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Rate Kupchak's Tenure as a GM

1. "Do it Mitch" has been an elite GM.

86%

[ 352 ]

2. More like "No harm. No foul". Middle of the pack.

11%

[ 46 ]

3. Kupchak has been a Kupcake. Other GMs eat him for dessert.

[ 10 ]

Total Votes : 408

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venturalakersfan
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Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 11:11 am Post subject:

24 wrote:

yoyojovan wrote:

appears to be hit-or-miss kinda guy.. at first it was miss (shaq trade (we coulda done better than odom and butler for shaq at that time), butler for kwame trade, walton and sasha contracts, brian cook, smush parker, vladi radmanovic, not keeping Fisher the 1st time, not keeping Phil.... then the hits, trading Kwame for Pau, getting artest, not trading Drew or Kobe, signing Barnes, Blake, Ratliff, drafting the 2 new rookies, trading for shannon brown, drafting farmar)... alot of both, but i say hes elite gm

No offense, but I absolutely despise the " he could have gotten more for shaq" canard. OK, tell us what was on the table that he didn't get? And remember, we weren't trading shaq anywhere he didn't want to go. Nobody was going to risk that kind of salary on a disgruntled shaq. Same thing applies to Wade, as in, shaq insisited he not be part of the trade.

My only response on Mitch missing out on trading Shaq was that he waited a year too late to trade him.
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Omar Little
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Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 11:22 am Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:

24 wrote:

yoyojovan wrote:

My only response on Mitch missing out on trading Shaq was that he waited a year too late to trade him.

Now that is an argument I'll listen to, although I also believe that deciding to trade a superstar is a very difficult choice, and not a hasty one. I have a feeling the owner and front office had a lot of angst over that one.
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slippy
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Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 11:28 am Post subject:

Quote:

although I also believe that deciding to trade a superstar is a very difficult choice, and not a hasty one. I have a feeling the owner and front office had a lot of angst over that one.

Absolutely. Plus, it would have been a huge career risk for a budding GM to do that. And I don't think even West would have tried that.

Omar Little
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Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 11:35 am Post subject:

I think given the circumstances, Mitch got excellent value. _________________ “We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel

Mark_in_Tulsa
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Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 11:44 am Post subject:

24 wrote:

I think given the circumstances, Mitch got excellent value.

How could you say he didn't get great value out of it. I mean he took those pieces and turned them around and into a new dynasty in only 3 years.

Little known fact but Mitch's son is this kid.
Click Me
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Omar Little
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Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 11:50 am Post subject:

Mark_in_Tulsa wrote:

24 wrote:

I think given the circumstances, Mitch got excellent value.

I agree. I even give him credit for turning pieces third hand into Gasol. He got useful pieces, gambled with some, and was even able to turn his losses back into gains.
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“We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel

venturalakersfan
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Joined: 14 Apr 2001
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Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 12:32 pm Post subject:

24 wrote:

venturalakersfan wrote:

24 wrote:

yoyojovan wrote:

My only response on Mitch missing out on trading Shaq was that he waited a year too late to trade him.

Yes, it would have been a big decision. But I was convinced at that point that Shaq had seen his best days, and with 2 years before he could opt out, teams wouldn't have shyed away from trading for him. I don't remember if you were here then, but I was a big proponent of trading him then.
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Cup-of-noodles
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Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 1:15 pm Post subject:

Snack who ??

postandpivot
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Joined: 16 Sep 2003
Posts: 36822

Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 1:55 pm Post subject:

44TheLogo wrote:

kevin wrote:

44TheLogo wrote:

Mistakes:
Luke Walton contract
Sasha Vujacic contract
Caron Butler for Kwame Brown

Successes:
Kwame Brown, JCritt, Marc Gasol for Pau Gasol
Vladimir Radmanovic for Shannon Brown & Adam Morrison
Maurice Evans + Brian Cook for Trevor Ariza
Drafting Andrew Bynum
Not trading Kobe for pu pu platter
Not trading Bynum for Jason Kidd
Signing Ron Artest

TBD:
Signing Steve Blake (likely success)
Decisions on Fisher, Shannon Brown, Jordan Farmar, Mbenga, Powell
Drafting Ebanks/Caracter (looking like a HUGE success)

He's an elite GM. Really nobody I'd rather have at the helm of the ship than Mitch because let's face it, the rings speak for themselves.

Is Caron really a mistake if it lead to a success, eventually?

And what about trading Shaq?

at the time there was no way he could have known pau was going to be available. you can't judge it as a success - at the time it was a mistake.

the shaq trade is questionable. Miami won the championship the next season. It led to a few seasons of intense agony in not even making the playoffs, and first round playoff exits. I suppose that in the long term it made us a more viable team so I'll give that one a success as well.

you make the decision to tank to some extent really quickly vs sit on the fence and be pretty good for a long time but never good enough. you tank, without tanking basically not having the pieces to put together. save buss tons of money, while people come out to watch in droves STILL. You do know the Gm's job isn't just ships its also making money for the owner.

so you save buss some chips for 2 years straight. while still getting top dollar at the ticket booth= ELITE GM, when you flip that like a coin and turn back into a for real contender over night. dont lose your star to the "TRADE ME" anxiety attacks they all get when you won before and now you're losing.

and next thing you know. we have back 2 back ships before anyone could say Kupkup.

lastly the fact that mitch's team is already ready for the miami legion of doom = mitch is the GOAT Gm in a league with 30teams, crazy Free agency, luxury tax rules, and a bad economy.

Omar Little
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Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 1:57 pm Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:

24 wrote:

venturalakersfan wrote:

24 wrote:

yoyojovan wrote:

My only response on Mitch missing out on trading Shaq was that he waited a year too late to trade him.

Yes I was, and I remember. I just think that given the salary, the attitude, the lack of conditioning, etc., it would have been a similarly difficult feat. No one would have taken him unless he agreed to go, and that would have been a similarly small number of teams.

Bottom line, three starting caliber players for one, two of whom are still starter quality in the league now, wasn't half bad. Oh, and a first round pick as well.
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babyskyhook
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Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 2:06 pm Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:

24 wrote:

venturalakersfan wrote:

24 wrote:

yoyojovan wrote:

My only response on Mitch missing out on trading Shaq was that he waited a year too late to trade him.

I give you credit for your foresight Ventura, but I wouldn't have done it. Shaq was still the most dominant player in the NBA, even though he was starting to slip. If Malone's knee hadn't gotten hurt in '04, LA would have had another title. That would have been worth it to me.

I think most people in and out of the league felt like in summer '03 Shaq was a lot closer to being the most dominant than he was to being in the "we should dump him before his value drops too low" category.

And not coincidentally, it was only after Shaq had insulted BUss in HI the previous fall, Ben Wallace guarded him one on one in the Finals and Kobe opted out that Shaq was traded.

It takes a lot to trade a guy who is that good, because if the right role players had been signed, that team could have won 5 or 6 in a row instead of 3.

I have no problem with LA waiting until '04 to trade him.

babyskyhook
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Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 2:10 pm Post subject:

24 wrote:

I think given the circumstances, Mitch got excellent value.

Absolutely. The "we should have gotten more for Shaq" nonsense is posted by the same people who were saying Lefraud would be coming here this summer for the mle, or that we should trade Sasha and Luke for CP3.

THEY HAVE NO BASIS IN REALITY.

babyskyhook
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Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 2:14 pm Post subject:

postandpivot wrote:

44TheLogo wrote:

kevin wrote:

44TheLogo wrote:

Is Caron really a mistake if it lead to a success, eventually?

And what about trading Shaq?

Absolutely- and for 44 to say the shaq trade was questionable completely ignores the fact that Kobe would have left if Shaq wasn't moved. It was a very clear choice- the young guy who works harder than anyone else or the older guy with the terrible work ethic.

Shaq got one more title, but Lakers now have 2 more, and are much better positioned to win more with KObe than they would have ben if they retained Shaq. KObe is still a franchise player. Shaq has been a journeyman for the last 3-4 years.

Omar Little
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Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 2:16 pm Post subject:

babyskyhook wrote:

24 wrote:

I think given the circumstances, Mitch got excellent value.

More to the point, they can't give you any examples of someone getting more in a similar situation.
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babyskyhook
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Location: The Garden Island

Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 2:23 pm Post subject:

24 wrote:

babyskyhook wrote:

24 wrote:

I think given the circumstances, Mitch got excellent value.

More to the point, they can't give you any examples of someone getting more in a similar situation.

And they can't give any realistic examples of what the lakers could have gotten that was better than Odom and BUtler.

Dennis_D
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Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 2:35 pm Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:

My only response on Mitch missing out on trading Shaq was that he waited a year too late to trade him.

I would guess that Mitch was thinking about trading Shaq, but then Malone and Payton showed up at his front door wanting in. At that point, all Mitch could do was wind up the rubber band one more time and try for a championship.

babyskyhook
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Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 3:16 pm Post subject:

Dennis_D wrote:

venturalakersfan wrote:

My only response on Mitch missing out on trading Shaq was that he waited a year too late to trade him.

Yeah- you're definitely not trading him at that point.

LuxuryClown
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Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 3:18 pm Post subject:

Good Lawd ! I give Kupcach an A+ for giving away Farmar

JerryMagicKobe
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Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 5:42 pm Post subject:

Dennis_D wrote:

venturalakersfan wrote:

My only response on Mitch missing out on trading Shaq was that he waited a year too late to trade him.

And the timing of it all made it difficult to trade Shaq. That summer, after the Lakers were eliminated, Payton and Malone made their intentions clear, which made the decision to keep Shaq pretty easy considering the uncertainty of Kobe's future. Allowing time for more facts to come to light in Kobe's case made keeping Shaq, or at least waiting to trade him the logical move. The decision to trade him was made by Buss near the deadline after realizing that Kobe's charges were pretty flimsy, but at that point the Lakers looked like a legit contender despite the obvious problems. Most thought they would win, and were it not for the most egregious example of referee bias and Malone's injury, they would have won it all. Trading Shaq right after winning the 'chip would have been awesome though, and the Mitch hate about 10 times stronger. Ultimately, every other team had a shot to get Shaq, and Miami's trade was the best option avaliable.

24_is_a_retard
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Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 9:09 pm Post subject:

Quote:

24 - Calling for dissection to end as JMK does is then equally childish.

i concur. let's see what he's saying about today's moves, shall we?

moonriver24
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Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 9:47 pm Post subject:

No more doubt. _________________ Kobe's Top 5 Dunks, 81 points, MJ last gm @Staples

LakerEric
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Posts: 7193
Location: Vegas

Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 10:04 pm Post subject:

Rodman28 wrote:

kevin wrote:

Rodman28 wrote:

Middle of the road.

There's a lot of room for improvement.

So, based upon your "room for improvement" theory, what team has made moves where there isn't a lot of room? They're near perfect. As is.

I'm finding it quite funn that my opinion bothers you SO MUCH, you had to start a thread.

- I think he gives out too many lenghty contracts that continue to hurt us.

- He hasn't been much of a 1st round drafter.

I think the GM for the Spurs and Thunder are much better, in my opinion.

Again, you started a poll and asked a question- I answered them both. Do me a favor and don't come whining at me because you don't agree with what I have to say.

I think Fisher can help Blake out, but a 3 yr deal at his age is a little asaine.

How many titles do they have compared to Mitch?

LA_Lakers_Rule
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Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 10:27 pm Post subject:

I've argued for YEARS that Mitch was easily a TOP-10 GM in the NBA only to be vehemently rebuffed by a great number of people on this board suggesting that I was basically an "idiot" for even suggesting this.... .... Hmmmm..... seems based on the results of THIS poll with 86% voting for Mitch as an "elite" GM that I'm happy to say that MY POV has clearly finally been vindicated.... _________________ Rule = win titles Good judgment comes from experience and a lot of that comes from bad judgment. - Will Rogers ...

Omar Little
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Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 10:28 pm Post subject:

24_is_a_retard wrote:

Quote:

24 - Calling for dissection to end as JMK does is then equally childish.

i concur. let's see what he's saying about today's moves, shall we?

Huh? Nice sock puppet there mambahunter. See you in a few days.
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The Big Shaqtus
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Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 6:20 am Post subject:

Time to have an honest discussion about this guy and what a yes man he's been to Jimbo.

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