Just watched the wedding again. A couple of observations:
1. It does look like Olenna Tyrell removes one of the stones from Sansa's necklace.
2. Margaery is the last person to touch Joffrey's goblet and places it on the King's table so her grandmother could not have put the poison in the cup. However, before that Tyrion filled the goblet from a wine bottle in front of Cersei.
3. Cersei was in an unusually good mood at the wedding considering how angry she was at the prospect of Joffrey wedding Margeary. There's an odd scene after the announcement the food will be donated to the poor where Cersei goes up and kisses Margeary and is very nice to her.
4. Cersei orders Pycelle to leave the wedding and make arrangements to give the leftover food to the dogs instead of the poor.
5. Joffrey is the only one seen eating the pie. We all assumed the poison was in the wine, but what if it was in the pie?
Olenna Tyrell put the ruby that she took off Sansa's necklace in the goblet as she was walking back to her seat from talking with Sansa....You could clearly hear the rubt go in the goblet as she walks by it........Thats why the director did a far shot of this but you hear it and see it
Joined: 30 Nov 2006 Posts: 33474 Location: Long Beach, California
Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2014 8:08 am Post subject:
DaMuleRules wrote:
LakerSanity wrote:
That was awesome. My favorite death ever.
Great episode even without Joffrey's demise.
We were talking about how Walking Dead season 4 was filled with filler and there was some argument about how people view everything as filler these days. However, this latest episode of GOT is a perfect example of how an episode can be great even where the story isn't necessarily moved along too far. Even before Joffrey died, as you said, it was a great episode. However, nothing significant really happened, we just learned more about what was going on with the characters. The story itself is intriguing and interesting. _________________ LakersGround's Terms of Service
Obyrin Martell probably killed Joffrey... _________________ "Now, if life is coffee, then the jobs, money & position in society are the cups. They are just tools to hold & contain life, but the quality of life doesn't change. Sometimes, by concentrating only on the cup, we fail to enjoy the coffee in it."
Joined: 10 Dec 2006 Posts: 52657 Location: Making a safety stop at 15 feet.
Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2014 8:47 am Post subject:
Drifts wrote:
Obyrin Martell probably killed Joffrey...
Nah, way too obvious considering that they spent a few scenes with him expressing an intent for some kind of revenge. Pretty clearly a red herring.
Besides, Obyrin would likely be looking for a much more personal and graphic style of revenge that is out in the open rather than hide behind a secret poisoning.
Joined: 27 Jul 2004 Posts: 18222 Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2014 8:52 am Post subject:
chazz wrote:
numero-ocho wrote:
Just watched the wedding again. A couple of observations:
1. It does look like Olenna Tyrell removes one of the stones from Sansa's necklace.
2. Margaery is the last person to touch Joffrey's goblet and places it on the King's table so her grandmother could not have put the poison in the cup. However, before that Tyrion filled the goblet from a wine bottle in front of Cersei.
3. Cersei was in an unusually good mood at the wedding considering how angry she was at the prospect of Joffrey wedding Margeary. There's an odd scene after the announcement the food will be donated to the poor where Cersei goes up and kisses Margeary and is very nice to her.
4. Cersei orders Pycelle to leave the wedding and make arrangements to give the leftover food to the dogs instead of the poor.
5. Joffrey is the only one seen eating the pie. We all assumed the poison was in the wine, but what if it was in the pie?
Olenna Tyrell put the ruby that she took off Sansa's necklace in the goblet as she was walking back to her seat from talking with Sansa....You could clearly hear the rubt go in the goblet as she walks by it........Thats why the director did a far shot of this but you hear it and see it
Yeah. Kudos to those who caught that. It was so subtle and the camera was panned out to show the whole stage. In the following shot, the goblet is right in front of Joffrey though so maybe she dropped in in the pitcher instead. I'm still going with Cersei as my prime suspect.
I hope they don't reveal the murderer right away. The mystery has added a new element to this already great show. _________________ "Suck it up. Don't be a baby. Do your job." - Kobe Bryant
Joined: 27 Jul 2004 Posts: 18222 Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2014 8:59 am Post subject:
dmorans1 wrote:
numero-ocho wrote:
5. Joffrey is the only one seen eating the pie. We all assumed the poison was in the wine, but what if it was in the pie?
Yeah I don't think so. Everyone got served a piece of the pie. No way someone will risk everyone dying.
Yeah, I know I'm going out on a limb with the pie theory, but he only had pie and the wine. You can only see her from the back, but the person who served the pie to Margeary to give to Joffrey looked like Sansa's other handmaiden who was spying for the Queen. _________________ "Suck it up. Don't be a baby. Do your job." - Kobe Bryant
The necklace, Olenna talking about a man being killed at a wedding, Dontos taking Sansa away, and the shot of her before Joffrey drank, I'm pretty sure she did it.
I think the important thing to consider is why kill Joffrey on his wedding day? Is it just opportunity?
One of my friends said that she saw the old Tyrell woman take something off of Sansa's necklace (which Dontos gave her) at some point during the episode. Perhaps Dontos used the necklace to smuggle a poison in, which Tyrell then used to Joffrey? That would explain why Dontos was there to help Sansa "escape" during the commotion.
I'll definitely re-watch the episode tonight and see if I catch it.
Missed that! Now it's making sense.
Why would anyone need to smuggle poison into a wedding?
The only way this would make any sense if they planned to leave the piece of necklace containing poison in order to frame Sansa/Tyrion, but I guess we'll see when the scene continues next week.
As far as Margeary now marrying Tommen, I just don't see it. Joffrey was 18, Sansa is 14, so I'm guessing Tommen would probably be 11 or 12 at most.
Joffrey died at 14 years old. Tommen is 11. _________________ www.lakersbrasil.com
Fan site made by me and others, dedicated to posting Laker news and articles in portuguese.
I can't help but wonder why Margeary would say he was choking when it looked like a reaction to poison. It makes me think she was in on it with her grandma and she was just playing the frightened "I don't know what's going on" part. Maybe they planned to choke him with whatever Olenna took from that necklace but weren't successful but someone else got to him first? Or maybe it was something that he was choking on that they took out of the ruby; something small enough to swallow but would get stuck in the throat..?
But Cersei is so quick to go from crying over her son's death to evil "kill my brother" mode. I know she's pretty damn evil and wants Tyrion dead so it could be that she just wants him dead and found a perfect way to do it(whether she really believes he poisoned Joffrey or not) or that she was plotting this for awhile since Joffrey was no longer under her control and she wanted to remain queen regent and not have to go off and marry someone she didn't want to because her dad said so. Or she's innocent but come on, she's never innocent.
Another part of me has a feeling that Tywin and Olenna somehow are in on this together. Tywin really hated that disrespectful little bastard who probably always reminded him of the rumors about his incestuous children which he probably knows are true. I doubt this is it but just something that popped in my head based on some looks he gave to Joffrey.
The necklace, Olenna talking about a man being killed at a wedding, Dontos taking Sansa away, and the shot of her before Joffrey drank, I'm pretty sure she did it.
I think the important thing to consider is why kill Joffrey on his wedding day? Is it just opportunity?
Joined: 27 Jul 2004 Posts: 18222 Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2014 12:01 pm Post subject:
AirKobe8 wrote:
numero-ocho wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:
Jeffs wrote:
One of my friends said that she saw the old Tyrell woman take something off of Sansa's necklace (which Dontos gave her) at some point during the episode. Perhaps Dontos used the necklace to smuggle a poison in, which Tyrell then used to Joffrey? That would explain why Dontos was there to help Sansa "escape" during the commotion.
I'll definitely re-watch the episode tonight and see if I catch it.
Missed that! Now it's making sense.
Why would anyone need to smuggle poison into a wedding?
The only way this would make any sense if they planned to leave the piece of necklace containing poison in order to frame Sansa/Tyrion, but I guess we'll see when the scene continues next week.
As far as Margeary now marrying Tommen, I just don't see it. Joffrey was 18, Sansa is 14, so I'm guessing Tommen would probably be 11 or 12 at most.
Joffrey died at 14 years old. Tommen is 11.
That may be in the books, but Joffrey was 18 on the show. Before Blackwater, Tyrion and Cersei were having a discussion comparing Joffrey to Jaime at 17. I'm pretty sure I heard Joffrey mention something about his 18th Name Day in the Season premiere as well.
I guess Tommen aged pretty quickly from the little boy sitting on his mother's knee in Blackwater. The actor who played Tommen in Seasons 1 and 2 (Callum Wharry) was replaced by a new, older looking boy (Dean-Charles Chapman). He played Martyn Lannister last season. _________________ "Suck it up. Don't be a baby. Do your job." - Kobe Bryant
The uncertain aspect is when/how did she place the poison in the goblet?
1) If she dropped it in the cup right after speaking with Sansa, then it would have been too early. That scene is well before Joffrey pours the wine on Tyrion's head and then drops his cup on purpose, etc before it's retrieved by Sansa (unless it's very slow-acting poison).
2) After Tyrion fills Joffrey's cup, there's that tense standoff where he demands that Tyrion kneel - before the cake/pie arrival provides a distraction. As Joffrey's turns away he takes a sip from the cup before putting it on the table right in front of Olenna. He then proceeds to cut the pie, eat a piece and then take a another drink after Tyrion retrieves the cup. That's when he has the "choking" fit.
3) Placing poison in the wine pitcher or pie would have been too uncertain of a result and too broad of an impact.
4) I think she takes the stone from Sansa and placed the posion in Joffrey's goblet when he went to cut the pie.
5) Dontos was obviously in on it and is trying to save Sansa from guilt by association (she conspired with Tyrion) or physical evidence (if they tie the poison to her knecklace).
Joined: 30 Nov 2006 Posts: 33474 Location: Long Beach, California
Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2014 3:12 pm Post subject:
I agree that I think it was a conspiracy between Olenna Tyrell and Tywin Lanister. Both are smart enough to know they need eachother, but both had little faith in Joffrey, so decided to make something happen. Who knows, maybe Margeary is pregnant already. _________________ LakersGround's Terms of Service
Joined: 27 Jul 2004 Posts: 18222 Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2014 4:36 pm Post subject:
raffi wrote:
I think it's Olenna Tyrell -
2) After Tyrion fills Joffrey's cup, there's that tense standoff where he demands that Tyrion kneel - before the cake/pie arrival provides a distraction. As Joffrey's turns away he takes a sip from the cup before putting it on the table right in front of Olenna. He then proceeds to cut the pie, eat a piece and then take a another drink after Tyrion retrieves the cup. That's when he has the "choking" fit.
Before hacking the pie, Joffrey actually hands the goblet to Margeary who places it on the King's table, not in front of her grandmother. If you see how far apart the family tables are from the King's table, it would have been difficult for old Olenna to reach over and drop the jewel into the goblet unnoticed.
OTOH, if she gave the jewel to Margeary, it would have been very easy for her to put the poison in Joffrey's cup.
Man, this is getting exhausting! _________________ "Suck it up. Don't be a baby. Do your job." - Kobe Bryant
Joined: 27 Jul 2004 Posts: 18222 Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2014 4:50 pm Post subject:
LakerSanity wrote:
I agree that I think it was a conspiracy between Olenna Tyrell and Tywin Lanister. Both are smart enough to know they need eachother, but both had little faith in Joffrey, so decided to make something happen. Who knows, maybe Margeary is pregnant already.
That's an interesting theory, but I would think a child born out of wedlock would automatically come under suspicion. If the thought is this child would be heir to the throne that means the Tyrells would rule until the child was old enough. Not only that, there's no guarantee the child is a boy so to off Joffrey before confirming they have a male heir would be foolish. _________________ "Suck it up. Don't be a baby. Do your job." - Kobe Bryant
Joined: 27 Jul 2004 Posts: 18222 Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2014 4:55 pm Post subject:
loslakersss wrote:
Freakout wrote:
Anyone else ever really thought about how strong Bran Stark could be? We know he can control his wolf and Hodor... what about a dragon?
Not really but now that you mention it....HODOR!
Will he ever remember that he didn't just fall out of the window? Does he know that Robb and his mom are dead?
I don't think he knows. The only people they've had contact with since they left Winterfell was Sam and Gilly and they were North of the Wall during the Red Wedding.
It was curious there was no mention of Bran by Jon since he returned to Castle Black. _________________ "Suck it up. Don't be a baby. Do your job." - Kobe Bryant
Joined: 10 Dec 2006 Posts: 52657 Location: Making a safety stop at 15 feet.
Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2014 5:19 pm Post subject:
numero-ocho wrote:
LakerSanity wrote:
I agree that I think it was a conspiracy between Olenna Tyrell and Tywin Lanister. Both are smart enough to know they need eachother, but both had little faith in Joffrey, so decided to make something happen. Who knows, maybe Margeary is pregnant already.
That's an interesting theory, but I would think a child born out of wedlock would automatically come under suspicion. If the thought is this child would be heir to the throne that means the Tyrells would rule until the child was old enough. Not only that, there's no guarantee the child is a boy so to off Joffrey before confirming they have a male heir would be foolish.
Yeah, it would be highly suspicious if Margeary turned out to be pregnant because it's highly doubtful that Joffrey and she would have had a chance to properly conceive between the ceremony and the reception - in fact impossible when one realizes that Joffrey was much more interested in performing as an utter prick than he was in performing with one. And as you say, it'd have to be a male heir to matter.
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