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Ben Vereen
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2017 9:11 pm    Post subject:

jonnybravo wrote:
tox wrote:
Not oft discussed, but the OST for GOT has been spectacular.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hf9u3jPvkkI

I think "The Truth" is a new piece. I really like it. It's so peaceful and romantic. It sounds like it should play right at the end of the series, with Jon and Dany flying off in the sunset lol


Yes. He needs an Emmy. We've pooped on the last 2 seasons enough but the OST is gd brilliant.


Playlist of the individual tracks:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AqdekMQuFh0&index=15&list=PLBKadB95sF4554OTdjwGynwPOwF4FE1hA


Did anyone else go to his concert at the Forum a few many months back!!!???

OMG that was epic!!!

One of my favorite all time concert experiences. Huge screens playing all your favorite scenes plus atmosphere effects!!! Snow, thunder, FIRE! All kinds of crazy GOT lighting ambiance effects.

Djawadi was awesome and gave alot of background and insight into some of the different special instruments he used for different lands, themes and people. I didn't want it to friggin end!


Last edited by Ben Vereen on Wed Aug 30, 2017 10:26 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2017 9:15 pm    Post subject:

Vishnu wrote:
Arthur Dayne only used one sword, Dawn, in the books.


Thats right! I'm wondering who kept dawn after Ned chopped Dayne down with his own sword? Did Howard Reed keep it or did they melt it down into another sword or something?
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2017 9:30 pm    Post subject:

tox wrote:
AirKobe8 wrote:
kikanga wrote:
I wonder what the Night King wants. I feel like it's either Jon or Bran. Maybe the whole Stark family for some reason.
I hope we find out the Night King's motivation in the final season.
I know the Children of the Forest created him to fight the First Men a long time ago. But why are they coming back now?


Exactly, I don't really understand it too. It's not like they are a conquering race, or need land to farm or anything like that. They could do just fine living beyond the wall. I really hope they explain this, it just can't be out of "pure evil".


Well, in Season 6, we were shown that their existence is literally to destroy human kind, due to the CotF. The "absolute evil" interpretation is absolutely an option.

I've been fond of the idea that they exist as counterbalance to Dany's dragons and the reintroduction of magic in Westeros. I guess it's similar to the ending of LOTR, in that I imagine a lot of the magic to fade away? But I don't think there's much merit to that idea.

GRRM did criticize Tolkien's successors for makimg pure evil bad guys that are 1 dimensional.

But at the same time. If you go with that counterbalance idea. It's not like the dragons have higher thought processes either. They kinda just act on instinct for the most part.

I guess if the counterbalance idea ends up being true. I'd still want to now why magic was reintroduced to start the series. Why was Dany the first to birth dragons in years? Why are the WWs coming back now?
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2017 9:51 pm    Post subject:

kikanga wrote:
tox wrote:
AirKobe8 wrote:
kikanga wrote:
I wonder what the Night King wants. I feel like it's either Jon or Bran. Maybe the whole Stark family for some reason.
I hope we find out the Night King's motivation in the final season.
I know the Children of the Forest created him to fight the First Men a long time ago. But why are they coming back now?


Exactly, I don't really understand it too. It's not like they are a conquering race, or need land to farm or anything like that. They could do just fine living beyond the wall. I really hope they explain this, it just can't be out of "pure evil".


Well, in Season 6, we were shown that their existence is literally to destroy human kind, due to the CotF. The "absolute evil" interpretation is absolutely an option.

I've been fond of the idea that they exist as counterbalance to Dany's dragons and the reintroduction of magic in Westeros. I guess it's similar to the ending of LOTR, in that I imagine a lot of the magic to fade away? But I don't think there's much merit to that idea.

GRRM did criticize Tolkien's successors for makimg pure evil bad guys that are 1 dimensional.

But at the same time. If you go with that counterbalance idea. It's not like the dragons have higher thought processes either. They kinda just act on instinct for the most part.

I guess if the counterbalance idea ends up being true. I'd still want to now why magic was reintroduced to start the series. Why was Dany the first to birth dragons in years? Why are the WWs coming back now?

Right, that's exactly why I don't think there's that much merit to the idea. I don't think there's enough lore legwork to explain the counterbalance thing, and it doesn't include why magic was even reintroduced to begin with. So they'd need to do a lot of exposition in Season 8, which I don't think they want to do.

BTW, if that ended up being the case, could Jon die since he was magically resurrected? Dany can end the Great War but only at the cost of her children (the dragons) and her lover (Jon). That'd certainly qualify as bittersweet, but I doubt that happens.

Anyway, that probably won't happen. I think ultimately it's just going to be a story about how humans did or didn't come together in the face of Absolute Evil. They'll probably wrap up Cersei and Night King on the same climactic battle (probably at Winterfell). I imagine Cersei's forces will eventually change allegiance after seeing the true threat, and with no supporters left, she'll finally fall. (Tyrion talked in S7 about how her power is brittle due to how she rules. I honestly think she should have been deposed after using wildfire in S6, but I think they're eventually going to have her schemes catch up with her, and they're waiting until S8 to do it.)

So in that sense, even though the Night King/ the WW are absolute evil, it's framed in a context that has something to say about the human condition and is a little bit more interesting than "good vs evil, who will win???"
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Last edited by tox on Tue Aug 29, 2017 10:26 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2017 9:51 pm    Post subject:

Ben Vereen wrote:
jonnybravo wrote:
tox wrote:
Not oft discussed, but the OST for GOT has been spectacular.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hf9u3jPvkkI

I think "The Truth" is a new piece. I really like it. It's so peaceful and romantic. It sounds like it should play right at the end of the series, with Jon and Dany flying off in the sunset lol


Yes. He needs an Emmy. We've pooped on the last 2 seasons enough but the OST is gd brilliant.


Playlist of the individual tracks:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AqdekMQuFh0&index=15&list=PLBKadB95sF4554OTdjwGynwPOwF4FE1hA


Did anyone else go to his concert at the Forum a few many months back!!!???

OMG that was epic!!!

One of my favorite all time concert experiences. Huge screens playing all your favorite scenes plus atmosphere effects!!! Rain, thunder, FIRE! All kinds of crazy GOT lighting ambiance effects.

Djawadi was awesome and gave alot of background and insight into some of the different special instruments he used for different lands, themes and people. I didn't want it to friggin end!


I've never even heard of it. That sounds sooo freaking awesome!
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 2:05 am    Post subject:

leor_77 wrote:
Danny should have just killed Cersei with her dragon when they landed in the dragon pit. With their army and the two dragons, they'd take King's Landing in a couple of hours.


Agreed. It would have been the smart move.

But it definitely makes things more interesting next year having Cersei lying in the weeds waiting for whoever survives up North.


When Jon and Tyrion were talking about 1m people living in KL, though, it got me thinking that the NK would be smart to bypass Winterfell and take KL. adding 1m zombies to his army before he faces Jon and Dany would make him that much more formidable.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 3:41 am    Post subject:

Saw this on some online discussion and thought it's a great point: why doesn't anyone bring up Jon's desertion of the Night's Watch? People don't know he died and ressurected, thus "ending" his watch. It'd only be natural someone like Cersei would go after him for that, but instead she actually acknowledged him as King in the North.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 5:36 am    Post subject:

Ben Vereen wrote:
Vishnu wrote:
Arthur Dayne only used one sword, Dawn, in the books.


Thats right! I'm wondering who kept dawn after Ned chopped Dayne down with his own sword? Did Howard Reed keep it or did they melt it down into another sword or something?


Explained as part of the Season 6 History and Lore extras included with the Blu Ray set. The link below skips to the part after Ned killed Ser Arthur but recommend watching the whole video as it explains why the sword Dawn ended up where it is after he was killed.

https://youtu.be/kT_kSBwSIz0?t=3m27s
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 10:27 am    Post subject:

numero-ocho wrote:
Ben Vereen wrote:
Vishnu wrote:
Arthur Dayne only used one sword, Dawn, in the books.


Thats right! I'm wondering who kept dawn after Ned chopped Dayne down with his own sword? Did Howard Reed keep it or did they melt it down into another sword or something?


Explained as part of the Season 6 History and Lore extras included with the Blu Ray set. The link below skips to the part after Ned killed Ser Arthur but recommend watching the whole video as it explains why the sword Dawn ended up where it is after he was killed.

https://youtu.be/kT_kSBwSIz0?t=3m27s


Very cool! Thanks!!
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 10:33 am    Post subject:

jonnybravo wrote:
Ben Vereen wrote:
jonnybravo wrote:
tox wrote:
Not oft discussed, but the OST for GOT has been spectacular.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hf9u3jPvkkI

I think "The Truth" is a new piece. I really like it. It's so peaceful and romantic. It sounds like it should play right at the end of the series, with Jon and Dany flying off in the sunset lol


Yes. He needs an Emmy. We've pooped on the last 2 seasons enough but the OST is gd brilliant.


Playlist of the individual tracks:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AqdekMQuFh0&index=15&list=PLBKadB95sF4554OTdjwGynwPOwF4FE1hA


Did anyone else go to his concert at the Forum a few many months back!!!???

OMG that was epic!!!

One of my favorite all time concert experiences. Huge screens playing all your favorite scenes plus atmosphere effects!!! Rain, thunder, FIRE! All kinds of crazy GOT lighting ambiance effects.

Djawadi was awesome and gave alot of background and insight into some of the different special instruments he used for different lands, themes and people. I didn't want it to friggin end!


I've never even heard of it. That sounds sooo freaking awesome!


Yeah it seems like they didn't do too good a job promoting it in L.A. or something.

The forum was just a little over Half Full. I was shocked it wasn't sold out immediately. This city is certainly chock full of GOT fans. Must be that Inglewood traffic because from what I hear it sold out in other City's.

https://youtu.be/unmnmtqzA8Y
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 11:30 am    Post subject:

AirKobe8 wrote:
Saw this on some online discussion and thought it's a great point: why doesn't anyone bring up Jon's desertion of the Night's Watch? People don't know he died and ressurected, thus "ending" his watch. It'd only be natural someone like Cersei would go after him for that, but instead she actually acknowledged him as King in the North.

In the case of Cersei, it's probably because she was buttering him up and appealing to his sense of honor to keep him neutral. There'd be no purpose in antagonizing him by calling him a deserter.

In a more general sense, I imagine it's well-known that the brothers at the Night's Watch tried to assassinate him. They might not know/ believe the attempt was successful and that he was literally resurrected, but I imagine word got out that he was betrayed. So with those extenuating circumstances, how many people would blame Jon for leaving the watch?
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 2:28 pm    Post subject:

Maybe this has been brought up, but i didnt read all the comments.. something lingered in my mind after discussing Cersie's plan with a friend.

When she tells Jamie that Eron (sp? the Iron Islands dude) went to get the Golden Company... this means that they already knew Danny and Jon were going to bring a white to show them -- right? Doesnt this mean someone gave her the heads up? I'm trying to tie some loose ends, as i dont remember anyone explicitly telling cercie in the show "they will bring you a white walker".. Would this bring in the Varys being a snitch theory back?

Or maybe im just overthinking it, she knew they would offer her a truce and this would still be part of her plan.. white or no white. However, i find it weird that they explicitly needed to use the white as an excuse to leave.. Makes it seem like they planned to stage it as such (cersie and Eron).
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 2:42 pm    Post subject:

The Bran=Night King theory is the juiciest GOT theory out there IMO.
I'm not confident it is true. But I kind of wish it was.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 2:48 pm    Post subject:

soooo question.

A bunch of Wights died once Jon Snow killed that White Walker they were connected to because that Walker was the one who resurrected them.

So does that mean every Wight had to be resurected by a White Walker?

That dead Nightswatchmen in Season 1, who resurected him??? there were no White Walkers around and he resurected inside Castle Black
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 2:54 pm    Post subject:

marga86 wrote:
Maybe this has been brought up, but i didnt read all the comments.. something lingered in my mind after discussing Cersie's plan with a friend.

When she tells Jamie that Eron (sp? the Iron Islands dude) went to get the Golden Company... this means that they already knew Danny and Jon were going to bring a white to show them -- right? Doesnt this mean someone gave her the heads up? I'm trying to tie some loose ends, as i dont remember anyone explicitly telling cercie in the show "they will bring you a white walker".. Would this bring in the Varys being a snitch theory back?

Or maybe im just overthinking it, she knew they would offer her a truce and this would still be part of her plan.. white or no white. However, i find it weird that they explicitly needed to use the white as an excuse to leave.. Makes it seem like they planned to stage it as such (cersie and Eron).


Don't really see the point in making these connections. If there is a snitch then yeah they might have planned what to do with Euron's departure but if there wasn't a snitch, would anything have changed? Cersei would have still called a truce, Euron would have still left at some point to bring in the Golden Company.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 2:56 pm    Post subject:

Ben Vereen wrote:
soooo question.

A bunch of Wights died once Jon Snow killed that White Walker they were connected to because that Walker was the one who resurrected them.

So does that mean every Wight had to be resurected by a White Walker?

That dead Nightswatchmen in Season 1, who resurected him??? there were no White Walkers around and he resurected inside Castle Black


Think of it like a pyramid scheme. And the Night King is at the top.
He created all the other white walkers. And those other white walkers created their own wights.
You kill a white walker, his wights die too. Kill the Night King, all the other white walkers and all the wights die too.

Who knows what White Walker owned those dead Nightwatchmen. But he doesn't have to be in their immediate vicinity to resurrect them. The only time physical contact is needed is when the Night King makes a White Walker or an Ice Dragon apparently. Wights can be raised without physical contact. Like when the Night King raised the dead at the end of the Hardhome battle.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 3:45 pm    Post subject:

PRLakeShow wrote:
marga86 wrote:
Maybe this has been brought up, but i didnt read all the comments.. something lingered in my mind after discussing Cersie's plan with a friend.

When she tells Jamie that Eron (sp? the Iron Islands dude) went to get the Golden Company... this means that they already knew Danny and Jon were going to bring a white to show them -- right? Doesnt this mean someone gave her the heads up? I'm trying to tie some loose ends, as i dont remember anyone explicitly telling cercie in the show "they will bring you a white walker".. Would this bring in the Varys being a snitch theory back?

Or maybe im just overthinking it, she knew they would offer her a truce and this would still be part of her plan.. white or no white. However, i find it weird that they explicitly needed to use the white as an excuse to leave.. Makes it seem like they planned to stage it as such (cersie and Eron).


Don't really see the point in making these connections. If there is a snitch then yeah they might have planned what to do with Euron's departure but if there wasn't a snitch, would anything have changed? Cersei would have still called a truce, Euron would have still left at some point to bring in the Golden Company.


Hmm maybe i am overthinking it.

I guess my point was that Euron would walkout regardless, right? He just happened to use the wight as an excuse and cersie understood that.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 4:45 pm    Post subject:

marga86 wrote:
PRLakeShow wrote:
marga86 wrote:
Maybe this has been brought up, but i didnt read all the comments.. something lingered in my mind after discussing Cersie's plan with a friend.

When she tells Jamie that Eron (sp? the Iron Islands dude) went to get the Golden Company... this means that they already knew Danny and Jon were going to bring a white to show them -- right? Doesnt this mean someone gave her the heads up? I'm trying to tie some loose ends, as i dont remember anyone explicitly telling cercie in the show "they will bring you a white walker".. Would this bring in the Varys being a snitch theory back?

Or maybe im just overthinking it, she knew they would offer her a truce and this would still be part of her plan.. white or no white. However, i find it weird that they explicitly needed to use the white as an excuse to leave.. Makes it seem like they planned to stage it as such (cersie and Eron).


Don't really see the point in making these connections. If there is a snitch then yeah they might have planned what to do with Euron's departure but if there wasn't a snitch, would anything have changed? Cersei would have still called a truce, Euron would have still left at some point to bring in the Golden Company.


Hmm maybe i am overthinking it.

I guess my point was that Euron would walkout regardless, right? He just happened to use the wight as an excuse and cersie understood that.


Yeah, Euron would have left regardless. He just picked the right time with a great excuse. But he could have stayed there seated and left after the truce. Same result.

Cersei probably wants to keep the Golden Company hush-hush. Even keeping it from Jamie. So maybe Euron leaving after the truce would have raised more suspicion than him acting like a coward.

Definitely overthinking it though.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 4:46 pm    Post subject:

The way they're setting it up with Theon rallying some iron islanders makes me feel like next season we might see a great war at sea with Theon vs Euron (and The Golden Company), with Theon trying to prevent Euron from getting to Westeros w/TGC with the rest of the kingdom vulnerable to attack.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 4:50 pm    Post subject:

Also, I feel like wolves could be a factor, and maybe even come in to help fight the dead. The way they set it up with Arya, makes me feel like they could come out of nowhere into the war (at a critical moment).
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 4:51 pm    Post subject:

leor_77 wrote:
The way they're setting it up with Theon rallying some iron islanders makes me feel like next season we might see a great war at sea with Theon vs Euron (and The Golden Company), with Theon trying to prevent Euron from getting to Westeros w/TGC with the rest of the kingdom vulnerable to attack.


With what ships though? Didn't Dany and friends lose most of their ships?
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 7:23 pm    Post subject:

leor_77 wrote:
Also, I feel like wolves could be a factor, and maybe even come in to help fight the dead. The way they set it up with Arya, makes me feel like they could come out of nowhere into the war (at a critical moment).


I'm ready for all the complaints when that happens. The fans don't like characters getting saved if episode 6 is any indication.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 7:24 pm    Post subject:

PRLakeShow wrote:
leor_77 wrote:
The way they're setting it up with Theon rallying some iron islanders makes me feel like next season we might see a great war at sea with Theon vs Euron (and The Golden Company), with Theon trying to prevent Euron from getting to Westeros w/TGC with the rest of the kingdom vulnerable to attack.


With what ships though? Didn't Dany and friends lose most of their ships?

They never really explained what happened. IIRC last time we saw Dany's ships was after the Unsullied took Casterly Rock and Euron snuck up with the Iron fleet
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 7:27 pm    Post subject:

PRLakeShow wrote:
leor_77 wrote:
The way they're setting it up with Theon rallying some iron islanders makes me feel like next season we might see a great war at sea with Theon vs Euron (and The Golden Company), with Theon trying to prevent Euron from getting to Westeros w/TGC with the rest of the kingdom vulnerable to attack.


With what ships though? Didn't Dany and friends lose most of their ships?


Well those were Dany and Yara's ships. Maybe the Starks have some? Or possibly Jaime has some and he tells them her plan when he arrives at Winterfell(doubtful).

Or maybe there are some back at the Iron Islands that they can steal?
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 8:09 pm    Post subject:

loslakersss wrote:
PRLakeShow wrote:
leor_77 wrote:
The way they're setting it up with Theon rallying some iron islanders makes me feel like next season we might see a great war at sea with Theon vs Euron (and The Golden Company), with Theon trying to prevent Euron from getting to Westeros w/TGC with the rest of the kingdom vulnerable to attack.


With what ships though? Didn't Dany and friends lose most of their ships?


Well those were Dany and Yara's ships. Maybe the Starks have some? Or possibly Jaime has some and he tells them her plan when he arrives at Winterfell(doubtful).

Or maybe there are some back at the Iron Islands that they can steal?


Maybe they don't need to steal them. I'm guessing people are still living in the Iron Islands right? Not like EVERYONE sailed with Euron. Maybe they can convince whoever is there to turn on Euron, get Yara back and hopefully a couple of ships, and then attack Euron and the Golden Company.
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