Berger on the CBA Talks (The Big Lockout Thread) (Farewell to the Lockout and the Thread, p. 259)
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Lowest Merion
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 9:50 am    Post subject:

Gabe Feldman's latest on the lockout:

http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-triangle/post/_/id/11258/the-nuclear-winter-is-over-the-new-cba-and-how-the-lawyers-saved-the-day-sort-of
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venturalakersfan
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 5:40 pm    Post subject:

JUST-MING wrote:

Wonder whether the agents blacklisted Indiana, Atlanta, Charlotte, Denver, Memphis, Milwaukee, Minnesota, Philadelphia, Portland, Sacramento, Cleveland and Phoenix because of their hardline stance. I know that Wilson Chandler, JR Smith and Kenyon Martin will be in China, rather than in Denver, this season. (Nene may leave via FA.)


If they have the players should fire them. They are paying for the agents to represent them, not for the agents to make a political stance.
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Luke
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2011 11:06 am    Post subject:

Berger :

Quote:
While the deal is expected to pass overwhelmingly, a potential sideshow could emerge regarding the future of NBPA executive director Billy Hunter. As CBSSports.com reported Wednesday, there is an insurgency being led by a handful of agents who are attempting to have their clients' votes approving the new CBA contingent on Hunter agreeing to return as head of the union only on an interim basis. As far as player involvement, the movement is being led by Celtics stars Paul Pierce and Kevin Garnett, multiple sources told CBSSports.com.

UPDATE: A small but vocal group of players is trying to have the executive community replaced, as well, two people with knowledge of the situation said.



http://ken-berger.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/11838893/33631914?source=rss_blogs_NBA
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activeverb
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2011 1:08 pm    Post subject:

RG73 wrote:
The thing is, film stars are kind of a creation of luck and the film industry. Every A-list star in the world could disappear tomorrow and the studios could replace everyone of them overnight..


Sure, you could always find actors. But that doesn't mean the actors you found would be able to attract financing, other elements, or enable the films to get good bookings around the world.
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activeverb
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2011 1:19 pm    Post subject:

JUST-MING wrote:

Wonder whether the agents blacklisted Indiana, Atlanta, Charlotte, Denver, Memphis, Milwaukee, Minnesota, Philadelphia, Portland, Sacramento, Cleveland and Phoenix because of their hardline stance. I know that Wilson Chandler, JR Smith and Kenyon Martin will be in China, rather than in Denver, this season. (Nene may leave via FA.)


Do you really think agents would blacklist 40% of the potential employers for the clients? They would be cutting their own throats.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2011 7:01 am    Post subject:

Updates from Stein:

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/7311353/nba-free-agency-courting-start-monday-sources-say]

Coaches can start talking to players as of this morning:

Quote:
NBA team executives and coaches will be allowed to start talking to players around the league starting Monday at 10 a.m. ET, according to sources familiar with the league's decision.

Teams were notified Saturday that contact with players -- and free agents -- will be allowed Monday as the scheduled opening of NBA training camps approaches Dec. 9.

Sources say the league, though, is still telling teams the restrictions in place since Wednesday -- which stipulate that no oral or written agreements can be struck with free agents -- remain in place because the lockout is still technically in effect.

Sources say coaches likewise can't supervise on-court workouts before camp begins Friday but teams are allowed to give physical exams to free agents.


Also - there is a definitive timetable for putting an official end to this lockout by Friday:

Quote:
NBA commissioner David Stern and National Basketball Players Association executive director Billy Hunter have been negotiating the remaining fine points of the league's tentative labor for the past two days and are scheduled to resume Monday after taking Sunday off.

The objective, sources said, is to have a completed deal ready to present to the executive negotiating committees for both sides Wednesday. The players and owners have scheduled separate electronic votes Thursday, keeping the league on course for Friday's targeted start of training camp and free agency.
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Aeneas Hunter
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2011 7:04 am    Post subject:

Berger previews the players' vote on Thursday:

http://ken-berger.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/11838893/33631914
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LarryCoon
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2011 7:22 am    Post subject:

The fact that Stern & Hunter took Sunday off should be viewed as a good thing. They wouldn't have taken the day off if they hadn't made significant progress.

I heard they hit Coney Island together.
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Aeneas Hunter
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2011 8:01 am    Post subject:

I don't know that Stern and Hunter are integral to the process at this point. Unless one side or the other decides to make a big deal of the B list issues, the major task is converting term sheets into contracts. While there are some potentially worrisome items on the B list, it's probably too late for the league to press for another round of concessions. At this point, neither side has any leverage.
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venturalakersfan
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2011 8:19 am    Post subject:

At this point if they cannot reach a decision on the B issues in time for camps to open on Friday, the media and fan hit would be worse than the lockout was. If that happens I feel like I would just walk away.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2011 8:23 am    Post subject:

That's why I say that neither side has any leverage.
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Mike D
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2011 8:24 am    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
At this point if they cannot reach a decision on the B issues in time for camps to open on Friday, the media and fan hit would be worse than the lockout was. If that happens I feel like I would just walk away.


Alas, silver lining.
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angrypuppy
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2011 9:00 am    Post subject:

LarryCoon wrote:
The fact that Stern & Hunter took Sunday off should be viewed as a good thing. They wouldn't have taken the day off if they hadn't made significant progress.

I heard they hit Coney Island together.




Had they hit Fire Island together we'd know they had a meeting of the minds.
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Lakersneuron
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2011 3:15 pm    Post subject:

Mike D wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
At this point if they cannot reach a decision on the B issues in time for camps to open on Friday, the media and fan hit would be worse than the lockout was. If that happens I feel like I would just walk away.


Alas, silver lining.


haha
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JerryMagicKobe
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2011 7:20 pm    Post subject:

LarryCoon wrote:
The fact that Stern & Hunter took Sunday off should be viewed as a good thing. They wouldn't have taken the day off if they hadn't made significant progress.

I heard they hit Coney Island together.

The good vibes ended abruptly when Billy boarded the Cyclone despite David being stopped short by the height requirement.
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Lowest Merion
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2011 8:33 pm    Post subject:

Amick:
Quote:
In letter from @TheNBPA head Billy Hunter obtained by SI.com, he tells players a 24-hour window to vote on CBA will begin Wed. at 1 pm EST

Correction on timing: Voting open for "more than 24 hours," until 4 pm EST on Thursday.

Should have mentioned too. Electronic voting.
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Aeneas Hunter
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2011 6:53 am    Post subject:

Amick's full article:

Quote:
After the tentative deal between owners and players was reached on Nov. 26, the negotiation of the so-called "B-list" issues was the most daunting obstacle that remained. Yet as Hunter indicated in his letter, it seems clear the deal will be in place in time for a vote.

"Progress on the remaining negotiations has been steady and therefore we will hold a general meeting for all interested players where we will present and explain the terms of the proposed 2011 CBA," he wrote.


http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/sam_amick/12/06/cba.players.vote/index.html?sct=hp_t2_a14&eref=sihp
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Lowest Merion
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2011 11:03 am    Post subject:

Woj:
Quote:
Several significant "B-List" issues still being resolved in talks, including NBA wanting major cut of NBPA licensing deal, sources say.
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Lowest Merion
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2011 11:22 am    Post subject:

Zach Lowe:
Quote:
Details of amnesty provision emerge

Folks are obsessed with the amnesty provision, which is coming into focus now as the players’ union and league work around the clock to finalize the collective bargaining agreement.

Still, the provision will stay alive for the full length of the new collective bargaining agreement. Teams can use it only once, and only for “contracts in place at the inception of the CBA,” according to a summary of the draft agreement.

The idea is simple — cut a player with pay so his salary doesn’t count against the cap or luxury tax — but as I wrote last week, the details are complicated and carry several crucial questions. The two sides have now reached a broad agreement on some of the thorniest questions, according to a source close to the talks. Some bullet points:

• Teams will not be able to use the amnesty provision on a player acquired in a trade. The CBA summary says teams can apply amnesty to a pre-existing contract. It does not say whether teams must already have that contract on their books, or whether that contract must simply exist. There had been hope, for instance, that the Nets could acquire Hedo Turkoglu’s contract in a theoretical Dwight Howard trade and then use the amnesty provision on Turkoglu instead of the less-expensive Travis Outlaw. Turkoglu’s contract is “in place,” in some sense, after all.

But alas: The sides have agreed that teams can use the amnesty provision only on players they have now. That is a bit of a disadvantage for teams such as the Thunder and Grizzlies that have no viable amnesty candidate, though it does provide a form of long-term insurance should any of their players become unproductive down the road.

• The salary of any player waived via the amnesty clause will continue to count toward the salary floor. This could be of major interest to a team such as the Wizards, who would fall so far under the salary floor (about $49 million per team) by using amnesty on Rashard Lewis as to make the provision almost unworkable for them this season. But if Lewis’ $20.6 million salary continues to count toward that floor — and not against the cap — even after amnesty, the provision is more useful in the short term. Regardless, the Wizards indicated last week that they will not use the amnesty clause on Lewis this season. That makes some sense, considering this center-heavy free-agent class doesn’t have much to offer a team trying to develop its own big man (JaVale McGee).

• Teams will not be able to use the new “stretch” provision on players they acquire via the amnesty process. The stretch provision will allow teams to waive a player and stretch the annual cap hit well into the future. For instance: If you release a player with two years and $20 million left on his deal, you could stretch the cap hit over five seasons — twice the number of years left on his contract, plus one. The goal is to soften the short-term impact on cap flexibility so that teams will be more willing to waive players they don’t want.

The catch: Teams can use the provision only on “new” contracts, or deals that don’t yet exist. But what of amnesty-related contracts? If a team bids on Outlaw and “wins” him, is that a new contract the team can “stretch” later should Outlaw continue to struggle? Or is it an “old” one, and thus not eligible to be stretched because it is linked to a pre-existing deal?

The answer is: The team will not be able to use the “stretch” provision on such a player.

• Finally: If a team bids on a player in the amnesty waiver process, it is bidding on the full length of his contract, not just the first season. In the event the Blazers change course and use amnesty on Roy, that would mean any team that bids, say, $4 million on the guard will be bidding to pay him at least that amount in each of the four remaining seasons on his deal.

This is where we stand at the moment, according to a source close to the process. Things could change in theory, but with players scheduled to begin voting on the CBA on Wednesday afternoon, that seems unlikely.


http://nba-point-forward.si.com/2011/12/06/details-of-amnesty-provision-emerge/
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Aeneas Hunter
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2011 12:06 pm    Post subject:

Lowest Merion wrote:
Woj:
Quote:
Several significant "B-List" issues still being resolved in talks, including NBA wanting major cut of NBPA licensing deal, sources say.


Ugh. I guess Stern is smart enough to give Billy Hunter one last change to show his spinelessness.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2011 2:48 pm    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
Lowest Merion wrote:
Woj:
Quote:
Several significant "B-List" issues still being resolved in talks, including NBA wanting major cut of NBPA licensing deal, sources say.


Ugh. I guess Stern is smart enough to give Billy Hunter one last change to show his spinelessness.

The NBA not even using vaseline
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2011 5:20 pm    Post subject:

Letter from David Stern to the fans:

http://www.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/22748484/33734453
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2011 6:11 pm    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
Letter from David Stern to the fans:

http://www.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/22748484/33734453


And here is my letter to David Stern:

Dear David Stern,

Retire.

Sincerely,

Me.
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mhan00
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2011 9:54 pm    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
Lowest Merion wrote:
Woj:
Quote:
Several significant "B-List" issues still being resolved in talks, including NBA wanting major cut of NBPA licensing deal, sources say.


Ugh. I guess Stern is smart enough to give Billy Hunter one last change to show his spinelessness.


Wow. I can't imagine the players caving on that, but given what's already happened, who knows?
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TooMuchMajicBuss
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2011 6:08 am    Post subject:

Lowest Merion wrote:
Amick:
Quote:
In letter from @TheNBPA head Billy Hunter obtained by SI.com, he tells players a 24-hour window to vote on CBA will begin Wed. at 1 pm EST

Correction on timing: Voting open for "more than 24 hours," until 4 pm EST on Thursday.

Should have mentioned too. Electronic voting.



So.... it's Wednesday. For better or worse, the CBA voting window starts in a bit less than 4 hours.

Tweet from Windhorst/ESPN:

Quote:
NBA teams told this morning nearly all "B-list" issues in CBA have been agreed to. But teams still have very few details about them.


Hopefully no drama today or tomorrow when the polls close.
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