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El Daddy702
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Joined: 14 Jan 2008
Posts: 5648
Location: Costa Mesa
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 Posted: Sat Jan 08, 2011 3:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Mamba3301 wrote: | | El Daddy702 wrote: | I agree that Blake is a very good player, and i agree he's going to get better. The thing i look at is who makes a bigger impact in games, not just flashy dunks. Is Blake ever going to command a double team? Can he lock down the opposing teams best big? Is he going to make game changing blocks and keep opposing teams from getting to the rim?
I believe Drew can give you what ever offensive numbers Blake gets, while commanding a double team and locking down the defensive end. I'm not being a homer, i'm just looking at what they both can do.
I have no problem with anyone taking Griffin over Bynum, but i do have a problem with being called a homer for picking Bynum. I'm just looking at their games... |
I was mostly referring to Laker fans whose posts came off as very biased towards Andrew. You praised both guys and gave a legit argument for why you'd pick Andrew over Blake so I can respect that. As fans, it is hard to be objective when it comes to our players.
Just one more thing...Blake is double teamed every time he touches the ball...very rare for a rookie. |
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revgen
Franchise Player
Joined: 23 Jul 2006
Posts: 10220
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| Posted: Sat Jan 08, 2011 3:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Kobe2Walton wrote: |
and when did Bynum become mutombo? |
Ask Gortat and Okafor.
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Maddocks
Starting Rotation
Joined: 04 Oct 2010
Posts: 547
Location: Los Angeles
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| Posted: Sat Jan 08, 2011 4:05 pm Post subject: |
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personally.....blake.
bynum comes back from a injury, lasts a bit, goes down again.
blake comes back from a injury, gets rookie of the year. |
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lafan4life78
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Joined: 07 Feb 2008
Posts: 2725
Location: Los Angeles, CA
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| Posted: Sat Jan 08, 2011 4:18 pm Post subject: |
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| El Daddy702 wrote: | Question for the ppl that take Griffin over Bynum:
If Drew would get as many touches as Griffin, what do you think he's capable of on the offensive end? |
he's not capable of 22-12, no |
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Capt.Skyhook
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Joined: 29 Feb 2004
Posts: 3991
Location: Louisville, Ky.
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| Posted: Sat Jan 08, 2011 4:27 pm Post subject: |
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To start a franchise I take Blake every time. He would excite your fanbase, seems to be a good kid, has a great work ethic and is playing at an All-Star level as a rookie.
No you aren't immediately going to win a title with him, but you sure as heck won't with just Bynum, either.
That fact that we are comparing a guy with 6 years experience against a guy with less than half a season shows you just how good Blake is and should actually answer the question.
Bynum is actually what the Lakers need and makes them championship caliber, but he is greatly overvalued on this board as far as being a franchise-type player. |
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Don Draper
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Joined: 21 Feb 2008
Posts: 28431
Location: LA --> Bay Area
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| Posted: Sat Jan 08, 2011 4:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Capt.Skyhook wrote: | To start a franchise I take Blake every time. He would excite your fanbase, seems to be a good kid, has a great work ethic and is playing at an All-Star level as a rookie.
No you aren't immediately going to win a title with him, but you sure as heck won't with just Bynum, either.
That fact that we are comparing a guy with 6 years experience against a guy with less than half a season shows you just how good Blake is and should actually answer the question.
Bynum is actually what the Lakers need and makes them championship caliber, but he is greatly overvalued on this board as far as being a franchise-type player. |
/agree |
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Kobe2Walton
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Joined: 29 Dec 2010
Posts: 585
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| Posted: Sat Jan 08, 2011 5:07 pm Post subject: |
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| revgen wrote: | | Kobe2Walton wrote: |
and when did Bynum become mutombo? |
Ask Gortat and Okafor. |
notsurifsrs.jpg
Perkins is still a better defender than Bynum. Getting blocks is not = great defense.
our bigs get so many blocks cause Derek Fisher allows more penetration than a hooker on mardi gras |
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revgen
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Joined: 23 Jul 2006
Posts: 10220
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| Posted: Sat Jan 08, 2011 5:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Kobe2Walton wrote: | | revgen wrote: | | Kobe2Walton wrote: |
and when did Bynum become mutombo? |
Ask Gortat and Okafor. |
notsurifsrs.jpg
Perkins is still a better defender than Bynum. Getting blocks is not = great defense.
our bigs get so many blocks cause Derek Fisher allows more penetration than a hooker on mardi gras |
We were a better defensive team last season with Bynum as our anchor. Giving up 103 points per 100 possessions with the Bynum/Gasol lineup as opposed to 105 points per 100 possessions with the Odom/Gasol lineup. We are a better defensive team this season with Bynum as our anchor, giving up 99 points per 100 possessions when the Bynum-Gasol lineup is on the floor. Not even the Celtic starting lineup last season with Perkins in the lineup can match that. The Odom-Gasol lineup this season is giving up 104 points per 100 possessions. That's a 5 point difference, which is pretty significant.
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Last edited by revgen on Sat Jan 08, 2011 5:53 pm; edited 5 times in total |
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Ode to Triple Ocho
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Joined: 11 Feb 2010
Posts: 1610
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| Posted: Sat Jan 08, 2011 5:16 pm Post subject: |
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| lafan4life78 wrote: |
he's not capable of 22-12, no |
How is Bynum not capable of 22 points with enough touches? Elaborate.
And how is he not capable of 12 boards on a crap team like the Clippers. Chris Kaman did it and Bynum is a better offense rebounder and shares most of the defensive boards with LO and Gasol. |
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yellowledbetter
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Joined: 28 May 2003
Posts: 1523
Location: california
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| Posted: Sat Jan 08, 2011 5:18 pm Post subject: |
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| :lol the guy saying the "worst case" for Andrew is HoF'er Robert Parish. no his worst case is Brendan Haywood or Erick Dampier. Blake had one significant injury last year, which he hasn't shown any effects of. Drew has had knee injuries almost every year since high school. That's a pattern, and a scary one. I'd trade Drew for Blake in a heartbeat. And the Clippers, one of the worst run organizations in the league, would NOT, even if the money were equal. |
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Kobe2Walton
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| Posted: Sat Jan 08, 2011 5:21 pm Post subject: |
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| revgen wrote: |
We were a better defensive team last season with Bynum as our anchor. Giving up 102 points per 100 possessions with the Bynum/Gasol lineup as opposed to 105 points per 100 possessions with the Odom/Gasol lineup. We are a better defensive team this season with Bynum as our anchor, giving up 99 points per 100 possessions when the Bynum-Gasol lineup is on the floor. Not even the Celtic starting lineup last season with Perkins in the lineup can match that. The Odom-Gasol lineup this season is giving up 104 points per 100 possessions. |
ok, perhaps my eyes deceive me. Where do you get those numbers anyways? |
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Don Draper
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Joined: 21 Feb 2008
Posts: 28431
Location: LA --> Bay Area
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| Posted: Sat Jan 08, 2011 5:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Ode to Triple Ocho wrote: | | lafan4life78 wrote: |
he's not capable of 22-12, no |
How is Bynum not capable of 22 points with enough touches? Elaborate.
And how is he not capable of 12 boards on a crap team like the Clippers. Chris Kaman did it and Bynum is a better offense rebounder and shares most of the defensive boards with LO and Gasol. |
imo on the Clippers Bynum would probably perform like Brook Lopez did on the Nets last year. |
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revgen
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Joined: 23 Jul 2006
Posts: 10220
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| Posted: Sat Jan 08, 2011 5:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Kobe2Walton wrote: | | revgen wrote: |
We were a better defensive team last season with Bynum as our anchor. Giving up 103 points per 100 possessions with the Bynum/Gasol lineup as opposed to 105 points per 100 possessions with the Odom/Gasol lineup. We are a better defensive team this season with Bynum as our anchor, giving up 99 points per 100 possessions when the Bynum-Gasol lineup is on the floor. Not even the Celtic starting lineup last season with Perkins in the lineup can match that. The Odom-Gasol lineup this season is giving up 104 points per 100 possessions. |
ok, perhaps my eyes deceive me. Where do you get those numbers anyways? |
www.82games.com
Oh and btw, the Celtics as a team are giving up 100 points per 100 possessions again this season, without Perkins. I think you need to give a bit more credit to KG, since he's their anchor. Not Perkins.
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Last edited by revgen on Sat Jan 08, 2011 5:53 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Ode to Triple Ocho
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Joined: 11 Feb 2010
Posts: 1610
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| Posted: Sat Jan 08, 2011 5:23 pm Post subject: |
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| yellowledbetter wrote: | | :lol the guy saying the "worst case" for Andrew is HoF'er Robert Parish. no his worst case is Brendan Haywood or Erick Dampier. Blake had one significant injury last year, which he hasn't shown any effects of. Drew has had knee injuries almost every year since high school. That's a pattern, and a scary one. I'd trade Drew for Blake in a heartbeat. And the Clippers, one of the worst run organizations in the league, would NOT, even if the money were equal. |
Griffin's knee mysteriously imploded by going up for a dunk. Bynum's knee was hurt by unavoidable external factors. Great pattern you got there.
Bynum has been better than Dampier and Haywood for years so your comparison doesn't make any sense at all. |
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yellowledbetter
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Location: california
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| Posted: Sat Jan 08, 2011 5:26 pm Post subject: |
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my comparison was for WORST CASE. If Bynum continues to get injured and it stunts his development he could very well be another Dampier or Haywood. And Griffin had that one significant injury, Bynum has had about 4. Big difference.
Don't get me wrong, I like Bynum, I just don't see this Hall of Fame upside so many fellow Laker fans see. If he can stay healthy he can be a great center, but IMO Blake's got a much higher ceiling. A lot of Bynum's offense and footwork is very mechanical, and Bynum isn't really that elite of an athlete. He has a little of that Yao/Oden awkardness to him when he runs/moves around. Blake on the other hand is a natural, pure athlete, in the vain of young Shaq, Dwight and Amare. Even though they are big they move around like swingmen. From my experience those guys tend to have better, longer career arcs. |
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Don Draper
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Joined: 21 Feb 2008
Posts: 28431
Location: LA --> Bay Area
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| Posted: Sat Jan 08, 2011 5:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Ode to Triple Ocho wrote: | | yellowledbetter wrote: | | :lol the guy saying the "worst case" for Andrew is HoF'er Robert Parish. no his worst case is Brendan Haywood or Erick Dampier. Blake had one significant injury last year, which he hasn't shown any effects of. Drew has had knee injuries almost every year since high school. That's a pattern, and a scary one. I'd trade Drew for Blake in a heartbeat. And the Clippers, one of the worst run organizations in the league, would NOT, even if the money were equal. |
Griffin's knee mysteriously imploded by going up for a dunk. Bynum's knee was hurt by unavoidable external factors. Great pattern you got there.
Bynum has been better than Dampier and Haywood for years so your comparison doesn't make any sense at all. |
For Griffin's injury it kind of looked like he had his knee hit while in the air and then landed on it a bit awkwardly. |
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Ode to Triple Ocho
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Joined: 11 Feb 2010
Posts: 1610
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| Posted: Sat Jan 08, 2011 5:51 pm Post subject: |
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| yellowledbetter wrote: | | my comparison was for WORST CASE. If Bynum continues to get injured and it stunts his development he could very well be another Dampier or Haywood. And Griffin had that one significant injury, Bynum has had about 4. Big difference. |
You're ignoring the context of how the injuries happened. Just a disingenuous position.
Again, your comparison doesn't make one iota of sense when Bynum has already been better than Haywood or Dampier and has proven he is willing to work.
| yellowledbetter wrote: | | Don't get me wrong, I like Bynum, I just don't see this Hall of Fame upside so many fellow Laker fans see. If he can stay healthy he can be a great center, but IMO Blake's got a much higher ceiling. A lot of Bynum's offense and footwork is very mechanical, and Bynum isn't really that elite of an athlete. He has a little of that Yao/Oden awkardness to him when he runs/moves around. Blake on the other hand is a natural, pure athlete, in the vain of young Shaq, Dwight and Amare. Even though they are big they move around like swingmen. From my experience those guys tend to have better, longer career arcs. |
Blake's game is highly predicated on freakish athleticism and his mechanical game pales in comparison to Bynum's. So again, your hypothesis that Blake would have a longer career arc is shoddy, when age (will) or another mysterious injury could rob him of that athleticism.
I'm not big on pointless hypotheticals like the one of suggested by the OP. But your reasoning is just weak and misinformed. |
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Pappy
Star Player
Joined: 02 May 2004
Posts: 3203
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| Posted: Sat Jan 08, 2011 5:57 pm Post subject: |
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| E=MC² wrote: | | Bynum and its not even close. I'll take a guy with superior skillset around the basket and elite defense over a guy whose main skill is to dunk. |
ok Einstein! |
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Bynum4MVP
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Joined: 16 Oct 2008
Posts: 4816
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| Posted: Sat Jan 08, 2011 6:04 pm Post subject: |
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| TheVujacicFan wrote: | | Ode to Triple Ocho wrote: | | lafan4life78 wrote: |
he's not capable of 22-12, no |
How is Bynum not capable of 22 points with enough touches? Elaborate.
And how is he not capable of 12 boards on a crap team like the Clippers. Chris Kaman did it and Bynum is a better offense rebounder and shares most of the defensive boards with LO and Gasol. |
imo on the Clippers Bynum would probably perform like Brook Lopez did on the Nets last year. |
 Yup, put Bynum on some scrub team and he gets 22/12 in his sleep.
Pau and Lamar are outstanding rebounders...Griffin only has to share with Chris friggin' Kaman.
Chris Kaman being an All Star is all you need to know about the inflated benefits of playing on a scrub team.
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kaoss128
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Joined: 09 Apr 2006
Posts: 13058
Location: Morgantown, WV
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| Posted: Sat Jan 08, 2011 6:45 pm Post subject: |
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| I could see Bynum possibly getting 22 points per game but I do not see him getting nearly 13 rebounds a game like Griffin. |
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jonnybravo
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Joined: 21 Sep 2007
Posts: 30666
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| Posted: Sat Jan 08, 2011 7:01 pm Post subject: |
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| revgen wrote: | | Kobe2Walton wrote: | | revgen wrote: |
We were a better defensive team last season with Bynum as our anchor. Giving up 103 points per 100 possessions with the Bynum/Gasol lineup as opposed to 105 points per 100 possessions with the Odom/Gasol lineup. We are a better defensive team this season with Bynum as our anchor, giving up 99 points per 100 possessions when the Bynum-Gasol lineup is on the floor. Not even the Celtic starting lineup last season with Perkins in the lineup can match that. The Odom-Gasol lineup this season is giving up 104 points per 100 possessions. |
ok, perhaps my eyes deceive me. Where do you get those numbers anyways? |
www.82games.com
Oh and btw, the Celtics as a team are giving up 100 points per 100 possessions again this season, without Perkins. I think you need to give a bit more credit to KG, since he's their anchor. Not Perkins. |
KG is the Alpha and Omega of that teams defense.
Last edited by jonnybravo on Sat Jan 08, 2011 7:06 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Runway8
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Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Posts: 22835
Location: La Jolla, San Diego
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| Posted: Sat Jan 08, 2011 7:03 pm Post subject: |
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| zurich78 wrote: | | Blake Griffin isn't a #1 guy in my opinion. More of a #2. At least for now. I mean, remove his dunking ability and what do you have? Kevin Love maybe. |
That's a part of his game and it gets you a deuce right? That's like saying remove dunking from Howard or Shaq's game and what do you have? Point is you cannot remove it, and Shaq's had a hall of fame career because you couldn't remove his dunks. Remove Reggie Miller's three pointers and what do you have? See what I mean? It's a silly thing to say. |
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70sdude
Star Player
Joined: 05 Feb 2009
Posts: 4567
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| Posted: Sat Jan 08, 2011 7:06 pm Post subject: |
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If you're the Portland GM, tradition insists that you pick Bynum.
Otherwise, you pick whoever else is on the board . |
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Lowest Merion
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Joined: 22 Jun 2010
Posts: 10720
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| Posted: Sat Jan 08, 2011 7:10 pm Post subject: |
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I like Bynum, but only 8 rookies in NBA history have averaged at least 20 ppg and 12 rpg:
| Quote: | | Bob Pettit, Elgin Baylor, Wilt Chamberlain, Walt Bellamy, Elvin Hayes, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, David Robinson and Shaquille O'Neal. |
http://www.nba.com/rookieladder/
Yeah. They're all in the HOF except for Shaq, who will be.
I'll stick with my answer when this question (more or less) was raised on the 2nd day of this season:
| Lowest Merion wrote: | | The Clips would hang up on Mitch before he could finish making the offer. |
http://forums.lakersground.net/viewtopic.php?t=122292 |
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City_Dawg
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Location: Coming soon and striking at your borders.
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| Posted: Sat Jan 08, 2011 8:59 pm Post subject: |
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| jonnybravo wrote: | | revgen wrote: | | Kobe2Walton wrote: | | revgen wrote: |
We were a better defensive team last season with Bynum as our anchor. Giving up 103 points per 100 possessions with the Bynum/Gasol lineup as opposed to 105 points per 100 possessions with the Odom/Gasol lineup. We are a better defensive team this season with Bynum as our anchor, giving up 99 points per 100 possessions when the Bynum-Gasol lineup is on the floor. Not even the Celtic starting lineup last season with Perkins in the lineup can match that. The Odom-Gasol lineup this season is giving up 104 points per 100 possessions. |
ok, perhaps my eyes deceive me. Where do you get those numbers anyways? |
www.82games.com
Oh and btw, the Celtics as a team are giving up 100 points per 100 possessions again this season, without Perkins. I think you need to give a bit more credit to KG, since he's their anchor. Not Perkins. |
KG is the Alpha and Omega of that teams defense. |
So who is the Alpha and Omega of that team's douchetactular culture?
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