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LarryCoon
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PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2019 11:36 am    Post subject:

ribeye wrote:
Omar Little wrote:
LarryCoon wrote:


Either way, I think Arya kills her.


I think it has to be Jon.


Back to backs showing how we all see this differently and have different expectations. If it is Arya, will 24 be disappointed? If it is Jon, Larry? If neither, both of them?


I'm not invested enough.
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PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2019 11:37 am    Post subject:

DaMuleRules wrote:
DrDent wrote:

That doesn’t even make sense to me. Coin flip is one thing, but her character did not come across for me (and others) as anything like what happened when the bell rang. I’m sure we will get some explanation the next episode but as of now i found it nonsensical.


You could see it on Tyrion's face and hear it in his voice when he was discussing the idea of Dany accepting the surrender. He was clearly skeptical that she would actually follow through with allowing the surrender. Go back and watch that scene again and tell me he doesn't look like someone thinking "she's never going to actually let them surrender" . . .


It's very interesting reading your comments (in a good way) - I just dont think we will ever agree. We are watching the same exact thing and coming away with different conclusions. I come to work and roundtable with about 4-5 people and some think like you, some think like me.

I never added up her prior actions as her being capable of going this far. So when they did that, I (and many others) just did not jump with it. And as to your throne room query: no, I did not draw the conclusion that Tyrion's reaction meant "she wont let them surrender"....in fact, I never got the sense she even responded to his request, and they left it open. As I recall, his reaction when the bells rang showed relief - but as Dany continued to just sit on her dragon perched, then I saw him get concerned.

I learned something in a creative writing class many years ago that really makes sense to me now. Never have the characters serve the story; you have the story serve the characters. While you have a general outline of things you like to see happen or a general narrative to come across, that is subject to change if your character progression demands it. It allows for an organic progression and gives a reader /listener better grounding to follow (and less frustration with character action). Without solid grounding, some readers (or more than that) get jolted out of the narrative and begin questioning if it makes sense...once that happens, you can lose an audience.

This show really stayed true to this principle the first 5-6 seasons. The last two seasons have shown more a desire to push shock value moments (eg the story) over the characters...and our very discussion I think proved the professor who taught that principle's point: We're both watching the same thing, drawing two distinct different interpretations because of them putting story over character (the footing of the story is shallow for the turn). We would be having a much different discussion (if one at all) had they marinated the dany-becomes-the-mad-queen meat ball a little longer because those in my camp would not have been jolted out of the narrative for that sequence.

Just my 2 cents. You can continue to defend the show and the decisions, that's fine, but it's clear you and I are just in different camps on this.
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PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2019 11:39 am    Post subject:

just hope Dany goes with the full makeup look for the final episode....the whole this is what I look like when I wake up was not working for me..
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PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2019 11:41 am    Post subject:

I’m not upset with it but it should have been done better. For me it felt a little Anikan Skywalker. Where you know someone has it in them, but it happens just way too suddenly to go from where they are/were to slaughtering younglings in mass. I actually appreciate a lot of things about the episode but that could have been done better.

And when you have a villain as good as Cersei, where you cannot wait to see her get hers ... she has really been out of the picture too much in these episodes and all the satisfaction we get is seeing the smug look on her face change. You really need more build up with her character (Cersei being Cersei at a high level) and then the final resolution would be much more satisfactory. Missed opportunity there...and a big one to miss on.
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PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2019 11:45 am    Post subject:

DancingBarry wrote:
I’m not upset with it but it should have been done better. For me it felt a little Anikan Skywalker. Where you know someone has it in them, but it happens just way too suddenly to go from where they are/were to slaughtering younglings in mass. I actually appreciate a lot of things about the episode but that could have been done better.

And when you have a villain as good as Cersei, where you cannot wait to see her get hers ... she has really been out of the picture too much in these episodes and all the satisfaction we get is seeing the smug look on her face change. You really need more build up with her character (Cersei being Cersei at a high level) and then the final resolution would be much more satisfactory. Missed opportunity there...and a big one to miss on.


Great comparison DB w/ the Anakin turn.
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PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2019 11:59 am    Post subject:

ribeye wrote:
Omar Little wrote:
LarryCoon wrote:


Either way, I think Arya kills her.


I think it has to be Jon.


Back to backs showing how we all see this differently and have different expectations. If it is Arya, will 24 be disappointed? If it is Jon, Larry? If neither, both of them? What if I say I wouldn't be too surprised if Dany kills Jon and Tyrion, I mean it would follow. What if I suggested that the little girl that Varys was talking to about doing the hard thing, poisons Dany?

Whatever will happen, some will guess it right and some will guess it wrong. Some will like it and some won't.

Whatever happens, it has been a great ride, and like they've been saying for centuries, it's not always the destination, but the ride.


Okay, here's my prediction. Jon and Danny have the confrontation, and she's not apologetic in the least, saying, "I told you, it will be fear." Jon gets uppity. Danny sees it as direct treason, and orders Grey Worm to kill him. They fight. Eventually Grey Worm gets the better of him, and as he's about to kill him, Arya jumps through the window (I was going to say, rips off someone's face, but they seem to have dropped that plot element) and puts "the" dagger against Danny's throat. She & Grey Worm have a Mexican standoff. Tyrion says something to Danny that makes her realize what a mistake she made, show remorse, and decide to die. She orders Grey Worm to kill Jon. He does, and that results in Arya killing Danny. Arya and Grey Worm stare awkwardly at each other for a few seconds, and then they start fighting each other. A lot of quick cuts from Arya & Grey Worm fighting, to Tyrion diving underneath everything he can find and trying not to get killed. Cut back to Arya trying an overhead stab. Grey Worm grabs her wrist, and Arya drops the dagger to the other hand. Grey Worm does an, "I've seen this trick before" and grabs her other hand, only -- it was a fake drop! She follows through with the overhead and kills him. Arya and Tyrion stare at each other like, "...lunch?"

Cut to the not-too-far-off future. Richard Harris says, "Rome will be a republic again." Wait, wrong movie....but you get the idea. The first Senate meeting takes place, with Tyrion, Sansa, Bron and Davos all taking part. Fade cut to Brienne as Kwai Chang Caine, wandering the land rooting out injustice. Fade cut to Tormund in the north as the new leader of the Wildlings, repairing the wall so they can all be left alone. Fade cut to Bran in Winterfell, staring at his tree. Fade cut to Sam and Gilly with their new baby, whom they name Jon. Fade cut to Arya sailing off somewhere as the theme music crescendos, and cut to black.

See, I could write this ish....
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PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2019 12:15 pm    Post subject:

My prediction:

Arya kills Danny but not before Jon sacrifices himself to save Arya. He gets stabbed in the throat and dies.

We then cut to Arya writing her story.

"He was stabbed in the throat. He died almost instantly.

Although I hadn't seen him in more than ten years, I know I'll miss him forever.

I never had any friends later on like the ones I had when I was twelve. Jesus, does anyone?"

She finishes her story. Stares at it. Then...okay, so just plug in the end of Stand By Me to however GoT ends.
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PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2019 12:17 pm    Post subject:

How about no one dies and they all just live happily ever after
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PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2019 12:38 pm    Post subject:

LarryCoon wrote:
ribeye wrote:
Omar Little wrote:
LarryCoon wrote:


Either way, I think Arya kills her.


I think it has to be Jon.


Back to backs showing how we all see this differently and have different expectations. If it is Arya, will 24 be disappointed? If it is Jon, Larry? If neither, both of them? What if I say I wouldn't be too surprised if Dany kills Jon and Tyrion, I mean it would follow. What if I suggested that the little girl that Varys was talking to about doing the hard thing, poisons Dany?

Whatever will happen, some will guess it right and some will guess it wrong. Some will like it and some won't.

Whatever happens, it has been a great ride, and like they've been saying for centuries, it's not always the destination, but the ride.


Okay, here's my prediction. Jon and Danny have the confrontation, and she's not apologetic in the least, saying, "I told you, it will be fear." Jon gets uppity. Danny sees it as direct treason, and orders Grey Worm to kill him. They fight. Eventually Grey Worm gets the better of him, and as he's about to kill him, Arya jumps through the window (I was going to say, rips off someone's face, but they seem to have dropped that plot element) and puts "the" dagger against Danny's throat. She & Grey Worm have a Mexican standoff. Tyrion says something to Danny that makes her realize what a mistake she made, show remorse, and decide to die. She orders Grey Worm to kill Jon. He does, and that results in Arya killing Danny. Arya and Grey Worm stare awkwardly at each other for a few seconds, and then they start fighting each other. A lot of quick cuts from Arya & Grey Worm fighting, to Tyrion diving underneath everything he can find and trying not to get killed. Cut back to Arya trying an overhead stab. Grey Worm grabs her wrist, and Arya drops the dagger to the other hand. Grey Worm does an, "I've seen this trick before" and grabs her other hand, only -- it was a fake drop! She follows through with the overhead and kills him. Arya and Tyrion stare at each other like, "...lunch?"

Cut to the not-too-far-off future. Richard Harris says, "Rome will be a republic again." Wait, wrong movie....but you get the idea. The first Senate meeting takes place, with Tyrion, Sansa, Bron and Davos all taking part. Fade cut to Brienne as Kwai Chang Caine, wandering the land rooting out injustice. Fade cut to Tormund in the north as the new leader of the Wildlings, repairing the wall so they can all be left alone. Fade cut to Bran in Winterfell, staring at his tree. Fade cut to Sam and Gilly with their new baby, whom they name Jon. Fade cut to Arya sailing off somewhere as the theme music crescendos, and cut to black.

See, I could write this ish....


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PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2019 12:40 pm    Post subject:

DancingBarry wrote:
My prediction:

Arya kills Danny but not before Jon sacrifices himself to save Arya. He gets stabbed in the throat and dies.

We then cut to Arya writing her story.

"He was stabbed in the throat. He died almost instantly.

Although I hadn't seen him in more than ten years, I know I'll miss him forever.

I never had any friends later on like the ones I had when I was twelve. Jesus, does anyone?"

She finishes her story. Stares at it. Then...okay, so just plug in the end of Stand By Me to however GoT ends.



She closes the book to the first page and it reads "Here and Back Again...A Hobbit's Tale...by Bilbo Baggins"
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PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2019 12:41 pm    Post subject:

https://ballmemes.com/i/seasons-season-season-seasons-7-8-1-4-game-of-thrones-but-7864b521008b4bee96a0091cce7b011e
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PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2019 12:46 pm    Post subject:

loslakersss wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:
loslakersss wrote:

Dragons have been compared to WMD's. And she basically Hiroshima'd Kings Landing. Dany is the equivalent to the U.S. winning the war/displaying power, with no regard for collateral damage.


That analogy doesn't really work. First of all, the US used the atomic bombs on Japan not because they DGAF about collateral damage, they did so as a move to prevent the hundreds of thousands of lives that would have been lost via a land invasion. It was strategic. Dany's move was purely emotional and driven by revenge and hatred.

Perhaps the US comparison was misguided but dragons = WMD's is still true.

Was it revenge/hatred or was it desperation? This was the only way to win the war and display her power to keep her position. Again, I'm not supporting the decision but just trying to understand the character. Her counselors conspiring against her caused the paranoia that resulted in her needing to use fear to remain in power. I don't think she makes this turn if Tyrion and Varys don't do what they did.


Either the dragons are overpowered, or they are not. The show should have made a stance and stuck with it. They kept wavering back and forth in an attempt to throw the audience off course. There are rules in the make-believe world you create and you need to stick to those rules.

In the previous episode, they killed Rhaegal fairly easily with Scorpions pointed in the same general vicinity. D&D even said it set up the next episodes battle to be more even as Dany's dragons were neutralized. Those were their own words and intent. We weren't happy about how easy it was for Euron to kill Rhaegal, but we accepted it as much. Thus, before episode 5, I was expecting a ground battle as the deciding factor. But then to have Dany destroy Euron's entire fleet plus the entire King's Landing defense is outright cheating.

It's like me asking you which two hats will I pull out a rabbit, but then ended up pulling out the rabbit from my ass instead. That's how that episode felt.
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PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2019 12:50 pm    Post subject:

ribeye wrote:
dvdrdiscs wrote:
Worst episode of the entire show by far. Dany's turn wasn't the issue. It's the writing leading up to it. Here's what I found stupid:

1) Golden Company didn't do anything. Yeah, yeah, the dragons obliterated them because Dragons > all. But the Golden Company are elite mercenaries who have never lost a battle. What was the point of the whole scene a few seasons back where Cersei took a huge loan out to get the Golden Company? There was no payoff for the audience to see that the Golden Company are badasses.

2) Scorpions. So they killed Rhaegal with 3 arrows and cannot manage to even get an arrow off after Dany engages. They made Scorpions overpowered in episode 5 to make the fight seem fair. Then they walked it all back in episode 6. Bad writing.

3) Euron's fleet was overpowered and was reduced to rubbish. Why? Why so many inconsistencies? Why does Dany's force even travel on water IF Euron was that strong? His strength is in his ships so why engage at all on water? WHY?

4) Euron washing ashore exactly where Jaime was at the exact moment. OP Euron suddenly became infatuated with killing Jaime. Lazy writing to close Euron's story arc.

5) Jaime sudden change to loving Brienne and sudden change back to Cersei. Yes, I know what the writer was going for in terms of Jaime realizing his fate is tied to Cersei. But the writing was terrible and inconsistent.

6) Cersei dying by debris. Talk about building her up as this evil monster and then taking the easy way out. No satisfaction from her scenes/death.

7) Arya going to the Red Keep and then running away. 15 minutes of her running away. Basically her only role in traveling there was so we can witness the escape of King's Landing from the perspective of someone we care for (according to D&D). Sigh.

8) Inconsistencies of remaining army numbers. Didn't make sense how many Unsullied and Dorathkis were left.

9) Dragons Fire also blows up bricks on impact.

There are so many more things wrong with this episode that I'm tired of typing. I felt like I have committed so much time and emotion into this show for close to 10 years and it has disappointed me like a failed long-term relationship.


I think you might want to avoid the Fantasy genre in the future.


You've maintained this before and as a fan of fantasy and having read hundreds of fantasy novels since I was in elementary school nerd, I have to say that notion is absurd. The good ones were always consistent. You might enjoy this particular episode and cheers to you but to suggest that the fantasy genre is inherently full of inconsistencies is laughable.


But it's got fake dragons in it!

Wtf does that even mean?
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PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2019 12:51 pm    Post subject:

LarryCoon wrote:
ribeye wrote:
Omar Little wrote:
LarryCoon wrote:


Either way, I think Arya kills her.


I think it has to be Jon.


Back to backs showing how we all see this differently and have different expectations. If it is Arya, will 24 be disappointed? If it is Jon, Larry? If neither, both of them?


I'm not invested enough.


Larry is preparing to lose the game of thrones.
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PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2019 12:57 pm    Post subject:

ribeye wrote:
dvdrdiscs wrote:
ribeye wrote:
dvdrdiscs wrote:
Worst episode of the entire show by far. Dany's turn wasn't the issue. It's the writing leading up to it. Here's what I found stupid:

1) Golden Company didn't do anything. Yeah, yeah, the dragons obliterated them because Dragons > all. But the Golden Company are elite mercenaries who have never lost a battle. What was the point of the whole scene a few seasons back where Cersei took a huge loan out to get the Golden Company? There was no payoff for the audience to see that the Golden Company are badasses.

2) Scorpions. So they killed Rhaegal with 3 arrows and cannot manage to even get an arrow off after Dany engages. They made Scorpions overpowered in episode 5 to make the fight seem fair. Then they walked it all back in episode 6. Bad writing.

3) Euron's fleet was overpowered and was reduced to rubbish. Why? Why so many inconsistencies? Why does Dany's force even travel on water IF Euron was that strong? His strength is in his ships so why engage at all on water? WHY?

4) Euron washing ashore exactly where Jaime was at the exact moment. OP Euron suddenly became infatuated with killing Jaime. Lazy writing to close Euron's story arc.

5) Jaime sudden change to loving Brienne and sudden change back to Cersei. Yes, I know what the writer was going for in terms of Jaime realizing his fate is tied to Cersei. But the writing was terrible and inconsistent.

6) Cersei dying by debris. Talk about building her up as this evil monster and then taking the easy way out. No satisfaction from her scenes/death.

7) Arya going to the Red Keep and then running away. 15 minutes of her running away. Basically her only role in traveling there was so we can witness the escape of King's Landing from the perspective of someone we care for (according to D&D). Sigh.

8) Inconsistencies of remaining army numbers. Didn't make sense how many Unsullied and Dorathkis were left.

9) Dragons Fire also blows up bricks on impact.

There are so many more things wrong with this episode that I'm tired of typing. I felt like I have committed so much time and emotion into this show for close to 10 years and it has disappointed me like a failed long-term relationship.


I think you might want to avoid the Fantasy genre in the future.


There's this mindset when people watch movies and tv shows that "It's just a movie/show. You're supposed to suspend your belief." Uhmm... No. Movies/Shows define the rules in their make-believe world. When they break their own rules, then that's when you have bad writing. With the idea that I should accept these things because it's a fantasy world, then it should make as much sense if Dany pulled out a Pokemon and set it loose on King's Landing.


But that's just it: In all fiction, the author takes you on a ride of their own making. In fantasy, the ride gets wilder. But when you have dragons and magic and people coming back to life and an army of the dead, to be bothered by how someone dies or why arrows kill an unsuspecting dragon one day but don't when the dragon is aware of the threat, or that dragons are OK, even fire breathing dragons, but c'mon, fire with such force that it blows over brick buildings is just too far over the top . . . it sounds like you are just disappointed that the story didn't go the way you thought it should.



Again, there are certain rules the show has to follow based on their own creation. And others they have to follow by default based on common sense. In what fantasy situation (books, games, other movies, other shows, etc.) have you seen dragon fire explode bricks and instantly collapse stone structure like the show did? It's like saying I should completely accept whatever the story is telling me just because it's a fantasy. Make believe stuff still has to be plausible to some extent. If dragon fire magically turns a person into a unicorn, it would not make any sense. You kind of have a general idea how dragon fire destroys things because you know what fire does in the real world. What escapes me is how it explodes stones and bricks instantly. That to me is just lazy writing as it allows them to destroy the defense and front castle gate with ease to move the story along.


D&D has said they wanted to present something that is out of people's expectations. This show has been talked about to death so that is difficult to do. Someone said it best. It's fine that D&D want to give us a surprise. But that surprise has to make sense. It seemed like they could not deliver.
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PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2019 12:59 pm    Post subject:

Not sure if this will even come up, but what happens to the money Cersei owes the Iron Bank. She took out a huge loan to hire the Golden Company. When Tywin died, Cersei ended up paying off the Lannister debt. Is Tyrion in the hook now? If he is, a Lannister always pays his debts.
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PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2019 1:00 pm    Post subject:

Does anyone remember the scene in season 6 or 7 iirc, where Dany and her advisors are discussing taking King’s Landing and the idea of just swooping I’m with Dragons and burning it down is brought up and someone says, “but you do not want to be queen of the ashes”? I think it may have been Tyrion.
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PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2019 1:43 pm    Post subject:

dvdrdiscs wrote:
loslakersss wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:
loslakersss wrote:

Dragons have been compared to WMD's. And she basically Hiroshima'd Kings Landing. Dany is the equivalent to the U.S. winning the war/displaying power, with no regard for collateral damage.


That analogy doesn't really work. First of all, the US used the atomic bombs on Japan not because they DGAF about collateral damage, they did so as a move to prevent the hundreds of thousands of lives that would have been lost via a land invasion. It was strategic. Dany's move was purely emotional and driven by revenge and hatred.

Perhaps the US comparison was misguided but dragons = WMD's is still true.

Was it revenge/hatred or was it desperation? This was the only way to win the war and display her power to keep her position. Again, I'm not supporting the decision but just trying to understand the character. Her counselors conspiring against her caused the paranoia that resulted in her needing to use fear to remain in power. I don't think she makes this turn if Tyrion and Varys don't do what they did.


Either the dragons are overpowered, or they are not. The show should have made a stance and stuck with it. They kept wavering back and forth in an attempt to throw the audience off course. There are rules in the make-believe world you create and you need to stick to those rules.

In the previous episode, they killed Rhaegal fairly easily with Scorpions pointed in the same general vicinity. D&D even said it set up the next episodes battle to be more even as Dany's dragons were neutralized. Those were their own words and intent. We weren't happy about how easy it was for Euron to kill Rhaegal, but we accepted it as much. Thus, before episode 5, I was expecting a ground battle as the deciding factor. But then to have Dany destroy Euron's entire fleet plus the entire King's Landing defense is outright cheating.

It's like me asking you which two hats will I pull out a rabbit, but then ended up pulling out the rabbit from my ass instead. That's how that episode felt.


Rhaegal wasn't aware of a threat, was flying in a straight line and at a slower pace. It's a lot easier to hit that kind of target than one that is actively evading you like Drogon. The scorpions were never shown to be able to maneuver quickly. So this episode made sense in that respect, Dany not burning the fleet last episode is still unexplainable.
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PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2019 2:55 pm    Post subject:

dvdrdiscs wrote:
ribeye wrote:
dvdrdiscs wrote:
ribeye wrote:
dvdrdiscs wrote:
Worst episode of the entire show by far. Dany's turn wasn't the issue. It's the writing leading up to it. Here's what I found stupid:

1) Golden Company didn't do anything. Yeah, yeah, the dragons obliterated them because Dragons > all. But the Golden Company are elite mercenaries who have never lost a battle. What was the point of the whole scene a few seasons back where Cersei took a huge loan out to get the Golden Company? There was no payoff for the audience to see that the Golden Company are badasses.

2) Scorpions. So they killed Rhaegal with 3 arrows and cannot manage to even get an arrow off after Dany engages. They made Scorpions overpowered in episode 5 to make the fight seem fair. Then they walked it all back in episode 6. Bad writing.

3) Euron's fleet was overpowered and was reduced to rubbish. Why? Why so many inconsistencies? Why does Dany's force even travel on water IF Euron was that strong? His strength is in his ships so why engage at all on water? WHY?

4) Euron washing ashore exactly where Jaime was at the exact moment. OP Euron suddenly became infatuated with killing Jaime. Lazy writing to close Euron's story arc.

5) Jaime sudden change to loving Brienne and sudden change back to Cersei. Yes, I know what the writer was going for in terms of Jaime realizing his fate is tied to Cersei. But the writing was terrible and inconsistent.

6) Cersei dying by debris. Talk about building her up as this evil monster and then taking the easy way out. No satisfaction from her scenes/death.

7) Arya going to the Red Keep and then running away. 15 minutes of her running away. Basically her only role in traveling there was so we can witness the escape of King's Landing from the perspective of someone we care for (according to D&D). Sigh.

8) Inconsistencies of remaining army numbers. Didn't make sense how many Unsullied and Dorathkis were left.

9) Dragons Fire also blows up bricks on impact.

There are so many more things wrong with this episode that I'm tired of typing. I felt like I have committed so much time and emotion into this show for close to 10 years and it has disappointed me like a failed long-term relationship.


I think you might want to avoid the Fantasy genre in the future.


There's this mindset when people watch movies and tv shows that "It's just a movie/show. You're supposed to suspend your belief." Uhmm... No. Movies/Shows define the rules in their make-believe world. When they break their own rules, then that's when you have bad writing. With the idea that I should accept these things because it's a fantasy world, then it should make as much sense if Dany pulled out a Pokemon and set it loose on King's Landing.


But that's just it: In all fiction, the author takes you on a ride of their own making. In fantasy, the ride gets wilder. But when you have dragons and magic and people coming back to life and an army of the dead, to be bothered by how someone dies or why arrows kill an unsuspecting dragon one day but don't when the dragon is aware of the threat, or that dragons are OK, even fire breathing dragons, but c'mon, fire with such force that it blows over brick buildings is just too far over the top . . . it sounds like you are just disappointed that the story didn't go the way you thought it should.



Again, there are certain rules the show has to follow based on their own creation. And others they have to follow by default based on common sense. In what fantasy situation (books, games, other movies, other shows, etc.) have you seen dragon fire explode bricks and instantly collapse stone structure like the show did? It's like saying I should completely accept whatever the story is telling me just because it's a fantasy. Make believe stuff still has to be plausible to some extent. If dragon fire magically turns a person into a unicorn, it would not make any sense. You kind of have a general idea how dragon fire destroys things because you know what fire does in the real world. What escapes me is how it explodes stones and bricks instantly. That to me is just lazy writing as it allows them to destroy the defense and front castle gate with ease to move the story along.


D&D has said they wanted to present something that is out of people's expectations. This show has been talked about to death so that is difficult to do. Someone said it best. It's fine that D&D want to give us a surprise. But that surprise has to make sense. It seemed like they could not deliver.


Had the dragon turned a person into a unicorn, I probably would not be watching, so that is just a poor example. But, back to the point, you think it is fine for a saga to have a dragon and for a dragon to breathe fire, but you don't think a dragon can breathe fire with significant force. Why? The capabilities of a dragon, what a dragon can do and can't, is beyond my expertise and reasoning ability.
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PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2019 3:11 pm    Post subject:

ribeye wrote:

Had the dragon turned a person into a unicorn, I probably would not be watching, so that is just a poor example. But, back to the point, you think it is fine for a saga to have a dragon and for a dragon to breathe fire, but you don't think a dragon can breathe fire with significant force. Why? The capabilities of a dragon, what a dragon can do and can't, is beyond my expertise and reasoning ability.


The problem with the dragon blowing down 1,000 foot stone fortifications and whether the force involved was "possible" or not. The problem is the capriciousness with that ability throughout the series. If the dragons had always been able to do that kind of destruction, every previous battle they were in would have a had different outcome. It's not about what fantasy gets away with, it's about the consistency in regards to the conventions a particular fantasy setup.

Look at this way . . . what if during the battle with the Whites all of a sudden dragon glass could not only kill a White, but it would also send off off a shockwavethat would kill all Whites within a 100 feet when that was not something that ever happened before or was explained?
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PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2019 3:16 pm    Post subject:

^Right, isn't that what plot armor is? Conveniently change the rules when necessary so that you can make a desired outcome feasible? Feels like playig make believe super heroes when you are 5 and your friend just keeps saying "oh, I have that power too."
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PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2019 3:22 pm    Post subject:

This season has been a D+ and it’s only because of the cinematography, music, and acting. The writing and story payoffs have been atrocious almost ruining the entire series
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PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2019 3:25 pm    Post subject:

DaMuleRules wrote:
ribeye wrote:

Had the dragon turned a person into a unicorn, I probably would not be watching, so that is just a poor example. But, back to the point, you think it is fine for a saga to have a dragon and for a dragon to breathe fire, but you don't think a dragon can breathe fire with significant force. Why? The capabilities of a dragon, what a dragon can do and can't, is beyond my expertise and reasoning ability.


The problem with the dragon blowing down 1,000 foot stone fortifications and whether the force involved was "possible" or not. The problem is the capriciousness with that ability throughout the series. If the dragons had always been able to do that kind of destruction, every previous battle they were in would have a had different outcome. It's not about what fantasy gets away with, it's about the consistency in regards to the conventions a particular fantasy setup.

Look at this way . . . what if during the battle with the Whites all of a sudden dragon glass could not only kill a White, but it would also send off off a shockwavethat would kill all Whites within a 100 feet when that was not something that ever happened before or was explained?



I think we've all tried to make this point a hundred times over up until now. I'm actually a little stunned that response continues to be "b-but it's FANTASY!".
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PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2019 3:33 pm    Post subject:

DaMuleRules wrote:
ribeye wrote:

Had the dragon turned a person into a unicorn, I probably would not be watching, so that is just a poor example. But, back to the point, you think it is fine for a saga to have a dragon and for a dragon to breathe fire, but you don't think a dragon can breathe fire with significant force. Why? The capabilities of a dragon, what a dragon can do and can't, is beyond my expertise and reasoning ability.


The problem with the dragon blowing down 1,000 foot stone fortifications and whether the force involved was "possible" or not. The problem is the capriciousness with that ability throughout the series. If the dragons had always been able to do that kind of destruction, every previous battle they were in would have a had different outcome. It's not about what fantasy gets away with, it's about the consistency in regards to the conventions a particular fantasy setup.

Look at this way . . . what if during the battle with the Whites all of a sudden dragon glass could not only kill a White, but it would also send off off a shockwavethat would kill all Whites within a 100 feet when that was not something that ever happened before or was explained?


So it is when something occurs, and not that it simply occurs? Maye the dragons always had such capability but did not need it. Maybe Drogon matured. Maybe he tied into Dany's anger and used dragon adrenaline? Who knows? Why does it matter so? Why are some things accepted yet others are not? Was is plausible that Dany would survive a fire and hatch dragons? But everyone seems to accept that. Ever wonder how anyone could ride a dragon, not to mention in full combat? It's just accepted.

Maybe someone could lend me their official Dragons of the Seven Kingdoms guide.
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PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2019 3:43 pm    Post subject:

ribeye wrote:

So it is when something occurs, and not that it simply occurs? Maybe Drogon matured. Maybe he tied into Dany's anger and used dragon adrenaline? Who knows? Why does it matter so? Why are some things accepted yet others are not? Was is plausible that Dany would survive a fire and hatch dragons? But everyone seems to accept that.

Maybe someone could lend me their official Dragons of the Seven Kingdoms guide.


Come on man. Now you're just being obtuse. Of course things can change and evolve. But when they do so dramatically and without and explanation or reference purely to conveniently move a story in a certain direction it's cheesy and off-putting that detracts from the power good storytelling. That applies whether it is historical drama or pure fantasy.
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