People who are upset about the way Cersei died are missing the poetic ending of Jamie's and her character. There have been 1 or more scenes throughout the series where Jamie and Cersei express how they came in to the world together and that they love each other, are all each other have and are meant to be together. they came in to the world together. They left the world together.
Along the same lines, I've come to terms with Jaimie's arc, too. GOT is a tragedy and Jaimie's tragic flaw was always his love for Cersei.
Joined: 16 Jun 2005 Posts: 40345 Location: Dirty South
Posted: Fri May 17, 2019 5:00 am Post subject:
was listening to Sam Vecenie and Cole Zwicker on Vecenie's podcast, and Vecenie commented he would have preferred that the attack on Kings Landing played out last season, and this final season used to deal with Dany on the Iron Throne, tensions with the North, and dealing with the Knight King.
Had the dragon turned a person into a unicorn, I probably would not be watching, so that is just a poor example. But, back to the point, you think it is fine for a saga to have a dragon and for a dragon to breathe fire, but you don't think a dragon can breathe fire with significant force. Why? The capabilities of a dragon, what a dragon can do and can't, is beyond my expertise and reasoning ability.
The problem with the dragon blowing down 1,000 foot stone fortifications and whether the force involved was "possible" or not. The problem is the capriciousness with that ability throughout the series. If the dragons had always been able to do that kind of destruction, every previous battle they were in would have a had different outcome. It's not about what fantasy gets away with, it's about the consistency in regards to the conventions a particular fantasy setup.
Look at this way . . . what if during the battle with the Whites all of a sudden dragon glass could not only kill a White, but it would also send off off a shockwavethat would kill all Whites within a 100 feet when that was not something that ever happened before or was explained?
I think it’s kinda ridiculous to have such a major problem with the capabilities of a dragon in a fictional world. But if we’re gonna go down that path, I don’t even think it’s out of character for Drogon to be able to do what he did. Dragons never stop growing when they are unchained and free. Drogon was never held in captivity like his sibling dragons. Also, he is supposed to be the reincarnation of the greatest dragon to ever appear in Westeros. He is already bigger and more powerful than the other dragons both naturally and due to never being in captivity, he’s the strongest he has ever been at any point in the show, and he and his mother are really (bleep) pissed off and motivated to devastate the city. I think it’s fairly reasonable and realistic within the scope of the show. One dragon was killed by a zombie king, the other was severely injured and struggling to fly when it was shot and those dragons were weaker and not strategically flying as Drogon was when attacking the iron fleet and scorpion weapons. We had never had a reason to test Drogons ability to destroy a wall but we did see the other smaller dragons do it and break out of captivity. I don’t see anything that points towards Drogon not being able to do what he did.
You're right. I didn't remember it, but just watched the scene. Season 6, episode 9, the dragons that had been held in the prison in Meereen break through the wall with fire. So much for it being unprecedented. I'm sure no one will admit that they were wrong though.
I was talking with my daughter last night about this absurd conversation, about what a dragon can and can't do. She couldn't believe it. She has not watched GOT but commented that she's heard the worst part about the show is the fans. I'll leave it at that.
You know what’s absurd? Continuing to have this discussion when it’s been explained a dozen times over that it isn’t about what a mythical beast can and can’t do. It’s about the quality of storytelling in a realm where there is no concern for serving the story as it’s been laid out and anything than can just randomly occur out of convenience versus building a foundation of story points to create a structure that supports itself on the integrity of its inter-dependent parts.
But nothing that happened prior to last episode showed us that what Drogon did was impossible. That’s the thing, people want to pick apart the show but regarding Drogon devastating the city, there isn’t much proof that he was incapable of what he did. I keep hearing that past battles would’ve been far easier if he was always capable of that. Which ones? He’s never been as powerful as he is now and Dany always avoided mass murdering innocent people until now. It all checks out within the premise of the world that the show takes place in.
was listening to Sam Vecenie and Cole Zwicker on Vecenie's podcast, and Vecenie commented he would have preferred that the attack on Kings Landing played out last season, and this final season used to deal with Dany on the Iron Throne, tensions with the North, and dealing with the Knight King.
I found that timeline interesting.
Aside from how the direwolves were minimized in the show, my biggest gripe is with the shortening of the last two seasons making it feel rushed. I don’t think a change of the order was necessary but make the last two seasons 10 episodes each and end the battle of Winterfell at episode 3 or 4.
Joined: 16 Jun 2005 Posts: 40345 Location: Dirty South
Posted: Fri May 17, 2019 5:21 am Post subject:
BigGameHames wrote:
adkindo wrote:
was listening to Sam Vecenie and Cole Zwicker on Vecenie's podcast, and Vecenie commented he would have preferred that the attack on Kings Landing played out last season, and this final season used to deal with Dany on the Iron Throne, tensions with the North, and dealing with the Knight King.
I found that timeline interesting.
Aside from how the direwolves were minimized in the show, my biggest gripe is with the shortening of the last two seasons making it feel rushed. I don’t think a change of the order was necessary but make the last two seasons 10 episodes each and end the battle of Winterfell at episode 3 or 4.
I think there is little doubt the biggest issue has been the short seasons....I think even three 10 episode seasons could have been utilized. We needed to see Arya and the Hound's travels back to Kings Landing...at least 2 or 3 episodes.....etc. etc. It is like all of the seasons were moving at 15 MPH, then the last 2 seasons have been traveling at 40 MPH.
Joined: 05 Nov 2005 Posts: 10775 Location: Hoosier Nation
Posted: Fri May 17, 2019 7:03 am Post subject:
What are the odds Tyrion ends up on the Iron Throne. More and more I'm theorizing the Dany's going to go all dracarys on Tyrion except he won't burn proving he's actually got Targaryian blood. _________________ Not a legend
What are the odds Tyrion ends up on the Iron Throne. More and more I'm theorizing the Dany's going to go all dracarys on Tyrion except he won't burn proving he's actually got Targaryian blood.
Joined: 15 Sep 2012 Posts: 29285 Location: La La Land
Posted: Fri May 17, 2019 4:32 pm Post subject:
Chronicle wrote:
ElginBaylor wrote:
What are the odds Tyrion ends up on the Iron Throne. More and more I'm theorizing the Dany's going to go all dracarys on Tyrion except he won't burn proving he's actually got Targaryian blood.
33%
0.000000000001% _________________ "Every hurt is a lesson, and every lesson makes you better”
Joined: 13 Sep 2008 Posts: 5722 Location: Ljubljana, Slovenia
Posted: Sat May 18, 2019 1:27 am Post subject:
kikanga wrote:
Chronicle wrote:
ElginBaylor wrote:
What are the odds Tyrion ends up on the Iron Throne. More and more I'm theorizing the Dany's going to go all dracarys on Tyrion except he won't burn proving he's actually got Targaryian blood.
Man what a huge disappointment after 8 seasons. I mean no one was expecting much of the ending after the last few episodes but to be even worse than that.
That being said, it definitely was an entertaining 8 years. Kinda sad it's over but also kinda glad _________________ Kobe
Wow that was such a huge let down. I can't believe Jon got so (bleep) in the end. Is he even with the nights watch or just with the wildlings? From being King of the North to the rightful ruler of the throne to this... straight bullsh!t. _________________ "Kobe is a scientific dawg," O'Neal wrote. "He works out every day, practices every day. Most of the other stars are just dawgs, not scientific dawgs. Kobe will always have the edge because of his range and killer instinct."
Didn't really inspire much of a reaction out of me either way. The main "twist" was speculated on here and I watched the entire episode expecting it. Characters mostly ended up where they felt they should end up, but I guess that's because the subversive factor of who ended up on the Iron Throne was something I was expecting.
On the flip side, scenes like Jon going where Ned Stark should've gone and him going back to the wildings (I was half expecting some kind of Ygritte callback) or Sansa getting QitN chants took me back to the first 3-4 seasons and reminded me how much more layered the writing was. I don't have a problem with the broad strokes here, but the details (like all the other lords acquiescing to what was great for Starks) are just so thin. I guess I've forgotten how much my standards for this show have dropped since its initial 3-4 season peak.
The episode where they were surrounded by the dead and Dany swooped in and saved them for me. They totally just went Hollywood from that point on. Every other episode took people forever to get from one point to another.
What was the turning point in quality? Was it right after the red wedding? Later?
Yeah. In my opinion Season 4 was the last great season of Game of Thrones but the decline started during that season. I think Ramsay was the first "late season" writing -- remember (bleep) shirtless Ramsay fending off Yara's rescue attempt of Theon?
Joined: 15 Sep 2012 Posts: 29285 Location: La La Land
Posted: Sun May 19, 2019 7:24 pm Post subject:
I actually liked this episode more than episode 5. I enjoyed the humor.
But I read spoilers weeks in advance and was prepared for Bran's ending. If that wasn't the case, I probably would be pissed. _________________ "Every hurt is a lesson, and every lesson makes you better”
I actually liked this episode more than episode 5. I enjoyed the humor.
But I read spoilers weeks in advance and was prepared for Bran's ending. If that wasn't the case, I probably would be pissed.
Why? I thought it was a very reasonable ending, if we went in with the foregone conclusion that Jon wouldn't be king. Surprising but also fitting in its own way.
Joined: 15 Sep 2012 Posts: 29285 Location: La La Land
Posted: Sun May 19, 2019 7:45 pm Post subject:
tox wrote:
kikanga wrote:
I actually liked this episode more than episode 5. I enjoyed the humor.
But I read spoilers weeks in advance and was prepared for Bran's ending. If that wasn't the case, I probably would be pissed.
Why? I thought it was a very reasonable ending, if we went in with the foregone conclusion that Jon wouldn't be king. Surprising but also fitting in its own way.
Like the rest of the season. I don't mind the plot point. It's just the execution.
I can believe GRRM told D&D Bran the Broken was his plan for the books. But I bet you GRRM will treat Bran waaaay differently on the journey there.
The show took an omniscient character and made him Captain Hindsight. His knowledge was only told, never shown. Which is a sin in itself operating in a visual media. And when he did tell, it was after the fact.
Can Bran see the future? Or is it only the past up to the present? Was he the horse Arya found at the end of episode 5? Was he in Drogon this episode? Did the 3 eyed raven have ambition (outside of the Night King) since Bran's body left that cave all those years ago?
I like it when filmmakers and showrunners leave room for interpretation by the audience in their work. But they really short-armed Bran this season. You can foreshadow something. But that doesn't mean you properly did the ground work for a characters role within the plot. _________________ "Every hurt is a lesson, and every lesson makes you better”
Last edited by kikanga on Sun May 19, 2019 7:46 pm; edited 1 time in total
Don't get wrong, some of this episode's ending for characters I was ok with, but...
Bran?
Yep. When I think of a great inspiring leader of the people I think of the creepy dead-stare guy that spends half his days worging into the past
Seems like they drew inspiration for this from Plato and the Philosopher King notion (e.g. someone who really doesnt want power makes the best ruler). But Bran? I mean, really?
I actually liked this episode more than episode 5. I enjoyed the humor.
But I read spoilers weeks in advance and was prepared for Bran's ending. If that wasn't the case, I probably would be pissed.
Why? I thought it was a very reasonable ending, if we went in with the foregone conclusion that Jon wouldn't be king. Surprising but also fitting in its own way.
Like the rest of the season. I don't mind the plot point. It's just the execution.
I can believe GRRM told D&D Bran the Broken was his plan for the books. But I bet you GRRM will treat Bran waaaay differently on the journey there.
The show took an omniscient character and made him Captain Hindsight. His knowledge was only told, never shown. Which is a sin in itself operating in a visual media. And when he did tell, it was after the fact.
Can Bran see the future? Or is it only the past up to the present? Was he the horse Arya found at the end of episode 5? Was he in Drogon this episode? Did the 3 eyed raven have ambition?
I like it when filmmakers and showrunners leave room for interpretation by the audience in their work. But they really short-armed Bran this season. You can foreshadow something. But that doesn't mean you properly did the ground work for a characters role within the plot.
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