in this last game with the Lakers having a 2-1 game lead at the time, RIGHT?

Yet what do we find:

--- Early in the first quarter a foul was called on Wallace for fouling Gasol when the replay clearly showed there was no foul. So call #1 that favors the team up 2-1 in the series.

--- Pierce is called for an offensive foul charging Kobe in the 2nd quarter and yet again the reply shows Kobe still moving. Call #2 favoring the team ahead in the series 2-1.

--- Garnett is called for a 3 second violation in the lane when there was only 20 seconds used up on the 24 second clock and it took at least 2 seconds for the Celtics to get to the front court which occurred at the start of the second half. Clearly it is obviously a "bad" call but once again in favor of the Lakers up 2-1 in the series when we know only 4 seconds have expired and 2 of those seconds were used up in the back court.

--- Late in the third Pau fouled Davis under the basket on a make by Davis but no call.

I could go on and on... but the fact is there were a number of very "obvious" calls that favored the Lakers who were ahead in the series and on the verge of going up 3-1.

What is my explanation for these "obvious bad calls", well for me it is "obvious" and that is HUMAN ERROR... In many cases it is the instant replay camera that is required to prove the calls to be "bad"... fact is the game is played at a very fast pace, much faster than ANY OTHER PRO SPORT... CAN WE AGREE ON THIS?

So then.... WOULD WE EXPECT A GAME THAT IS PLAYED AT THE FASTEST PACE OF ANY PRO SPORT TO HAVE CALLS MISSED AND SHOWN TO BE BAD AS A RESULT OF A SLOW MOTION REPLAY?

We've had some series go just four games, one of which involved the Lakers versus the Jazz... so what are we to say here?... The Jazz are out of the loop... The Jazz are not on the take?.... Poor Jazz they are missing out on all that added revenue for some unknown reason...

... Oh and I guess what everyone calls the "Darling of Basketball", Lebron, he is once again going fishing early... I would have thought that a Kobe/Lebron match-up would be what the league would favor... yet now for two years running Cleveland is eliminated...

You see, conspiracy theorists will always have an answer... probably in this case they will say the Celtics are getting old and it is their last chance... but then if Lebron had made it to the finals we would still hear the "I told you so's" regarding a Kobe/Lebron match-up.

Fact is, IT'S EASY TO COME UP WITH A CONSPIRACY THEORY, THEY ARE A "DIME A DOZEN" --- EXPLAINING HOW IT IS EVEN POSSIBLE TO PULL OF IN THE FIRST PLACE IS WHERE IT GETS A LITTLE PROBLEMATIC HOWEVER...

... BUT... Let's not confuse the issue with "reality"... IT IS MORE FUN TO IGNORE THE PROBLEMS WITH HOW IT GETS DONE AND JUST DREAM UP ONE REASON AFTER ANOTHER FOR NBA GAME RESULTS...

These "conspiracy" advocates speak in terms of wanting what is best for the NBA in some cases yet this constant rant of "collusion" and "fraud" at high levels clearly does not help the league...

... I WOULD SUGGEST A FEW OF THESE "CONSPIRACY" ADVOCATES TRY REFEREEING A GAME JUST ONCE (you will find you do not have the luxury of a replay camera) AND SEE HOW DIFFICULT IT REALLY IS BEFORE THEY GO OFF HALF COCKED WITH IN ALL DUE RESPECT ARE NOTHING BUT IRRESPONSIBLE ACCUSATIONS OF CRIME IN HIGH PLACES THAT ARE ULTIMATELY ABSURD TO THINK IS EVEN POSSIBLE TO PULL OFF IN THE FIRST PLACE...

Referee's are human and make mistakes JUST AS ANY OF YOU WOULD AS WELL in a game that is played at such a fast pace that in many cases is really only substantiated as a "bad" call based on a reply camera... we have three officials that are expected to monitor 10 players and see every call perfectly... missed calls ARE BOUND TO OCCUR!!!!

I have said repeatedly how surprised I am to see that the reply ends up totally different than the way I personally saw the call originally...

Fact is, NO OTHER SPORT is subject to constant replays involving most often many calls at the level of minutes and seconds during a game played at the speed of basket ball...

... Sadly some fans want to ignore these facts and figure any way to place a stigma on PRO basketball just because they don't like the outcome of a game and basically say the game of Basket ball is "rigged" from top to bottom... I SOMETIMES WONDER WHAT THE MOTIVE IS FOR THESE SO CALLED FANS OF BASKETBALL...

Sorry folks, but the SIMPLEST ANSWER IS ALSO THE MOST LOGICAL!!!!

... and clearly the CONSPIRACY CONCLUSIONS ARE MUCH MUCH MUCH MORE INTRICATE AND INVOLVED THAT RISK BILLIONS AND BILLIONS OF DOLLARS INVOLVING MULTIPLE PEOPLE WHO WOULD ULTIMATELY BE RISKING THE DESTRUCTION OF A MAJOR PRO SPORT... Get real people... your basing your conclusions on plays that in most cases it takes a slow motion camera to support your, frankly with all due respect, absurd conclusions the league is committing high crime... If it takes a slow motion camera to see the "mistakes" or "bad" calls then wouldn't it be more reasonable to say that "human error" is at work here???... as opposed to all of this elaborate scheme involving people that are already making a very good living at????...

For me I will choose what makes more sense as opposed to what in my mind is totally absurd from top to bottom to even presume is possible to even pull off in the first place...
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Last edited by LA_Lakers_Rule on Sat Jun 12, 2010 7:58 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 12, 2010 7:17 am    Post subject:

For you guys that love the fairly-officiated NBA games and Finals, perhaps you want to sign up on David Stern's Facebook Fan Page. Oh wait, he doesn't have one because he's a crooked ****bag.
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