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LakerSanity
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 Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 8:55 am Post subject: |
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| DaMuleRules wrote: | | LakerSanity wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: | | By the way, the next episode is entitled "The Queen's Justice" . . . so mull on that one for the next 6 days. |
The fair assumption is that is a reference to Dany, given all that just went down to her fleet at the end of the episode. |
Regardless of which Queen, the real question is about the "Justice" part . . . justice served? Or justice received?  |
Served! Which is why I am assuming its Dany. As Omar stated, too early to give Cersei her justice. I expect her and the Night King's demise to come around the same time.
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numero-ocho
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| Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 8:55 am Post subject: |
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| Omar Little wrote: | | LakerSanity wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: | | By the way, the next episode is entitled "The Queen's Justice" . . . so mull on that one for the next 6 days. |
The fair assumption is that is a reference to Dany, given all that just went down to her fleet at the end of the episode. |
Or cersei, since Euron is bringing her the killer of her daughter. Or both, and since Sansa is temporarily queen of the north... |
Well, we know the writers have used the episode title before to describe more than one related story in the episode like they did with "Second Sons".
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 8:58 am Post subject: |
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| LakerSanity wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: | | LakerSanity wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: | | By the way, the next episode is entitled "The Queen's Justice" . . . so mull on that one for the next 6 days. |
The fair assumption is that is a reference to Dany, given all that just went down to her fleet at the end of the episode. |
Regardless of which Queen, the real question is about the "Justice" part . . . justice served? Or justice received? |
Served! Which is why I am assuming its Dany. As Omar stated, too early to give Cersei her justice. I expect her and the Night King's demise to come around the same time. |
I expect cersei to go just before the night king as everything south is wrapped up. Fwiw, I think next week John and deny will meet and reach accommodation, cersei will get her revenge on ellaria (and ally with euron), setting up the big battles simultaneously at casterly rock and kings landing. The dark horse is that Sansa dispenses some justice to littlefinger
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marga86
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| Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 9:08 am Post subject: |
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| Omar Little wrote: | | LakerSanity wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: | | LakerSanity wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: | | By the way, the next episode is entitled "The Queen's Justice" . . . so mull on that one for the next 6 days. |
The fair assumption is that is a reference to Dany, given all that just went down to her fleet at the end of the episode. |
Regardless of which Queen, the real question is about the "Justice" part . . . justice served? Or justice received? |
Served! Which is why I am assuming its Dany. As Omar stated, too early to give Cersei her justice. I expect her and the Night King's demise to come around the same time. |
I expect cersei to go just before the night king as everything south is wrapped up. Fwiw, I think next week John and deny will meet and reach accommodation, cersei will get her revenge on ellaria (and ally with euron), setting up the big battles simultaneously at casterly rock and kings landing. The dark horse is that Sansa dispenses some justice to littlefinger |
I'm really intrigued about the danny and jon snow "meeting".. I wonder if Danny will sense any "fire" in jon. |
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LakerSanity
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| Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 9:12 am Post subject: |
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I could see an ending where Dany doesn't make it out alive, and Jon is the only one left to rule. I could also see Dany and Jon falling in love before that happens. If the show stays true to form, it will happen with a bitter sweet ending. I almost feel as though any ending where both Jon and Dany survive is one that is too "happy" for GOT.
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numero-ocho
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| Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 9:19 am Post subject: |
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| AY2043 wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: | | numero-ocho wrote: | | AY2043 wrote: | So I'm just going to assume that Jon is going to die sooner rather than later.
Between the King in the North scene, choking out LF as Ned did in season 1 (in front of Ned's (bleep) tomb no less), and now leaving Sansa in charge of Winterfell -- as Ned did Cat -- while riding South, they're almost overdoing this "following in the footsteps of dead men" metaphor.
Great episode though |
I can't see the point of bringing Jon back from the dead, surviving the Battle of the Bastards, revealing he has Targaryan blood, and the Red Woman telling Daenerys he's vital to war with the White Walkers just so he could be murdered by Littlefinger. |
Yeah, his arc from banished bastard to where he is at this point is far too monumental and intricate that killing him off too soon in that arc would be pointless. |
Then what is point of including all of these painfully obvious parallels between Jon and Robb/Ned? Surely there's some meaning there, and they didn't just throw them in there for the heck of it.
Maybe it's to emphasize that he is in fact a Targaryen, and thus won't suffer the same fate as the Stark men? |
Perhaps. Maybe the point is that doing the right thing doesn't always end up getting you killed.
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numero-ocho
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| Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 9:26 am Post subject: |
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| marga86 wrote: |
I'm really intrigued about the danny and jon snow "meeting".. I wonder if Danny will sense any "fire" in jon. |
That reminds me. Where's Bran? He's the only who knows the truth about Jon's true parents. Jon already received two messages by raven from the Citadel and Dragonstone but I haven't seen any mention he was aware Bran's arrived at Castle Black.
What's up with the raven service in the North?
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 9:47 am Post subject: |
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| Omar Little wrote: | | LakerSanity wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: | | LakerSanity wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: | | By the way, the next episode is entitled "The Queen's Justice" . . . so mull on that one for the next 6 days. |
The fair assumption is that is a reference to Dany, given all that just went down to her fleet at the end of the episode. |
Regardless of which Queen, the real question is about the "Justice" part . . . justice served? Or justice received? |
Served! Which is why I am assuming its Dany. As Omar stated, too early to give Cersei her justice. I expect her and the Night King's demise to come around the same time. |
I expect cersei to go just before the night king as everything south is wrapped up. Fwiw, I think next week John and deny will meet and reach accommodation, cersei will get her revenge on ellaria (and ally with euron), setting up the big battles simultaneously at casterly rock and kings landing. The dark horse is that Sansa dispenses some justice to littlefinger |
That's also something I think is a ways down the road. Too much possibility in that current storyline to cut it short.
Personally I am ready to see some justice received, but realize I will likely have to wait . . .
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 9:52 am Post subject: |
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| LakerSanity wrote: | | I could see an ending where Dany doesn't make it out alive, and Jon is the only one left to rule. I could also see Dany and Jon falling in love before that happens. If the show stays true to form, it will happen with a bitter sweet ending. I almost feel as though any ending where both Jon and Dany survive is one that is too "happy" for GOT. |
I agree. I don't think there will be any "happy" end to the series for anyone. My money is on that no one really survives, or at least does so with any real power. That all the power plays and pursuits of ruling will ultimately come out for naught and will up consuming all of the participants in some way or other. I sense and end that is "satisfying" more than it is rewarding or celebratory. There will be some aspect that leaves a sense of opportunity not realized.
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You thought God was an architect, now you know
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Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
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loslakersss
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| Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 10:23 am Post subject: |
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| DaMuleRules wrote: | | LakerSanity wrote: | | I could see an ending where Dany doesn't make it out alive, and Jon is the only one left to rule. I could also see Dany and Jon falling in love before that happens. If the show stays true to form, it will happen with a bitter sweet ending. I almost feel as though any ending where both Jon and Dany survive is one that is too "happy" for GOT. |
I agree. I don't think there will be any "happy" end to the series for anyone. My money is on that no one really survives, or at least does so with any real power. That all the power plays and pursuits of ruling will ultimately come out for naught and will up consuming all of the participants in some way or other. I sense and end that is "satisfying" more than it is rewarding or celebratory. There will be some aspect that leaves a sense of opportunity not realized. |
Do you think the "queen of the ashes" line is foreshadowing the overall ending? |
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 10:25 am Post subject: |
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| loslakersss wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: | | LakerSanity wrote: | | I could see an ending where Dany doesn't make it out alive, and Jon is the only one left to rule. I could also see Dany and Jon falling in love before that happens. If the show stays true to form, it will happen with a bitter sweet ending. I almost feel as though any ending where both Jon and Dany survive is one that is too "happy" for GOT. |
I agree. I don't think there will be any "happy" end to the series for anyone. My money is on that no one really survives, or at least does so with any real power. That all the power plays and pursuits of ruling will ultimately come out for naught and will up consuming all of the participants in some way or other. I sense and end that is "satisfying" more than it is rewarding or celebratory. There will be some aspect that leaves a sense of opportunity not realized. |
Do you think the "queen of the ashes" line is foreshadowing the overall ending? |
I think that's the general spirit of the eventual outcome.
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You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
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Jhin0821
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| Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 10:42 am Post subject: |
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| Bran is taking his sweet ass time getting back to Jon and Sansa. |
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Vishnu
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| Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 10:56 am Post subject: |
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| FWIW, GRRM said his initial plan was that Jon, Dany, Bran, Arya, and Tyrion would all make it to the end. Those 5 are seen are his core characters and are referred to as his children. The fact that he actually said this means that this is very likely no longer the plan and that all 5 of them could die by the end. |
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gng930
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| Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 11:04 am Post subject: |
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The bittersweet ending IMO will probably be that Jon dies fighting/killing the Night's King. Dany will rule all, Sansa will be Warden of the North, Tyrion Warden of the South, and Missandei the Queen's Hand.
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JerryMagicKobe
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| Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 11:20 am Post subject: |
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| It is interesting to see them start to emphasize more of the 'game' aspect of Game of Thrones with each potential ruler planning their strategy with their map and playing pieces. The intro sequence has changed to include a bit more of the rings, increasing the feeling of someone watching from above. There was even a moment in the show that showed a view from above one of the houses that made the structure look an awful lot like the mechanical model from the intro. |
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focus
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| Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 11:35 am Post subject: |
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| numero-ocho wrote: | | marga86 wrote: |
I'm really intrigued about the danny and jon snow "meeting".. I wonder if Danny will sense any "fire" in jon. |
That reminds me. Where's Bran? He's the only who knows the truth about Jon's true parents. Jon already received two messages by raven from the Citadel and Dragonstone but I haven't seen any mention he was aware Bran's arrived at Castle Black.
What's up with the raven service in the North? |
Good point. Unless he's holding out on telling anyone, Jon or others, for some reason. I lean to just not addressed, or he's progressing south to Winterfelll to tell him, though only sisters will be there. |
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focus
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| Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 11:37 am Post subject: |
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I think Queen's justice could mean Cersei on the Dornish mom, plenty of room for a good dramatic end there, and whatever that means, Dorne is already in flux with the ships all burned.
The fleet destroyed is a big deal that has set plans back bigtime.
Also, I hope Nymeria not going with Arya is not supposed to suggest Arya will always be on her own. |
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loslakersss
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| Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 11:38 am Post subject: |
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| I think Bran is smart enough to let people think he's dead. He doesn't need anyone else trying to kill him if his raven message got intercepted. |
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 11:48 am Post subject: |
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| focus wrote: | I think Queen's justice could mean Cersei on the Dornish mom, plenty of room for a good dramatic end there, and whatever that means, Dorne is already in flux with the ships all burned.
The fleet destroyed is a big deal that has set plans back bigtime.
Also, I hope Nymeria not going with Arya is not supposed to suggest Arya will always be on her own. |
Nymeria is a mirror of Arya. They have both set about their own right and proper paths as individuals.
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You thought God was an architect, now you know
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focus
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| Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 11:56 am Post subject: |
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| DaMuleRules wrote: | | focus wrote: | I think Queen's justice could mean Cersei on the Dornish mom, plenty of room for a good dramatic end there, and whatever that means, Dorne is already in flux with the ships all burned.
The fleet destroyed is a big deal that has set plans back bigtime.
Also, I hope Nymeria not going with Arya is not supposed to suggest Arya will always be on her own. |
Nymeria is a mirror of Arya. They have both set about their own right and proper paths as individuals. |
I just hope she becomes part of a pack too, at least in spirit.
On another note, do none of the Starks know how Littlefinger betrayed Ned at King's Landing in S1? Had to be addressed somewhere along the line.
Glad they disposed of the Evil Sisters or whatever quickly. Waste of screen time mostly. |
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gng930
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| Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 11:58 am Post subject: |
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| focus wrote: | I think Queen's justice could mean Cersei on the Dornish mom, plenty of room for a good dramatic end there, and whatever that means, Dorne is already in flux with the ships all burned.
The fleet destroyed is a big deal that has set plans back bigtime. |
Yeah Dornish mom killed Cersei's only daughter. Now Cersei has her and her lone surviving daughter captured alive.
The destruction of her fleet now necessitates an alliance with Jon. Her dragons for his men.
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:00 pm Post subject: |
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| focus wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: | | focus wrote: | I think Queen's justice could mean Cersei on the Dornish mom, plenty of room for a good dramatic end there, and whatever that means, Dorne is already in flux with the ships all burned.
The fleet destroyed is a big deal that has set plans back bigtime.
Also, I hope Nymeria not going with Arya is not supposed to suggest Arya will always be on her own. |
Nymeria is a mirror of Arya. They have both set about their own right and proper paths as individuals. |
I just hope she becomes part of a pack too, at least in spirit.
On another note, do none of the Starks know how Littlefinger betrayed Ned at King's Landing in S1? Had to be addressed somewhere along the line.
Glad they disposed of the Evil Sisters or whatever quickly. Waste of screen time mostly. |
Yes, as much as I enjoyed them when they first appeared, the Sand Snake sisters had kind of run their course. They became cliche's of themselves really.
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You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
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babyskyhook
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| Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:12 pm Post subject: |
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| LakerSanity wrote: | The predictable outcome of the Sansa story line is being tempted by little finger to help her assert her right to the "thrown" by betraying John, some signs she may be tempted and then, ultimately, aligning with her brother and killing little finger herself.
However, what I would think would be pretty cool is Arya seeing with little finger is doing once she gets North and her killing him (sooner rather than later). I see Arya as the Stark protector, so that could easily happen.
And, by the way, even if Arya doesn't kill Cersia herself, wouldn't it be bad add if she somehow figures out a way to kill the Mountain?
I also see the Hound coming back into all this and playing some kind of pivotal role of redemption that we just haven't seen yet. Although I think that will be in the war up North, not in King's landing. |
You and I are thinking the same way re: Arya and LF. He's going to have a very bad day at some point up North. Looks like Sansa will play him along for a while until she no longer needs him. At that point I'm thinking/hoping Arya takes him out. Arya saw him at Harenhal meeting with Tywin when she was Tywin's cupbearer. She knows he's no friend of their family.
I don't really buy that there's much conflict between Jon and Sansa. They need to figure out how to have a private meeting before appearing in front of the assembled Northern Lords, but there is a lot of trust and respect between them. Not worried about Sansa undermining him at all. Even though she's worried about Dany, who may be their enemy, she's also worried about Cersei, and there's no doubt Cersei is their enemy. She should have seen the value in teaming up with Dany beyond the fight vs the Nights King. |
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babyskyhook
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| Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:17 pm Post subject: |
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| DaMuleRules wrote: | | numero-ocho wrote: | | AY2043 wrote: | So I'm just going to assume that Jon is going to die sooner rather than later.
Between the King in the North scene, choking out LF as Ned did in season 1 (in front of Ned's (bleep) tomb no less), and now leaving Sansa in charge of Winterfell -- as Ned did Cat -- while riding South, they're almost overdoing this "following in the footsteps of dead men" metaphor.
Great episode though |
I can't see the point of bringing Jon back from the dead, surviving the Battle of the Bastards, revealing he has Targaryan blood, and the Red Woman telling Daenerys he's vital to war with the White Walkers just so he could be murdered by Littlefinger. |
Yeah, his arc from banished bastard to where he is at this point is far too monumental and intricate that killing him off too soon in that arc would be pointless. |
Agreed. My read on this is that everything south of the Wall has been a fun distraction for six years, but that the ultimate story has always been pointing to Jon and whoever his allies are vs the Nights King/White Walkers/ Army of the Dead.
You don't go through all the trouble to set Jon up in this way only to kill him off and have someone else lead the battle vs the WW. |
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:17 pm Post subject: |
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| babyskyhook wrote: | | LakerSanity wrote: | The predictable outcome of the Sansa story line is being tempted by little finger to help her assert her right to the "thrown" by betraying John, some signs she may be tempted and then, ultimately, aligning with her brother and killing little finger herself.
However, what I would think would be pretty cool is Arya seeing with little finger is doing once she gets North and her killing him (sooner rather than later). I see Arya as the Stark protector, so that could easily happen.
And, by the way, even if Arya doesn't kill Cersia herself, wouldn't it be bad add if she somehow figures out a way to kill the Mountain?
I also see the Hound coming back into all this and playing some kind of pivotal role of redemption that we just haven't seen yet. Although I think that will be in the war up North, not in King's landing. |
You and I are thinking the same way re: Arya and LF. He's going to have a very bad day at some point up North. Looks like Sansa will play him along for a while until she no longer needs him. At that point I'm thinking/hoping Arya takes him out. Arya saw him at Harenhal meeting with Tywin when she was Tywin's cupbearer. She knows he's no friend of their family.
I don't really buy that there's much conflict between Jon and Sansa. They need to figure out how to have a private meeting before appearing in front of the assembled Northern Lords, but there is a lot of trust and respect between them. Not worried about Sansa undermining him at all. Even though she's worried about Dany, who may be their enemy, she's also worried about Cersei, and there's no doubt Cersei is their enemy. She should have seen the value in teaming up with Dany beyond the fight vs the Nights King. |
It would indeed be very fulfilling to see the Starks sisters play LF the way he has played so many . . . and then have Arya "needle" him.
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
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