LO is the most versatile player in the game
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oldschool32
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2005 4:04 pm    Post subject:

Dont take Odom's slow start seriously. He has always started out his seasons slow, especially when learning a new system under a new coach. He needs time to figure just how to perfect his role. I've seen him score in single digits alot in the beginning of seasons. He will come around eventually, just hopefully sooner than later. The whole team needs time, you have to be patient, give them 15-20 games or so, then you will get an idea of what they are-aren't capable of.
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shnjb
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2005 4:13 pm    Post subject:

Once we stop expecting Odom to be what he cannot be, we'll be somewhat satisified.

He cannot finish with authority; he is not an elite athlete.
He is not quick enough to guard SFs or blow past them.
He is not strong or long or athletic enough to hold his own at PF position.
He will never be a very effective 2nd option.
He will never look focused or intense while on the floor. Just listen to him talk while he's in practice; he's clearly high from smoking, and when you're smoking weed, you can't be intense)


Now what he CAN do...
He'll be a good passer, one who can help Kobe play the wing position and not have to handle the ball so much.
He'll grab his share of defensive rebounds.
He'll occasionally look like the second coming of Scottie Pippen and fool LGers into thinking that he's an all-star.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2005 4:13 pm    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
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Think about it 6-10 230 plays the point on offense and guard 3s 4s and when LA goes small 5s. He boards blocks shots and runs the point. Who else does that in the league?


Anyone who plays point forward does all of those things. The question is this: How many of those things does Odom do exceptionally well? As the season progresses, we'll find out.


How many point forwards are there in the league today?

I can't think of one. Antoine Walker is probably the closest, but he isn't asked to initiate Miami's offense (I don't think - I haven't actually seen Miami play this year, but I imagine that JWill and Wade are the ones initiating the offense, which is going to run through Shaq in any event).

As far as I can tell, the OP has a point. LO is probably the most versatile player in the league right now. Note to those with reading comprehension issues - most versatile does not mean best all-around. "Versatile" means able to do many things well.

KG is closest in terms of ability, but you'll never see KG playing point forward and running an offense from the perimeter. Sheed is also versatile, but doesn't have near the handles to do anything but shoot from the perimeter. Do those players do other things much better than Odom? Sure. But do they do as many things as well as Odom does? I don't think so.

LO does have to learn how to convert a layup, though. Last night he looked like a 6-10 D-Fish whenever he got in the lane.
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RG73
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2005 4:16 pm    Post subject:

Thugnomoe wrote:
But to say that he's the most versatile? over..say KG..who can bang in the post and step out and even shoot three's..


KG and Odom are both career 30% 3 point shooters. Difference is KG averages about 0.6 attempts per game his career and Odom 2.6 per game. If he'd ditch the three he shoots 48% from the field career (to KG's 49%). If he then took 16 FGAs per game (like KG), and keeping FTAs constant, he'd average right around 20 and basically be putting up a KG stat line. If he'd step in and stop taking 3s (which he can't really shoot anyway), he'd be an all-star. What stands between him and being what he can become is simply not shooting 3 3-attempts a night. And this is a pretty small adjustment that Phil should be able to drill into his head.

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Sheed even comes to mind as being a better shooter and post ability..


Sure, but Rasheed also only shoots 30% from 3, takes 3 a game, and doesn't come with the rebounding or assists. He also lacks aggression to take over a game (but not to get thrown out of a game). If Sheed stepped in, didn't take 3's, he'd average over 20 and over 50% from the field. Big guys making bad decisions and underachieving is not unique to Odom.

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Lamar needs to reach his potential..which I agree..is sky high...but as of now...he's not there... he's not allstar caliber yet..when he drops 18, 8, and 6 consistently... which he is so capable of...then he'll be an allstar...


He can get 18/8/8 easy. All he needs to do is cut out the 3s. No 3s, 15 shot attempts, he'll average 18. And that is even with no right hand. The guy has two more adjustments to make--lose that stupid floater and no 3s. Everyone is piling on him as if its the end of the world and he has 2 adjustments that Phil will drill into him by the end of the season that will give him all-star numbers. I mean we all know Phil is watching the tape and he cringes as much as the rest of us when he sees Lamar brick a 3 or throw up a soft floater. Those are not unfixable problems. Phil will probably start yanking him every time he takes an ill advised 3. Have him work with Kareem when he gets back in town and develop some post game and he'll be fine.
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bmk
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2005 4:41 pm    Post subject:

How a player who has been in the league this long, and has yet to develop any offensive game beside driving to his strong hand, is beyond me. He hasn't even made an all-star team, yet hes the "most versatile" player in the league. Realistically, this means that he does several things average to well, but nothing really very well. Which makes him, overall, and average to above average player. Who's paid like a superstar. Think of it this way, imagine the guy we could have on the roster at his cap price instead.
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J.C. Smith
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2005 9:51 pm    Post subject:

bmk wrote:
How a player who has been in the league this long, and has yet to develop any offensive game beside driving to his strong hand, is beyond me. He hasn't even made an all-star team, yet hes the "most versatile" player in the league. Realistically, this means that he does several things average to well, but nothing really very well. Which makes him, overall, and average to above average player. Who's paid like a superstar. Think of it this way, imagine the guy we could have on the roster at his cap price instead.


I don't believe that Dennis Rodman or Rod Strickland ever made an all-star game, they were two of the best players of their era. So that doesn't mean everything. Lamar deserved to be an all-star two years ago with Miami. Forward is a tough place to make the team though, there are so many good forwards in the league.

FACT is Lamar is one of the leagues best rebounders, he's an okay scorer (not great but okay), he is a 6'10" player who can pass the basketball and plays unselfishly.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2005 9:55 pm    Post subject:

EJtheDJ wrote:
Thugnomoe wrote:
EJ..that's a bold statement...

Odom is okay...2-13 isn't the best shooting percentage..I think we can agree on that...

But to say that he's the most versatile? over..say KG..who can bang in the post and step out and even shoot three's.. Sheed even comes to mind as being a better shooter and post ability..

Lamar needs to reach his potential..which I agree..is sky high...but as of now...he's not there... he's not allstar caliber yet..when he drops 18, 8, and 6 consistently... which he is so capable of...then he'll be an allstar...

I agree its a bold statement, but to ignore what he is capable of is very hard. I also think its foolish for some to harp on his bad shooting so much. He still got 9 boards and 7 dimes with 2 steals. He is going to feel up a stat sheet every night.

To me that says that he will always have an effect on the game. The kid has got one very slick game! And if you look at the numbers he has put up over his career his scoring will come around. As he gets more proficient running the show, I think Phil will start to work him in the post more. His best is yet to come, but I feel its coming.

No 2-13 is not ideal. LOL. But we can also agree that it wont be like that night in and night out.


What he seems incapable of is playing defense. He gets abused inside, and got abused on the perimeter by Carmelo last night.
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shnjb
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2005 10:05 pm    Post subject:

He (bleep) sucks on defense.

As long as Odom is starting at 3 (or 4 for that matter) we'll never win a championship.

We're talking about MARION.
Marion, against good defense, cannot score more than 10 points.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2005 10:18 pm    Post subject:

shnjb wrote:
He (bleep) sucks on defense.


That's an understatement.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2005 10:29 pm    Post subject:

Odom for 3.

Wow.
Does he really think he can shoot threes?
Does he have a brain?
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shnjb
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2005 10:30 pm    Post subject:

Odom shoots the last 3 or 2 shots and misses all of them.

Has this guy ever had a clutch performance?
EVER?
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PayasoLoco
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2005 10:32 pm    Post subject:

shnjb wrote:
Odom shoots the last 3 or 2 shots and misses all of them.

Has this guy ever had a clutch performance?
EVER?


Last year against Minny
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JaySK2
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2005 10:34 pm    Post subject:

yea against the warriors too. you just got owned shnjb
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Worthy42
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2005 10:36 pm    Post subject:

JaySK2 wrote:
yea against the warriors too. you just got owned shnjb


yeah, and don't forget the xmas game against miami
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2005 10:39 pm    Post subject:

Odom's line 2night:


23 points, 16 boards, 8 assists
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shnjb
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2005 10:40 pm    Post subject:

JaySK2 wrote:
yea against the warriors too. you just got owned shnjb


Oh yeah. You got me. Ouch.
:roll:

Owned because someone thinks he had a few clutch performances?
As if there are objective criteria for such subjective things?

Please...
Also, considering the guy has been in the league for 5? 6? years, I'd say he's had a few clutch performances.
Obviously the point was that he just isn't clutch, not that he had NO clutch shot, or clutch sequence in his career.

I was owned. :roll:
Let me guess; you're a high school student.
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JaySK2
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2005 10:41 pm    Post subject:

shnjb wrote:
He (bleep) sucks on defense.

As long as Odom is starting at 3 (or 4 for that matter) we'll never win a championship.

We're talking about MARION.
Marion, against good defense, cannot score more than 10 points.


I guess you failed to see that George guarded Marion most of the time, Odom had pretty good success on him. What he didn't get is help, on pick n rolls and such. Marion scored on dunks, layups and putbacks. Can't blame Odom for most of those, good help defense when Odom slides over to help someone else would of slowed him down tremendously. Odom played Marion damn good head up, while 1 on 1 in the post or what have you Odom showed Marion can't guard him. But Phil never exploited that, why I have no idea.
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JaySK2
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2005 10:44 pm    Post subject:

shnjb wrote:
JaySK2 wrote:
yea against the warriors too. you just got owned shnjb


Oh yeah. You got me. Ouch.
:roll:

Owned because someone thinks he had a few clutch performances?
As if there are objective criteria for such subjective things?

Please...
Also, considering the guy has been in the league for 5? 6? years, I'd say he's had a few clutch performances.
Obviously the point was that he just isn't clutch, not that he had NO clutch shot, or clutch sequence in his career.

I was owned. :roll:
Let me guess; you're a high school student.


What your argument here, he missed shots. Only 1 of the shots he took, IMO was when the Lakers still had a shot to win. That 3, but Kobe missed a 3 right after that when the Lakers were still in the game. The other shots Lamar took, the Suns had already basically won it IMO. Odom has had plenty of clutch performances, just shut up you know nothing about playing ball obviously. Just accept your OWNING like a man...
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JaySK2
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2005 10:46 pm    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
EJtheDJ wrote:
Thugnomoe wrote:
EJ..that's a bold statement...

Odom is okay...2-13 isn't the best shooting percentage..I think we can agree on that...

But to say that he's the most versatile? over..say KG..who can bang in the post and step out and even shoot three's.. Sheed even comes to mind as being a better shooter and post ability..

Lamar needs to reach his potential..which I agree..is sky high...but as of now...he's not there... he's not allstar caliber yet..when he drops 18, 8, and 6 consistently... which he is so capable of...then he'll be an allstar...

I agree its a bold statement, but to ignore what he is capable of is very hard. I also think its foolish for some to harp on his bad shooting so much. He still got 9 boards and 7 dimes with 2 steals. He is going to feel up a stat sheet every night.

To me that says that he will always have an effect on the game. The kid has got one very slick game! And if you look at the numbers he has put up over his career his scoring will come around. As he gets more proficient running the show, I think Phil will start to work him in the post more. His best is yet to come, but I feel its coming.

No 2-13 is not ideal. LOL. But we can also agree that it wont be like that night in and night out.


What he seems incapable of is playing defense. He gets abused inside, and got abused on the perimeter by Carmelo last night.


Carmelo didn't abuse anyone last night, what game were you watching? He only had to play on 1 end, Phil refuses to let Odom abuse guys in the post like Carmelo and Marion. Make them both play D, and I garauntee you they wont have very good nights.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2005 10:52 pm    Post subject:

JaySK2 wrote:
shnjb wrote:
JaySK2 wrote:
yea against the warriors too. you just got owned shnjb


Oh yeah. You got me. Ouch.
:roll:

Owned because someone thinks he had a few clutch performances?
As if there are objective criteria for such subjective things?

Please...
Also, considering the guy has been in the league for 5? 6? years, I'd say he's had a few clutch performances.
Obviously the point was that he just isn't clutch, not that he had NO clutch shot, or clutch sequence in his career.

I was owned. :roll:
Let me guess; you're a high school student.


What your argument here, he missed shots. Only 1 of the shots he took, IMO was when the Lakers still had a shot to win. That 3, but Kobe missed a 3 right after that when the Lakers were still in the game. The other shots Lamar took, the Suns had already basically won it IMO. Odom has had plenty of clutch performances, just shut up you know nothing about playing ball obviously. Just accept your OWNING like a man...



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shnjb
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2005 10:53 pm    Post subject:

JaySK2 wrote:
shnjb wrote:
He (bleep) sucks on defense.

As long as Odom is starting at 3 (or 4 for that matter) we'll never win a championship.

We're talking about MARION.
Marion, against good defense, cannot score more than 10 points.


I guess you failed to see that George guarded Marion most of the time, Odom had pretty good success on him. What he didn't get is help, on pick n rolls and such. Marion scored on dunks, layups and putbacks. Can't blame Odom for most of those, good help defense when Odom slides over to help someone else would of slowed him down tremendously. Odom played Marion damn good head up, while 1 on 1 in the post or what have you Odom showed Marion can't guard him. But Phil never exploited that, why I have no idea.


I guess you are blind, or significantly lacking in neurons.
George did a solid job on Marion.
Odom, on the other hand, let Marion drive past him many times, and let him go backdoor on numerous occasions, getting completely lost in pick-n-roll defense.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2005 10:55 pm    Post subject:

JaySK2 wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
EJtheDJ wrote:
Thugnomoe wrote:
EJ..that's a bold statement...

Odom is okay...2-13 isn't the best shooting percentage..I think we can agree on that...

But to say that he's the most versatile? over..say KG..who can bang in the post and step out and even shoot three's.. Sheed even comes to mind as being a better shooter and post ability..

Lamar needs to reach his potential..which I agree..is sky high...but as of now...he's not there... he's not allstar caliber yet..when he drops 18, 8, and 6 consistently... which he is so capable of...then he'll be an allstar...

I agree its a bold statement, but to ignore what he is capable of is very hard. I also think its foolish for some to harp on his bad shooting so much. He still got 9 boards and 7 dimes with 2 steals. He is going to feel up a stat sheet every night.

To me that says that he will always have an effect on the game. The kid has got one very slick game! And if you look at the numbers he has put up over his career his scoring will come around. As he gets more proficient running the show, I think Phil will start to work him in the post more. His best is yet to come, but I feel its coming.

No 2-13 is not ideal. LOL. But we can also agree that it wont be like that night in and night out.


What he seems incapable of is playing defense. He gets abused inside, and got abused on the perimeter by Carmelo last night.


Carmelo didn't abuse anyone last night, what game were you watching? He only had to play on 1 end, Phil refuses to let Odom abuse guys in the post like Carmelo and Marion. Make them both play D, and I garauntee you they wont have very good nights.


Carmelo didn't abuse us last night only because George was guarding him.
If Odom was guarding him, then it would've been a repeat of the preseason game against Denver, where Carmelo absolutely torched Odom like a Christmas tree.
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EJtheDJ
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2005 10:56 pm    Post subject:

Almost a triple double tonight 23 16 and 8. And he did it all in the flow of the game, almost effortlessly. He scored well tonight, but even had he not shot good, he still would have had 16 boards and 8 assist.

Am I that far off in saying that he has the most versatility in the game?
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2005 10:58 pm    Post subject:

lol, let me school you real quick. George was benched because Marion was abusing him. What game were you watching? Odom did well on Marion head up, but its called help defense on pick n rolls. Its not just about 1 guy, its about help team. You wouldnt know anything about that. George was getting abused by Marion, he is to small. you may want to rewatch the game, ill get the tape for u if you like. and marion didnt "drive" by odom not once to my knowledge. not and finish he didnt, now i know u didnt watch the game. watch all the highlites, its not hard. marion goin off wasnt odoms fault at all. odom did a good job on him
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KwamesMyGuy
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2005 10:58 pm    Post subject:

Odom played good defense on melo and melo missed most of his shots going against odom. to georges credit he made melo turn the ball over and frustrated him.
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