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iam Starting Rotation
Joined: 12 Jun 2003 Posts: 816
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Posted: Mon Nov 28, 2005 1:58 pm Post subject: ODOM IS STILL A GOOD PLAYER!!!!!! Just please put him back on the post... |
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...I would still have him be agressive during defensive rebound and if available to take it coast to coast, but otherwise, put him back in the post and run the offense entirely through him or put him on the opposite of Kobe. |
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Laker Lurker Star Player
Joined: 24 Oct 2002 Posts: 7652
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Posted: Mon Nov 28, 2005 2:18 pm Post subject: Re: ODOM IS STILL A GOOD PLAYER!!!!!! Just please put him back on the post... |
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iam wrote: | ...I would still have him be agressive during defensive rebound and if available to take it coast to coast, but otherwise, put him back in the post and run the offense entirely through him or put him on the opposite of Kobe. |
How can Odom guard starting SGs when he can't even guard opposing SFs. Put him back at PF where he can at least earn his paycheck |
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MajicMan Starting Rotation
Joined: 14 Jun 2005 Posts: 165
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Posted: Mon Nov 28, 2005 2:29 pm Post subject: |
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I'm sure Odom is a nice guy, maybe too nice. He just does not have the competitiveness and tenacity to live up to his capabilities. Lamar is not mentally strong and it shows. The experiment failed and we really will never go anywhere as long as Lamar is the second option. He is simply not contributing enough and probably never will.
Last edited by MajicMan on Mon Nov 28, 2005 2:33 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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2Cleva Star Player
Joined: 17 Jun 2001 Posts: 9195
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Posted: Mon Nov 28, 2005 2:31 pm Post subject: |
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Odom at the 4 makes the interior defense weak. We see the difference already in a Brown/Mihm combo than what LA had with Odom/Mihm last year.
No, Odom at the 4 may get a few more points out of him but he'll give up just as many on the other end. |
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gastr Sixth Man
Joined: 23 Jun 2005 Posts: 82
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Posted: Mon Nov 28, 2005 2:37 pm Post subject: |
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One problem: Odom doesn't like the post. |
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Laker Lurker Star Player
Joined: 24 Oct 2002 Posts: 7652
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Posted: Mon Nov 28, 2005 2:40 pm Post subject: |
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II Cleva wrote: | Odom at the 4 makes the interior defense weak. We see the difference already in a Brown/Mihm combo than what LA had with Odom/Mihm last year.
No, Odom at the 4 may get a few more points out of him but he'll give up just as many on the other end. |
Defensively, I don't think Odom at PF is worse than Odom at SF He got torched by Rashad Lwiis and earlier got torched by Marion. Pick your poison- getting torched woith Odom in the paint or getting torched with odom at the periimeter. I havej't cheched by it seems to me that Odom gives up more points at SF than he gives up at PF. |
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bounty Star Player
Joined: 15 Aug 2005 Posts: 3946
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Posted: Mon Nov 28, 2005 2:46 pm Post subject: |
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You guys/gals are amazing. obviously life is about problem solving, but you must understand. LO IS NOT THAT GOOD. Period. All I heard how last year is what out of position, now you want him back. All I heard is how playing initiator he will excel, yet he aint. Now what? We are going around in circles for a guy who has never done anything. he cant score no matter where you put him. His D is Avg. at best no matter what position he is guarding. he has never played with aggression, he has never been a thinker on the court. THIS WILL NOT CHANGE. H is a waste of time. PJ can get through to players that want to learn ie:walton. OR Players that challenge themself ie :Kobe, MJ, Rod. he does not get through to lazy minded guys. He is what he is. These downfalls are pretty much uncoachable without help from the FREAKEN PLAYER _________________ Lakers Tickets |
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LakerLogic Franchise Player
Joined: 27 Mar 2005 Posts: 17886
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Posted: Mon Nov 28, 2005 2:51 pm Post subject: |
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He was never a good one to begin with. |
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the_natural05 Starting Rotation
Joined: 18 Oct 2005 Posts: 435
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Posted: Mon Nov 28, 2005 2:56 pm Post subject: |
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Of course. Everybody knows he SHOULD be playing down low with a reasonably polished back to the basket game. |
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iam Starting Rotation
Joined: 12 Jun 2003 Posts: 816
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Posted: Mon Nov 28, 2005 2:58 pm Post subject: |
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He doesn't have to be a PF to play in the post. EVERYTHING remain the same. Just the offensive philosophy will have to change. He no longer plays the role of an initiator. Much like what Tex suggested.
He'll be posting up SFs all day long and defensively I don't think he's that much of a liability.
LO feels more comfortable out there driblling around but if we want him to avg 20+ pts, then he needs to do it around the basket, not taking 3s or shooting jumpers. |
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LakerLogic Franchise Player
Joined: 27 Mar 2005 Posts: 17886
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Posted: Mon Nov 28, 2005 3:00 pm Post subject: |
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^He will never average 20 pts. He has no offensive game other than dribbling out the shot clock and chucking 3-pointers. No jumper, no creativity, and no offensive awareness. |
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iam Starting Rotation
Joined: 12 Jun 2003 Posts: 816
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Posted: Mon Nov 28, 2005 3:12 pm Post subject: |
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c'mon LakerLogic. His offensive post game is not bad. |
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iam Starting Rotation
Joined: 12 Jun 2003 Posts: 816
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Posted: Mon Nov 28, 2005 3:12 pm Post subject: |
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He doesn't have to be a PF to play in the post. EVERYTHING remain the same. Just the offensive philosophy will have to change. He no longer plays the role of an initiator. Much like what Tex suggested.
He'll be posting up SFs all day long and defensively I don't think he's that much of a liability.
LO feels more comfortable out there driblling around but if we want him to avg 20+ pts, then he needs to do it around the basket, not taking 3s or shooting jumpers. |
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GameCock-MD Star Player
Joined: 14 Dec 2004 Posts: 4498
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Posted: Mon Nov 28, 2005 3:15 pm Post subject: |
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bounty wrote: | You guys/gals are amazing. obviously life is about problem solving, but you must understand. LO IS NOT THAT GOOD. Period. All I heard how last year is what out of position, now you want him back. All I heard is how playing initiator he will excel, yet he aint. Now what? We are going around in circles for a guy who has never done anything. he cant score no matter where you put him. His D is Avg. at best no matter what position he is guarding. he has never played with aggression, he has never been a thinker on the court. THIS WILL NOT CHANGE. H is a waste of time. PJ can get through to players that want to learn ie:walton. OR Players that challenge themself ie :Kobe, MJ, Rod. he does not get through to lazy minded guys. He is what he is. These downfalls are pretty much uncoachable without help from the FREAKEN PLAYER |
Last year: "LO needs to go back to SF - top 5 SF"...
This year: "LO needs to go back to the post - run the offense thru him"...
It's all the same...apologies, apologies...Phil/offense/Kobe/position...everybody is at fault except LAMAR ODOM!
It's depressing... _________________ Build around team players, not ISO players. |
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ocho Retired Number
Joined: 24 May 2005 Posts: 53788
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Posted: Mon Nov 28, 2005 3:15 pm Post subject: |
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yeah you are right. he was just AWESOME last year at the 4. just awesome. dominated games. we all were in agreement last year that the 4 was the place for him. we were all upset when they decided to put him back at the 3 this year. what were they thinking? _________________ 14-5-3-12 |
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Shapecity Starting Rotation
Joined: 13 Apr 2005 Posts: 527
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Posted: Mon Nov 28, 2005 3:34 pm Post subject: |
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Any thoughts about bringing Odom off the bench?
I think the 6th man is under used in the league already. Let him watch Luke initiate the offense and then sub Odom in to punish the second unit of the opposing teams. With his versatility he could sub in at SF or PF depending on match ups or foul trouble.
Let the Toni Kukoc comparisons begin.
Last edited by Shapecity on Mon Nov 28, 2005 3:34 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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iam Starting Rotation
Joined: 12 Jun 2003 Posts: 816
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Posted: Mon Nov 28, 2005 3:34 pm Post subject: |
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MAN... are you guys reading what im saying???????
Just because he's playing primarily the post position DOES NOT MEAN he plays the Power Forward. He still guarding the opponent's 3.
Just take him off from the primary ball handler position and let the offense go through his hand. I trust his passing & decision making skills.
Listen, I'm disappointed in him just as much as the next guy. But what I'm recommending has never been done and it's something that Tex Winter suggested. |
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Supa Star Player
Joined: 08 Dec 2004 Posts: 2210
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Posted: Mon Nov 28, 2005 4:31 pm Post subject: |
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Lamar just isn't that skilled offensively. When people say he's talented, they're not talking about his offensive game. He has like one move in the post and can only really score effectively blowing by his man for the layup. Unfortunately lot of the time he'll throw up a wild attempt that has little chance of going in. He probably has one of the weakest jumpshots in the NBA among perimeter players. Definately not a spot up shooter. More of a shooter off the dribble who needs to get in rhythm which is not good unless he's gonna be dominating the ball.
Unfortunately Lamar is just not a good second option to Kobe. Lamar actually can be effective, but only it's mostly when he dominates the ball and is the focus of the offense. We have seen him carry the team with Kobe out of the lineup. But he's rarely able to be that same player when Kobe's in the lineup. So unless Kobe's gonna defer to Lamar and play off him or something, it's probably not gonna work. |
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sodapoppenski Star Player
Joined: 24 Apr 2005 Posts: 7364 Location: Washington, DC
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Posted: Mon Nov 28, 2005 4:54 pm Post subject: Re: ODOM IS STILL A GOOD PLAYER!!!!!! Just please put him back on the post... |
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Laker Lurker wrote: | iam wrote: | ...I would still have him be agressive during defensive rebound and if available to take it coast to coast, but otherwise, put him back in the post and run the offense entirely through him or put him on the opposite of Kobe. |
How can Odom guard starting SGs when he can't even guard opposing SFs. Put him back at PF where he can at least earn his paycheck |
Couldn't agree more with this sentiment - although I do wanna mention that sliding Kobe back to his (natural) SG position and using Odom at (his natural position) at SF could also work.
The point is, whether Odom is moved back to SF or PF, either way we can (and should) get him into the post on offense.
Kobe can post up, and that's to his credit especially as a guard. But Kobe can also earn his points elsewhere, so considering Odom can't seem to do that - put Odom the only place he's a proven scorer, down low. |
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flashakadrano Star Player
Joined: 27 Jun 2005 Posts: 1028
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Posted: Mon Nov 28, 2005 5:32 pm Post subject: |
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he needs to practice his layups. or just dunking IT man!! |
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RG73 Franchise Player
Joined: 14 Jul 2001 Posts: 11508
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Posted: Mon Nov 28, 2005 6:00 pm Post subject: |
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iam wrote: | He'll be posting up SFs all day long and defensively I don't think he's that much of a liability. |
Unlikely. We've heard this for over a year now. No one is stopping him from dribbling to the low block and operating from there. He doesn't want to post up or he'd post up. Couple that with the fact that he goes up weak whenever he's in the paint anyway and you have a guy that doesn't have the will or ability to thrive in the post--despite what people continue to wish upon him. I thought once that he'd be able to operate in the low post too. He doesn't have enough moves or enough strength to have an impact there. Soft shots do not make a good post player--and I've seen him go up strong on maybe about 3 or 4 plays all season.
And there was something very telling in the Seattle game--I recall at least one sequence where Lamar got backed down by Lewis. If he doesn't have the strength to stop Lewis from backing him down, he isn't going to have the strength to back down a lot of SFs.
Quote: | LO feels more comfortable out there driblling around but if we want him to avg 20+ pts, then he needs to do it around the basket, not taking 3s or shooting jumpers. |
He's never averaged 20+, he never will. It isn't going to happen. Again, no one is forcing him to take the 3s. He could just as easily step in a few feet and take better shots. I mean look at his career FG%. If he stopped taking 3s altogether and took better shots but kept the same number of FGAs, he'd average 20 pts. 2.6 3's per game for his career--he shoots 30% there. It should have been obvious to him 3 or 4 years ago that beyond the arc isn't his game. He's had years to refine his low post game. No more excuses. Lamar isn't ever going to be what we all want him to be, nor what the team needs him to be. |
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fansincemagic Franchise Player
Joined: 23 Jun 2005 Posts: 11051
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Posted: Mon Nov 28, 2005 6:27 pm Post subject: |
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It is a shame the Lakers don't have another 3/4 type player to pair with Odom to create more matchup problems. Maybe someone a bit more physical that can still hit from outside and block a shot once in a while. Eddie Griffin is more of a 4, but a guy like him would create a lot of problems. The same guys get mentioned, but Battier would be a great complement to Odom also. |
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bounty Star Player
Joined: 15 Aug 2005 Posts: 3946
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Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2006 2:36 pm Post subject: |
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You see, its not just from recent games. LO is really not all that. Always excuses or solutions. NADA _________________ Lakers Tickets |
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Sage_10 Star Player
Joined: 24 Dec 2005 Posts: 6668
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Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2006 2:40 pm Post subject: Re: ODOM IS STILL A GOOD PLAYER!!!!!! Just please put him back on the post... |
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iam wrote: | ...I would still have him be agressive during defensive rebound and if available to take it coast to coast, but otherwise, put him back in the post and run the offense entirely through him or put him on the opposite of Kobe. |
I surprised I didn't start a thread like this I along with other fellow LG members have been praying for this. |
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Mike@LG Moderator
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
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Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2006 2:42 pm Post subject: |
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Laker Lurker wrote: | II Cleva wrote: | Odom at the 4 makes the interior defense weak. We see the difference already in a Brown/Mihm combo than what LA had with Odom/Mihm last year.
No, Odom at the 4 may get a few more points out of him but he'll give up just as many on the other end. |
Defensively, I don't think Odom at PF is worse than Odom at SF He got torched by Rashad Lwiis and earlier got torched by Marion. Pick your poison- getting torched woith Odom in the paint or getting torched with odom at the periimeter. I havej't cheched by it seems to me that Odom gives up more points at SF than he gives up at PF. |
I think it's smart that the Lakers would be getting torched by the perimeter, not the paint. _________________ Resident Car Nut.
https://lakersdraft.substack.com/
I am not an economic advisor nor do I advise economic strategies or plans. |
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