| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
AY2043
Franchise Player
Joined: 26 Feb 2012
Posts: 10621
|
 Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:27 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| babyskyhook wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: | | numero-ocho wrote: | | AY2043 wrote: | So I'm just going to assume that Jon is going to die sooner rather than later.
Between the King in the North scene, choking out LF as Ned did in season 1 (in front of Ned's (bleep) tomb no less), and now leaving Sansa in charge of Winterfell -- as Ned did Cat -- while riding South, they're almost overdoing this "following in the footsteps of dead men" metaphor.
Great episode though |
I can't see the point of bringing Jon back from the dead, surviving the Battle of the Bastards, revealing he has Targaryan blood, and the Red Woman telling Daenerys he's vital to war with the White Walkers just so he could be murdered by Littlefinger. |
Yeah, his arc from banished bastard to where he is at this point is far too monumental and intricate that killing him off too soon in that arc would be pointless. |
Agreed. My read on this is that everything south of the Wall has been a fun distraction for six years, but that the ultimate story has always been pointing to Jon and whoever his allies are vs the Nights King/White Walkers/ Army of the Dead.
You don't go through all the trouble to set Jon up in this way only to kill him off and have someone else lead the battle vs the WW. |
Again, it still begs the question of why all the obvious parallels b/w Jon and Ned/Robb? There's a reason behind it -- there has to be. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
babyskyhook
Franchise Player
Joined: 15 Jul 2009
Posts: 18492
Location: The Garden Island
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:27 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| DaMuleRules wrote: | | babyskyhook wrote: | | LakerSanity wrote: | The predictable outcome of the Sansa story line is being tempted by little finger to help her assert her right to the "thrown" by betraying John, some signs she may be tempted and then, ultimately, aligning with her brother and killing little finger herself.
However, what I would think would be pretty cool is Arya seeing with little finger is doing once she gets North and her killing him (sooner rather than later). I see Arya as the Stark protector, so that could easily happen.
And, by the way, even if Arya doesn't kill Cersia herself, wouldn't it be bad add if she somehow figures out a way to kill the Mountain?
I also see the Hound coming back into all this and playing some kind of pivotal role of redemption that we just haven't seen yet. Although I think that will be in the war up North, not in King's landing. |
You and I are thinking the same way re: Arya and LF. He's going to have a very bad day at some point up North. Looks like Sansa will play him along for a while until she no longer needs him. At that point I'm thinking/hoping Arya takes him out. Arya saw him at Harenhal meeting with Tywin when she was Tywin's cupbearer. She knows he's no friend of their family.
I don't really buy that there's much conflict between Jon and Sansa. They need to figure out how to have a private meeting before appearing in front of the assembled Northern Lords, but there is a lot of trust and respect between them. Not worried about Sansa undermining him at all. Even though she's worried about Dany, who may be their enemy, she's also worried about Cersei, and there's no doubt Cersei is their enemy. She should have seen the value in teaming up with Dany beyond the fight vs the Nights King. |
It would indeed be very fulfilling to see the Starks sisters play LF the way he has played so many . . . and then have Arya "needle" him. |
 I like the new term.
Did you catch in the first episode this season when Sam was reading about Dragon glass and talking about how the Valaryians used it to decorate their weapons ? One of the pages had a huge drawing of what looked an awful lot like LF's dagger that was used in the attempt to kill Bran in season one. Foreshadowing ?
Speaking of the attempt on Bran, IIRC, we know the Lannisters didn't do it from Tyrion's conversation with Jamie and Cersei at Winterfell. LF's denial always seemed weak. And we now know that he is the one who was pitting the Starks and Lannisters against each other using Liza Ayren as a pawn. If we assume it wasn't Jamie and Cersei, LF is the most likely suspect, as it was another step in getting the Starks to go to war with the Lannisters, which is what he was trying to accomplish. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
JerryMagicKobe
Moderator
Joined: 28 Jul 2005
Posts: 15100
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:28 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| gng930 wrote: | | focus wrote: | I think Queen's justice could mean Cersei on the Dornish mom, plenty of room for a good dramatic end there, and whatever that means, Dorne is already in flux with the ships all burned.
The fleet destroyed is a big deal that has set plans back bigtime. |
Yeah Dornish mom killed Cersei's only daughter. Now Cersei has her and her lone surviving daughter captured alive.
The destruction of her fleet now necessitates an alliance with Jon. Her dragons for his men. |
I'm anxious for Jon Snow to meet the dragons and claim one. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
DaMuleRules
Retired Number
Joined: 10 Dec 2006
Posts: 52653
Location: Making a safety stop at 15 feet.
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:31 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| babyskyhook wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: | | babyskyhook wrote: | | LakerSanity wrote: | The predictable outcome of the Sansa story line is being tempted by little finger to help her assert her right to the "thrown" by betraying John, some signs she may be tempted and then, ultimately, aligning with her brother and killing little finger herself.
However, what I would think would be pretty cool is Arya seeing with little finger is doing once she gets North and her killing him (sooner rather than later). I see Arya as the Stark protector, so that could easily happen.
And, by the way, even if Arya doesn't kill Cersia herself, wouldn't it be bad add if she somehow figures out a way to kill the Mountain?
I also see the Hound coming back into all this and playing some kind of pivotal role of redemption that we just haven't seen yet. Although I think that will be in the war up North, not in King's landing. |
You and I are thinking the same way re: Arya and LF. He's going to have a very bad day at some point up North. Looks like Sansa will play him along for a while until she no longer needs him. At that point I'm thinking/hoping Arya takes him out. Arya saw him at Harenhal meeting with Tywin when she was Tywin's cupbearer. She knows he's no friend of their family.
I don't really buy that there's much conflict between Jon and Sansa. They need to figure out how to have a private meeting before appearing in front of the assembled Northern Lords, but there is a lot of trust and respect between them. Not worried about Sansa undermining him at all. Even though she's worried about Dany, who may be their enemy, she's also worried about Cersei, and there's no doubt Cersei is their enemy. She should have seen the value in teaming up with Dany beyond the fight vs the Nights King. |
It would indeed be very fulfilling to see the Starks sisters play LF the way he has played so many . . . and then have Arya "needle" him. |
I like the new term.
Did you catch in the first episode this season when Sam was reading about Dragon glass and talking about how the Valaryians used it to decorate their weapons ? One of the pages had a huge drawing of what looked an awful lot like LF's dagger that was used in the attempt to kill Bran in season one. Foreshadowing ? |
This is what I was subtly referring to earlier in the thread. There're also other clues out in the ether along this theme, but out of respect for johnnybravo I will not elaborate. 
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
babyskyhook
Franchise Player
Joined: 15 Jul 2009
Posts: 18492
Location: The Garden Island
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:31 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Omar Little wrote: | | LakerSanity wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: | | By the way, the next episode is entitled "The Queen's Justice" . . . so mull on that one for the next 6 days. |
The fair assumption is that is a reference to Dany, given all that just went down to her fleet at the end of the episode. |
Or cersei, since Euron is bringing her the killer of her daughter. |
There may be a double meaning to the title, but at the least, I think we'll see some more of the Mountain delivering payback for Cersei- this time on the Sand Snakes.
Whatever is left of Septa Unella is going to finally get a break. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
AY2043
Franchise Player
Joined: 26 Feb 2012
Posts: 10621
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:32 pm Post subject: |
|
|
It's certainly going to take some convincing on Jon's part to get Dany to turn her attention on the Night King. She's been so singularly focused on the Iron throne throughout the series that I doubt she drops everything to help Jon fight a war against an entity that many still doubt even exists. And on the other hand, I doubt she convinces Jon to drop everything in the North and use his resources to help her fight Cersei, thus depleting their forces before they turn their attention to the Noght King.
Their meeting should be one of the most interesting events of the series. So many ways it could go |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
DaMuleRules
Retired Number
Joined: 10 Dec 2006
Posts: 52653
Location: Making a safety stop at 15 feet.
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:36 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| AY2043 wrote: | It's certainly going to take some convincing on Jon's part to get Dany to turn her attention on the Night King. She's been so singularly focused on the Iron throne throughout the series that I doubt she drops everything to help Jon fight a war against an entity that many still doubt even exists. And on the other hand, I doubt she convinces Jon to drop everything in the North and use his resources to help her fight Cersei, thus depleting their forces before they turn their attention to the Noght King.
Their meeting should be one of the most interesting events of the series. So many ways it could go |
Possibly the reason for her downfall? Should that occur?
It would be the ultimate "justice" for her singular and completely selfish attempt to march to ultimate power. I mean she claims to be about "the people", but in reality it has always been about "me".
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
loslakersss
Franchise Player
Joined: 31 Dec 2008
Posts: 11853
Location: LA
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:38 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| JerryMagicKobe wrote: | | gng930 wrote: | | focus wrote: | I think Queen's justice could mean Cersei on the Dornish mom, plenty of room for a good dramatic end there, and whatever that means, Dorne is already in flux with the ships all burned.
The fleet destroyed is a big deal that has set plans back bigtime. |
Yeah Dornish mom killed Cersei's only daughter. Now Cersei has her and her lone surviving daughter captured alive.
The destruction of her fleet now necessitates an alliance with Jon. Her dragons for his men. |
I'm anxious for Jon Snow to meet the dragons and claim one. |
Ohhhh I hadnt thought of that.  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
babyskyhook
Franchise Player
Joined: 15 Jul 2009
Posts: 18492
Location: The Garden Island
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:46 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| AY2043 wrote: | | babyskyhook wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: | | numero-ocho wrote: | | AY2043 wrote: | So I'm just going to assume that Jon is going to die sooner rather than later.
Between the King in the North scene, choking out LF as Ned did in season 1 (in front of Ned's (bleep) tomb no less), and now leaving Sansa in charge of Winterfell -- as Ned did Cat -- while riding South, they're almost overdoing this "following in the footsteps of dead men" metaphor.
Great episode though |
I can't see the point of bringing Jon back from the dead, surviving the Battle of the Bastards, revealing he has Targaryan blood, and the Red Woman telling Daenerys he's vital to war with the White Walkers just so he could be murdered by Littlefinger. |
Yeah, his arc from banished bastard to where he is at this point is far too monumental and intricate that killing him off too soon in that arc would be pointless. |
Agreed. My read on this is that everything south of the Wall has been a fun distraction for six years, but that the ultimate story has always been pointing to Jon and whoever his allies are vs the Nights King/White Walkers/ Army of the Dead.
You don't go through all the trouble to set Jon up in this way only to kill him off and have someone else lead the battle vs the WW. |
Again, it still begs the question of why all the obvious parallels b/w Jon and Ned/Robb? There's a reason behind it -- there has to be. |
There are some, but there are differences too.
The fact that he's going to meet with Dany is already a break from Ned. Look at how the rest of the Northerners reacted. Ned had chances to ally himself with Renly to take down Cersei and passed because he was more concerned with honor than with the result. Jon is doing the opposite by going to see Dany. It's not dishonorable, but everyone else thinks it's unwise, while he's focused on the result.
I also think they were setting up him not listening to Sansa to pay it off later where he will listen to her. She's worth listening to, and they'll make a good team once they learn how to have a pre-meeting get together to talk stuff over instead of arguing in front of the nobles. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
babyskyhook
Franchise Player
Joined: 15 Jul 2009
Posts: 18492
Location: The Garden Island
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:51 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| AY2043 wrote: | It's certainly going to take some convincing on Jon's part to get Dany to turn her attention on the Night King. She's been so singularly focused on the Iron throne throughout the series that I doubt she drops everything to help Jon fight a war against an entity that many still doubt even exists. And on the other hand, I doubt she convinces Jon to drop everything in the North and use his resources to help her fight Cersei, thus depleting their forces before they turn their attention to the Noght King.
Their meeting should be one of the most interesting events of the series. So many ways it could go |
With the Red Witch and Tyrion already paving the way, I think it will go well, especially because most if not all of the men in power that Dany has met have been complete d-bags. Jon will come across in a much different way that she'll be receptive to. When she sees that he doesn't give a (bleep) about the Iron Throne and is totally focused on the WW, I think she'll give him all the dragon glass he wants. She's still going to want to go for the Iron Throne, but I can see her giving him resources (except her dragons).
I have to think we'll see Dragons vs WWs eventually though. Seems like that what we're heading to next year. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
tox
Franchise Player
Joined: 16 Nov 2015
Posts: 17876
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:56 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| numero-ocho wrote: | Loved that opening scene in the strategy room on Dragonstone with many of the major players in the game of thrones and next week we'll get Jon Snow added to the mix. Diana Rigg continues to stand out in every scene she's in.
What a great choice to cast her as the Queen of Thorns.
The only part that had me shaking my head was how come Varys' spies didn't know about Euron's fleet? How does an armada of ships sail in and out of King's Landing without him knowing about it?
I've been railing about Sam's storyline for the last two years but tonight's episode is the first time it actually had some meaning.
As far as west coast spoilers, I'm on the west coast as well. This thread has been open for six years now and GoT has aired at the same time on Sundays since the start. Anyone who participates in this thread and watches the show should know to avoid it if they see its been updated on Sunday night and they're not caught up. |
yes |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
tox
Franchise Player
Joined: 16 Nov 2015
Posts: 17876
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 1:07 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| LakerSanity wrote: | | I could see an ending where Dany doesn't make it out alive, and Jon is the only one left to rule. I could also see Dany and Jon falling in love before that happens. If the show stays true to form, it will happen with a bitter sweet ending. I almost feel as though any ending where both Jon and Dany survive is one that is too "happy" for GOT. |
Speaking of which, marriage is the only solution to the upcoming Jon/Dany conflict:
Dany requires that Jon bends the knee for her to assist him.
Jon can't bend to another Southern ruler -- the Northerners won't accept that. But he needs Dany's forces to even have a hope of defeating the Others.
The two getting married is the easiest way to form an alliance that works for both parties. And IIRC Dany spoke in Season 6 to Dario about how she needs to be unmarried so she has another diplomatic tool to win over Westeros. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
tox
Franchise Player
Joined: 16 Nov 2015
Posts: 17876
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 1:12 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Other thoughts:
I don't know what LF is up to but I think people here are underestimating him. It seemed like he was deliberately trying to find a "weakness" of Jon, which is why he brought up his (creepy) interest in Sansa. He had nothing to gain from bringing it up otherwise. Of course, discovering that Jon is protective of Sansa isn't exactly brilliant detective work so I'm not sure what his end goal.
After the Dorne/Iron Islands loss, I expect Dany is going to listen to Olenna and just straight up attack King's Landing with the dragons, Dothraki, and Unsullied (even though that'll rally houses like the Tarlys to Cersei's side). I'd expect that to be the penultimate episode of the season. Not sure what the casualties will be on Dany's side but I expect Cersei to go down in this season's finale (hopefully by Jaime's sword... though I'm growing increasingly disappointed with Jaime).
Nymeria is sooo (bleep) cute
Last edited by tox on Mon Jul 24, 2017 1:24 pm; edited 2 times in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
numero-ocho
Franchise Player
Joined: 27 Jul 2004
Posts: 18202
Location: Los Angeles, CA
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 1:13 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| focus wrote: | .
On another note, do none of the Starks know how Littlefinger betrayed Ned at King's Landing in S1? Had to be addressed somewhere along the line.
|
Both Arya and Sansa were in King's Landing when Littlefinger made his play but I don't think his fate is cut and dried yet. He betrayed Ned to the Lannisters but gave his bones back to Catelyn so she could bury him at Winterfell, He gave Sansa to the Boltons but later saved both her and Jon. He also saved Arya by not revealing her identity to Tywin when she was captured by the Lannisters.
With Jon and Davos heading to Dragonstone, the Wildlings headed to the Wall, and Sansa undermining Jon's leadership among the northern houses maybe this where Littlefinger makes his move to take Winterfell with his own army. I could then see where Arya would have a role to play in that story. She snuck right into Walder Frey's house and killed them all.
_________________
"Suck it up. Don't be a baby. Do your job." - Kobe Bryant |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
numero-ocho
Franchise Player
Joined: 27 Jul 2004
Posts: 18202
Location: Los Angeles, CA
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 1:26 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| tox wrote: | Other thoughts:
I don't know what LF is up to but I think people here are underestimating him. It seemed like he was deliberately trying to find a "weakness" of Jon, which is why he brought up his (creepy) interest in Sansa. He had nothing to gain from bringing it up otherwise. Of course, discovering that Jon is protective of Sansa isn't exactly brilliant detective work so I'm not sure what his end goal.
After the Dorne/Iron Islands loss, I expect Dany is going to listen to Olenna and just straight up lay siege to King's Landing with the dragons, Dothraki, and Unsullied (even though that'll rally houses like the Tarlys to Cersei's side). I'd expect that to be the penultimate episode of the season. Not sure what the casualties will be on Dany's side but I expect Cersei to go down in this season's finale (hopefully by Jaime's sword... though I'm growing increasingly disappointed with Jaime).
Nymeria is sooo (bleep) cute |
Interesting. It would be so typical of Littlefinger to do that.
After the disaster with the Iron Fleet I was thinking this was the second time Tyrion's plan backfired. Remember his treaty with the Wise Masters back in Essos?
_________________
"Suck it up. Don't be a baby. Do your job." - Kobe Bryant |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
babyskyhook
Franchise Player
Joined: 15 Jul 2009
Posts: 18492
Location: The Garden Island
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 1:33 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| tox wrote: | | numero-ocho wrote: |
The only part that had me shaking my head was how come Varys' spies didn't know about Euron's fleet? How does an armada of ships sail in and out of King's Landing without him knowing about it?
|
yes |
Agreed. That was a major mistake. Varys would/should have known.
They all should have known Euron had a fleet. Yara and Theon raced to get to Dany first. They knew he wasn't just going to retire in the Iron Islands.
The first thing Dany's team should have done was taken the three dragons and burned Euron's fleet so that they could have had complete control of the sea, given how important naval power is to their plans.
Oh well, I'll just put it in the category of "rare misses" for the show, like when Arya was wandering around Bravos and got shanked by the waif. Another really bad miss. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
AY2043
Franchise Player
Joined: 26 Feb 2012
Posts: 10621
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 1:42 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| tox wrote: | Other thoughts:
I don't know what LF is up to but I think people here are underestimating him. It seemed like he was deliberately trying to find a "weakness" of Jon, which is why he brought up his (creepy) interest in Sansa. He had nothing to gain from bringing it up otherwise. Of course, discovering that Jon is protective of Sansa isn't exactly brilliant detective work so I'm not sure what his end goal.
|
The look on LF's face when Jon leaves Sansa in charge says it all. He's got something up his sleeve here. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
dood23
Franchise Player
Joined: 16 Jun 2010
Posts: 12084
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 1:42 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| AY2043 wrote: | | Again, it still begs the question of why all the obvious parallels b/w Jon and Ned/Robb? There's a reason behind it -- there has to be. |
they have to remind people of all the things that ned and robb did wrong, to show that jon is doing it right
_________________
"There's only 2 dudes better than me, and I'm BOTH OF THEM." |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Jhin0821
Starting Rotation
Joined: 06 Feb 2017
Posts: 279
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 2:04 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Euron went in his William Wallace mode |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
numero-ocho
Franchise Player
Joined: 27 Jul 2004
Posts: 18202
Location: Los Angeles, CA
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 2:30 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| tox wrote: |
The two getting married is the easiest way to form an alliance that works for both parties. And IIRC Dany spoke in Season 6 to Dario about how she needs to be unmarried so she has another diplomatic tool to win over Westeros. |
As creepy as the thought may be of Daenerys marrying her nephew Jon, the list of bachelor lords of the Seven Kingdoms has gotten quite small (no pun intended towards Tyrion) over the past six years.
Dorne: all dead
The Reach: all dead
The Stormlands: all dead
The Riverlands: Edmure Tully already married to Roslyn Frey
The Rock: Tyrion who may or may not still be married to Sansa
The Vale: Robyn Arryn
The North: Jon or Bran
_________________
"Suck it up. Don't be a baby. Do your job." - Kobe Bryant |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Vishnu
Franchise Player
Joined: 24 Jun 2005
Posts: 16558
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 2:33 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| numero-ocho wrote: | | tox wrote: |
The two getting married is the easiest way to form an alliance that works for both parties. And IIRC Dany spoke in Season 6 to Dario about how she needs to be unmarried so she has another diplomatic tool to win over Westeros. |
As creepy as the thought may be of Daenerys marrying her nephew Jon, the list of bachelor lords of the Seven Kingdoms has gotten quite small (no pun intended towards Tyrion) over the past six years.
Dorne: all dead
The Reach: all dead
The Stormlands: all dead
The Riverlands: Edmure Tully already married to Roslyn Frey
The Rock: Tyrion who may or may not still be married to Sansa
The Vale: Robyn Arryn
The North: Jon or Bran |
Gendry for the Stormlands. Illegitimate I know but Jon could be as well. There is some discussion as to whether Rhaegar and Lyanna were married. Bigamy but apparently it's ok. There's also Euron from the Iron Islands. Theon as well but he doesn't have his parts. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
numero-ocho
Franchise Player
Joined: 27 Jul 2004
Posts: 18202
Location: Los Angeles, CA
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 2:49 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Vishnu wrote: | | numero-ocho wrote: | | tox wrote: |
The two getting married is the easiest way to form an alliance that works for both parties. And IIRC Dany spoke in Season 6 to Dario about how she needs to be unmarried so she has another diplomatic tool to win over Westeros. |
As creepy as the thought may be of Daenerys marrying her nephew Jon, the list of bachelor lords of the Seven Kingdoms has gotten quite small (no pun intended towards Tyrion) over the past six years.
Dorne: all dead
The Reach: all dead
The Stormlands: all dead
The Riverlands: Edmure Tully already married to Roslyn Frey
The Rock: Tyrion who may or may not still be married to Sansa
The Vale: Robyn Arryn
The North: Jon or Bran |
Gendry for the Stormlands. Illegitimate I know but Jon could be as well. There is some discussion as to whether Rhaegar and Lyanna were married. Bigamy but apparently it's ok. There's also Euron from the Iron Islands. Theon as well but he doesn't have his parts. |
Oh yeah. Forgot about him. Jon was named King by the North and he was known by people who lived there as having Ned's blood. There aren't a lot of legitimate people who can testify to Gendry's bloodlines.
The Greyjoys aren't one of the major houses of Westeros.
I was really half joking with that post. I'm sure the writers could just invent a new lord or prince for the ones who died.
_________________
"Suck it up. Don't be a baby. Do your job." - Kobe Bryant |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
babyskyhook
Franchise Player
Joined: 15 Jul 2009
Posts: 18492
Location: The Garden Island
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 3:00 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| numero-ocho wrote: | | tox wrote: |
The two getting married is the easiest way to form an alliance that works for both parties. And IIRC Dany spoke in Season 6 to Dario about how she needs to be unmarried so she has another diplomatic tool to win over Westeros. |
As creepy as the thought may be of Daenerys marrying her nephew Jon, the list of bachelor lords of the Seven Kingdoms has gotten quite small (no pun intended towards Tyrion) over the past six years.
Dorne: all dead
The Reach: all dead
The Stormlands: all dead
The Riverlands: Edmure Tully already married to Roslyn Frey
The Rock: Tyrion who may or may not still be married to Sansa
The Vale: Robyn Arryn
The North: Jon or Bran |
Jon's also the only one who would bring anything of real value to the equation, given that she's already got Dorne and the Reach in her alliance, and no one else seems to have an army of any real significance except those on team Cersei. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Vishnu
Franchise Player
Joined: 24 Jun 2005
Posts: 16558
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 3:08 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| numero-ocho wrote: | | Vishnu wrote: | | numero-ocho wrote: | | tox wrote: |
The two getting married is the easiest way to form an alliance that works for both parties. And IIRC Dany spoke in Season 6 to Dario about how she needs to be unmarried so she has another diplomatic tool to win over Westeros. |
As creepy as the thought may be of Daenerys marrying her nephew Jon, the list of bachelor lords of the Seven Kingdoms has gotten quite small (no pun intended towards Tyrion) over the past six years.
Dorne: all dead
The Reach: all dead
The Stormlands: all dead
The Riverlands: Edmure Tully already married to Roslyn Frey
The Rock: Tyrion who may or may not still be married to Sansa
The Vale: Robyn Arryn
The North: Jon or Bran |
Gendry for the Stormlands. Illegitimate I know but Jon could be as well. There is some discussion as to whether Rhaegar and Lyanna were married. Bigamy but apparently it's ok. There's also Euron from the Iron Islands. Theon as well but he doesn't have his parts. |
Oh yeah. Forgot about him. Jon was named King by the North and he was known by people who lived there as having Ned's blood. There aren't a lot of legitimate people who can testify to Gendry's bloodlines.
The Greyjoys aren't one of the major houses of Westeros.
I was really half joking with that post. I'm sure the writers could just invent a new lord or prince for the ones who died. |
I think the Greyjoys count as a Major House. They're the Lords of the Iron Islands. I've always considered there to be 9 great houses: Stark, Lannister, Targaryen, Tully, Arryn, Martell, Tyrell, Baratheon, Greyjoy
ASOIAF Wiki that lists the 9 houses I did. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
DaMuleRules
Retired Number
Joined: 10 Dec 2006
Posts: 52653
Location: Making a safety stop at 15 feet.
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 3:10 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| dood23 wrote: | | AY2043 wrote: | | Again, it still begs the question of why all the obvious parallels b/w Jon and Ned/Robb? There's a reason behind it -- there has to be. |
they have to remind people of all the things that ned and robb did wrong, to show that jon is doing it right |
Pretty much how I see it. Being noblemen, Ned and Robb conducted themselves as such and thus did things the the way that tradition and circumstance dictated - not always the best strategy in a climate of less than noble adversaries. Jon is conducting himself with the honor expected of a nobleman, but is doing so accounting for the fact that he is not considered such. And having been exposed to what the life of a "Snow" is, he's afforded a perspective that allows him to make decisions His father and brother couldn't, and to make decisions contrary to obligation. A nobleman like Robb is going to pay the price for ignoring tradition and choosing to marry Talisa instead of meet his obligation with the Frey's. Ned is going to be cast as a "traitor" despite trying to make sure that his King is treated with respect because Cersei doesn't want to be exposed.
Jon is afforded the path to do things the way they should be done, as opposed to the way they need to be done as dictated by others. He can be every bit the man Ned and Robb were, but without the constraints of having to do things the "right" way - he gets to do things the honorable and just way and is not bound by the constraints of lineage. I think that's why we see Jon taking a similar path with differing results.
Stormborn was the name of the first episode of this season, and it's associated with Dany's apparent destiny for greatness. I think Jon is similarly stormborn - an inherent path to greatness not necessarily simply a matter of birth right, but of circumstance - if that makes any sense.
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
