Lakers: Ebanks and Caracter Look Like Keepers
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wolfpaclaker
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 17, 2010 2:11 pm    Post subject:

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Would you say Ebanks will be ready to give us rotation minutes this yr? Does his presence make Mitch want to go after a SG type rather than a SF type? I like Ebanks too but I don't know that Phil wants to play a rookie

It depends on Ebanks, and how he holds up. Guys start out great at times in their rookie years and then hit a wall.

IMO Phil will give Devin a chance and wants his team deep. He loves to use the bench. However by playoffs it comes down to who we need in a certain match up and how Devin evolves as the season heads into the post season. Phil will have to choose from a vet of the system (Walton), Kobe at the 3 and Ebanks. I think he will choose Ebanks only if he shows the things Ariza did on O, which was ability to run/finish on the break and cut off the ball within the half court sets. Obviously I don't expect the guy to have a reliable 3 point shot this season. But if he can show what Ariza did in his early days as a Laker, he will get minutes and be a rotation player for sure.
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revgen
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 17, 2010 2:39 pm    Post subject:

wolfpaclaker wrote:
Caracter may have impressed more in the SPL by staying toe to toe with lottery picks (Cousins) and doing some other very impressive stuff - but reality is I don't think Phil Jackson values guys like him too much.

Caracter will get a chance - perhaps Powell minutes. But two things. 1- We need to sign him on a 2 year deal and 2- Asssuming he doesn't repeat what he did in Louisville give him that 2nd year even if doesn't give you more than 5/3 as a rookie.

Caracter needs minutes and he also needs time to catch up to the NBA speed.

I think EBanks is far more NBA ready and far more likely to get or break into Phil's rotation. EBanks is just solid player. He doesn't have the jumpshot yet (although he was hitting them in some games) so that will hurt him. His style fits into LA's plans and what Phil values.

Length + Solid skills + Role player mindset = Lakers will give you a chance to play.

Caracter's lack of length/height works against him. We'll use him probably in situations where they have to match up with a Carl Landry or guys who like to play like that at PF/C, maybe even Glen Davis. So in that sense he further increases the versatility on this team's already insane big man talent. But realistically we shouldn't expect more than a few big games and a few games where he gets minutes this coming season.

All that said - if he works hard, listens to the coaches and gets the chance (which he should if he does the other things look at Sasha he sucks and they still give him a chance because he does the other things) - I can see this guy become a Big Baby type of role player for this team within a year. In the longrun if it lasts (work ethic, focus two things he hasn't always had) he can become a Carlos Boozer type of guy for a team without the playmaking/passing.

My predictions for Caracter's standing in the league within a few years.

Upside - Carlos Boozer/Zach Randolph
Middle/Most realistic - Big Baby
Downside - Craig Smith/Out of the NBA.


Despite his lack of length, Caracter has something that no other guy off our bench has. A true all-around post game. He can operate in the low post and the high-post. He's also shown some good passing instincts even if the delivery hasn't been great. Basically, he can fill the role Pau has with the starters for our bench unit. Phil may like length, but he also values skill and IQ. Caracter has both. On top of that, Caracter is 22 years old. He's a young man, not a kid. And judging by his change in behavior, he appears to be willing to listen to coaches. Combine skill, IQ, and willingness to be coached, and I think Phil won't be so concerned about height differential.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 17, 2010 3:04 pm    Post subject:

kobe_luver wrote:
emplay wrote:
my gut says he just wasn't in shape and ready to play in the nba


Good news! I hope we do invite him and he comes. Would like to see what he can do playing with us again.

Do you have any idea where Barnes will be announcing he's going tomorrow? Any rumors out there?


It's good news to you that he's out of shape and not ready to play? That's someone who has you excited to add to our championship contending team in the face of what the HEAT has done? A guy who despite glaring awareness that his recent transgressions would make most teams sour on even giving him a small chance, yet he couldn't find the motivation to be in shape?

Unless Eric is saying he wasn't in shape yet because of a recent surgery, this is not the mindset of a young player that has any business at a Lakers camp.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 17, 2010 3:22 pm    Post subject:

LakerJam wrote:
kobe_luver wrote:
emplay wrote:
my gut says he just wasn't in shape and ready to play in the nba


Good news! I hope we do invite him and he comes. Would like to see what he can do playing with us again.

Do you have any idea where Barnes will be announcing he's going tomorrow? Any rumors out there?


It's good news to you that he's out of shape and not ready to play? That's someone who has you excited to add to our championship contending team in the face of what the HEAT has done? A guy who despite glaring awareness that his recent transgressions would make most teams sour on even giving him a small chance, yet he couldn't find the motivation to be in shape?

Unless Eric is saying he wasn't in shape yet because of a recent surgery, this is not the mindset of a young player that has any business at a Lakers camp.


Would I rather he need a couple months to get back in shape than to have a lingering foot injury as was rumored...YES!!!

Would I rather he need a couple months to get back in shape than to have too big a head on himself to bother to showcase himself in the SL as was also rumored....YES!!!

Would I rather he need a couple months to get back in shape than to have been blackballed from the NBA by Stern after the gun incident as was also rumored....YES!!!

I doubt he thought we were going to invite him to the SL....so he wasn't in game shape yet after laying low after the foot surgery and the gun incident. I don't see a big problem with waiting to see what he can do for us til training camp in a few months (if we do invite him).
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 17, 2010 5:15 pm    Post subject:

You completely miss the point. We're talking about mindset here.

We don't need lazy players who only gear up to get in shape after the fact. We need guys who are competitive and keep themselves in shape and ready to go, versus needing several months to get there. This is even more crucial when you're talking about a young player, because he should be using the off-season to improve his game and his body so he can be a better player.

Critt hasn't accomplished anything in his career to be out of shape, especially after the gun incident thsi past season. He's not high on anyone's list to be so cavalier. At the very least, it sure doesn't make him look like a player who has any business being in out camp.

Unless Eric is suggesting he was out of shape because he had surgery. That's something that would be completely reasonable.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 17, 2010 7:33 pm    Post subject:

Maybe it is only an ancilary detail, but both Caracter and Bynum are 22 and from the same bb system in NJ. Pau and Odom are both 30 and come from the east coast of their countries (ok that last part just trying to make the link )

But the like maturity levels can help with player chemistry. When you see Odom and Pau work with better chemistry than Pau and Bynum, it's easy to forget they a 8 years apart in age.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 17, 2010 7:39 pm    Post subject:

Hey Emplay - can you tell us (or find out) what LA coaches are thinking about Ebanks shooting? The scouting report said inconsistent with a horrible 3 ball.

But from what I saw in summer league he has an absolutely deadly mid range shot (specifically free throw line extended) and had a ton of confidence from distance. There were some real clankers in there but seemed to have a lot of very sweet shots with good rotation and nothing but net. What gives?
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 17, 2010 8:08 pm    Post subject:

Laker's Fan wrote:
Hey Emplay - can you tell us (or find out) what LA coaches are thinking about Ebanks shooting? The scouting report said inconsistent with a horrible 3 ball.

But from what I saw in summer league he has an absolutely deadly mid range shot (specifically free throw line extended) and had a ton of confidence from distance. There were some real clankers in there but seemed to have a lot of very sweet shots with good rotation and nothing but net. What gives?


Why I'm no emplay, Ebanks has solid shooting mechanics, much better than say Ariza's (to go with the common comparison). Just lacks consistency. My guess is that they figure they can tweak it enough to get a jump in FG%. Shooting is generally the easiest thing you can improve at the NBA level so it was worth the risk, especially since the Lakers have one of the best shooting coaches in the NBA with Hodges.
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emplay
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 18, 2010 12:38 am    Post subject:

the coaches really need to get some time with him - we need to see how well he learns the system - matches up against other nba players - etc. no word on specifics of how they feel about his jump shot yet.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 18, 2010 3:23 am    Post subject:

could the lakers sign ebanks and caracter to longer contracts (3-4 years) with the rest of the mle money?
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 18, 2010 8:02 am    Post subject:

fwiw, caracter sounds exactly like the kind of guy who can do really well in europe, and get paid accordingly...

it wouldn't surprize me at all if he ends up going there this year.
might not be such a bad thing for the lakers, but regardless, i think there's a very good chance he'll get some offers that he won't be able to turn down - especially if you consider the looming lockout.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 18, 2010 9:36 am    Post subject:

Caracter will have to way money vs a shot at a title.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 18, 2010 9:36 am    Post subject:

lakerboy wrote:
could the lakers sign ebanks and caracter to longer contracts (3-4 years) with the rest of the mle money?


They will likely sign them to 2 yr deals with RFA after. That has been the trend.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 18, 2010 11:02 am    Post subject:

Fleur-de-Lis wrote:
lakerboy wrote:
could the lakers sign ebanks and caracter to longer contracts (3-4 years) with the rest of the mle money?


They will likely sign them to 2 yr deals with RFA after. That has been the trend.


the spurs signed dejuan blair last summer (also a 2nd round pick) to a 4 year contract. and they were over the cap like we are now.

so, i don't get this "it must be 2 years" rule
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 18, 2010 11:17 am    Post subject:

lakerboy wrote:
Fleur-de-Lis wrote:
lakerboy wrote:
could the lakers sign ebanks and caracter to longer contracts (3-4 years) with the rest of the mle money?


They will likely sign them to 2 yr deals with RFA after. That has been the trend.


the spurs signed dejuan blair last summer (also a 2nd round pick) to a 4 year contract. and they were over the cap like we are now.

so, i don't get this "it must be 2 years" rule


If you go over two years, you have to use some or all of the MLE to pay the rookie. They signed Blair using part of their MLE.
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emplay
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 18, 2010 12:05 pm    Post subject:

Quote:
could the lakers sign ebanks and caracter to longer contracts (3-4 years) with the rest of the mle money?


yes
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 18, 2010 12:22 pm    Post subject:

LakerSanity wrote:
lakerboy wrote:
Fleur-de-Lis wrote:
lakerboy wrote:
could the lakers sign ebanks and caracter to longer contracts (3-4 years) with the rest of the mle money?


They will likely sign them to 2 yr deals with RFA after. That has been the trend.


the spurs signed dejuan blair last summer (also a 2nd round pick) to a 4 year contract. and they were over the cap like we are now.

so, i don't get this "it must be 2 years" rule


If you go over two years, you have to use some or all of the MLE to pay the rookie. They signed Blair using part of their MLE.



that's why i asked this question earlier:

Quote:
could the lakers sign ebanks and caracter to longer contracts (3-4 years) with the rest of the mle money?


thanks emplay
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 18, 2010 12:28 pm    Post subject:

emplay wrote:
Quote:
could the lakers sign ebanks and caracter to longer contracts (3-4 years) with the rest of the mle money?


yes


If we signed them to 4 years....would the extra years count against this years MLE money or would the 2 extra years MLE $$ be taken out during those years?
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 18, 2010 12:36 pm    Post subject:

It would just be the first year money counting against the MLE.

If they are signed to standard 2nd round pick contracts, it's a separate exception.

It doesn't make much sense to do it though since they would only be restricted FA's after 2 years.

Besides, if they did that, that's the end of the MLE. Sure, there would be about $800k left, but vet minimums for most players is more than that, so it would all but eliminate that resource.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 18, 2010 12:46 pm    Post subject:

assuming that shannon brown comes back, we would only need a veteran big as a backup for the pf/c positions. kurt thomas for example.

if he decides to come here, it would be because he wants to win and not about money. so the vet. minimum should be enough.

then i would split the remaining 1.77mio from the mle for caracter and ebanks. 1mio in the first year for caracter and 700k for ebanks (for 3 or 4 years, just to have the bird rights afterwards). that would make a salary of a first round pick, of course only if they continue to impress in the training camp.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 18, 2010 12:54 pm    Post subject:

To me the game of Caracter is very close to Al Jefferson, it is nothing like Big baby or Landry.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 18, 2010 1:08 pm    Post subject:

lakerboy wrote:
assuming that shannon brown comes back, we would only need a veteran big as a backup for the pf/c positions. kurt thomas for example.

if he decides to come here, it would be because he wants to win and not about money. so the vet. minimum should be enough.

then i would split the remaining 1.77mio from the mle for caracter and ebanks. 1mio in the first year for caracter and 700k for ebanks (for 3 or 4 years, just to have the bird rights afterwards). that would make a salary of a first round pick, of course only if they continue to impress in the training camp.


Makes no sense to do that at all, especially since they would be restricted FA's after their rookie contracts.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 18, 2010 1:27 pm    Post subject:

Hector the Pup wrote:
lakerboy wrote:
assuming that shannon brown comes back, we would only need a veteran big as a backup for the pf/c positions. kurt thomas for example.

if he decides to come here, it would be because he wants to win and not about money. so the vet. minimum should be enough.

then i would split the remaining 1.77mio from the mle for caracter and ebanks. 1mio in the first year for caracter and 700k for ebanks (for 3 or 4 years, just to have the bird rights afterwards). that would make a salary of a first round pick, of course only if they continue to impress in the training camp.


Makes no sense to do that at all, especially since they would be restricted FA's after their rookie contracts.



no they wouldn't

dante cunningham from the portland blazers signed as a 2nd round pick the minimum salary for 2 years last summer and he will not be a restriced free agent after this year

or the clippers signed their this years 2nd round pick willie warren for the 2 years minimum and he will not be a restricted free agent afterwards.

from larry coon:

Quote:
Restricted free agency exists only on a limited basis. It is allowed following the fourth year of rookie "scale" contracts for first round draft picks (see question number 42). It is also allowed for all veteran free agents who have been in the league three or fewer seasons. However, a first round draft pick becomes an unrestricted free agent following his second or third season if his team does not exercise its option to extend the player's rookie scale contract for the next season. All other free agency is limited to unrestricted free agency.



still makes no sense?
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kobe_luver
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 18, 2010 1:58 pm    Post subject:

Plus, if we wanted to match a year 3 and 4 offer from some other team it would be much more than those years included in the contract now (4 year contract).
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 18, 2010 2:47 pm    Post subject:

any player under 4 years experience is restricted IF the team makes a qualifying offer - if they don't they become unrestricted. It's why a guy like Tolliver is unrestricted - he could have been restricted had the Warriors made a QO
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