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babyskyhook
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 Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2017 3:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Vishnu wrote: | | babyskyhook wrote: | Re: The Golden Company
GOT doesn't do throwaway lines. There's meaning there.
Iron Bank wants the old debt paid, and with gold now in KL that will be accomplished. But bank also wants new loan, and Cersei wants to hire Golden Co. They wouldn't spend that much time talking about something for it not to pay off. |
I think they do have throwaway lines and scenes. I'm still waiting for Quaithe to come back. |
Fair enough. They don't have throwaway scenes in GOT. Lots of talk about the Golden Co and a new loan with the Iron Bank in a season that is moving very fast for it to not come back later. It's also a way to keep the playing field more level. |
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Vishnu
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| Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2017 3:30 pm Post subject: |
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| babyskyhook wrote: | | Vishnu wrote: | | babyskyhook wrote: | Re: The Golden Company
GOT doesn't do throwaway lines. There's meaning there.
Iron Bank wants the old debt paid, and with gold now in KL that will be accomplished. But bank also wants new loan, and Cersei wants to hire Golden Co. They wouldn't spend that much time talking about something for it not to pay off. |
I think they do have throwaway lines and scenes. I'm still waiting for Quaithe to come back. |
Fair enough. They don't have throwaway scenes in GOT. Lots of talk about the Golden Co and a new loan with the Iron Bank in a season that is moving very fast for it to not come back later. It's also a way to keep the playing field more level. |
I just don't see where it fits in the timeline. 9 episodes left. On top of that, Dany has 3 dragons. Even if one falls, we've seen what just one can do to the Lannister army along with a lot of the Reach. I don't think they're going to bring in sell-swords just to get lit up by Drogon. Been there done that with that type of battle. I think there might be another fight with Euron somewhere, and after that it's all about the White Walkers when it comes to be big battles.
Last edited by Vishnu on Mon Aug 07, 2017 3:41 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Sojo
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| Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2017 3:34 pm Post subject: |
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| numero-ocho wrote: | | Vishnu wrote: | | numero-ocho wrote: | | Vishnu wrote: | | numero-ocho wrote: | | loslakersss wrote: | | Why didn't Dany bail once she saw the steel arrow fly by her? She's an idiot that risked her life and her dragon's life because once again she proves to be an arrogant fool. |
No more of an arrogant fool than Jon Snow charging Ramsay Bolton's army by himself and giving away whatever advantage his army had.
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Foolish, but not arrogant. He was trying to save his "brother". His compassion is a flaw and a strength. |
No. This was after Rickon had already been killed by Ramsay's arrow.
https://youtu.be/tsFeIVJfKsA |
Still not arrogant. He wanted vengeance for his brother. Foolish perhaps. Not arrogant. Many words can describe Jon Snow. Arrogant isn't one of them. |
So why is the only word to describe Daenerys' brand of foolishness "arrogance" and not words like "leadership", "bravery" or "determination"?
Whatever you brand it, Jon's foolishness far outweighed her because he had zero chance of accomplishing anything with that solo charge. |
Not getting hit with those first round of arrows is accomplishing something. |
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2017 5:04 pm Post subject: |
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| babyskyhook wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: | | Omar Little wrote: | | PRLakeShow wrote: | | When Bran says "chaos is a ladder", he's referencing a famous speech Littlefinger delivered to Varys in Season 3, basically describing his whole game plan of using chaos to grow more powerful. |
He's basically revealing to Littlefinger that he knows his game. |
And Littlefinger's look confirms he realizes. |
He was definitely taken aback, but I don't think he has any idea of Bran's powers, or he'd be riding out of Wintefell ASAP.
The other thing he has no idea about is that Arya was Tywin's cupbearer and heard him plotting with Tywin's against Rob Stark back in season 2 (maybe it was season 3). She knows he was actively working against their family.
He's done- he just doesn't realize it yet. It's going to be glorious. |
I wouldn't be too sure. Baelish is a close to the vest character and Gillen is a very subtle actor - a look that obvious would indicate he's catching on.
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2017 5:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Vishnu wrote: | | babyskyhook wrote: | Re: The Golden Company
GOT doesn't do throwaway lines. There's meaning there.
Iron Bank wants the old debt paid, and with gold now in KL that will be accomplished. But bank also wants new loan, and Cersei wants to hire Golden Co. They wouldn't spend that much time talking about something for it not to pay off. |
I think they do have throwaway lines and scenes. I'm still waiting for Quaithe to come back. |
Still. I'd be surprised if at this point in the series they would spend that amount of time on that scene to mention the Golden Company if there wasn't going to be some kind of payoff. It's just wasted screen time at this point and I doubt they are going to waste that screen time on story line that is merely meant to serve as an Easter egg to the book fans.
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Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
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loslakersss
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| Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2017 5:19 pm Post subject: |
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| I don't think they'd spend this much time with the Iron Bank and Mycroft if it wasn't leading somewhere. You don't introduce a new player this late to not use them. |
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2017 5:24 pm Post subject: |
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| loslakersss wrote: | | I don't think they'd spend this much time with the Iron Bank and Mycroft if it wasn't leading somewhere. You don't introduce a new player this late to not use them. |
That was definitely not a throw away scene. Too much subtext there between the loss of interest payments etc. and the particularly the open ended question of the gold actually being received by the Iron Bank, to which Cersei has a visible reaction. We will be hearing about the Golden Company in some form. I would bank on it. 
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You thought God was an architect, now you know
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numero-ocho
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| Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2017 5:29 pm Post subject: |
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| 67ShelbyGT wrote: | | Small detail. Arya told Sansa "you need better guards." |
I enjoyed that scene with Arya at the gates of Winterfell. Obvious call back to the scene from season 1 when a younger Arya was denied entrance to Kings Landing by two rude guards.
https://youtu.be/ekGeFt_Za0s?t=25s
Field of Fire 2.0 was breathtaking but the scenes with Arya's return to Winterfell were great too. I've been waiting for that to happen since Season 2.
What do you think the look on Sansa's face meant after seeing Arya fighting Brienne? She obviously wasn't happy about it.
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67ShelbyGT
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| Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2017 5:36 pm Post subject: |
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| babyskyhook wrote: | Re: The Golden Company
GOT doesn't do throwaway lines. There's meaning there.
Iron Bank wants the old debt paid, and with gold now in KL that will be accomplished. But bank also wants new loan, and Cersei wants to hire Golden Co. They wouldn't spend that much time talking about something for it not to pay off.
I always thought Dany would roll Cersei and that Jon and Dany vs the WW would be the end game. But now it's looking like Cersei might play for time until the Golden Company can enter the picture. Dothraki won't be effective in a siege, and if Dany won't nuke KL with her dragons, Cersei could hold out in KL for a long time.
And if the NK and WWs get South of the Wall, she'll let everyone else use up most of their armies vs the White Walkers and then use the Golden Company mercenaries and the remnants of her army to wipe out the survivors.
Even if Jon and Dany team up, they will take massive losses vs the NK if he gets past the Wall. If they survive, their position will be greatly weakened vs Cersei. If they don't, Cersei won't stand a chance vs NK and WW unless they work wildfire into a useable weapon vs the undead.
It plays into Cersei's character, though, as she has always been the most skeptical of WWs and the undead. If Jon and Dany defeat the NK. it's a brilliant gamble on Cersei's part. If not, she's probably dead anyway. Either way, there's a good chance she's going to be in the game until the end, and could be in a very strong position if events break her way.
All of which is a depressing thought. If we get to the end of all this and it's Cersei vs the Nights King, I'm on team WW all the way.
Hopefully Arya or Jamie kill Cersei before it comes to that. Arya killing her using Jamie's face would be incredible. |
I heard this theory before. Basically she'll pull a fast one. After agreeing to send forces to Dany/Jon in a cease fire / kill WW agreement, she'll let others defeat WWs and then friendly fire on survivors to keep the throne. Sounds very plausible and Cersei-like.
I think end-game is going to be in the Isle of Faces. It has a very rich history in the books. Contains the last of Weirwood trees. It also is very close to Howland Reed's house. I think we'll see the Reeds again next season.
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67ShelbyGT
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| Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2017 5:42 pm Post subject: |
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| numero-ocho wrote: | | 67ShelbyGT wrote: | | Small detail. Arya told Sansa "you need better guards." |
I enjoyed that scene with Arya at the gates of Winterfell. Obvious call back to the scene from season 1 when a younger Arya was denied entrance to Kings Landing by two rude guards.
https://youtu.be/ekGeFt_Za0s?t=25s
Field of Fire 2.0 was breathtaking but the scenes with Arya's return to Winterfell were great too. I've been waiting for that to happen since Season 2.
What do you think the look on Sansa's face meant after seeing Arya fighting Brienne? She obviously wasn't happy about it. |
Yeah she had 2 looks of concern there. First when Arya mentioned to Brienne that she swore to protect both Stark grils. Second was seeing how gangsta Arya is.
I think they are just misdirecting us with all this Stark in-fighting bs. Sansa is the catalyst they are using for us to believe this civil war. Sansa vs Jon, now Sansa vs Arya. Non-starter. All just a buildup to that Sansa speech (Ned's words originally) about lone wolf dies but wolf-pack survives. She probably says that to LF right before Arya executes him.
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2017 5:54 pm Post subject: |
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| numero-ocho wrote: | | 67ShelbyGT wrote: | | Small detail. Arya told Sansa "you need better guards." |
I enjoyed that scene with Arya at the gates of Winterfell. Obvious call back to the scene from season 1 when a younger Arya was denied entrance to Kings Landing by two rude guards.
https://youtu.be/ekGeFt_Za0s?t=25s
Field of Fire 2.0 was breathtaking but the scenes with Arya's return to Winterfell were great too. I've been waiting for that to happen since Season 2.
What do you think the look on Sansa's face meant after seeing Arya fighting Brienne? She obviously wasn't happy about it. |
I didn't read unhappy at all. I saw more of a look of questioning interest - "What has become of my sister?" When combined with the reaction to the "Most of them are dead line", I think it's clear that Sansa is more than OK with Arya's new skills and deadly demeanor.
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
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ExPatLkrFan
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| Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2017 6:09 pm Post subject: |
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| 67ShelbyGT wrote: | | babyskyhook wrote: | Re: The Golden Company
GOT doesn't do throwaway lines. There's meaning there.
Iron Bank wants the old debt paid, and with gold now in KL that will be accomplished. But bank also wants new loan, and Cersei wants to hire Golden Co. They wouldn't spend that much time talking about something for it not to pay off.
I always thought Dany would roll Cersei and that Jon and Dany vs the WW would be the end game. But now it's looking like Cersei might play for time until the Golden Company can enter the picture. Dothraki won't be effective in a siege, and if Dany won't nuke KL with her dragons, Cersei could hold out in KL for a long time.
And if the NK and WWs get South of the Wall, she'll let everyone else use up most of their armies vs the White Walkers and then use the Golden Company mercenaries and the remnants of her army to wipe out the survivors.
Even if Jon and Dany team up, they will take massive losses vs the NK if he gets past the Wall. If they survive, their position will be greatly weakened vs Cersei. If they don't, Cersei won't stand a chance vs NK and WW unless they work wildfire into a useable weapon vs the undead.
It plays into Cersei's character, though, as she has always been the most skeptical of WWs and the undead. If Jon and Dany defeat the NK. it's a brilliant gamble on Cersei's part. If not, she's probably dead anyway. Either way, there's a good chance she's going to be in the game until the end, and could be in a very strong position if events break her way.
All of which is a depressing thought. If we get to the end of all this and it's Cersei vs the Nights King, I'm on team WW all the way.
Hopefully Arya or Jamie kill Cersei before it comes to that. Arya killing her using Jamie's face would be incredible. |
I heard this theory before. Basically she'll pull a fast one. After agreeing to send forces to Dany/Jon in a cease fire / kill WW agreement, she'll let others defeat WWs and then friendly fire on survivors to keep the throne. Sounds very plausible and Cersei-like.
I think end-game is going to be in the Isle of Faces. It has a very rich history in the books. Contains the last of Weirwood trees. It also is very close to Howland Reed's house. I think we'll see the Reeds again next season. |
Howland Reed is also the only one that can confirm the truth of John Snows ancestry. |
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2017 6:09 pm Post subject: |
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| 67ShelbyGT wrote: | | numero-ocho wrote: | | 67ShelbyGT wrote: | | Small detail. Arya told Sansa "you need better guards." |
I enjoyed that scene with Arya at the gates of Winterfell. Obvious call back to the scene from season 1 when a younger Arya was denied entrance to Kings Landing by two rude guards.
https://youtu.be/ekGeFt_Za0s?t=25s
Field of Fire 2.0 was breathtaking but the scenes with Arya's return to Winterfell were great too. I've been waiting for that to happen since Season 2.
What do you think the look on Sansa's face meant after seeing Arya fighting Brienne? She obviously wasn't happy about it. |
Yeah she had 2 looks of concern there. First when Arya mentioned to Brienne that she swore to protect both Stark grils. Second was seeing how gangsta Arya is.
I think they are just misdirecting us with all this Stark in-fighting bs. Sansa is the catalyst they are using for us to believe this civil war. Sansa vs Jon, now Sansa vs Arya. Non-starter. All just a buildup to that Sansa speech (Ned's words originally) about lone wolf dies but wolf-pack survives. She probably says that to LF right before Arya executes him. |
I don't see any of this as infighting nor do I think that there is any misdirect going on with the storytelling. All these young Stark characters were fractured when they were kids. They have all gone on their separate journeys where they have suffered cruelties and faced and overcome incredible challenges as individuals who were never sure if they would ever really see their siblings again. Now that they have started two reunite, they are doing so as completely different people. They have risen to the occasion and become compelling individuals and independent adults, if not in age, in wisdom and experience. There is clearly a love and a bond between all of them. Anything that appears otherwise is simply a matter of becoming reacquainted with long lost loved ones and trying to figure out how they all fit together again.
I don't see any dissension amongst the remaining Starks. Quite the opposite. I see a collection of siblings who coming back together as a whole new family with a whole new set of skills and wisdom.
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
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loslakersss
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| Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2017 6:19 pm Post subject: |
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When Jon first encountered a WW in Castle Black, he grabbed a lantern from Commander Mormont to throw at the WW and burned his hand (or at least screamed as he was burned). So is he not a "dragon", similar to Viscerys?
Also, re-watching old episodes and wow, was there ever a more boring arc than Qarth? |
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kikanga
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| Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2017 7:20 pm Post subject: |
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| DaMuleRules wrote: | | 67ShelbyGT wrote: |
Yeah she had 2 looks of concern there. First when Arya mentioned to Brienne that she swore to protect both Stark grils. Second was seeing how gangsta Arya is.
I think they are just misdirecting us with all this Stark in-fighting bs. Sansa is the catalyst they are using for us to believe this civil war. Sansa vs Jon, now Sansa vs Arya. Non-starter. All just a buildup to that Sansa speech (Ned's words originally) about lone wolf dies but wolf-pack survives. She probably says that to LF right before Arya executes him. |
I don't see any of this as infighting nor do I think that there is any misdirect going on with the storytelling. All these young Stark characters were fractured when they were kids. They have all gone on their separate journeys where they have suffered cruelties and faced and overcome incredible challenges as individuals who were never sure if they would ever really see their siblings again. Now that they have started two reunite, they are doing so as completely different people. They have risen to the occasion and become compelling individuals and independent adults, if not in age, in wisdom and experience. There is clearly a love and a bond between all of them. Anything that appears otherwise is simply a matter of becoming reacquainted with long lost loved ones and trying to figure out how they all fit together again.
I don't see any dissension amongst the remaining Starks. Quite the opposite. I see a collection of siblings who coming back together as a whole new family with a whole new set of skills and wisdom. |
Wasn't Arya always considered too much of a tomboy by the Stark family in season 1? I can't remember. I do remember Ned wanting Arya to act more ladylike.
I saw a face of concern from Sansa. Almost motherly.
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fiendishoc
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| Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2017 7:30 pm Post subject: |
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| numero-ocho wrote: | | 67ShelbyGT wrote: | | Small detail. Arya told Sansa "you need better guards." |
I enjoyed that scene with Arya at the gates of Winterfell. Obvious call back to the scene from season 1 when a younger Arya was denied entrance to Kings Landing by two rude guards.
https://youtu.be/ekGeFt_Za0s?t=25s
Field of Fire 2.0 was breathtaking but the scenes with Arya's return to Winterfell were great too. I've been waiting for that to happen since Season 2.
What do you think the look on Sansa's face meant after seeing Arya fighting Brienne? She obviously wasn't happy about it. |
I saw it as finally realizing that her baby sister is really a cold blooded killer. They spent a lot of time setting it up with the talk about her kill list, which Sansa initially treated as a joke, and then with nervous laughter when she wasn't so sure. |
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Vishnu
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| Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2017 8:29 pm Post subject: |
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| loslakersss wrote: | When Jon first encountered a WW in Castle Black, he grabbed a lantern from Commander Mormont to throw at the WW and burned his hand (or at least screamed as he was burned). So is he not a "dragon", similar to Viscerys?
Also, re-watching old episodes and wow, was there ever a more boring arc than Qarth? |
That was a wight, not a WW.
Martin has said that Targs can burn. What happens with Dany at the pyre was special circumstances. Of course, the show has done it a few times so...
Anyway, Jon getting burnt doesn't mean anything. |
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unleasHell
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| Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2017 9:18 pm Post subject: |
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Nice to finally see the damage a single dragon can do...!
Are we gonna see them melt the White Walkers?
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kikanga
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| Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2017 9:33 pm Post subject: |
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It's crazy to think. But the Stark family is the most powerful family in Westeros.
If motivated to do so, I think Arya could kill anyone. Including Dany. And Bran is pretty much omniscient. With those two working together, you could kill any major player in the Game of Thrones. And now that she has a valerian steel dagger. WWs aren't safe from Arya either.
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TheBlackMamba
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| Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2017 9:37 pm Post subject: |
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I'm getting the feeling that we're not going to get as many plot twists, big deaths, and overall shock factor as we've been conditioned to expect. The "bad guys" have had their wins, and now it's a straight shot to a happy ending. GRRM's source material pretty much ran its course as early as the tail end of Season 5, and the writing and plot is now going wherever Benioff and Weiss plan to take it. Sure, they know how GRRM INTENDS to end the series, but it's clear by now that they have considerable leeway in how they get there (and both parties have hinted that they may just have completely different conclusions to the books and TV show).
So I'm already preparing to expect a lot of fan service and convenient, predictable, and unbelievably quick resolutions to the various storylines in these last few episodes, which IMO the showrunners have been guilty of many times since they went off book. And it's not that I don't love the show, because despite all of this, it's still a (bleep) blast to watch how it all ends after all these years and there are still tons of WOW moments as it unfolds on the screen. But it does seem a bit forced at times now when every character suddenly happens to be in the right place at the right time after several seasons of watching things go horribly wrong (but more believably so) for them all. Maybe it's the constricting of the last two seasons? I still don't understand why they did that...
All I know is that Jaime and/or Bronn don't survive that battle if GRRM is in charge. The story has fallen in the hands of Hollywood writers now, so we're getting the Hollywood version of it. |
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loslakersss
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| Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2017 9:52 pm Post subject: |
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| The season was shortened because the actors all have huge salaries per episode so it's more cost efficient to have fewer episodes and make them a bit longer and more epic. they're basically taking 10 episodes worth of budget to make 6-7 super episodes. |
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loslakersss
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| Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2017 9:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Vishnu wrote: | | loslakersss wrote: | When Jon first encountered a WW in Castle Black, he grabbed a lantern from Commander Mormont to throw at the WW and burned his hand (or at least screamed as he was burned). So is he not a "dragon", similar to Viscerys?
Also, re-watching old episodes and wow, was there ever a more boring arc than Qarth? |
That was a wight, not a WW.
Martin has said that Targs can burn. What happens with Dany at the pyre was special circumstances. Of course, the show has done it a few times so...
Anyway, Jon getting burnt doesn't mean anything. |
ahh okay, that makes sense. |
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PRLakeShow
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| Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2017 10:01 pm Post subject: |
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I for one love the pace. This show needed to move towards a resolution. Also, HBO dramas don't usually, never?, go past 6-7 season. The Wire, The Sopranos, Oz, True Blood, Six Feet Under. Also we don't need filler episodes. We don't need character background episodes and all that stuff anymore. And it was about (bleep) time that the good guys started winning. Absolutely no problem with that.
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Jhin0821
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| Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2017 10:23 pm Post subject: |
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| AY2043 wrote: | | Jhin0821 wrote: | | AY2043 wrote: | | Jhin0821 wrote: | | It was a good episode, but why did Dany have the dragons torch the resource wagons? One would think they could use those. Also, if the Lannister army is so great, why were the unsullied able to tear thru them like Swiss cheese? Why didn't Dany just show up at Cersei's front door a couple episodes ago? Travel time would have been light speed too. |
She presumably controls High garden and the Reach again, so she pretty much has unlimited access to food.
The Unsullied were able to tear through the Lannister army because Jaime intentionally only left a shell force to protect Casterly Rock, while the majority of the Lannister army took Highgarden.
Dany didn't burn King's Landing in to a crisp because she doesn't want to kill a bunch of innocent people. She wanted to do this in this episode after she heard about losing Highgarden, but Jon talked her out of it, saying she'd be just like every other ruler if she were to do it. |
I meant that the unsullied tore thru the Lannister force at Highgarden. Barely any resistance and Dany still ended up torching a grip of people. |
I'm confused. The unsullied were never at Highgarden. The Lannister defeated the Tyrells at HG tho.
Are you talking about the Dothraki tearing thru the Lannisters in this episode? If so, remember that the Lannisters were likely out numbered by the Dothraki hoard, and also recall that the Dothraki in an open field are probably the most deadly warriors on the planet. Not to mention the Lannisters also had to contend with a dragon.. |
My bad, I was referring to Dothraki. They made the Lannister army look like child's play. How could the Lannisters be outnumbered if they didn't leave much at Casterly rock? |
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KeepItRealOrElse
Retired Number
Joined: 11 Oct 2012
Posts: 32767
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| Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2017 10:46 pm Post subject: |
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I don't think Jon and Denaerys will have a romantic relationship , a lot of people think the signs have made it clear they will, though. I think it's just a tease. It's going to be the "fan service" that they won't give - becuase our favorite characters may live, but a fairytale love story as the bookend, they won't give us that too.
I'm interested to see how they surprise us...... We all foresee Denaerys taking the Iron Throne this season, and then a WW battle.. But what else.....
*spoiler*? There's been a theory circulating (might be from insinuation in the books) that Jamie is going to kill Cersei... And there was a comment in dialogue in Ep.1 that also insinuated that, to me.. I think that happens.
I can't wait for the Denaerys/Cercei stare down..... |
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