Orlando Sentinel Poll: Dwight + Arenas for Pau, LO and Blake ? "Yes" is over 50%.
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venturalakersfan
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PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2011 11:29 am    Post subject:

salvosation wrote:
Gasol and filler for Howard
Odom, Artest and Blake for DWill
Sign a shooting, slashing athletic small foward with MLE
and fill the blanks with vet minimum

our roster
DWill
Kob
MLE
DHoward
Big Drew

that's a squad. You can bring yo momma to play with that team and win it all.


You're high if you think that the only thing we will get back from Orlando would be Howard. Add in some ugliness there, maybe Arenas and Turk. Who can the Lakers keep then?

The Lakers would crash their 2014 plan for Howard, but the baggage would decimate it.
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PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2011 11:43 am    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
LakerLanny wrote:
You know they don't want him in the East. So wouldn't trading for arguably the second best young center in the league (Bynum) while getting him out West where you only see him once a year in your building make sense?



It doesn't make sense to me, it never has. I would think the objective is to make your team as good as you can. Passing on a better deal just to get your guy out of your conference doesn't make sense. Yet you hear that mentioned all the time.


Besides the Gasol trade--and he didn't exactly constitute a superstar--how many trades of all-stars do you see within the conference? And ignoring S&T deals like Lebron to Miami.

KG from W to E. Melo from W to E. Kidd from W to E to W again. Barkley from E to W. Kareem from E to W. Moses Malone from W to E. Wilt W to E to W. Deron from W to E. Elton Brand from E to W to E. Glen Rice from E to W. Shaq from W to E. Dominique from E to W. McGrady from E to W. Rodman E to W to E. I mean I could go on and on.

You can counter with, oh, Pau and Drexler. But more often than not (and by a large margin) when an active all-star player is traded, almost invariably they get shipped to the opposite conference. It gets mentioned all the time since that is what actually happens.
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venturalakersfan
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PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2011 11:47 am    Post subject:

I never said it doesn't happen, it just doesn't make any sense to me. If I were an owner and found out that my GM passed up a trade that would make my team better just because the trade partner was in the same conference, I would fire him. Loser's attitude.
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wolfpaclaker
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PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2011 4:50 am    Post subject:

My question is this. What makes people think that Orlando view Bynum as the 2nd best Center in the NBA? While the talent is there, the production is not. I certainly agree for 40 games a year he is the 2nd best Center.

In actual production you have gotten 2nd best Center play in

40 games 07-08
30 games 08-09
35 games 09-10
25 games + 10 playoff games 10-11

What about the rest? they can't make an investment like that thinking Bynum will be the 2nd best C in the NBA as there aren't enough games matching that production. Unlike in LA there isn't a Pau to cover up for him and be the 2nd best C when Bynum is out or not playing up to those 2nd best Center standards.

If you swap Bynum in any of those years (07 to now) for Howard, Bynum puts up 20/10 but plays so little 2nd best Center games the Magic fail to make the playoffs probably in most of those years. Don't be foolish, the Magic do not view Bynum as a guy that can carry their team to the playoffs. If there's a guy who actually could give you 19/10 for 70-80 games a year, it's Pau Gasol (pre-April this year). If anything a deal that sends out Gasol and Odom to them helps them maintain a playoff spot if not improve them at a weak area (PF). This is why some Magic fans want that deal.


Last edited by wolfpaclaker on Sun May 22, 2011 5:11 am; edited 1 time in total
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wolfpaclaker
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PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2011 5:05 am    Post subject:

Trading Howard for a package centered around Bynum would be the equivalent of trading Kobe Bryant in his prime for the current Brandon Roy. A player with a lot of talent in Roy, who arguably could be one of the best 2 guards in the league. However due to injuries he has not been able to play at that level consistently. And unlike Roy, it would have been proven 4 years straight (from 07 to 11). So I'm a bit shocked at how little people expect Howard to go for. Especially since unlike Melo he hasn't asked for a trade or told them he's not staying. Even Melo went for 4 or 5 players on the Knicks. Howard thus far hasn't said anything other than that he will decide what to do when he is actually a FA.

The other thing is capspace. If we could present a scenario where the Magic have capspace post-Howard trade they may be interested. That would require the Magic ridding themselves of Howard and Turk's contract as well as Arenas. If they can do something like that with Bynum, Odom and other last year's going out ... I can see them be interested.

Magic would deal for Bynum center package (+ Odom) IMO if and only if they were in position to gain capspace post-trade by 2012. Which means LA has to absorb the contracts of Turk and Arenas. One more X factor is the amnesty, if there is an amnesty that allows you to just cut a player and no longer count his salary against the cap, that's another big thing in favor of the Lakers. If that could happen, Magic can amnesty Arenas, then trade Howard + Turk to LA for Bynum + Odom + picks. This allows the Lakers to basically relieve the Magic of their worst contracts and they can probably select high lottery in 2012 and look to the FA class to sign some free agents. Look at what Memphis did with Pau Gasol's trade. Something like that. However again, that only happens once we are sure that the Magic can rid themselves of Arenas + Turk too.
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salvosation
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PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2011 8:22 am    Post subject:

babyskyhook wrote:
salvosation wrote:
babyskyhook wrote:
salvosation wrote:
Gasol and filler for Howard
Odom, Artest and Blake for DWill
Sign a shooting, slashing athletic small foward with MLE
and fill the blanks with vet minimum

our roster
DWill
Kob
MLE
DHoward
Big Drew

that's a squad. You can bring yo momma to play with that team and win it all.



Too bad neither of those deals will happen. Neither gives the other team enough to get a deal done.

Man please! Folks were calling Pau the first or at worse second best big man at the beginning of the season. Still saying he is the most skilled. Plus Orlando is getting more than just a little something instead of nothing for D12. You just don't want to see rag doll leave. Artest and Odom are NYers who can bring people in to watch once they move to Brooklyn. Don't sleep, these players have value.



Orlando would much rather get Bynum than Pau in all likelihood. Especially if fillers are the only other thing involved (besides taking back Arenas' deal).

No way NJ trades DWIll for LO and Ron. Not happening.

It is not about what they want it is about what they can det. Pau is more than enough to get a deal done and no one is offering anything close to better than that!
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salvosation
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PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2011 8:27 am    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
LakerLanny wrote:
You know they don't want him in the East. So wouldn't trading for arguably the second best young center in the league (Bynum) while getting him out West where you only see him once a year in your building make sense?



It doesn't make sense to me, it never has. I would think the objective is to make your team as good as you can. Passing on a better deal just to get your guy out of your conference doesn't make sense. Yet you hear that mentioned all the time.

What better deal you are speaking of?
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dcarter4kobe
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PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2011 10:33 am    Post subject:

wolfpaclaker wrote:
Trading Howard for a package centered around Bynum would be the equivalent of trading Kobe Bryant in his prime for the current Brandon Roy. A player with a lot of talent in Roy, who arguably could be one of the best 2 guards in the league. However due to injuries he has not been able to play at that level consistently. And unlike Roy, it would have been proven 4 years straight (from 07 to 11). So I'm a bit shocked at how little people expect Howard to go for. Especially since unlike Melo he hasn't asked for a trade or told them he's not staying. Even Melo went for 4 or 5 players on the Knicks. Howard thus far hasn't said anything other than that he will decide what to do when he is actually a FA.

The other thing is capspace. If we could present a scenario where the Magic have capspace post-Howard trade they may be interested. That would require the Magic ridding themselves of Howard and Turk's contract as well as Arenas. If they can do something like that with Bynum, Odom and other last year's going out ... I can see them be interested.

Magic would deal for Bynum center package (+ Odom) IMO if and only if they were in position to gain capspace post-trade by 2012. Which means LA has to absorb the contracts of Turk and Arenas. One more X factor is the amnesty, if there is an amnesty that allows you to just cut a player and no longer count his salary against the cap, that's another big thing in favor of the Lakers. If that could happen, Magic can amnesty Arenas, then trade Howard + Turk to LA for Bynum + Odom + picks. This allows the Lakers to basically relieve the Magic of their worst contracts and they can probably select high lottery in 2012 and look to the FA class to sign some free agents. Look at what Memphis did with Pau Gasol's trade. Something like that. However again, that only happens once we are sure that the Magic can rid themselves of Arenas + Turk too.

Thing is the Magic would probably want to amnesty Hedo instead and deal Arenas since it would save them about 30m if its Arenas going out in the deal instead

Dwight/Arenas for Drew/Odom/Filler

If im the Lakers I try to get Nelson in the deal..Might have to take on Q.Richardson and C.Duhon also with our Trade X so we could have a package of Gasol/Nelson to shop for a elite PG if or when Chris Paul or a Deron Williams become available
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venturalakersfan
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PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2011 11:25 am    Post subject:

salvosation wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
LakerLanny wrote:
You know they don't want him in the East. So wouldn't trading for arguably the second best young center in the league (Bynum) while getting him out West where you only see him once a year in your building make sense?



It doesn't make sense to me, it never has. I would think the objective is to make your team as good as you can. Passing on a better deal just to get your guy out of your conference doesn't make sense. Yet you hear that mentioned all the time.

What better deal you are speaking of?


I was speaking hypothetically, but in this context, NJ can offer Orlando a better deal.
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