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DaMuleRules
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 Posted: Tue Apr 23, 2019 11:52 am Post subject: |
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| adkindo wrote: | | Fwiw, I do not care how "woke" it has become to attack Daenerys, I am a fan of her character. |
What a bizarre statement . . . but anyway. So what do you like about the character?
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
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BigGameHames
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| Posted: Tue Apr 23, 2019 12:11 pm Post subject: |
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| adkindo wrote: | | governator wrote: | | You guys are right, Dany's character hasn't grown at all |
since when? It has clearly grown since Episode 1. Fwiw, I do not care how "woke" it has become to attack Daenerys, I am a fan of her character. |
One of the best characters in the show. I guess she’s too popular for some to enjoy. She’s grown through the series and has toed the line between Mad Queen and righteous ruler time and time again. |
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loslakersss
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| Posted: Tue Apr 23, 2019 12:38 pm Post subject: |
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| DaMuleRules wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | | Fwiw, I do not care how "woke" it has become to attack Daenerys, I am a fan of her character. |
What a bizarre statement . . . but anyway. So what do you like about the character? |
I posted a few pages back but here are some things that make the character interesting; Clarke's portrayal of her is another matter where I mostly agree with you.
She is constantly grappling with what she thinks she should do and what she can do. She could have at any moment stormed the Red Keep and won the throne. She could have had Jorah, Tyrion, Jon, or Jaime executed for treason but she always chose to listen to counsel. Even with Jon in the last moment of the last episode - a lot of fans are up in arms because she's only thinking about one thing, her claim to the throne. But I don't think it's as simple as her being petulant or entitle, I think it has to do with her having an identity crisis after finding out everything she's known is untrue. Much like Jon reacted poorly to experiencing the same thing when he was told his whole life he was lied to by his father.
There is a lot within the character but since a lot of it is internal (in the books) and the portrayal isn't that great, it's hard to see the complexity of the character. This piece, while very lengthy, does a remarkable job displaying who Dany: LINK
Her primary internal conflict:
| Quote: |
Dany’s two desires of queenship and companionship run counter and cannot coexist—at least, not easily. Along with the isolating effect of power, a home built on companionship and belonging necessitates trust. The story repeatedly shows how trusting the wrong people can lead to both the loss of power and the loss of one’s life. |
Her reasoning for acquiring the unsullied and how she went about doing it:
| Quote: | A smaller character would have either merely bought the Unsullied or abandoned them. We see these two lesser roads in Jorah and Barristan. Jorah initially advises her to fill out her ranks by purchasing some Unsullied. Barristan publicly questions Daenerys in front of the Masters of Astapor, telling her that buying and using slaves is immoral. One choice is complicit in the system and immoral, the other permits its continuation while preserving individual purity. But neither rises to the level of revolutionary change.
The moment that moves Daenerys most, that convinces her “I will have them all, no matter the price,” is the story of the Unsullied’s training and suffering. |
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Nobody
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| Posted: Tue Apr 23, 2019 12:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Okay, so after one (if not two) seasons they remembered that character building was what got people to like this show in the first place? And proceed with another build-up episode, with only 4 episodes remaining? Not a fan of this, I must admit. |
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loslakersss
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| Posted: Tue Apr 23, 2019 12:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Nobody wrote: | | Okay, so after one (if not two) seasons they remembered that character building was what got people to like this show in the first place? And proceed with another build-up episode, with only 4 episodes remaining? Not a fan of this, I must admit. |
Well this comes right before the biggest battle in TV history. That battle doesn't mean as much without this episode.
I would have loved more episodes of this quality through seasons 5-7 but if we were to only get 1, this was the right time for it. |
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Tue Apr 23, 2019 1:05 pm Post subject: |
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| loslakersss wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | | Fwiw, I do not care how "woke" it has become to attack Daenerys, I am a fan of her character. |
What a bizarre statement . . . but anyway. So what do you like about the character? |
I posted a few pages back but here are some things that make the character interesting; Clarke's portrayal of her is another matter where I mostly agree with you.
She is constantly grappling with what she thinks she should do and what she can do. She could have at any moment stormed the Red Keep and won the throne. She could have had Jorah, Tyrion, Jon, or Jaime executed for treason but she always chose to listen to counsel. Even with Jon in the last moment of the last episode - a lot of fans are up in arms because she's only thinking about one thing, her claim to the throne. But I don't think it's as simple as her being petulant or entitle, I think it has to do with her having an identity crisis after finding out everything she's known is untrue. Much like Jon reacted poorly to experiencing the same thing when he was told his whole life he was lied to by his father.
There is a lot within the character but since a lot of it is internal (in the books) and the portrayal isn't that great, it's hard to see the complexity of the character. This piece, while very lengthy, does a remarkable job displaying who Dany: LINK
Her primary internal conflict:
| Quote: |
Dany’s two desires of queenship and companionship run counter and cannot coexist—at least, not easily. Along with the isolating effect of power, a home built on companionship and belonging necessitates trust. The story repeatedly shows how trusting the wrong people can lead to both the loss of power and the loss of one’s life. |
Her reasoning for acquiring the unsullied and how she went about doing it:
| Quote: | A smaller character would have either merely bought the Unsullied or abandoned them. We see these two lesser roads in Jorah and Barristan. Jorah initially advises her to fill out her ranks by purchasing some Unsullied. Barristan publicly questions Daenerys in front of the Masters of Astapor, telling her that buying and using slaves is immoral. One choice is complicit in the system and immoral, the other permits its continuation while preserving individual purity. But neither rises to the level of revolutionary change.
The moment that moves Daenerys most, that convinces her “I will have them all, no matter the price,” is the story of the Unsullied’s training and suffering. |
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It's interesting that obviously a few people feel defensive about liking the character and feel the need to throw shade at those who don't (not referring to you).
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
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jonnybravo
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| Posted: Tue Apr 23, 2019 3:43 pm Post subject: |
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| BigGameHames wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | | governator wrote: | | You guys are right, Dany's character hasn't grown at all |
since when? It has clearly grown since Episode 1. Fwiw, I do not care how "woke" it has become to attack Daenerys, I am a fan of her character. |
One of the best characters in the show. I guess she’s too popular for some to enjoy. She’s grown through the series and has toed the line between Mad Queen and righteous ruler time and time again. |
What a silly observation. Arya and especially Jon are wildly popular and they don't suffer from even an infinitesimal fraction of the criticism. And for what it's worth, Dany's been panned long before the show came out among readers though not nearly to the level as the television portrayal.
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Huey Lewis & The News
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| Posted: Tue Apr 23, 2019 3:49 pm Post subject: |
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I hate all of the remaining characters except jorah and hound, and even hound's potency as a character has been nerfed so that he's not much more than comic relief.
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BigGameHames
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| Posted: Wed Apr 24, 2019 7:52 am Post subject: |
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| jonnybravo wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | | governator wrote: | | You guys are right, Dany's character hasn't grown at all |
since when? It has clearly grown since Episode 1. Fwiw, I do not care how "woke" it has become to attack Daenerys, I am a fan of her character. |
One of the best characters in the show. I guess she’s too popular for some to enjoy. She’s grown through the series and has toed the line between Mad Queen and righteous ruler time and time again. |
What a silly observation. Arya and especially Jon are wildly popular and they don't suffer from even an infinitesimal fraction of the criticism. And for what it's worth, Dany's been panned long before the show came out among readers though not nearly to the level as the television portrayal. |
Not silly. Going against the grain is popular so it’s natural that a wildly popular character early on would develop a polar opposite of that over the course of the show. Jon and Arya(who is my favorite character) were not as popular early on in the show, nobody was aside from probably Ned.
I have no right to tell anybody what characters they should like. The ambiguity of the characters is the main reason GOT is so wildly popular but when I read that it’s because of character development and growth, I gotta believe there’s other hidden motives. Especially when Jaime is cited who’s followed an extremely generic character growth path. Arrogant rich guy gets his hand(identity) cut off and is humbled by it. Danys development is far more intriguing to me. Slave wife turned Khaleesi then back to a beggar who would’ve been left to die if not for her dragons. Then she becomes a conquerer and righteous queen. Now has become all powerful and is swaying between remaining that righteous queen and becoming a mad queen.
The quality of her character development is the reason for how polarizing she is. Some think she would be the best queen in Westeros history, others believe she is her father and many believe it lies somewhere in between. Jaimes development simply doesn’t compare IMO. He’s a bad guy who turned good because he lost what made him who he was. |
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Wed Apr 24, 2019 9:30 am Post subject: |
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| BigGameHames wrote: |
I have no right to tell anybody what characters they should like. The ambiguity of the characters is the main reason GOT is so wildly popular but when I read that it’s because of character development and growth, I gotta believe there’s other hidden motives. Especially when Jaime is cited who’s followed an extremely generic character growth path. Arrogant rich guy gets his hand(identity) cut off and is humbled by it. Danys development is far more intriguing to me. Slave wife turned Khaleesi then back to a beggar who would’ve been left to die if not for her dragons. Then she becomes a conquerer and righteous queen. Now has become all powerful and is swaying between remaining that righteous queen and becoming a mad queen. |
That's not character development. Those are simply events that happened to her. It becomes character development when those events shape a person who changes over time. Dany has not changed one bit over the course of those events. She is still the selfish, self-important, and spiteful person she was at the beginning. Even when she claims to be doing something honorable for other people, it really is only to serve her own purposes. As I said earlier, part of that is due to Clarke's very limited range, because really, as her story appears in description, you'd think there'd be some growth and shift in the character, but that isn't evident because of Clarke's inability to bring nuance and subtly to her performance. Dany could be an interesting character. She is just embodied by the wrong actor and that was evident early in. Which is why I never liked the character on the show.
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
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BigGameHames
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| Posted: Wed Apr 24, 2019 9:46 am Post subject: |
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| DaMuleRules wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: |
I have no right to tell anybody what characters they should like. The ambiguity of the characters is the main reason GOT is so wildly popular but when I read that it’s because of character development and growth, I gotta believe there’s other hidden motives. Especially when Jaime is cited who’s followed an extremely generic character growth path. Arrogant rich guy gets his hand(identity) cut off and is humbled by it. Danys development is far more intriguing to me. Slave wife turned Khaleesi then back to a beggar who would’ve been left to die if not for her dragons. Then she becomes a conquerer and righteous queen. Now has become all powerful and is swaying between remaining that righteous queen and becoming a mad queen. |
That's not character development. Those are simply events that happened to her. It becomes character development when those events shape a person who changes over time. Dany has not changed one bit over the course of those events. She is still the selfish, self-important, and spiteful person she was at the beginning. Even when she claims to be doing something honorable for other people, it really is only to serve her own purposes. As I said earlier, part of that is due to Clarke's very limited range, because really, as her story appears in description, you'd think there'd be some growth and shift in the character, but that isn't evident because of Clarke's inability to bring nuance and subtly to her performance. Dany could be an interesting character. She is just embodied by the wrong actor and that was evident early in. Which is why I never liked the character on the show. |
That is character development. They are events that shaped the character and her actions. I can see you have a sincere distain for the actor portraying the character and I simply disagree with your assessment of the character. I read the books after watching season two or three so maybe I’m bias but I think she’s done a very good job. Regardless, I think both show and book Khaleesi has changed throughout the series. |
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governator
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| Posted: Wed Apr 24, 2019 9:51 am Post subject: |
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| After getting the Unsullies, Dany's character got boring |
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BigGameHames
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| Posted: Wed Apr 24, 2019 10:02 am Post subject: |
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| governator wrote: | | After getting the Unsullies, Dany's character got boring |
I disagree but I can hear an argument that she somewhat plateaud as a character then. Not before. |
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loslakersss
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| Posted: Wed Apr 24, 2019 10:37 am Post subject: |
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| So how many people think the Night King is going to feign an all out attack on Winterfell while bringing his dragon and other "troops" somewhere else? |
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BigGameHames
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| Posted: Wed Apr 24, 2019 10:47 am Post subject: |
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| loslakersss wrote: | | So how many people think the Night King is going to feign an all out attack on Winterfell while bringing his dragon and other "troops" somewhere else? |
I think he’s going to Kings Landing but not sure it’s with any other troops. |
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adkindo
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| Posted: Wed Apr 24, 2019 12:32 pm Post subject: |
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I see BGH is taking hits on Dany, so I will point out in general, I agree with him that there came a point when it became the "in" thing to dislike the character and actress. Let me be clear, I am not a person with any expertise in film, acting, character development, etc. My interest in film and television is to simply be entertained via laugh, fear, suspense, sympathy, etc. While I acknowledge an absence of expertise in the area, I am not blind to the pattern that almost always takes place among fans of these uber popular shows.
After Season 1, and the death of Ned, Dany quickly rose to being one of the primary faces of the show.....actually, she was the most popular character on the show for a period. Then somewhere around Seasons 3/4 as the show hit an all time high in popularity, the same crowd on Twitter and other media platforms began their snarky comments and campaign against Emilia Clarke/Daenerys....and it was all too familiar. It was largely the group that desperately needs to feel like their sophisticated palate for art, music and all things culture is superior to the commoners merely viewing the show in their Arkansas trailer while stealing their neighbors premium cable. So if those low brow individuals love Daenerys, we must educate them of her faults and remind them that our taste/depth are superior. This leads to the secondary wave of people that want to be part of the group that "gets it", so they cheer and seal clap the virtual takedown of Clarke and her talent. This trend is as reliable as the sun coming up tomorrow.
Am I saying that everyone that feels Clarke/Daenerys is a flawed actress is part of this group...no. In fact, I would have no idea who is and is not, but the repetitive trend leads me to the logical conclusion more are playing their role than are offering original thought. LG is a LA based board, so maybe everyone here does have a deep knowledge of film via profession or hobby and offer original criticism. Globally, I do not believe that is the case. The mass majority are like me in that they simply watch things they find entertaining....that sometimes includes critically acclaimed products, and other times it is simply the newest Rambo. Emilia Clarke is a beautiful young woman with a beautiful smile and other near perfect feminine features.....I feel she is part of what makes the show great, and could not imagine any other Mother of Dragons. |
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governator
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| Posted: Wed Apr 24, 2019 12:38 pm Post subject: |
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So complicated Adkindo
The character got boring, that's pretty much it. I don't read the books nor go to GOT forums, just here at Lakersground. It's not a slight against people who likes her character or its growth lol |
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governator
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| Posted: Wed Apr 24, 2019 12:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Feel good episode last week, somebody gonna die, I'm guessing Brienne/Tormund |
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Wed Apr 24, 2019 1:02 pm Post subject: |
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| governator wrote: | | Feel good episode last week, somebody gonna die, I'm guessing Brienne/Tormund |
Jaime's toast.
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Wed Apr 24, 2019 1:07 pm Post subject: |
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| adkindo wrote: | I see BGH is taking hits on Dany, so I will point out in general, I agree with him that there came a point when it became the "in" thing to dislike the character and actress. Let me be clear, I am not a person with any expertise in film, acting, character development, etc. My interest in film and television is to simply be entertained via laugh, fear, suspense, sympathy, etc. While I acknowledge an absence of expertise in the area, I am not blind to the pattern that almost always takes place among fans of these uber popular shows.
After Season 1, and the death of Ned, Dany quickly rose to being one of the primary faces of the show.....actually, she was the most popular character on the show for a period. Then somewhere around Seasons 3/4 as the show hit an all time high in popularity, the same crowd on Twitter and other media platforms began their snarky comments and campaign against Emilia Clarke/Daenerys....and it was all too familiar. It was largely the group that desperately needs to feel like their sophisticated palate for art, music and all things culture is superior to the commoners merely viewing the show in their Arkansas trailer while stealing their neighbors premium cable. So if those low brow individuals love Daenerys, we must educate them of her faults and remind them that our taste/depth are superior. This leads to the secondary wave of people that want to be part of the group that "gets it", so they cheer and seal clap the virtual takedown of Clarke and her talent. This trend is as reliable as the sun coming up tomorrow.
Am I saying that everyone that feels Clarke/Daenerys is a flawed actress is part of this group...no. In fact, I would have no idea who is and is not, but the repetitive trend leads me to the logical conclusion more are playing their role than are offering original thought. LG is a LA based board, so maybe everyone here does have a deep knowledge of film via profession or hobby and offer original criticism. Globally, I do not believe that is the case. The mass majority are like me in that they simply watch things they find entertaining....that sometimes includes critically acclaimed products, and other times it is simply the newest Rambo. Emilia Clarke is a beautiful young woman with a beautiful smile and other near perfect feminine features.....I feel she is part of what makes the show great, and could not imagine any other Mother of Dragons. |
I'm an editor. My days are spent watching actors and analyzing their performances to try and tell the story in the most interesting and believable manner possible. My distaste for Clarke's acting stems from years of doing that, not to be some part of an internet clique.
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
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kikanga
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| Posted: Wed Apr 24, 2019 1:33 pm Post subject: |
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| adkindo wrote: | After Season 1, and the death of Ned, Dany quickly rose to being one of the primary faces of the show.....actually, she was the most popular character on the show for a period. Then somewhere around Seasons 3/4 as the show hit an all time high in popularity, the same crowd on Twitter and other media platforms began their snarky comments and campaign against Emilia Clarke/Daenerys....and it was all too familiar. It was largely the group that desperately needs to feel like their sophisticated palate for art, music and all things culture is superior to the commoners merely viewing the show in their Arkansas trailer while stealing their neighbors premium cable. So if those low brow individuals love Daenerys, we must educate them of her faults and remind them that our taste/depth are superior. This leads to the secondary wave of people that want to be part of the group that "gets it", so they cheer and seal clap the virtual takedown of Clarke and her talent. This trend is as reliable as the sun coming up tomorrow.
Am I saying that everyone that feels Clarke/Daenerys is a flawed actress is part of this group...no. In fact, I would have no idea who is and is not, but the repetitive trend leads me to the logical conclusion more are playing their role than are offering original thought.LG is a LA based board, so maybe everyone here does have a deep knowledge of film via profession or hobby and offer original criticism. Globally, I do not believe that is the case. The mass majority are like me in that they simply watch things they find entertaining....that sometimes includes critically acclaimed products, and other times it is simply the newest Rambo. Emilia Clarke is a beautiful young woman with a beautiful smile and other near perfect feminine features.....I feel she is part of what makes the show great, and could not imagine any other Mother of Dragons. |
A sheep mentality for some wouldn't surprise me. Not saying the majority of the Dany dislike comes from sheeple. But sure, I could see that being the case for some.
Do you think the same thing applies to generally disliked Walking Dead characters?
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Last edited by kikanga on Wed Apr 24, 2019 1:37 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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BigGameHames
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| Posted: Wed Apr 24, 2019 1:35 pm Post subject: |
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| DaMuleRules wrote: | | governator wrote: | | Feel good episode last week, somebody gonna die, I'm guessing Brienne/Tormund |
Jaime's toast. |
I think he may have to kill wight Brienne. I do think he survives this battle though |
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governator
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| Posted: Wed Apr 24, 2019 1:37 pm Post subject: |
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| BigGameHames wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: | | governator wrote: | | Feel good episode last week, somebody gonna die, I'm guessing Brienne/Tormund |
Jaime's toast. |
I think he may have to kill wight Brienne. I do think he survives this battle though |
Well, if the writer wanna f the soul of everybody watching, they'll kill Dany and have her be the Ice Queen |
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BigGameHames
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| Posted: Wed Apr 24, 2019 1:39 pm Post subject: |
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| DaMuleRules wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | I see BGH is taking hits on Dany, so I will point out in general, I agree with him that there came a point when it became the "in" thing to dislike the character and actress. Let me be clear, I am not a person with any expertise in film, acting, character development, etc. My interest in film and television is to simply be entertained via laugh, fear, suspense, sympathy, etc. While I acknowledge an absence of expertise in the area, I am not blind to the pattern that almost always takes place among fans of these uber popular shows.
After Season 1, and the death of Ned, Dany quickly rose to being one of the primary faces of the show.....actually, she was the most popular character on the show for a period. Then somewhere around Seasons 3/4 as the show hit an all time high in popularity, the same crowd on Twitter and other media platforms began their snarky comments and campaign against Emilia Clarke/Daenerys....and it was all too familiar. It was largely the group that desperately needs to feel like their sophisticated palate for art, music and all things culture is superior to the commoners merely viewing the show in their Arkansas trailer while stealing their neighbors premium cable. So if those low brow individuals love Daenerys, we must educate them of her faults and remind them that our taste/depth are superior. This leads to the secondary wave of people that want to be part of the group that "gets it", so they cheer and seal clap the virtual takedown of Clarke and her talent. This trend is as reliable as the sun coming up tomorrow.
Am I saying that everyone that feels Clarke/Daenerys is a flawed actress is part of this group...no. In fact, I would have no idea who is and is not, but the repetitive trend leads me to the logical conclusion more are playing their role than are offering original thought. LG is a LA based board, so maybe everyone here does have a deep knowledge of film via profession or hobby and offer original criticism. Globally, I do not believe that is the case. The mass majority are like me in that they simply watch things they find entertaining....that sometimes includes critically acclaimed products, and other times it is simply the newest Rambo. Emilia Clarke is a beautiful young woman with a beautiful smile and other near perfect feminine features.....I feel she is part of what makes the show great, and could not imagine any other Mother of Dragons. |
I'm an editor. My days are spent watching actors and analyzing their performances to try and tell the story in the most interesting and believable manner possible. My distaste for Clarke's acting stems from years of doing that, not to be some part of an internet clique. |
No wonder you’re an arrogant bastard in here.
Please don’t suspend me I’ve been waiting for an opportunity to use that joke since I saw the posters logo. He/she clearly knows more about filmmaking etc than me. |
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Wed Apr 24, 2019 1:46 pm Post subject: |
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| BigGameHames wrote: | No wonder you’re an arrogant bastard in here.
Please don’t suspend me I’ve been waiting for an opportunity to use that joke since I saw the posters logo. He/she clearly knows more about filmmaking etc than me. |
The avatar was chosen for a reason. 
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You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
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