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revgen
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 7:17 pm    Post subject:

Justwar wrote:
His big man skills are just fine. He's just being doubled and tripled. Wait till teams that will try to match up one on one see. People just see what they wanna see. If he's not a laker it seems that they must suck.


You are right. People do see what they want to see.

Some people don't want to see that Caracter was doubled in the Nuggets and Knicks games too. Yet he shot over 50FG% in both games.

Your excuses are wearing thin. We could just agree that Cousins has way more upside than Caracter does. Yet you keep wanting to argue a point with no substance to back it up.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 7:18 pm    Post subject:

revgen wrote:
Justwar wrote:
Not worth arguing. In the end Caracter will play the Powell role, while Cousins is a franchise player.

^Cousins has superior upside and definitely should be groomed as a franchise player. But right now he's a big man who's game primarily revolves around guard skills. His big man skills need more work.

Which is something the 22 year old Caracter has developed that the 19 year old Cousins is still working on. Once Cousins develops into a big man I agree that he will be better than Caracter, who IMO has reached most of his potential as far as the offensive end goes.


Disagree that Caracter has reached most of his potential offensively. Right now, he doesn't have a faceup game, which if he develops, will eliminate most of the turnovers, because he won't have to drive into traffic.

Cousins is the superior talent no doubt. He's taller so he can read the doubles easier, which is why he gets assists, instead of turnovers, and his D is already better.
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ABynum17
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 7:20 pm    Post subject:

revgen wrote:
Justwar wrote:
His big man skills are just fine. He's just being doubled and tripled. Wait till teams that will try to match up one on one see. People just see what they wanna see. If he's not a laker it seems that they must suck.


You are right. People do see what they want to see.

Some people don't want to see that Caracter was doubled in the Nuggets and Knicks games too. Yet he shot over 50FG% in both games.

Your excuses are wearing thin. We could just agree that Cousins has way more upside than Caracter does. Yet you keep wanting to argue a point with no substance to back it up.


Caracter also turned the ball over a lot though, so you can't just go by FG%
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 7:21 pm    Post subject:

ABynum17 wrote:
He's taller so he can read the doubles easier, which is why he gets assists, instead of turnovers, and his D is already better.
Well they play different positions don't they? Is cousins any bigger/stronger than the average C than DC is vs other PFs?
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 7:22 pm    Post subject:

ABynum17 wrote:
revgen wrote:
Justwar wrote:
His big man skills are just fine. He's just being doubled and tripled. Wait till teams that will try to match up one on one see. People just see what they wanna see. If he's not a laker it seems that they must suck.


You are right. People do see what they want to see.

Some people don't want to see that Caracter was doubled in the Nuggets and Knicks games too. Yet he shot over 50FG% in both games.

Your excuses are wearing thin. We could just agree that Cousins has way more upside than Caracter does. Yet you keep wanting to argue a point with no substance to back it up.


Caracter also turned the ball over a lot though, so you can't just go by FG%


He also had 4 blocks. He should have had quite a good # of assists for good passes that the other guys missed, too.
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revgen
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 7:23 pm    Post subject:

ABynum17 wrote:
revgen wrote:
Justwar wrote:
Not worth arguing. In the end Caracter will play the Powell role, while Cousins is a franchise player.

^Cousins has superior upside and definitely should be groomed as a franchise player. But right now he's a big man who's game primarily revolves around guard skills. His big man skills need more work.

Which is something the 22 year old Caracter has developed that the 19 year old Cousins is still working on. Once Cousins develops into a big man I agree that he will be better than Caracter, who IMO has reached most of his potential as far as the offensive end goes.


Disagree that Caracter has reached most of his potential offensively. Right now, he doesn't have a faceup game, which if he develops, will eliminate most of the turnovers, because he won't have to drive into traffic.

Cousins is the superior talent no doubt. He's taller so he can read the doubles easier, which is why he gets assists, instead of turnovers, and his D is already better.

^I said most of his potential offensively. Sure a better jumper can help, but for the most part what you see is what you get right now.

He really needs to become more aware defensively, which is typical of most young players.

Cousins had assists, but he had more TO's than assists. Not exactly efficient. If Cousins D was better than why did he have 2 blocks to Caracter's 4 and why did Caracter score 14 points on 6-9?
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Last edited by revgen on Tue Jul 13, 2010 7:28 pm; edited 3 times in total
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 7:25 pm    Post subject:

ABynum17 wrote:
revgen wrote:
Justwar wrote:
His big man skills are just fine. He's just being doubled and tripled. Wait till teams that will try to match up one on one see. People just see what they wanna see. If he's not a laker it seems that they must suck.


You are right. People do see what they want to see.

Some people don't want to see that Caracter was doubled in the Nuggets and Knicks games too. Yet he shot over 50FG% in both games.

Your excuses are wearing thin. We could just agree that Cousins has way more upside than Caracter does. Yet you keep wanting to argue a point with no substance to back it up.


Caracter also turned the ball over a lot though, so you can't just go by FG%


He had just as many TO's as Cousins had.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 7:30 pm    Post subject:

uberzev wrote:
revgen wrote:
Caracter, who IMO has reached most of his potential as far as the offensive end goes.
Really? Maybe as a pure scorer but he could certainly become a triangle passer and outside shooter.

Look at how Pau has elevated his overall play later in his career despite already having all those skills.


Like I said, most of his potential has been reached. He's a 22 year kid who's postup game is pretty much developed and his jumpshot is okay, but could be better. He's already a pretty good outlet passer.

Most of his development improvements need to come on the defensive end moreso than the offensive end.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 7:47 pm    Post subject:

uberzev wrote:
Runway8 wrote:
No double double today for Caracter. Didn't watch it, was he outplayed by Cousins?
Maybe but he shot 6/9 vs. 8/20 for the Bynum hater.


I don't think Caracter was outplayed at all. They started the first half both having strong halfs. In the late 2nd quarter and for the rest of the game, the Laker guards went "And 1" and they stopped running the offense. Caracter only had 9 shots. They weren't passing him the ball.

Caracters rebounding was not good tonight, BUT before today he was 3rd in rebounding during the summer league and Sims was an absolute monster on the boards. There was maybe 3 rebounds more that Caracter should have had, but give a lot of credit to Sims for rebounding so well.

As far as guarding Cousins, Caracter did very well. Cousins shot 40% and let's remember, in the NBA Caracter is more of a PF than a C. Cousins is going to be VERY good, but Cousins is more of a true center. So all in all, I would say Caracter did decent considering he had to guard a center.

Lastly, take a look at the minutes, Caracter played far more minutes than anybody else on the court. The guards really kept him uninvolved in the 3rd and 4th quarters but he was still running. He got 4 minutes of rest and still held up very well. His conditioning is AMAZING for a guy his size. He has come a long way from the 300 pounds he played at last year.

I am satisfied with Caracter. He is going to keep working and he will get better especially once he gets used to his new playing weight. I hope he makes the team because he will be ready to contribute off the bench by as early as early as next year. We do not want to let this guy go.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 7:58 pm    Post subject:

Quote:
@coachthorpe As Caracter learns to play with his new body, he can really elevate his game. No pun


What he said
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 8:13 pm    Post subject:

winless so far, are you effing kidding me !? ship all their asses out !
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 8:13 pm    Post subject:

I can't wait for Bynum to squash Cousins. Repeatedly.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 8:15 pm    Post subject:

SP_Fever wrote:
winless so far, are you effing kidding me !? ship all their asses out !
I think we were undefeated last year.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 8:16 pm    Post subject:

Justwar wrote:
His big man skills are just fine. He's just being doubled and tripled. Wait till teams that will try to match up one on one see. People just see what they wanna see. If he's not a laker it seems that they must suck.


unfortunately for cousin, all the center in the NBA are either more brute than caracter, or freakishly tall (7' and over)... he's not gonna get double, lol. Its gonna be 1 on 1. we'll see how he do in the NBA.

He went 8-20 being guard by a PF... that's not good.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 8:20 pm    Post subject:

Justwar wrote:
lakersfan22 wrote:
Runway8 wrote:
No double double today for Caracter. Didn't watch it, was he outplayed by Cousins?
They were about even. Caracter was much more efficient. Cousins had more rebounds. They both had a block on each other. But you wouldnt tell that there were 53 spots apart.



Come on now. Cousins was a lot better then Caracter. Caracter was good, but Cousins looked like a top pick while Caracter looked like a late 1st. Not a put down, just truth. Caracter is going to have some issues rebounding and being physical in the league.


Cousins looked terrific, but lets not over-state things. Caracter IS a physical player and he'll continue to be a physical player. He's no smaller than a lot of pretty good PFs out there ... Boozer, Landry, Millsap, etc., and he's more athletic than some of them. Plus, it's not like 6'9" and 270 is tiny for a PF, and yet he's still agile and quick at that size.

I think you're understating what he's shown thus far because you have it in the back of your mind that he was a late 2nd round pick. Forget all that and actually watch the games. He's held his own and even out-performed much higher picks, and was even killing those guys in pre-draft workouts. That's not by accident and those players are the guys he will ultimately be facing in the NBA. Drafting isn't a science and we'll have to see how things play out, but it won't be the first time teams call it right ... or wrong.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 8:23 pm    Post subject:

rock0100 wrote:
uberzev wrote:
Runway8 wrote:
No double double today for Caracter. Didn't watch it, was he outplayed by Cousins?
Maybe but he shot 6/9 vs. 8/20 for the Bynum hater.


I don't think Caracter was outplayed at all. They started the first half both having strong halfs. In the late 2nd quarter and for the rest of the game, the Laker guards went "And 1" and they stopped running the offense. Caracter only had 9 shots. They weren't passing him the ball.

Caracters rebounding was not good tonight, BUT before today he was 3rd in rebounding during the summer league and Sims was an absolute monster on the boards. There was maybe 3 rebounds more that Caracter should have had, but give a lot of credit to Sims for rebounding so well.

As far as guarding Cousins, Caracter did very well. Cousins shot 40% and let's remember, in the NBA Caracter is more of a PF than a C. Cousins is going to be VERY good, but Cousins is more of a true center. So all in all, I would say Caracter did decent considering he had to guard a center.

Lastly, take a look at the minutes, Caracter played far more minutes than anybody else on the court. The guards really kept him uninvolved in the 3rd and 4th quarters but he was still running. He got 4 minutes of rest and still held up very well. His conditioning is AMAZING for a guy his size. He has come a long way from the 300 pounds he played at last year.

I am satisfied with Caracter. He is going to keep working and he will get better especially once he gets used to his new playing weight. I hope he makes the team because he will be ready to contribute off the bench by as early as early as next year. We do not want to let this guy go.


It is amazing how he holds up out there for so many minutes on the floor playing HARD....and BACK to BACK games!!!
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 8:47 pm    Post subject:

ABynum17 wrote:
revgen wrote:
Justwar wrote:
Not worth arguing. In the end Caracter will play the Powell role, while Cousins is a franchise player.

^Cousins has superior upside and definitely should be groomed as a franchise player. But right now he's a big man who's game primarily revolves around guard skills. His big man skills need more work.

Which is something the 22 year old Caracter has developed that the 19 year old Cousins is still working on. Once Cousins develops into a big man I agree that he will be better than Caracter, who IMO has reached most of his potential as far as the offensive end goes.


Disagree that Caracter has reached most of his potential offensively. Right now, he doesn't have a faceup game, which if he develops, will eliminate most of the turnovers, because he won't have to drive into traffic.

Cousins is the superior talent no doubt. He's taller so he can read the doubles easier, which is why he gets assists, instead of turnovers, and his D is already better.


I would also add that it's absurd to suggest that any 22 year old big man has maximized his potential on either end of the floor. Caracter's game isn't almost completely evolved on offense ... at least it's unlikely that he has every move, and certainly not something we could know after 4 games of SPL play. Plus, big men are different. They typically take longer to develop. Could Caracter be mostly all he'll be? Well, that really depends on his own personal hunger or drive as to whether he's satisfied with his game. But then you could say that about absolutely every player coming in, including Cousins.

The more accurate statement is what you inferred: Cousins has more upside because of his size, length and athleticism in comparison to Caracter. Perhaps Caracter's upside looks like a bigger, more athletic Carlos Boozer, but that's not a bad thing. I could certainly live with that, even if Caracter had been a top 10 pick in the draft. What we do know thus far without question, is that he's been hands down one of the best players at the SPL and he has either matched or out-performed the bigs he has faced who were drafted far before him.

We just don't know if either guy has the fire to reach his potential, even if Cousins has the much higher ceiling.


Last edited by LakerJam on Tue Jul 13, 2010 8:56 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 8:54 pm    Post subject:

Ebanks' jump shot is very reliable. However, his layup is a suspect. I hope he grows a heart. There are a lot of NBA players who cannot finish. Usually, their career in one team don't last long.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 8:59 pm    Post subject:

Tris wrote:
Ebanks' jump shot is very reliable. However, his layup is a suspect. I hope he grows a heart. There are a lot of NBA players who cannot finish. Usually, their career in one team don't last long.


Not true. There are many an NBA player who are not great finishers. You have all kinds of players, some with floor games, some who are shooters, others who slash, some who live in the high post, down on the block, etc.

Ebanks is an NBA player with plenty of time and room to improve.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 9:02 pm    Post subject:

LakerJam wrote:
Tris wrote:
Ebanks' jump shot is very reliable. However, his layup is a suspect. I hope he grows a heart. There are a lot of NBA players who cannot finish. Usually, their career in one team don't last long.


Not true. There are many an NBA player who are not great finishers. You have all kinds of players, some with floor games, some who are shooters, others who slash, some who live in the high post, down on the block, etc.

Ebanks is an NBA player with plenty of time and room to improve.


As long as he doesn't fail to make a layup in an important game (e.g. Courtney Lee missing layup).
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 9:07 pm    Post subject:

http://www.nba.com/rookieladder/

lol DC still numero 1

1. DC
2. Cousins
3. John Wall
4. D Ebanks
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 9:20 pm    Post subject:

doven wrote:
http://www.nba.com/rookieladder/

lol DC still numero 1

1. DC
2. Cousins
3. John Wall
4. D Ebanks


Pretty good for the 58th pick. I don't see anyway he's not on the team, way to go Mitch.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 9:34 pm    Post subject:

Justwar wrote:
Not worth arguing. In the end Caracter will play the Powell role, while Cousins is a franchise player.


Franchise? Remains to be seen ...
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 9:41 pm    Post subject:

Even though Caracter looks to have the higher upside, Ebanks is the one who is more likely to get playing time next year IMO. What you notice about ebanks is that he takes appropriate shots. He works off others and takes the shots he should take. He's already playing like a role player.

Once Caracter stops having an offense run through him, we'll see if he can contribute. It will be an adjustment for him to play without getting as many touches and without the freedom to score. Unlike Ebanks, we haven't seen that Caracter would thrive simply just doing the dirty work.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 9:44 pm    Post subject:

LakerSanity wrote:

Once Caracter stops having an offense run through him, we'll see if he can contribute. It will be an adjustment for him to play without getting as many touches and without the freedom to score. Unlike Ebanks, we haven't seen that Caracter would thrive simply just doing the dirty work.


Wait, when the hell did that happen?
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