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10scott10
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 9:52 pm    Post subject:

Senor Mortgage wrote:
LakerSanity wrote:

Once Caracter stops having an offense run through him, we'll see if he can contribute. It will be an adjustment for him to play without getting as many touches and without the freedom to score. Unlike Ebanks, we haven't seen that Caracter would thrive simply just doing the dirty work.


Wait, when the hell did that happen?

The second half
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 10:14 pm    Post subject:

Out of the entire summer league roster - the Lakers should definitely sign Caracter, Ebanks, and Strawberry

DeMarcus Cousins is going to be an absolute beast in the next couple of years if he works on his game and keeps his head on straight. Very good game.

Back to the Lakers though.. these dudes are playing in close to back-to-back situations and playing extended minutes. In the NBA - Caracter and Ebanks won't be playing 30+ minutes a game. For what they do, they're more than capable of contributing this season. Behind Artest, Pau Gasol, and Lamar Odom - they're serviceable.

Derrick Caracter, believe it or not, has me completely sold on him. He won't be the starting PF or C anytime soon.. but he's a much more skilled player than people actually give him credit for. He held his ground against DeMarcus Cousins. Cousins had to work for the points he got.

Alot of times, people on here tend to go by what is regurgitated through draft websites and old scouting reports rather than watching the actual games.

Ebanks, I believe will absolutely thrive in the triangle. He's very good at playing off the ball and letting the game come to him. I'd rather take a player like him who you don't have to worry about running plays for rather than someone like Kyle Korver who is completely reliant on people making plays for himself.

Frank Robinson, I hope, never sniffs a Lakers training camp. OMG LOL. Frank 'Chuck' Robinson.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 11:03 pm    Post subject:

I see all this talk about Gerald Green sucks...you mean the guy who went 4-10 tonight with 5 rebounds, 2 assists and that monstrous dunk!?The same exact things that are being said about Gerald were also said about Ariza. The same things were said about Shannon Brown. You put a guy like Gerald around Kobe Bryant and Phil and I think he will be more than solid! Ariza was a terrible 3 point shooter before LA, but in our 08-09 playoff run he shot 47%. Shannon absolutely sucked at shooting before he came to LA. He didn't get much PT but before the Lakers his career high FG% was .378! Give a guy like Gerald....... Kobe, Phil and Fisher as a mentor and I guarantee he would be Shannon or Trevor 2.0.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 11:06 pm    Post subject:

ch3cky0selff00 wrote:
Out of the entire summer league roster - the Lakers should definitely sign Caracter, Ebanks, and Strawberry

DeMarcus Cousins is going to be an absolute beast in the next couple of years if he works on his game and keeps his head on straight. Very good game.

Back to the Lakers though.. these dudes are playing in close to back-to-back situations and playing extended minutes. In the NBA - Caracter and Ebanks won't be playing 30+ minutes a game. For what they do, they're more than capable of contributing this season. Behind Artest, Pau Gasol, and Lamar Odom - they're serviceable.

Derrick Caracter, believe it or not, has me completely sold on him. He won't be the starting PF or C anytime soon.. but he's a much more skilled player than people actually give him credit for. He held his ground against DeMarcus Cousins. Cousins had to work for the points he got.

Alot of times, people on here tend to go by what is regurgitated through draft websites and old scouting reports rather than watching the actual games.

Ebanks, I believe will absolutely thrive in the triangle. He's very good at playing off the ball and letting the game come to him. I'd rather take a player like him who you don't have to worry about running plays for rather than someone like Kyle Korver who is completely reliant on people making plays for himself.

Frank Robinson, I hope, never sniffs a Lakers training camp. OMG LOL. Frank 'Chuck' Robinson.

Have to agree with you about accurate talent readings on players. Watch summer league games before you run yer yap
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 11:48 pm    Post subject:

LakerJam wrote:


I would also add that it's absurd to suggest that any 22 year old big man has maximized his potential on either end of the floor.


I don't believe I've ever claimed that. All I've said is that most of his potential on the offensive end has been realized. His post moves are solid, his jumper is decent, and he's a pretty good passer, especially on outlets. Does he have room for improvement? Sure, but most of the improvements he needs to make are on the defensive end.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 12:00 am    Post subject:

LakerSanity wrote:

Once Caracter stops having an offense run through him, we'll see if he can contribute. It will be an adjustment for him to play without getting as many touches and without the freedom to score. Unlike Ebanks, we haven't seen that Caracter would thrive simply just doing the dirty work.


Here's a question. Who exactly do we have on the 2nd unit who can draw attention in the post?

The only guy with any semblance of a good postup game is LO, but he hardly establishes himself there. Luke only goes down there if he has a little guy on him. I don't see Caracter necessarily having to be a garbage man if he comes off the bench, especially since the triangle emphasizes running the ball through the post to begin with. If anything, Caracter's postup game will work nicely with the 2nd unit guys. Especially if we end up signing Bell. With Bell and Blake, we have 2 guards who spread the floor for the postup player.

Would it be nice to have Caracter learn to play off the ball? Yes. But the triangle is called the triple-post offense for a reason. A postup player helps the offense run smoothly.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 12:29 am    Post subject:

revgen wrote:
LakerSanity wrote:

Once Caracter stops having an offense run through him, we'll see if he can contribute. It will be an adjustment for him to play without getting as many touches and without the freedom to score. Unlike Ebanks, we haven't seen that Caracter would thrive simply just doing the dirty work.


Here's a question. Who exactly do we have on the 2nd unit who can draw attention in the post?

The only guy with any semblance of a good postup game is LO, but he hardly establishes himself there. Luke only goes down there if he has a little guy on him. I don't see Caracter necessarily having to be a garbage man if he comes off the bench, especially since the triangle emphasizes running the ball through the post to begin with. If anything, Caracter's postup game will work nicely with the 2nd unit guys. Especially if we end up signing Bell. With Bell and Blake, we have 2 guards who spread the floor for the postup player.

Would it be nice to have Caracter learn to play off the ball? Yes. But the triangle is called the triple-post offense for a reason. A postup player helps the offense run smoothly.


Indeed. Caracter also has a sweet jumper. He can do low and high post.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 12:36 am    Post subject:

Found a great page of info and stats on Caracter. He has always averaged over 55% shooting every year he played!

Here is some interesting info on his performance for 09-10....


Junior (2009-10): Averaged 14.1 points and 8.1 rebounds in 26.7 minutes en route to Second Team All-Conference USA honors. Also a first team All-District pick by the NABC. Sat the first five games of the season per NCAA transfer rules before making his UTEP debut vs. New Mexico State on Dec. 13. Ranked second in the conference and 16th nationally in field goal percentage (.567). Seventh in the league in rebounding. Became the first UTEP player to compile 10 or more rebounds in five consecutive games in 31 years. Had 10-plus boards in eight games. Totaled seven double-doubles on the season. Made 10-of-12 shots, including 7-of-7 in the second half, on his way to a 22-point, 13-rebound night against Houston. Scored 16 of his 21 points at Texas Tech in the second half, helping him to earn Conference USA Rookie of the Week honors. Recorded 21 points, 10 rebounds, two blocks and two steals against Alcorn State, shooting 8-of-11 from the field. Contributed 20 points, 13 rebounds and a season-high three steals at UAB, vaulting him to Conference USA Player of the Week. Converted 10-of-13 shots in tallying 20 points and nine rebounds vs. Butler in the NCAA Tournament First Round. Netted 18 points and nine rebounds against Houston in the title game of the Conference USA Tournament. Took control in the final minutes of the 49-45 win over SMU, scoring four straight points to break a 41-41 tie and throwing a baseball pass to Randy Culpepper for the game-clinching layup with six seconds left. Scored 18 points vs. the Mustangs, connecting on 7-of-11 shot attempts. Posted 15 points, 15 boards, three assists, a block and a steal in only 21 minutes against Norfolk State. Contributed 15 points and a career-high 15 rebounds in 32 minutes against Mississippi. Capped a big second half (all 13 of his points) by scoring UTEP's final three buckets vs. UAB, including the game-winning dunk with a second left.

Go read all his stats.

http://www.nba.com/draft2010/prospects/derrick-caracter/
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 7:14 am    Post subject:

4 losses in a row? Smh..
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 7:20 am    Post subject:

Hycosa wrote:
4 losses in a row? Smh..





Not a big deal. Look at the competition: We've been facing teams manned with vet NBA players. We have 2 second round picks who have played well (that's the important part) surrounded by guys who won't make an NBA roster next season, if ever.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 7:21 am    Post subject:

did they lose again? noooo.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 8:52 am    Post subject:

L.A.T.W wrote:
I see all this talk about Gerald Green sucks...you mean the guy who went 4-10 tonight with 5 rebounds, 2 assists and that monstrous dunk!?The same exact things that are being said about Gerald were also said about Ariza. The same things were said about Shannon Brown. You put a guy like Gerald around Kobe Bryant and Phil and I think he will be more than solid! Ariza was a terrible 3 point shooter before LA, but in our 08-09 playoff run he shot 47%. Shannon absolutely sucked at shooting before he came to LA. He didn't get much PT but before the Lakers his career high FG% was .378! Give a guy like Gerald....... Kobe, Phil and Fisher as a mentor and I guarantee he would be Shannon or Trevor 2.0.

Green's handles makes Shannon Brown look like Chris Paul. He's that bad. If this was his first year in the league maybe you take him on as a project but at this point I wouldn't bother. He's shown very little improvement and probably will never be a rotation player in the NBA. If you want a project then you take Strawberry. Lock him in a gym and make him shoot jumpers all day. At least he plays D and can handle the ball. The only thing Green can do decently is shoot.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 9:47 am    Post subject:

revgen wrote:
LakerSanity wrote:

Once Caracter stops having an offense run through him, we'll see if he can contribute. It will be an adjustment for him to play without getting as many touches and without the freedom to score. Unlike Ebanks, we haven't seen that Caracter would thrive simply just doing the dirty work.


Here's a question. Who exactly do we have on the 2nd unit who can draw attention in the post?

The only guy with any semblance of a good postup game is LO, but he hardly establishes himself there. Luke only goes down there if he has a little guy on him. I don't see Caracter necessarily having to be a garbage man if he comes off the bench, especially since the triangle emphasizes running the ball through the post to begin with. If anything, Caracter's postup game will work nicely with the 2nd unit guys. Especially if we end up signing Bell. With Bell and Blake, we have 2 guards who spread the floor for the postup player.

Would it be nice to have Caracter learn to play off the ball? Yes. But the triangle is called the triple-post offense for a reason. A postup player helps the offense run smoothly.


If he plays next to Gasol or Bynum, he's not going to get the ball to work his offense one on one as he has been doing. His offense will mostly be at the high post shooting open jumpers and passing once our players re-post. He won't have the same offensive freedom to create his own shot, but will have to play off of others.

Where he is actually used in a lineup with only LO (not Gasol or Bynum) and either he or LO is placed at the center spot, then you're right and he would not have to work off the ball as much and would likely have more offensive freedom. I wouldn't mind Phil using this lineup more often (especially to give Gasol and Bynum rest), but given Phil's history (especially with rookies) and Phil's lack of confidence of having LO out there without one or two of the big 3 there too, I'm not sure we see a LO/Caracter lineup a lot.

I really just don't see Phil using that Caracter/LO lineup a lot unless its in garbage time. Therefore, for Caracter to get on the court when a game matters, his role is going to be mostly to get rebounds, play D, not give up the ball, make his jumpers, and finish at the basket off assists. He's not going to have a lot of one on one opportunities, if any, if Bynum, Gasol, or Kobe are on the floor.

Rev, I like his game a lot. The problem is he's coming to a team with more than enough offensive and low post options. He's just not going to have that opportunity to show off these skills that often. Can he adjust and be okay with his limited role (instead of freedom he's had in the SL)? We'll find out. Ebanks has already shown he'll be fine in that role, Caracter hasn't. It's a fair question.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 10:07 am    Post subject:

I don't see the harm in just signing him to add talented youth to the roster.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 10:14 am    Post subject:

Yeah a part of me says trade him for more of a role guy at another position because to me Caracter is more of a offensive guy. Blocked shots don't make you a great defender.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 10:30 am    Post subject:

Re-watching the game Ebanks is fouled every time he went to the rim but the refs wouldn't call it.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 10:37 am    Post subject:

I thought both Ebanks and Caracter did well considering they were up against guys who will be starting for the Kings.

Any time a couple of second round picks who are projected to be deep bench guys can do that, I'll take it.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 11:11 am    Post subject:

LakerSanity wrote:
revgen wrote:
LakerSanity wrote:

Once Caracter stops having an offense run through him, we'll see if he can contribute. It will be an adjustment for him to play without getting as many touches and without the freedom to score. Unlike Ebanks, we haven't seen that Caracter would thrive simply just doing the dirty work.


Here's a question. Who exactly do we have on the 2nd unit who can draw attention in the post?

The only guy with any semblance of a good postup game is LO, but he hardly establishes himself there. Luke only goes down there if he has a little guy on him. I don't see Caracter necessarily having to be a garbage man if he comes off the bench, especially since the triangle emphasizes running the ball through the post to begin with. If anything, Caracter's postup game will work nicely with the 2nd unit guys. Especially if we end up signing Bell. With Bell and Blake, we have 2 guards who spread the floor for the postup player.

Would it be nice to have Caracter learn to play off the ball? Yes. But the triangle is called the triple-post offense for a reason. A postup player helps the offense run smoothly.


If he plays next to Gasol or Bynum, he's not going to get the ball to work his offense one on one as he has been doing. His offense will mostly be at the high post shooting open jumpers and passing once our players re-post. He won't have the same offensive freedom to create his own shot, but will have to play off of others.

Where he is actually used in a lineup with only LO (not Gasol or Bynum) and either he or LO is placed at the center spot, then you're right and he would not have to work off the ball as much and would likely have more offensive freedom. I wouldn't mind Phil using this lineup more often (especially to give Gasol and Bynum rest), but given Phil's history (especially with rookies) and Phil's lack of confidence of having LO out there without one or two of the big 3 there too, I'm not sure we see a LO/Caracter lineup a lot.

I really just don't see Phil using that Caracter/LO lineup a lot unless its in garbage time. Therefore, for Caracter to get on the court when a game matters, his role is going to be mostly to get rebounds, play D, not give up the ball, make his jumpers, and finish at the basket off assists. He's not going to have a lot of one on one opportunities, if any, if Bynum, Gasol, or Kobe are on the floor.

Rev, I like his game a lot. The problem is he's coming to a team with more than enough offensive and low post options. He's just not going to have that opportunity to show off these skills that often. Can he adjust and be okay with his limited role (instead of freedom he's had in the SL)? We'll find out. Ebanks has already shown he'll be fine in that role, Caracter hasn't. It's a fair question.


Phil gave Luke a lot of time when he was a rook. And mostly because Luke went to 4+ years of college and pretty much knew how to play. Caracter is 22 years old, and not some kid who went to college 1 year and came into the NBA. His post skills are mature and he has a high-iq for the game. I think Phil will experiment with Caracter and see what he can do for us. Pau and Bynum both missed 17 games last season. Any way we can rest them would be nice. If we can sign Bell, we can rest Kobe too. After 3 years of playing in June, we need all the rest we can get and I think Caracter can play a part in making that happen in ways that Powell and Mbenga cannot.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 12:38 pm    Post subject:

^Luke got playing time because our depth that year was terrible. We were in penny pinching mode, got lucky to sign Payton/Malone for nothing, and our bench suffered. Plus, Luke was and will always be a Phil Jackson favorite.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 12:48 pm    Post subject:

LakerSanity wrote:
^Luke got playing time because our depth that year was terrible. We were in penny pinching mode, got lucky to sign Payton/Malone for nothing, and our bench suffered. Plus, Luke was and will always be a Phil Jackson favorite.


Ugh don't remind me. I also think back to the draft choices we could have made... Boozer. Kirilenko. That team could have 5-peated.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 12:49 pm    Post subject:

^Fair enough, but if we wanted to keep guys who had no chance to play many minutes, I think we would have kept Powell and Mbenga.

I personally believe the main reason we are upgrading our bench is due to wear and tear on Pau, Kobe, and Drew last season. These long seasons eventually wear a team down, I won't be suprised if our rotations next season are far different than they've been in previous years.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 1:23 pm    Post subject:

I also hope Phil looks to go deeper more often (not only to get our guys rest, but to also develop Caracter and Ebanks).

Regardless, Caracter will be replacing Powell, so I would expect him to get Powell's minutes, but that still only equates to 9.2 minutes per game over the course of 63 games (despite Powell always being available).
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 1:35 pm    Post subject:

revgen wrote:
I personally believe the main reason we are upgrading our bench is due to wear and tear on Pau, Kobe, and Drew last season. These long seasons eventually wear a team down

The Lakers have yet to spend money to provide a back up to Pau, Kobe or Drew.

revgen wrote:
I won't be suprised if our rotations next season are far different than they've been in previous years.

Well, as Farmar, Brown, Powell and Mbenga are likely to not come back, it is hard to not see our rotations change.

At this point, there are too many unknowns to make any kind of projections for next season. Can Bynum stay healthy? Will age slow Fisher and Kobe? Can Blake learn and be effective in the triangle? Can Sasha recover his '07-'08 form? Can Walton's back heal?
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 1:38 pm    Post subject:

Dennis_D wrote:
revgen wrote:
I personally believe the main reason we are upgrading our bench is due to wear and tear on Pau, Kobe, and Drew last season. These long seasons eventually wear a team down

The Lakers have yet to spend money to provide a back up to Pau, Kobe or Drew.

revgen wrote:
I won't be suprised if our rotations next season are far different than they've been in previous years.

Well, as Farmar, Brown, Powell and Mbenga are likely to not come back, it is hard to not see our rotations change.

At this point, there are too many unknowns to make any kind of projections for next season. Can Bynum stay healthy? Will age slow Fisher and Kobe? Can Blake learn and be effective in the triangle? Can Sasha recover his '07-'08 form? Can Walton's back heal?


We'll see if they can acquire Bell and Thomas.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 2:17 pm    Post subject:

Freakout wrote:
Re-watching the game Ebanks is fouled every time he went to the rim but the refs wouldn't call it.


Truth.
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