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Rate Kupchak's Tenure as a GM

1. "Do it Mitch" has been an elite GM.

86%

[ 352 ]

2. More like "No harm. No foul". Middle of the pack.

11%

[ 46 ]

3. Kupchak has been a Kupcake. Other GMs eat him for dessert.

[ 10 ]

Total Votes : 408

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kevin
Star Player

Joined: 28 Jun 2007
Posts: 8031
Location: Los Angeles

Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 3:39 pm Post subject:

Fallout wrote:

Lets put it in perspective, how many GM's built a multi-champion team last 10 years? That puts him in elite category.

According to a few in this thread, Mitch didn't. It was all the doings of others in the Lakers org.

Mitch was only responsible for all the bad moves in the past 10 years.

activeverb
Retired Number

Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 37470

Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 3:43 pm Post subject:

Kobe Jocker wrote:

Sub-par GM

GP + Malone happened because of LA's talent

Gasol happened because Kobe went off, and Buss got involved.

Artest happend because of Kobe.

Ariza & brown were salary dumps.

Mitch signed Geroge, Luke, Vlad, Sasha, and now Blake as his big FAs.

Didn't want Bynum, wanted Sean Mays

I don't buy this type of analysis. You assume all the bad stuff is Mitch's fault and he had no hand in any of the good, but the reality is none of us knows really knows who in the Lakers organization contributed what to each individual decision. I think the only reasonable way to rate a GM is as the face of the organization, and evaluate the sum total of the organizations moves under his tenure. Otherwise you're just guessing.

Wags_16
Star Player

Joined: 25 Nov 2005
Posts: 3684
Location: East Bay, CA

Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 3:45 pm Post subject:

Kobe Jocker wrote:

Wags_16 wrote:

Kobe Jocker wrote:

And what are you doing for a living....I rest my case!

I run my own successful company, and live a nice life out here in Redondo Beach. How about you?

I own ocean-front property in Arizona....

Rodman28
Star Player

Joined: 21 Dec 2009
Posts: 5502

Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 3:46 pm Post subject:

lakerhi wrote:

Rodman28 wrote:

kevin wrote:

Rodman28 wrote:

Middle of the road.

There's a lot of room for improvement.

So, based upon your "room for improvement" theory, what team has made moves where there isn't a lot of room? They're near perfect. As is.

I'm finding it quite funn that my opinion bothers you SO MUCH, you had to start a thread.

- I think he gives out too many lenghty contracts that continue to hurt us.

- He hasn't been much of a 1st round drafter.

I think the GM for the Spurs and Thunder are much better, in my opinion.

Again, you started a poll and asked a question- I answered them both. Do me a favor and don't come whining at me because you don't agree with what I have to say.

I think Fisher can help Blake out, but a 3 yr deal at his age is a little asaine.

I totally agree but I think that they did the 3 year deal to satisfy fisher since he didn't get the amout of money he really wanted.

kupcake has been kupcake....as i previous stated below and other posters too...

Considering that we scouted Tayshaun. All of our scouts loved him. Mitch had his guy, who went earlier, and took the highest name on the board. I don't think scouts make it into the war room. Only people that know how to work a draft board.

Our scouts never, at any time, had Kareem Rush in the gym. Probably never saw any of his games. Kareem was shocked he was picked by the Lakers. He never worked out with us. The same with Brian Cook. Never was worked out. Just taken. Kind of like pulling a name out of a hat. That year, we had scouted Barbosa. Ron Harper personally worked him out. Ever since those screw ups, Mitch has listened to Ronnie Lester, who had scouted Andrew Bynum. Mitch wanted Sean May, Ronnie wanted Bynum. Ronnie got Jimmy to back the pick; and Mitch was overrode. Ever since then I think Lester is the one who is drafting the players. Compare then and the years before and I think you'll see a big difference.

Kupchak doesn't know how to draft. Remember he likes to draft players on the west coast. I remember the day of the Rush pick, from all reports on the board and newspaper, they were slated to pick Prince. But when Rush fell to them, Kupchak picked him. Kupchak stated he was the highest rated player on the board when they picked him. Though Phil thought they were picking Prince, since they worked him out and after the pick was made Phil said "who is this guy. don't know anything about him." Now talking about a ringing endorsement from your coach.

Also, the pick of Cook and Walton, Kupchak reason was they are the same type of players that they are letting go. Horry to Cook and Rick Fox to Walton. What type of reasoning is this. Don't you pick the best available player available?

And the Ron Harper really liked Barbosa after he worked him out.

Also have to add that Stu Lantz saw Montra Ellis play and begged the Lakers front office to take him. I mean if Stu can find a player what does this say about Kupchak.

And for everyone who thinks that kupcake was the one who made the Gasol trade, think again. Or should I put it this way, didn't you notice that after Jerry West contract was up with Memphis, the Lakers all of a sudden makes great trades? Gasol and if I'm not mistaken Ariza?

And didn't West who was interviewed before said he didn't want the spotlight and all the pressure that comes with it. He wanted to work behind the scenes where there's not much pressure. And who was the one who gave Kobe the MVP trophy? Jerry West. And this year when the Lakers got their Championship Trophy, kupcake didn't give a speech and was only in the background. Wouldn't you think the GM would at least be interviewed? And this offseason, if the rumors are true they had a deadline to accept the deal. This has Jerry West written all of this or at very least, Lester.

Not only the above but when there's a major decision isn't kupcake in europe or using his magic wand?

Like my friends and I keep saying Lester should be the GM instead of Kupchak.

I know it may be a lot to digest but I think there is no way kupcake is doing this if you look at his track record before West contract was up in Memphis.

Remeber this too, that Jerry West will always Love the Lakers.

Thank you, at least someone finally gets it.
_________________
*On Thin Ice*

I guess I am kind of injury prone.- Andrew Bynum

These young guys are playing checkers. I'm out there playing chess.- Kobe Bryant

heatseeker08
Star Player

Joined: 30 Mar 2008
Posts: 1194

Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 3:46 pm Post subject:

Mr. Zero wrote:

3 finals in 3 years, 2 championships. 1 solid move. PAU GASOL.

_________________
Ron Artest: "SAY QUEENSBRIDGE"

JerryMagicKobe
Moderator

Joined: 28 Jul 2005
Posts: 15100

Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 3:48 pm Post subject:

What GMs have done a better job than Mitch over his tenure as Laker GM? Drafts, trades, results - everything. So far I've heard Buford and Presti. Even if I pretend that I can't tear them down at least as much as Mitch, then that still leaves Mitch as #3 out of 30 current GMs, not to mention that he ranks higher than those who have been fired last in the last decade. Top 10% is elite, no?

Wags_16
Star Player

Joined: 25 Nov 2005
Posts: 3684
Location: East Bay, CA

Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 3:49 pm Post subject:

Kobe Jocker wrote:

I'm more of a Jerry Buss type. You can catch me at casinos playing poker, or with the ladies doing such and such.

The internet legend grows....

Rodman28
Star Player

Joined: 21 Dec 2009
Posts: 5502

Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 3:49 pm Post subject:

Here's what I don't get: A poll was started and questions were asked. A few people stated their opinion and answered the poll, going against the popular opinion that Mitch is God of the GMs. Why are people getting so upset and uptight, JUST because they don't agree? What's the point of having a poll if you can't handle different answers/opinions. It's beyond comical. THIS is why we need an ignore button. _________________ On Thin Ice I guess I am kind of injury prone.- Andrew Bynum These young guys are playing checkers. I'm out there playing chess.- Kobe Bryant

Wags_16
Star Player

Joined: 25 Nov 2005
Posts: 3684
Location: East Bay, CA

Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 3:53 pm Post subject:

Rodman28 wrote:

Here's what I don't get:

A poll was started and questions were asked. A few people stated their opinion and answered the poll, going against the popular opinion that Mitch is God of the GMs. Why are people getting so upset and uptight, JUST because they don't agree?

What's the point of having a poll if you can't handle different answers/opinions. It's beyond comical.

THIS is why we need an ignore button.

Well my question is if they could name a better personnel guy in the last 10 years or so....

JerryMagicKobe
Moderator

Joined: 28 Jul 2005
Posts: 15100

Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 3:54 pm Post subject:

Rodman28 wrote:

Don't be so hard on yourself. We don't want to IGNORE you, just keep posting which GMs besides Buford and Presti have clearly done better than Mitch during his tenure. It should be easy.

Hector the Pup
Retired Number

Joined: 25 Jul 2002
Posts: 35946
Location: L.A.

Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 3:57 pm Post subject:

Rodman28 wrote:

I'm sure if the dissenting opinions contained any logic that would not be the case, but when they all can simply be summed up as 'he sucks and anything good that happened under his watch was either because of someone else or just plain dumb luck', it's hard to respect those opinions.

Rodman28
Star Player

Joined: 21 Dec 2009
Posts: 5502

Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 3:58 pm Post subject:

JerryMagicKobe wrote:

Rodman28 wrote:

Don't be so hard on yourself. We don't want to IGNORE you, just keep posting which GMs besides Buford and Presti have clearly done better than Mitch during his tenure. It should be easy.

Oh, so after being asked to name which GM's I thought were better, and doing so, NOW I'm being ask to name GM's BESIDES the ones I initially named?!?

Classic LG!

_________________
*On Thin Ice*

I guess I am kind of injury prone.- Andrew Bynum

These young guys are playing checkers. I'm out there playing chess.- Kobe Bryant

Rodman28
Star Player

Joined: 21 Dec 2009
Posts: 5502

Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 4:01 pm Post subject:

Hector the Pup wrote:

Rodman28 wrote:

I never said those words at all.

I gave my reasons (Bad drafter, contract giver), backed up with facts (Vujacic, Farmar, Cook, etc/Vujacic and Walton contracts), and most disagreed.

I'm not sure what else anyone could say on a respectable level?
_________________
*On Thin Ice*

I guess I am kind of injury prone.- Andrew Bynum

These young guys are playing checkers. I'm out there playing chess.- Kobe Bryant

JerryMagicKobe
Moderator

Joined: 28 Jul 2005
Posts: 15100

Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 4:04 pm Post subject:

lakerhi wrote:

Rodman28 wrote:

kevin wrote:

Rodman28 wrote:

Middle of the road.

There's a lot of room for improvement.

So, based upon your "room for improvement" theory, what team has made moves where there isn't a lot of room? They're near perfect. As is.

I'm finding it quite funn that my opinion bothers you SO MUCH, you had to start a thread.

This might be the most conspiratorial of all the 'Mitch is a puppet' posts in the history of LG! Congratulations!

I'm so happy that Jerry West is still running the Lakers, although I can't imagine why such a brilliant guy like hime would allow Mitch to just hang around drolling on himself for 26 years. Oh well, at least Ronnie Lester is solid despite having to 'learn' from Mitch...Weird.

JerryMagicKobe
Moderator

Joined: 28 Jul 2005
Posts: 15100

Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 4:20 pm Post subject:

Rodman28 wrote:

JerryMagicKobe wrote:

Rodman28 wrote:

Don't be so hard on yourself. We don't want to IGNORE you, just keep posting which GMs besides Buford and Presti have clearly done better than Mitch during his tenure. It should be easy.

Oh, so after being asked to name which GM's I thought were better, and doing so, NOW I'm being ask to name GM's BESIDES the ones I initially named?!?

Classic LG!

If you believe that 2 GMs are better than Mitch, then Mitch is 3rd, right? 3rd of 30 = Top 10%. Top 10% = elite. I'm just wondering where our disconnect is...

rwongega
Franchise Player

Joined: 20 Jul 2005
Posts: 20510
Location: UCLA -> NY

Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 4:27 pm Post subject:

Rough start but if you turn Kwame Brown into a Pau Gasol, you aren't a GM, you're an freaking magician.

Ode to Triple Ocho
Star Player

Joined: 11 Feb 2010
Posts: 1610

Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 4:31 pm Post subject:

44TheLogo wrote:

Mistakes:
Luke Walton contract
Sasha Vujacic contract
Caron Butler for Kwame Brown

D. George's contract
Drafting Brian Cook and Kareem Rush
Standing Pat after 2002 and using the line "if aint broke why fix it" only to watch their bench get destroyed the following year
Vlad's contract. Although he recovered from that.

44TheLogo wrote:

Successes:
Kwame Brown, JCritt, Marc Gasol for Pau Gasol
Vladimir Radmanovic for Shannon Brown & Adam Morrison
Maurice Evans + Brian Cook for Trevor Ariza
Drafting Andrew Bynum
Not trading Kobe for pu pu platter
Not trading Bynum for Jason Kidd
Signing Ron Artest

Bynum would have never been drafted if Jimmy didn't step it. Giving Mitch credit for that is a huge reach considering he wanted May.

44TheLogo wrote:

He's an elite GM. Really nobody I'd rather have at the helm of the ship than Mitch because let's face it, the rings speak for themselves.

Hilarious considering the guy in your avatar was more responsible for the Gasol trade than Mitch.

Last edited by Ode to Triple Ocho on Mon Jul 12, 2010 4:32 pm; edited 1 time in total

OshadowO
Star Player

Joined: 22 Feb 2003
Posts: 7356

Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 4:31 pm Post subject:

Considering some of the opinions here you'd think Dr. Buss would just fire Mitch to save money. The guy must be doing something right for him to still have his job.

Fallout
Star Player

Joined: 03 Jun 2002
Posts: 7626

Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 4:39 pm Post subject:

Didn't West said he had nothing to do with the Gasol trade? _________________ The journey to 17 begins...

Hector the Pup
Retired Number

Joined: 25 Jul 2002
Posts: 35946
Location: L.A.

Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 4:42 pm Post subject:

Fallout wrote:

Didn't West said he had nothing to do with the Gasol trade?

Yes, but that's irrelevant, even though he was retired and not even living in Memphis at the time, much less with any input into the team.

Just makes it sound better.

And just to put a bow on it all, Kerr was the reason Amare was traded to New York and Danny Ferry orchestrated the Lebron trade to Miami.

oldandpurpleandgold
Star Player

Joined: 01 Feb 2010
Posts: 3788

Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 4:43 pm Post subject:

Gasol makes him elite, then again Memphis was the idiot kid in the corner...I think Kupchak is probably an even better GM than we think...he's got to navigate the Buss waters and the Jackson waters...not to mention the Kobe waters. Through it all he's managed to build a winner. We're lucky to have him. _________________ Kobe, on the other hand; RELISHES the injuries and just looks at it as evening the playing field.

Hector the Pup
Retired Number

Joined: 25 Jul 2002
Posts: 35946
Location: L.A.

Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 4:44 pm Post subject:

OshadowO wrote:

Considering some of the opinions here you'd think Dr. Buss would just fire Mitch to save money. The guy must be doing something right for him to still have his job.

Just another example of Mitch being lucky I guess.

kevin
Star Player

Joined: 28 Jun 2007
Posts: 8031
Location: Los Angeles

Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 4:46 pm Post subject:

So.... from what I've read Buford is the only GM with a magic wand?

babyskyhook
Franchise Player

Joined: 15 Jul 2009
Posts: 18492
Location: The Garden Island

Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 4:56 pm Post subject:

Hector the Pup wrote:

Started out as mediocre but over the years has improved to elite level.

Can't complain about anything he has done in the last 3 years.

I think there's a reason for that.

When Mitch was first GM during the 3peat, I believe Phil had a lot of say over who was drafted and MItch wasn't really making the moves he wanted to.

They consistently picked "safe" players who had been in school for 4 years because Phil wasn't going to play or develop young guys. He wanted the rookies to be as experienced and as close to finished products as possible.

Brian Cook, KAreem Rush, Mark MAdsen- all the same type of player.

what did Mitch do in 2004- his first draft after Phil was let go ?

He took a risk and went in completely the other direction- he drafted a european player- Sasha.

Now Sasha is who he is, but I was glad when MItch drafted him that the Lakers had gotten back in the business of taking risks with their picks to get high upside players from overseas like the Spurs had done with Manu and Parker, and which the Lakers had pioneered with the Vlade pick in the late '80's.

2005- Bynum- again, a high upside pick, along with Luke and Rony- 2 excellent 2nd round picks.

2006- Farmar

2007- upside picks with Critt in the 1st and Mark Gasol in 2nd

2010 2nd rounders- both players with minor off-cpurt issues which caused their stock to slip. Mitch picked them based on their talent. Upside picks.

Kwame for Pau- Mitch was aggressive and got it done before a lot of teams could jump into the process. Very well played. Dr Buss agreed to take on the $$$ but Mitch got it done while the league was asleep.

Trevor for Cook, resigning Fisher after leaving Utah, trading for Shannon (whom Mitch had liked since draft day 2006) as part of the Vlad Rad salary dump. High upside moves.

So has Mitch made mistakes with Sasha, Vlad and Luke's contracts ?

Yes- but every gm makes mistakes, and those are Mitch's only mis-steps since Phil left in '04.

I don't think that's a coincidence.

Mitch is an elite GM.

babyskyhook
Franchise Player

Joined: 15 Jul 2009
Posts: 18492
Location: The Garden Island

Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 4:58 pm Post subject:

Hector the Pup wrote:

Fallout wrote:

Didn't West said he had nothing to do with the Gasol trade?

I thought Ted Stepien did that- it had his fingerprints all over it.

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